532 réponses à ce sujet

[Todd23]

"Stone eyes no longer clouded. The darkness recedes, for now...". If the darkness receding refers to the veil being repaired, then the for now part probably means she got the same prophecy as Sandal.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

[The Xand]

Rifneno wrote...- Then there's the infamous lyrium idol itself. Take a good look at it, here if you wish. There are two figures, one a female standing and another of unknown gender only seen from the torso up and only from the back, with his head against her side and a large circular object behind them. The most glaring oddity of the idol is that these figures are not dwarves. There isn't enough detail to know whether they're elven or human but they are far too tall to be dwarves.  Why would the dwarves worship a deity in a human or elven form?

It's probably an Old One. I strongly suspect that Flemeth is an Old One on account of being a talking dragon that can possess people, and when she takes humanoid form it is as a human. That idol looks to incorporate a number of serpentine features as well as human. It would make sense too that if the Tevinters worshipped the Old Ones and if it turned out that the Elven pantheon was their own take on them then the ancient Dwarves might have done so too with ancestor worship only coming about as a replacement to the Old Ones after the Old Ones mysteriously disappeared.

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

And I think your observation that
the Primeval Thaig idol being a broken off part of a "lyrium" staff may
be a good point. The idol does look a bit weird at the bottom, with
those "veins" dangling about, as if it was broken off from something. We
cannot be entirely sure, of course, but it is a good theory in my
opinion.

And let's go back for a bit to Kirkwall - to see your
other point and link it again to something else. Doesn't the Enigma of
Kirkwall codex hint at centuries of blood letting, a thousand slaves
killed every year?:
"Access has not been easy, and I fear my
disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the
templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled
beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of
blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down.
The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel
great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died
here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need
so much power?"

Kirkwall was established sometime after
Arlathan was sacked and before the magisters attempted to invade the
Golden City, according to this timeline.
With the sacking of Arlathan and enslaving the elves, the imperium had a
ready supply of elven slaves. Now let's look at what I quoted above
from the codex: "the sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all
leading down." Down? To whither I wonder?

Time to get a bit
creative. What if all that blood was channeled down, deep down? To some
of those dwarven thaigs, where raw and pure lyrium (the blue variety) is
actually found? And that is the reason why all the lyrium there seems
to have turned "red." It was perhaps an amalgamation of blood and lyrium
that finally gave these magisters what they needed. Enough power to
breach the barriers that protected the Golden City itself. It may not
have been power, per se, but something else that perhaps needed to be
overcome, and this combination of blood and lyrium gave them the
capability, finally.

To be fair that actually does sound quite plausible. There's a series of books written by a British author called David Gemmel that focuses on a lyrium like stone substance called "Sipstrassi" that comes in gold and silver forms and they possess finite powers of healing and creation, but when fed with blood they become something called "Bloodstones" that turn dark red and hold vast powers of destruction but lose the ability to create and have an addictive negative effect on a person's personality making them much darker, more ruthless and evil. I think that Bioware might have been inspired by it though.

http://www.davidgemm...itle=Sipstrassi

Modifié par The Xand, 10 septembre 2011 - 02:35 .

[Satyricon331]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

I forget her exact line, but Morrigan at that same point says the ruins aren't elven.  I took Alistair's account to suggest he doesn't know history as well as that other exchange they had might suggest (the one where he says he isn't stupid b/c Templars studied history) 

Since the ruins look substantially like the architecture at Ostagar, I take the architecture to be human even though you see elven artifacts like those illithid-looking wall ornaments associated with elven gods.  In other words, it's much like the Dalish Origin ruins.

[Nimrodell]

Satyricon331 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

I forget her exact line, but Morrigan at that same point says the ruins aren't elven.  I took Alistair's account to suggest he doesn't know history as well as that other exchange they had might suggest (the one where he says he isn't stupid b/c Templars studied history) 

Since the ruins look substantially like the architecture at Ostagar, I take the architecture to be human even though you see elven artifacts like those illithid-looking wall ornaments associated with elven gods.  In other words, it's much like the Dalish Origin ruins.

Ah, but there's a problem - even Morrigan states that, there are plenty elven things in those - some are seen in Dalish start, some while going after Witherfang. Even 'In Uthenera' codex entry is gained there, as elven tablet with elven ritual (not to mention arcane warrior and Old Oak's story about Brecilian Forest and how it came to be).

