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The Primeval Thaig Mystery


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#476
MichaelFinnegan

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

And so it all comes back to rotten Twinkies. Image IPB

Potentially, we have a thaig of (potentially) several thaigs that may have been the source and supplier of large amounts of lyrium for the invasion of a mythical city/possible prison/lofty piece of real estate. We have a staff that is made of this lyrium and now in Hawke's possession (with the purchase and download of a DLC), and we have what looks to be a piece of another staff (the idol...which does have a broken off bit at the end that seems to be from a staff) - which in turn has some sort of song or sentient properties.

So to add to the chips thrown out on the table, what about this - what if there are at least 5 primeval thaigs, and each has a staff or some similar weapon/tool made of the red lyrium, and these tools were used in the grand blood-letting ritual that opened the portal to Rotten Twinkie City? (Although, I could see the possibility of the Primeval Thaig's idol bit as not being used for the invasion, as something got trapped within in, so it was locked up and abandoned because bad, vile things dwelled within.)

I'm trying to keep an open mind about all of these theories we're bouncing back and forth, but I keep seeing in my twisted brain an image of 5 or more magisters standing at various points in Thedas, concentrating their energies into the center of their pentagram-esque circle (pentagram for the 5, not necessarily for any RL demonic correlation). And from the center of these focused energies, from the blood of 1000's of slaves and mass amounts of lyrium, a door opens. And maybe a different group of (5) magisters went in. That's what comes up in my imagination, but we all know I have way too much fromage on the brain, so I can't be trusted. Image IPB

Oh, okay. A DLC. And mage item pack 2, perhaps? But this does not make mention of the DLC. Hmm. I don't remember getting this staff after defeating the ancient rock wraith.

I don't think it is wild at all. What you say does make sense. I mean why was only one staff left behind? So perhaps just one magister was involved in this case. And we know that there may have more than one to make the attempt to enter the Golden City. Although, I'm not sure if the number was exactly 5. But still, this particular thaig seems to fit into the explanation.

Still not sure where exactly all those dwarves of Valdasine went. If they simply vanished from there, did they materialize somewhere else? Did they become the first darkspawn or even ghouls maybe? And what if the reason the other dwarves sealed off that staff in the Valdasine thaig was because they noticed something odd about it as well, as in maybe the case with the idol of Primeval Thaig?

And I think your observation that the Primeval Thaig idol being a broken off part of a "lyrium" staff may be a good point. The idol does look a bit weird at the bottom, with those "veins" dangling about, as if it was broken off from something. We cannot be entirely sure, of course, but it is a good theory in my opinion.

And let's go back for a bit to Kirkwall - to see your other point and link it again to something else. Doesn't the Enigma of Kirkwall codex hint at centuries of blood letting, a thousand slaves killed every year?:
"Access has not been easy, and I fear my disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down. The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?"

Kirkwall was established sometime after Arlathan was sacked and before the magisters attempted to invade the Golden City, according to this timeline. With the sacking of Arlathan and enslaving the elves, the imperium had a ready supply of elven slaves. Now let's look at what I quoted above from the codex: "the sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down." Down? To whither I wonder?

Time to get a bit creative. What if all that blood was channeled down, deep down? To some of those dwarven thaigs, where raw and pure lyrium (the blue variety) is actually found? And that is the reason why all the lyrium there seems to have turned "red." It was perhaps an amalgamation of blood and lyrium that finally gave these magisters what they needed. Enough power to breach the barriers that protected the Golden City itself. It may not have been power, per se, but something else that perhaps needed to be overcome, and this combination of blood and lyrium gave them the capability, finally.

NOTE: I noticed a discrepancy in one date, though. The Enigma of Kirkwall mentions that 203 slaves went missing in the 312th year of the Imperium. This makes the year actually 883 Ancient since the Imperium was founded in 1195 Ancient. Kirkwall was founded in 620 Ancient, so this appears to be a mistake, if it was meant to be linked with Kirkwall at all.

