[quote]Nimrodell wrote...
I mentioned those lines from Ruck as possibility to explain further your theory about lyrium actually calling the darkspawn, not Old Gods themselves, 'cause Ruck was hearing the song but then it stopped... It might be the moment when the Architect tried his version of Joining on Urthemiel - thus breaking lyrium prison, I guess. That's why I mentioned Gangue Shade too (tho Gangue Shade is related even more to what I'm going to say).[/quote]
Ruck's statements now bring a bit of doubt to my mind about my own theory. Although.... Hmm. I wonder. Tainted creatures, like darkspawn, keep hearing the song of lyrium, and when the Archdemon awakens, they no longer hear it. It makes sense in the context of what happens, because the Archdemon takes command of the horde. So, well, this could be accounted for, I suppose. Even though I think I did anticipate it, it's still a weird thing. Perhaps the theory still sounds valid. But if the lyrium in general sings, and not the lyrium prison entombing the Old Gods, then the tainted creatures should also keep hearing the song. Ah, well, it's a difficult thing to explain.
Spirits of the Fade when in the mortal realm hear the song from lyrium. Darkspawn and other tainted creatures might be hearing the same song from lyrium. (And dwarves can hear it, too, but they may not be as succeptible to it.) It's almost as if darkspawn contain within them some (corrupted?) essence from the Fade, but since they're in the mortal realm, they can hear the song just like the spirits can.
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It's the Stone itself I have problem with - and the problem is maybe caused by the fact that English is not my mother tongue, so maybe there's subtle finesse that I'm not familiar with when it comes to nouns and genders in English.[/quote]
The Stone itself I think presents a problem. Too much of a metaphor suggested and so on. The Stone "living," being "pure" underneath, and yet having a layer of "corruption" on the surface - all sort of personifying some, as of unknown, entity. And references to the "Stone must live" suggesting that somehow it's in danger (of corruption?), from things like Malvernis or gangue or something else.
It almost seems to me that the Stone is a reference to raw lyrium, but it doesn't seem to make complete sense, because in the Amgeforn codex the Stone and lyrium are used in different senses - Malvernis threatening the Stone itself, but being chained in lyrium - so surely they're not the same. But perhaps somehow related.
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Dwarves keep referring to it as it is female, she (having covered Sumerian Ninurta or Greek Gaea, as Earth Mother - but so far they are always referred as Earth not Stone). Usually stone has neutral gender, and we refer to it as 'it', not 'she'... ah I hope I'll explain this good enough. In
Dwarven Faith Czibor is referring to it as 'she' and brother Genitivi says that Stone is sort of metonimy for earth (and tis logical as metonimy - they are more surrounded by stone than simple earth as surfacers).[/quote]
Ah, well, different points of view. "From the Stone we're born and to her embrace we go (at least the worthy ones)" is probably how the dwarves see themselves. And, for a human like Genitivi, the association, although transparent this way, wouldn't have the same meaning. He's an Andrastian, isn't he? So, he'd most revere the Maker, not possibly the earth, in itself. Personification of the Earth, for him, seems absent. This is as best as I could understand it.
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And here's again something that connects dwarves and elves - if the Stone is regarded as Earth Mother, well the elves have pretty much same view on her
Mythal.[/quote]
Mythal isn't the same as earth, for elves, I think. In that codex, there is the sun, the earth, Elgar'nan, and Mythal. I got the impression that all four are separate.
To understand elven faith (at least the one that Dalish think was the faith of their ancestors), we can look at the codex of Elgar'nan: "In the beginning, when time itself was young, the only things in existence were the sun and the land." So one can surmise that, from these (the sun and earth) all things came to be, including the gods of the Elven Pantheon - the Creators. So, strange as that might seem, the Creators came after the Creation of the earth and sun. But "the Creators" might be just a name ascribed to those gods by modern Dalish, not necessarily the ancient elves.
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Crosscut Drifters made me wonder before DA2 on that relation, 'cause they claimed they were led by the Stone and that's how they saved Orzammar...[/quote]
There seem to be all these rules about how the Deep Roads are supposed to be carved out, and these drifters were following their "ears" so to say, in violation of the rules. These rules make sense, because, if the dwarves keep digging at random, they might compromise the whole underground (Deep Road) network. The Crosscut Drifters is an episode meant to show us, perhaps, how prospecting happens for lyrium - by the "ear."
And, just to mention again, the relation between the Stone and lyrium appears to be a complex one - they may not be the same, but are somehow connected.
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but then Merril appeared and her words on Mythal before confronting the demon on Sundermount - she said that it's not wise to anger Mythal 'cause she will reject the person who did that (ah goddamit, forgot the exact words, but that's the essence I gathered from that line).[/quote]
She says, if Hawke questions her, "They say if Mythal smiles on you, then you need fear nothing at all. But those who anger her, they're struck from the earth... as if they never lived at all."
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And then, there's this
Rock Wraith.[/quote]
This creature seems as though the flesh has been removed from a dwarf and instead it has rocks for a body. And we know that it feeds on (red?) lyrium. But these wraiths seem like the outcome of some event in the past - something terrible going by the codex entry on The Profane. At least, I think the Profanes are the same as those rock wraiths.
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For elves, their Protector, Mythal, went silent, imprisoned by Fen'Harel, for dwarves (well, those that were in Bownammar, there's corruption in Stone herself).[/quote]
I see what you mean. Those stories might be linked, perhaps hinting at some one event in the past, which are both different interpretations of. But there is also some element of belief attached to all this. This makes any literal interpretations difficult, I think.
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And again, there are Cadash thaig codex entries that say that Stone awoke and wept for Arlathan elves (yes, it could be just metaphor, saying that children of Stone took pity, and yet again, it can be much simpler - literal meaning).[/quote]
On first glance, i took this to mean the dwarves themselves were referred rather than the Stone listening to elves, but I don't know what Eleni could really have meant. The statue wouldn't talk for that long, but it's something we'll meet up in the future, it seems.
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I just can't stop thinking that all of them are actually telling the same story, from their points of view. I know it could be random, that story designers even forgot about these tiny details and it was never their intention, but still it actually resembles the same mechanism we have in our own cross-references and archetypes when we look at fairy tales and myths. I like to think that story designers were actually aware of this, or maybe even trying to accomplish that by feigning the real myth, religion, stories from various nations archetype, collective memory mechanic.[/quote]
It is as you said, I think. And beyond that, there is the element of the delibrate also. To confuse by giving half-hints, half-truths, metaphorical references and so on. Surely, I think something substantial in all this has been left out, till now, at least.
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I hope I don't sound too confusing
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Not at all.
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