Have one addition tho to something previously said - according to Brother Genitivi and his research on dwarves, he states that Stone is not metaphor for dwarven people, it is different naming for earth itself. Dwarven Faith codex entry for dwarves is a bit different, but Genitivi's version states that. Now, if misery of Arlathan refugees in Cadash Thaig awakened the Stone itself and it wept - maybe that waking is actually depicted in greenery of Cadash Thaig - that's the only thaig where we find rich flora, even though tis underground. If that's the case, then we have all religion's more intertwined than we assume. Again - different points of view, different visions of 'truth' on what really happened.

[The Xand]

I doubt that very much given that there's not been any real evidence for actual deities in the Dragon Age universe. More likely that as in real life they threw a religious spin onto an actual event to explain it in simple terms. The flora isn't anything special either I'm sure because there are beams of light suggesting that it's open to the sky in places. Failing that it might just have been the elves having imported some hardy plantlife.

Modifié par The Xand, 10 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Satyricon331]

Nimrodell wrote...
*snip*
Ah, but there's a problem - even Morrigan states that, there are plenty elven things in those - some are seen in Dalish start, some while going after Witherfang. Even 'In Uthenera' codex entry is gained there, as elven tablet with elven ritual (not to mention arcane warrior and Old Oak's story about Brecilian Forest and how it came to be).

How is there a problem?  It seems we agree there are elven artifacts there.  The most likely explanation seems to be that humans and elves co-existed; is that the point you're trying to raise?

[Nimrodell]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...
*snip*
Ah, but there's a problem - even Morrigan states that, there are plenty elven things in those - some are seen in Dalish start, some while going after Witherfang. Even 'In Uthenera' codex entry is gained there, as elven tablet with elven ritual (not to mention arcane warrior and Old Oak's story about Brecilian Forest and how it came to be).

How is there a problem?  It seems we agree there are elven artifacts there.  The most likely explanation seems to be that humans and elves co-existed; is that the point you're trying to raise?

Sorry if I misunderstood you and yes, that was my point - it seems that there was sort of a co-existence or even more plausible scenario - elves lived there first, then humans came taking and changing the elven habitat - sort of a like cake layers. One thing I find confusing are those ghosts of a boy and a woman - as I recall, the woman is named as 'Elven Spirit' even tho she and boy have human ears. Maybe that's just simple mistake or maybe it was done on purpose, but still if it's not a mistake, then it makes things even more interesting.

As for Cadash Thaig - I haven't seen yet any other thaig that looks like that. Kal'Hirol has blueish hues 'cause of lyrium presence, the rest is pretty much dark or with orange/redish/yellow hues, due to pyres or lava - but no greenery. Even  Aeducan Thaig, that has many cracks and holes with visible open sky light doesn't possess greenery. Ah well, again supposition.

[My_Decemberling]

Nimrodell wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...
*snip*
Ah, but there's a problem - even Morrigan states that, there are plenty elven things in those - some are seen in Dalish start, some while going after Witherfang. Even 'In Uthenera' codex entry is gained there, as elven tablet with elven ritual (not to mention arcane warrior and Old Oak's story about Brecilian Forest and how it came to be).

How is there a problem?  It seems we agree there are elven artifacts there.  The most likely explanation seems to be that humans and elves co-existed; is that the point you're trying to raise?

Sorry if I misunderstood you and yes, that was my point - it seems that there was sort of a co-existence or even more plausible scenario - elves lived there first, then humans came taking and changing the elven habitat - sort of a like cake layers. One thing I find confusing are those ghosts of a boy and a woman - as I recall, the woman is named as 'Elven Spirit' even tho she and boy have human ears. Maybe that's just simple mistake or maybe it was done on purpose, but still if it's not a mistake, then it makes things even more interesting.

As for Cadash Thaig - I haven't seen yet any other thaig that looks like that. Kal'Hirol has blueish hues 'cause of lyrium presence, the rest is pretty much dark or with orange/redish/yellow hues, due to pyres or lava - but no greenery. Even  Aeducan Thaig, that has many cracks and holes with visible open sky light doesn't possess greenery. Ah well, again supposition.