EDIT: Formatting...

Modifié par MichaelFinnegan, 31 août 2011 - 07:56 .


#477
whykikyouwhy

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MichaelFinnegan wrote...
Oh, okay. A DLC. And mage item pack 2, perhaps? But this does not make mention of the DLC. Hmm. I don't remember getting this staff after defeating the ancient rock wraith.

I don't think it is wild at all. What you say does make sense. I mean why was only one staff left behind? So perhaps just one magister was involved in this case. And we know that there may have more than one to make the attempt to enter the Golden City. Although, I'm not sure if the number was exactly 5. But still, this particular thaig seems to fit into the explanation.

Still not sure where exactly all those dwarves of Valdasine went. If they simply vanished from there, did they materialize somewhere else? Did they become the first darkspawn or even ghouls maybe? And what if the reason the other dwarves sealed off that staff in the Valdasine thaig was because they noticed something odd about it as well, as in maybe the case with the idol of Primeval Thaig?

And I think your observation that the Primeval Thaig idol being a broken off part of a "lyrium" staff may be a good point. The idol does look a bit weird at the bottom, with those "veins" dangling about, as if it was broken off from something. We cannot be entirely sure, of course, but it is a good theory in my opinion.

And let's go back for a bit to Kirkwall - to see your other point and link it again to something else. Doesn't the Enigma of Kirkwall codex hint at centuries of blood letting, a thousand slaves killed every year?:
"Access has not been easy, and I fear my disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down. The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?"

Kirkwall was established sometime after Arlathan was sacked and before the magisters attempted to invade the Golden City, according to this timeline. With the sacking of Arlathan and enslaving the elves, the imperium had a ready supply of elven slaves. Now let's look at what I quoted above from the codex: "the sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down." Down? To whither I wonder?

Time to get a bit creative. What if all that blood was channeled down, deep down? To some of those dwarven thaigs, where raw and pure lyrium (the blue variety) is actually found? And that is the reason why all the lyrium there seems to have turned "red." It was perhaps an amalgamation of blood and lyrium that finally gave these magisters what they needed. Enough power to breach the barriers that protected the Golden City itself. It may not have been power, per se, but something else that perhaps needed to be overcome, and this combination of blood and lyrium gave them the capability, finally.

NOTE: I noticed a discrepancy in one date, though. The Enigma of Kirkwall mentions that 203 slaves went missing in the 312th year of the Imperium. This makes the year actually 883 Ancient since the Imperium was founded in 1195 Ancient. Kirkwall was founded in 620 Ancient, so this appears to be a mistake, if it was meant to be linked with Kirkwall at all.

EDIT: Formatting...

I think I got the info abouit Valdasine wrong - I thought it was from the DLC because how it was grouped in my jounral (and clearly, I hadn't read the codex entry on it). So apologies for that.

The blood of thousands of slaves would certainly *scar* something (going back to Filament's theories) - the Fade perhaps, the Veil...maybe causing a break in the connection between the dwarves and a spiritual realm. Maybe a piece of the "Stone" was shattered or sheared off. (So many analogous statements here.) And the pain and agony of thousands could certainly leave an imprint of negative emotions somewhere, or on something.

I am inclined to think that the dwarves of Valdasine and the Primeval Thaig lost some of their numbers to whatever environmental or human-made cataclysm occurred - to whatever forces were unleashed in either the breach of the City, or in their experiments, etc. The remainder sealed the thaigs off, and dispersed, perhaps blending into other thaigs (possibly forming alliances with elves, such as in the Cad'halash Thaig), other clans, or maybe they formed the earliest assembly of the Legion of the Dead. Or they pulled something similar to what happened in Kal Sharok.

We keep returning to some common denominators.

#478
MichaelFinnegan

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

I think I got the info abouit Valdasine wrong - I thought it was from the DLC because how it was grouped in my jounral (and clearly, I hadn't read the codex entry on it). So apologies for that.