Morrigan states that they are tevinter ruins with elven artifacts, I think she says something to the effect of "The ruins seem tevinter, but with elven trappings how odd...?" . For some reason I don't see those two cultures co-existing peacefully. I think it may be more plausable that, if elven refugees were hiding amoungst the dwarves, that the Tevinters would come after them. I wouldn't put it past them to build fortresses going underground to look for them. And if they found nothing, and abandoned them, I wouldn't put it past the elves to re-inhabit them...I don't know. Just a thought.

[whykikyouwhy]

@My_Decemberling - Could there be some correlation to the alliance/trade relations that the dwarves had with Tevinter? On a side note, didn't the elves teach the Tevinter how to use lyrium? (Wiki info, so the accuracy may be iffy.) If so, that could explain why some elven relics were stored.

[My_Decemberling]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@My_Decemberling - Could there be some correlation to the alliance/trade relations that the dwarves had with Tevinter? On a side note, didn't the elves teach the Tevinter how to use lyrium? (Wiki info, so the accuracy may be iffy.) If so, that could explain why some elven relics were stored.

Its possible. lol. I was just throwing out an idea. I've never read anything about the elves teaching tevinters to use lyrium, but I may have missed something. But I would guess it would have been early tevinters. Thats where it gets confusing, do we know when the battle in the bracillian forest took place as compared to the battle at sundermount (which was apparently the last). Or do we even know if the bracillian ruins were built before either? If they were I could understand early tevinters and elves living and trading together. However, if this happened after Arlathan was sunk, I don't think the elves would be like "OH HAI! we be your slaves now yes?" Although, heck those ruins could just be where the tevinters stored all the elven junk who knows? XD

Both Tevinter and the ancient elves had relations with the dwarves, that's where everythign gets really iffy. Tevinter needed lyrium so they had to keep up trade, but I doubt they'd be happy the dwarves were sheltering refugees. There is certainly a lot of stuff we don't know. lol. I wish there was a better timeline. XD Plus, I think the fact that the primevil thiag looking so dwarfy could be, if it really is Arlathan, because aren't dwarves the only people that can build things that last hundreds of years? I may be wrong, but what if dwarves were hired to build things for tevinter and the elves. There could certainly be similarites between architecture I guess. This is just wild cotemplation on my part though. lol. 

Modifié par My_Decemberling, 10 septembre 2011 - 10:38 .

[The Xand]

My_Decemberling wrote...


Morrigan states that they are tevinter ruins with elven artifacts, I think she says something to the effect of "The ruins seem tevinter, but with elven trappings how odd...?" . For some reason I don't see those two cultures co-existing peacefully. I think it may be more plausable that, if elven refugees were hiding amoungst the dwarves, that the Tevinters would come after them. I wouldn't put it past them to build fortresses going underground to look for them. And if they found nothing, and abandoned them, I wouldn't put it past the elves to re-inhabit them...I don't know. Just a thought.

Well it would seem that there were a few Thaigs that did harbour elven refugees and that did indeed ****** off the Tevinters, ie in Cadash Thaig where elves had fled and then the dwarves had been so scared of Tevinter retribution and damaging their relations with them that the dwarves from Kal'Sharok themselves had annihilated that Thaig, along with all of the elves and dwarves in it. It's not inconceivable that there might have been others like it.

http://dragonage.wik...s_from_the_Past

[My_Decemberling]

The Xand wrote...

My_Decemberling wrote...


Morrigan states that they are tevinter ruins with elven artifacts, I think she says something to the effect of "The ruins seem tevinter, but with elven trappings how odd...?" . For some reason I don't see those two cultures co-existing peacefully. I think it may be more plausable that, if elven refugees were hiding amoungst the dwarves, that the Tevinters would come after them. I wouldn't put it past them to build fortresses going underground to look for them. And if they found nothing, and abandoned them, I wouldn't put it past the elves to re-inhabit them...I don't know. Just a thought.

Well it would seem that there were a few Thaigs that did harbour elven refugees and that did indeed ****** off the Tevinters, ie in Cadash Thaig where elves had fled and then the dwarves had been so scared of Tevinter retribution and damaging their relations with them that the dwarves from Kal'Sharok themselves had annihilated that Thaig, along with all of the elves and dwarves in it. It's not inconceivable that there might have been others like it.

http://dragonage.wik...s_from_the_Past

That makes sense. I hadn't seen that codex.  