Oh, no issues at all. I'm actually grateful you posted the whole codex. It is a good find. I'm just miffed now I missed this on my playthrough. Perhaps it was the frustration of having battled the ancient rock wraith the first time (on my only playthrough) without a healer...

The blood of thousands of slaves would certainly *scar* something (going back to Filament's theories) - the Fade perhaps, the Veil...maybe causing a break in the connection between the dwarves and a spiritual realm. Maybe a piece of the "Stone" was shattered or sheared off. (So many analogous statements here.) And the pain and agony of thousands could certainly leave an imprint of negative emotions somewhere, or on something.

I'm still trying to absorb what Filament said. What I mean by this is trying to find some events, part of the story/lore, whatever that would make me think along those lines. I am what you might call an epiricist (not the right word - perhaps driven by evidence is the word) - I find it most difficult to theorycraft without grounding in events. It is a shortcoming, I know.

I'd like to go back to what I said here, elsewhere - I don't remember now. :( There is a similarity between dwarves and the darkspawn, in relation to their connection to the Fade. The connection of both is weak. Was it Rifneno who said it sometime back? That it is perhaps that the dwarves have their souls within their bodies, rather than in the Fade? It makes sense to think of it that way. And the darkspawn are engineered to be the way they are. Their creation process - which I'm now beginning to suspect involves lyrium - ensures this. So even though they do not have spirits, they're strongly connected to the song - through the taint itself apparently.

We should consider the event that made the dwarves the way they are now. Perhaps intentional, perhaps suffering. The Primeval Thaig is the key for this. It hints at some change, most likely of the dwarves, some great suffering in the past.

Coming back on track. The blood of the elves, slaves, and so on. Spilled, and perhaps merged with lyrium. How would that change the lyrium itself? Lyrium is in its pure form, just that - perhaps purity itself. Add blood to that, spilled blood, and what does one get? Corruption of the greatest kind? Unimagined and unseen before? What did that do to that lyrium? And what did it do to the souls of those who were sacrificed? And what it do to those who indulged in such madness? Here it appears to me to lie the key to this mystery.

I am inclined to think that the dwarves of Valdasine and the Primeval Thaig lost some of their numbers to whatever environmental or human-made cataclysm occurred - to whatever forces were unleashed in either the breach of the City, or in their experiments, etc. The remainder sealed the thaigs off, and dispersed, perhaps blending into other thaigs (possibly forming alliances with elves, such as in the Cad'halash Thaig), other clans, or maybe they formed the earliest assembly of the Legion of the Dead. Or they pulled something similar to what happened in Kal Sharok.

Yes, that is true. With both the thaigs we do see some calamity - more obviously with the Primeval Thaig, with those deformed creatures - perhaps aptly named the profanes.

Cad'halash (on whose ruins Cadash Thaig has been built) where escaping Arlathan elves supposedly formed alliances with the dwarves who inhabited it is of a different sort, I think. It is mainly there to highlight two things, I think: the cozy relations of Kal-Sharok dwarves to the Imperium; and the betrayal of the Cad'halash dwarves by their own kind, so as not to mar their relationship with the Imperium. It is both a piece of history for us and a piece of shame for the shaperate, who have not recored that in memory.

We keep returning to some common denominators.

Yes, and the other common denominator we're missing is the Arlathan elves. Now how do they figure into this? And, yes, what about the Eluvians? And OMG, OGB!! :happy: and dear long-lost Morrigan!! :(

#479
roundcrow

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Modifié par roundcrow, 01 septembre 2011 - 08:45 .


#480
Nimrodell

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Ah, you should consider Dark Theurge - Ruadan bound beneath the Vigil's Keep. I just remembered him, all those codex entries where avvars actually went to dwarves and asked for help to bound their shaman Ruadan. Again, we have dwarves involved in soul binding - this time not in stone, metal body or statue - they used a contraption 'strange apparatus' to bind him. And they did it again with blood, blood of Ruadan's own people as stated in codex.

#481
whykikyouwhy

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Nimrodell wrote...

Ah, you should consider Dark Theurge - Ruadan bound beneath the Vigil's Keep. I just remembered him, all those codex entries where avvars actually went to dwarves and asked for help to bound their shaman Ruadan. Again, we have dwarves involved in soul binding - this time not in stone, metal body or statue - they used a contraption 'strange apparatus' to bind him. And they did it again with blood, blood of Ruadan's own people as stated in codex.

Have we touched upoin the Avvars before? (I want to say we have, but I am reluctant to start sifting through old posts on only one cup of coffee)

I'll post the codex that you may be referencing, for further mulling:

…with our warriors, unmatched in skill and strength. And here we settled, in the caves carved by the hand of Korth the Mountain-Father…

Ruadan, shaman of the people, turned from the gods who had ever sheltered him. In his grief, he destroyed the gifts of the Mountain-Father and brought us low.

…and Ruadan pursued her. She fled into the earth and prayed to Korth to preserve her. He sent deliverance. They called themselves the dwarves, and they protected Kaelah.

The darkness drove him to madness but also gave him power. He turned our warriors against us. Kiveal sought out the dwarves, and together they bound Ruadan in this place.

…remember Kiveal. May Ruadan forever be bound here.


More of the same ancient evil that must be bound/man turning from god/sealing away of powers. Funny how that keeps cropping up. Image IPB

#482
EmperorSahlertz

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.... What's with the rotten twinkie?

#483
Urzon

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

Ah, you should consider Dark Theurge - Ruadan bound beneath the Vigil's Keep. I just remembered him, all those codex entries where avvars actually went to dwarves and asked for help to bound their shaman Ruadan. Again, we have dwarves involved in soul binding - this time not in stone, metal body or statue - they used a contraption 'strange apparatus' to bind him. And they did it again with blood, blood of Ruadan's own people as stated in codex.

Have we touched upoin the Avvars before? (I want to say we have, but I am reluctant to start sifting through old posts on only one cup of coffee)

I'll post the codex that you may be referencing, for further mulling:

…with our warriors, unmatched in skill and strength. And here we settled, in the caves carved by the hand of Korth the Mountain-Father…

Ruadan, shaman of the people, turned from the gods who had ever sheltered him. In his grief, he destroyed the gifts of the Mountain-Father and brought us low.

…and Ruadan pursued her. She fled into the earth and prayed to Korth to preserve her. He sent deliverance. They called themselves the dwarves, and they protected Kaelah.

The darkness drove him to madness but also gave him power. He turned our warriors against us. Kiveal sought out the dwarves, and together they bound Ruadan in this place.

…remember Kiveal. May Ruadan forever be bound here.


More of the same ancient evil that must be bound/man turning from god/sealing away of powers. Funny how that keeps cropping up. Image IPB


I'm guessing that the "darkness" that drove him insane and gave him power might be demons. They might have gave him blood magic to use against his people. I'm only assume demons, because i don't remember the avvars having blood magic.

But ya... the dwarves seem to be very good at sealing things...

So the dwarves can't be mages, but they can still use lyrium in rituals to produce magical results. I'm guessing they are using the Dresden defintion of rituals. Them being like magical vending machines. Anyone can use them as long has they put in the right amount of change, and they press the right buttons; they get their magical candy bar!! Image IPB

#484
whykikyouwhy

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

.... What's with the rotten twinkie?

Did I mention the twinkie recently? Or are you asking in general?

If the latter, the Rotten Twinkie is the Golden-Black City. All shiny golden fluffy cake on the outside, promising all sorts of tastiness, and yet all rotten vileness and negative energy on the inside. It paralells the whole Pandora's box theory about the city - the magisters actually unleashed all the evil locked away in the city when they crossed its threshold, etc etc.