[The Xand]

Ohh also, the elves were indeed the ones to first teach the Tevinters to use lyrium, or at least the ability to use lyrium to enter the fade in a conscious state.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

I always took that ruin to be Tevinter in nature.  Tevinter humans and their elven slaves.  Then Andraste starts her exalted march.  I'm sure her and Mafareth would have started in the southern portions of Ferelden.  This was probably the first Tevinter outpost to be sacked.  Thus we see the ghost of the small human boy.  The female in the chamber where we pick up the juggernaunt armor chest piece.  That ghost was also a female human and she was also a mage.  She called forth demons.  These are my thoughts on that ruin.  Ostagar was also built with the help of dwarves.  In DA2 we find out that the dwarves themselves also had human slaves, which blows my mind.  Also, with this ruin (elven ruin DAO) we know that a battle was once fought with darkspawn in this area as well along time ago.   The spirit in the gem says humans, and elves were running for their lives from a horrible battle.  The spirit saved itself in the gem.  I'm thinking when Andraste was burned that elves might have fled back to this ruin to hide far from Tevinter. 

With the pic in a few posts or a page back with Tamlen and PC dalish player that statue is the elven depiction of Andraste.  My thought anyway.

Also back on page 10 of this thread and the links posted to the pic in the thaig.  If you look at the ones of the tall black/grayish statues, they resemble the bottom part of the Maker statue in the chantry.  I don't know if this means anything or not.  The smaller ones in the treasure room remind me of some type of armored dwarf.  A Fex Warrior?  We were supposed to see Fex warriors in DA2 and they were cut for some reason. 

Just a few thoughts. from the various posts.   I'm just now catching up with this thread, I haven't read this since page 10. It's really grown.  Fantastic theories here.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2011 - 04:34 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Satyricon331 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

I forget her exact line, but Morrigan at that same point says the ruins aren't elven.  I took Alistair's account to suggest he doesn't know history as well as that other exchange they had might suggest (the one where he says he isn't stupid b/c Templars studied history) 

Since the ruins look substantially like the architecture at Ostagar, I take the architecture to be human even though you see elven artifacts like those illithid-looking wall ornaments associated with elven gods.  In other words, it's much like the Dalish Origin ruins.

Two guards at Ostagar say it was buildt by dwarven engineers and this is the reason that Ostagar has stood for so long.  Seems to me that dwarves had alot of contracts with Tevinter building their outposts for them.

Edit:  I think Ostagar was also a Tevinter outpost or some type of college or learning institution for Tevinter where they conducted magical experiments. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[TEWR]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I just remembered something that may lend more credence to the Elves living under ground. The ruins in the Brecillian Forest. Those were Elven, and went deep under ground. Alistair even have a line about it: "Is this an Elven place? Did the Elves live under ground, just like the Dwarves?"
Perhaps the Elves actually did have an extensive network of settlements under ground in ancient times.

I forget her exact line, but Morrigan at that same point says the ruins aren't elven.  I took Alistair's account to suggest he doesn't know history as well as that other exchange they had might suggest (the one where he says he isn't stupid b/c Templars studied history) 

Since the ruins look substantially like the architecture at Ostagar, I take the architecture to be human even though you see elven artifacts like those illithid-looking wall ornaments associated with elven gods.  In other words, it's much like the Dalish Origin ruins.

Two guards at Ostagar say it was buildt by dwarven engineers and this is the reason that Ostagar has stood for so long.  Seems to me that dwarves had alot of contracts with Tevinter building their outposts for them.

From what I recall, the old Dwarven Empire -- that is, post-Primeval Thaig -- had a trading relationship with the Tevinter Imperium and built many things for them. But they also traded secretly with the Avvar Barbarians and helped build the underground area of Vigil's Keep.

It also seems that they held trading relationships with the Arlathan elves, seeing as the Dwarves of Cadash Thaig offered them shelter and many Dwarves speculated that elven relics may have been hidden in the thaig.

The Dwarves most likely built the fortresses and other areas for Tevinter in whatever shape the Tevinters wanted, but the Dwarves used their own materials and know-how. Thus it's Tevinter architecture and Dwarven in origin.