Don't even get me started talking about cheese! Image IPB

#485
Nimrodell

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Yes, I was mentioning avvars before, 15th or 16 page of this topic, not sure. But they are relevant for this topic 'cause again, we have dwarves involved in bidning or imprisoning souls. Kiveal actually went and searched for 'em in order to imprison Ruadan - meaning, that it was sort of common knowledge that dwarves possess the power or art of doing it. And in this case - we have 'strange apparatus', similar to one in Brecilian Ruins where we find arcane horror. We already know from dalish start that dwarves were actually trading with those elves. Somehow, they were involved in many bindings - and then remember this Asunder - again dwarves involved, but this time tis elven way of 'imprisoning' - tho it may be just wrong interpretation by shaper Axus on what actually happened there, since the pride demon says that he was hiding that way not 'cause of fear, it was convenience. It may as well be that demon itself did that after killing elves... still, tis very interesting. Bartrand may state whatever he wants, dwarves did change great deal.

#486
Nimrodell

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Erm, just replaying The Witch Hunt and again finding something strange... it could be nothing but still. When Eleni Zinovia (the statue) is telling Finn and Warden about survivors from Arlathan and the lights, when she speaks about Cadash thaig, she literally says this: Their sorrow awakend the Stone (again Stone with capital s)... I keep wondering if the stone written like this is just a metaphor for dwarves or it is entirely something else?

Btw, I remembered one more dwarven imprisonment in stone - a dragon in royal palace of Orzammar.

#487
whykikyouwhy

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Nimrodell wrote...

Erm, just replaying The Witch Hunt and again finding something strange... it could be nothing but still. When Eleni Zinovia (the statue) is telling Finn and Warden about survivors from Arlathan and the lights, when she speaks about Cadash thaig, she literally says this: Their sorrow awakend the Stone (again Stone with capital s)... I keep wondering if the stone written like this is just a metaphor for dwarves or it is entirely something else?

Btw, I remembered one more dwarven imprisonment in stone - a dragon in royal palace of Orzammar.

Sorrow awakening the Stone (or, that which we have not yet truly defined) may be similar to what Filament was theorizing - that some great event took place, some great sacrifice (of say, 1000+ slaves???), some transference of souls for golemes, some blood-letting upon the earth/lyrium. It's the pain that has become etched or imprinted in the primeval thaigs - or the spirit of pain, something sentient that is now either trapped or just an echo of what was.

Malvernis from Legacy may be a key piece to this. I'm going to requote the codex (I know it's on one of these pages):


We called it Malvernis. The Pestilent One. It devoured thaigs, turning our fairest work into a noxious waste. It consumed living warriors, turning their bodies to slime, and when its hunger was not abated, it consumed the bones of our ancestors.
Foulness came from its touch, poison and filth and desecration. It threatened the Stone itself. The Shapers bound it. Chained in lyrium stained with the blood of a hundred warriors. But within the orb, it hungered, it waited.
We carried it here to the wasteland of the surface, where it can threaten nothing of value. The Stone will live. The Stone must live. We have sworn to defend it from the Foul One at any price.

I found the bolded bit interesting. So too, that Malvernis "consumed the bones" of ancestors is noteworthy. And the profane "feasted" upon the gods. We have hazy evidence of great sorrow, we have a codex entry about something threatening the Stone. We have references to feasting and blood. I mean, it all sort of sound like the Taint being born, though it's possible that these events and the eventual onslaught of the taint and the blights are not directly related.

Ah, more to mull over. Image IPB

#488
Macropodmum

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I think maybe the talk of the stone being alive might be metaphorically speaking, the same as referring to mother earth as being a living entity and a she...

#489
Todd23

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Macropodmum wrote...

I think maybe the talk of the stone being alive might be metaphorically speaking, the same as referring to mother earth as being a living entity and a she...

Then how would you explain all the spirits in the deep roads?  To me that's The Stone's memory.  Andrastians have said dwarves are not of the maker, and the statue in the the tower reffered to them as the stone's children.