This probably applies to the elves as well, where the Dwarves built it along the Tevinter style for the humans and elves that lived together.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I forget about the Vigil and them trading with Avvar Barbarians. Those dwarves are a rich bunch, more so than they let on.

[My_Decemberling]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I forget about the Vigil and them trading with Avvar Barbarians. Those dwarves are a rich bunch, more so than they let on.

To true. lol. And for a group that prides themselves on well documented history they sure seem to not know a lot of things.

[The Xand]

My_Decemberling wrote...

To true. lol. And for a group that prides themselves on well documented history they sure seem to not know a lot of things.

Andraste: "Hey didn't you dwarven chaps build a ton of stuff for the Tevinters?"

Dwarf: "...no, it's lost history."

[PsychoBlonde]

Nimrodell wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...
*snip*
Ah, but there's a problem - even Morrigan states that, there are plenty elven things in those - some are seen in Dalish start, some while going after Witherfang. Even 'In Uthenera' codex entry is gained there, as elven tablet with elven ritual (not to mention arcane warrior and Old Oak's story about Brecilian Forest and how it came to be).

How is there a problem?  It seems we agree there are elven artifacts there.  The most likely explanation seems to be that humans and elves co-existed; is that the point you're trying to raise?

Sorry if I misunderstood you and yes, that was my point - it seems that there was sort of a co-existence or even more plausible scenario - elves lived there first, then humans came taking and changing the elven habitat - sort of a like cake layers. 

Keep in mind that there was supposedly a period (possibly even a lengthy period) of peaceful interaction between prehistorical humans and prehistorical elves--until the elves "Quickened" and started to age and die.  The elves then withdrew from the humans, who viewed this as a hostile act and retaliated preemptively (so the story goes).  At the end of it, Arlathan was destroyed, the elves were enslaved, and there followed many centuries of the Tevinter Imperium ruling all of Thedas until the Blight + Andraste broke it up.

Details vary from sketchy to nonexistant, so there's probably a million ways you could interpret this story.  Maybe the ancient inhabitants of Arlathan interbred with humans and produced an entirely new, mutable race (elves).  Maybe the ancient elves assumed their children would be as immortal as they were, and so took the typical route of entering Uthenera.  Now the new half-humans discover they age and die just as humans do, and freak out about it.  Modern elves are not necessarily identical to ancient elves--in fact, if they did lose their immortality this is a pretty fair indication that they're not much like ancient elves at all.

Heck, how long did elves live under the Magisters of the Imperium?  Who knows what experiments were conducted.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Xand wrote...

My_Decemberling wrote...

To true. lol. And for a group that prides themselves on well documented history they sure seem to not know a lot of things.

Andraste: "Hey didn't you dwarven chaps build a ton of stuff for the Tevinters?"

Dwarf: "...no, it's lost history."

  Yup, they would have been smart to lie to her.

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Xand wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

And I think your observation that the Primeval Thaig idol being a broken off part of a "lyrium" staff may be a good point. The idol does look a bit weird at the bottom, with those "veins" dangling about, as if it was broken off from something. Wecannot be entirely sure, of course, but it is a good theory in my opinion.

And let's go back for a bit to Kirkwall - to see your other point and link it again to something else. Doesn't the Enigma of Kirkwall codex hint at centuries of blood letting, a thousand slaves killed every year?:
"Access has not been easy, and I fear my disguise will not bear great scrutiny. But I saw the records the templars say do not exist. The blood of countless slaves was spilled beneath the city in sacrifice. Whole buildings were built upon lakes of blood. The sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down.The scale is hard to fathom.

A blood mage can channel great power from a simple cut. At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?"

Kirkwall was established sometime after Arlathan was sacked and before the magisters attempted to invade the Golden City, according to this timeline. With the sacking of Arlathan and enslaving the elves, the imperium had a ready supply of elven slaves. Now let's look at what I quoted above from the codex: "the sewers have grooves where blood would flow, all leading down." Down? To whither I wonder?