#490
Macropodmum

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Todd23 wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

I think maybe the talk of the stone being alive might be metaphorically speaking, the same as referring to mother earth as being a living entity and a she...

Then how would you explain all the spirits in the deep roads?  To me that's The Stone's memory.  Andrastians have said dwarves are not of the maker, and the statue in the the tower reffered to them as the stone's children.


And who makes the statues?  I could model a statue tomorrow that referred to myself as a child of the earth, it doesn't really mean anything concrete. 

As far as Andrastians being the gospel on who is of whom, I don't really have much faith in their word either; they certainly wouldn't be the first power hungry organisation to spread lies and propaganda to achieve their ends.  To that end why is a dwarf trying to spread the chant of light and teachings of Andraste to the dwarves of Orzammar?

And there is nothing to say that dwarves do not have spirits that may stick around when trapped, I honestly didn't see that situation as being any different than when taking back Soldiers Peak keep and the spirits of wardens and attackers were present and replaying the happenings there.

Modifié par Macropodmum, 02 septembre 2011 - 11:50 .


#491
Nimrodell

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Macropodmum wrote...

Todd23 wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

I think maybe the talk of the stone being alive might be metaphorically speaking, the same as referring to mother earth as being a living entity and a she...

Then how would you explain all the spirits in the deep roads?  To me that's The Stone's memory.  Andrastians have said dwarves are not of the maker, and the statue in the the tower reffered to them as the stone's children.


And who makes the statues?  I could model a statue tomorrow that referred to myself as a child of the earth, it doesn't really mean anything concrete. 

As far as Andrastians being the gospel on who is of whom, I don't really have much faith in their word either; they certainly wouldn't be the first power hungry organisation to spread lies and propaganda to achieve their ends.  To that end why is a dwarf trying to spread the chant of light and teachings of Andraste to the dwarves of Orzammar?

And there is nothing to say that dwarves do not have spirits that may stick around when trapped, I honestly didn't see that situation as being any different than when taking back Soldiers Peak keep and the spirits of wardens and attackers were present and replaying the happenings there.


Actually, in Kal'Hirol, you get to see all those dwarven spirits repeating the same scenes and even fighting ... you get to see and hear Dailan and even see how he died.

#492
Macropodmum

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Nimrodell wrote...

Actually, in Kal'Hirol, you get to see all those dwarven spirits repeating the same scenes and even fighting ... you get to see and hear Dailan and even see how he died.


That is the one I was thinking of, it played out very much the same way as Soldiers Peak Image IPB

#493
EmperorSahlertz

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The statue in the tower seems to be rather knowledgeable about a lot of things actually. Come to think of it. During Witch Hunt, the statue is a state of fear, and keeps saying "Prison has been breached!". It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Witch Hunt takes place eitehr during, or after the Deep Roads expedition, which could mean that the prison refered to, is actually the Primeval Thaig.

#494
Macropodmum

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Oh, that statue. I don't actually remember her saying anything about dwarves. Wasn't she a magister that got trapped in stone?

#495
EmperorSahlertz

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Yeah, and in Witch Hunt, she refers to the Dwarves as Children of the Stone. Wether or not they actually are, or that she was just using their own honorific title, remains to be seen.

#496
whykikyouwhy

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I don't know that she was identified as a magister, but she was (supposedly) a consort and advisor to Archon Valerius. Her comment about the prison may coincide with Legacy actually. Witch Hunt takes place what? 3 years after the archdemon falls? If the Legacy quest is handled in Act 2 (which I have seen comments indicating that to be a good time to incorporate it), that would sync the timelines up more or less. Of course, the comment doesn't have to coincide exactly with Corypheus's "escape" - it could be a prophetic outcry, or a flashback of the event.