Time to get a bit creative. What if all that blood was channeled down, deep down? To some of those dwarven thaigs, where raw and pure lyrium (the blue variety) is actually found? And that is the reason why all the lyrium there seems to have turned "red." It was perhaps an amalgamation of blood and lyrium that finally gave these magisters what they needed. Enough power to breach the barriers that protected the Golden City itself. It may not have been power, per se, but something else that perhaps needed to be overcome, and this combination of blood and lyrium gave them the capability, finally.

To be fair that actually does sound quite plausible. There's a series of books written by a British author called David Gemmel that focuses on a lyrium like stone substance called "Sipstrassi" that comes in gold and silver forms and they possess finite powers of healing and creation, but when fed with blood they become something called "Bloodstones" that turn dark red and hold vast powers of destruction but lose the ability to create and have an addictive negative effect on a person's personality making them much darker, more ruthless and evil. I think that Bioware might have been inspired by it though.

http://www.davidgemm...itle=Sipstrassi

I think that is a pretty good correlation. It is certainly interesting that these stones (in David Gemmel's universe, of course) merely unleash what the human mind is already capable of. Kind of like references to thoughts creating demons in the Fade (Shah Wyrd), and demons occupying "psychic" territory in the Fade, etc. within DA.

Certainly, the cardinal rules of magic come to mind. Looking at it again:
"Similarly, even when you send your mind into the Fade, your body remains behind. Only once has this barrier been overcome, and reputedly the spell required two-thirds of the lyrium in the Tevinter Imperium as well as the lifeblood of several hundred slaves. The results were utterly disastrous."

I know it is First Enchanter Wenselus' supposition, but the combination of blood and lyrium is actually suggested in-game as a way to overcome the power-threshold of normal kinds of magic, so what we're doing is not exactly wild theorycrafting, in and of itself.

Now, with that in mind, the question is, what is that red lyrium found "deep down there?" Is it really formed out of blood and pure lyrium? Certainly, it is suggested to be pure lyrium, and the redness of it could be attributed to blood of slaves supposedly channeled under the sewers of Kirkwall for centuries. Like pure lyrium this one was found singing (both Bartrand and Varric say this). And unlike pure lyrium, this one seemed to be giving a non-mage, Meridith, extraordinary powers - almost like unleasing her negative energies and giving them shape, as was suggested with golden sipstrassi fed with blood. It probably drove her mad also, but come to think of it, isn't pure lyrium supposed to be detrimental in other ways to whoever comes in contact with it - like blistering skin, nausea, etc? Did blood simply make it more safe to handle, for whatever reason?

And those profane in Primeval Thaig feeding on that red lyrium for ages - what if it was actually blood in the lyrium, and not per se lyrium, that was keeping them alive all this time?

And what was Bartrand was doing with that idol? He was feeding it flesh from his slaves. For what reason though? Could be blood for more power. But why, though? Was it something within the idol that was demanding it? Some trapped soul perhaps - that was demanding to be worshipped?

Above and beyond the concept of combining the powers of two entities, there is something more that the writers have woven into all this - the concepts of the Fade, demons, etc. One could argue of course that these are creations of the mind itself, and that lyrium is some "alien" entity.

[My_Decemberling]

 I'm just going to post this here. It appeared on Dragon Age's facebook page. Those flags are definitly Dalish, those are Halla skulls at least. Do you think there could be a connection to the theories presented here? 

[img]https://p.twimg.com/AZZSZt5CAAAnybd.jpg[/img]

hmmm....

Modifié par My_Decemberling, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[TheCreeper]

Now in Thedas there is a lot of things/knowledge that have been lost to time (most of elvish history for example) but I think the dwarfs intentionally forgot about the Primeval thaig and everything related to it.

It's implied that there were religious icons that were not the paragons, myths are pretty hard to forget about, even the dalish still remeber their myths really well. The Dwarves apparently don't remeber even having a mythology beyond paragon worship, I mean there isn't even so much as a half forgotten myth, and yet there is a thaig with a temple. So what could have happened that they wanted to totally bury so much of their past and culture?

Personally I think whatever happened in the Thaig broke magic. Sandal (if he isn't just a red herring) implied that everyone used to have magic, so whatever happened in the thaig was so wrong it broke the fade so hard that magic no longer worked for everyone. maybe what happened in the Thaig was what blackened the Golden city (the tevinter's attempt to step foot in just turned them into Darkspawn instead of actually corrupting the city)