#497
Nimrodell

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Well, I wouldn't go for 'The prison has been breached' as Corypheus getting loose since there are veil tears in Ferelden Circle and Eleni Zinovia is situated there... But having together Primeval thaig, Grey Wardens on secret mission and if Carver or Bethany are Grey Wardens, they still won't tell Hawke what is that important mission, then second visit to thaig either for Nathaniel or for those 3 dwarven brothers... and Corypheus, I think that something even more ancient got loose. Tis like in Book of Revelation - random small and big events, with not that visible connection, announcing the huge change that will come to the world.

#498
MichaelFinnegan

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whykikyouwhy wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

Erm, just replaying The Witch Hunt and again finding something strange... it could be nothing but still. When Eleni Zinovia (the statue) is telling Finn and Warden about survivors from Arlathan and the lights, when she speaks about Cadash thaig, she literally says this: Their sorrow awakend the Stone (again Stone with capital s)... I keep wondering if the stone written like this is just a metaphor for dwarves or it is entirely something else?

Btw, I remembered one more dwarven imprisonment in stone - a dragon in royal palace of Orzammar.

Sorrow awakening the Stone (or, that which we have not yet truly defined) may be similar to what Filament was theorizing - that some great event took place, some great sacrifice (of say, 1000+ slaves???), some transference of souls for golemes, some blood-letting upon the earth/lyrium. It's the pain that has become etched or imprinted in the primeval thaigs - or the spirit of pain, something sentient that is now either trapped or just an echo of what was.

Nothing so fanciful, I'm afraid. :)

In this case, there is nothing new to be learnt apart from what is already talked about here and here. Which I thought was a disappointment. Verbatim, her full statement reads, "Their sorrow awoke the Stone and her children sheltered them." It is specifically talking about the destruction of Arlathan ("their sorrow"), and how the dwarves of Cad'halash sheltered them ("her [Stone's] children sheltered them"). Whether Eleni meant anything by the "awakening of the Stone" other than the kind-heartedness of those dwarves to shelter the fleeing elves is not clear - but I don't think there is any deeper meaning to be had here.

But what I'm specifically curious about are two things:
1. What happened at the Circle's basement itself. What caused those Veil tears? Any indications at all in the game? Something someone did to get at something - like some piece of information?
2. What Eleni says: "Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." Specifically, "thus I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." She's obviously referring to her plight of being trapped inside that statue, but "lighting their fires again" and "return of the Maker" are curious things. I believe she's prophesizing about something, but is being heavily metaphorical about it (religion-speak). It could be linked with what Sandal said: "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide." Everyone becoming "just like they were" might include Eleni also.

There is certainly something to both of these though. So it is worthy of debate, although I doubt we can add anything more to it at this point in time.

EDIT: Formatting fixes.

Modifié par MichaelFinnegan, 02 septembre 2011 - 09:50 .


#499
MichaelFinnegan

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EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The statue in the tower seems to be rather knowledgeable about a lot of things actually. Come to think of it. During Witch Hunt, the statue is a state of fear, and keeps saying "Prison has been breached!". It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Witch Hunt takes place eitehr during, or after the Deep Roads expedition, which could mean that the prison refered to, is actually the Primeval Thaig.

Hmm. No, I think not.

Recounting the whole episode...

When we first meet up with Eleni's statue, she simply says this and doesn't converse further:
"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness.
The... the shadow will consume all..."

And, later, when all the tears in Veil are repaired,
"Stone eyes no longer clouded. The darkness recedes, for now..."

So, whatever it was that she was afraid of was resolved with the repairing of the Veil tears. For now, that is...

I would look at it this way. Perhaps the Veil itself could be thought about as a prison (who is imprisoning whom, though?). And, so "tears in the Veil" could be a reference to "the prison being breached." That would put a whole new perspective on things, I'd think. Particularly about "the encroaching darkness" and "the shadow consuming all."

Hmm....

#500
Todd23

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"Stone eyes no longer clouded. The darkness recedes, for now...". If the darkness receding refers to the veil being repaired, then the for now part probably means she got the same prophecy as Sandal.