532 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost1041]

Doh I just remembered something Tamlen said in the dalish origins when he found the mirror. He said he saw some kind of city underground? Or possibly black and he couldn't look away before the mirror pulsed with the taint.

Duncan later says they came across such mirrors before and over time they simply break.

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Because several people already voiced a dissatisfaction with the imagery of the Primeval Thaig if the Arlathan theory is true, saying they thought the ancient elven lands would be more... I don't know, grand?

Maybe elegant might be a more fitting word.  I don't think anyone could say that the dwarven architecture wasn't grand, more that dwarven architecture is very blocky, featuring strong, straight lines etc, whereas elven architecture is more curvaceous and fluid, more reflective of their affinity with nature as opposed to the dwarves rigid affinity with the stone.

[Rifneno]

Ghost1041 wrote...

Doh I just remembered something Tamlen said in the dalish origins when he found the mirror. He said he saw some kind of city underground? Or possibly black and he couldn't look away before the mirror pulsed with the taint.

Duncan later says they came across such mirrors before and over time they simply break.

Yes, you're correct.  I wasn't going to bring this up because we weren't talking about the eluvians, but since you mentioned it... I noticed something rather peculiar about the Dalish origin eluvian.  There's two figures on the side of it, clearly crafted into the whole structure and not a later addition.  If you look very closely, they have human, not elven ears.  I wonder if that's a vague hint or something or... wait, no, Mr. Gaider warned me that was the path to madness.  As much as I'd like a glowing lyrium sword, I'd rather not go down that path.

Macropodmum wrote...

Maybe elegant might be a more fitting word.  I don't think anyone could say that the dwarven architecture wasn't grand, more that dwarven architecture is very blocky, featuring strong, straight lines etc, whereas elven architecture is more curvaceous and fluid, more reflective of their affinity with nature as opposed to the dwarves rigid affinity with the stone.

Exactly, well put.

[Macropodmum]

Rifneno wrote...

Ghost1041 wrote...

Doh I just remembered something Tamlen said in the dalish origins when he found the mirror. He said he saw some kind of city underground? Or possibly black and he couldn't look away before the mirror pulsed with the taint.

Duncan later says they came across such mirrors before and over time they simply break.

Yes, you're correct.  I wasn't going to bring this up because we weren't talking about the eluvians, but since you mentioned it... I noticed something rather peculiar about the Dalish origin eluvian.  There's two figures on the side of it, clearly crafted into the whole structure and not a later addition.  If you look very closely, they have human, not elven ears.  I wonder if that's a vague hint or something or... wait, no, Mr. Gaider warned me that was the path to madness.  As much as I'd like a glowing lyrium sword, I'd rather not go down that path.

Actually I just started DAO again the other day playing the Dalish origin story and I noticed that about the statues, in fact I was so surprised by their non elven nature I took screen shots... I was wondering if that is why they were assumed to have been of Tevinter origin?

Rifneno wrote...

Macropodmum wrote...

Maybe elegant might be a more fitting word.  I don't think anyone could say that the dwarven architecture wasn't grand, more that dwarven architecture is very blocky, featuring strong, straight lines etc, whereas elven architecture is more curvaceous and fluid, more reflective of their affinity with nature as opposed to the dwarves rigid affinity with the stone.

Exactly, well put.

Why thankyou, the artistic side of architecture is a fascination for me

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Wasn't the Urn Guardian wearing elven armor, or something similar? Which could be a nod to grand ancient civilizations, or just a tie to Andraste. What stands out for me about the idol though, is the artistic style - it looks very much like the way the slaves are depicted at the Gallows. Very lean, near emaciated figures. Also a similar (metal?) cast.

Funny that you mention this, I always took his helmet  being similar to a Grey Warden helmet.  They are nearly the same helmet.  Also his helmet looks similar to the helmet that we pick up when getting Shale.   The Honnalth (sp?) helmet.

[TEWR]

The Urn Guardian wears the Diligence armor set and wears a Grey Warden styled helmet. It's possible that he was once a Grey Warden, found them in Andraste's war against the Imperium after the Blight, or something else.


Or people really like the design so they copy it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 02:48 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Urn Guardian wears the Diligence armor set and wears a Grey Warden styled helmet. It's possible that he was once a Grey Warden, found them in Andraste's war against the Imperium after the Blight, or something else.


Or people really like the design so they copy it.

I wondered when first meeting him if he was a Grey Warden. 

[Jamie_edmo]

David Gaider wrote...

I have two things to say:

1) Excellent, well thought-out post. Nice conjecture. I like conjecture.

2) The Primeval Thaig, and what it signfies, will have importance in the future. Just FYI.

3) There's something you need to...

Oh, wait. Two things. Right! I'll stop there.

I always wondered what the point of the Primeval Thaig was, i just assumed is was a means to an end type of location/quest.

Im glad that it signfies importance in future games, even though i dont know what:huh:

[Satyricon331]

Rifneno wrote...
Yes, you're correct.  I wasn't going to bring this up because we weren't talking about the eluvians, but since you mentioned it... I noticed something rather peculiar about the Dalish origin eluvian.  There's two figures on the side of it, clearly crafted into the whole structure and not a later addition.  If you look very closely, they have human, not elven ears.  I wonder if that's a vague hint or something or... wait, no, Mr. Gaider warned me that was the path to madness.  As much as I'd like a glowing lyrium sword, I'd rather not go down that path.

Since it's come up, I'll say that when Bioware first started discussing the Eluvians as elven, I thought it was a simple retcon of the Dalish Origin, since those statues were clearly human (even apart from the ears, they're exactly in the Tevinter style) and Duncan even says it's a Tevinter mirror.  Lately though I've begun to wonder whether they meant it to indicate that Tevinter commandeered some of the eluvians (meaning Duncan would be right they're Tevinter, but wrong they're of Tevinter origin, unless the Tevinters also learned to make some).  If Morrigan can use one of them this late in the timeline, it seems plausible the magisters might have gotten their hands on some, and that's even ignoring the seeming human-elven cooperation the Dalish origin and the Brec forest ruins (via the convo with the phylactery that gives you the Arcane Warrior spec) hint at.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 09 août 2011 - 08:10 .

[TEWR]

Magisters of the Imperium did get their hands on the Eluvians, but Finn says that all they were able to use them for was communication over long distances.

[Satyricon331]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Magisters of the Imperium did get their hands on the Eluvians, but Finn says that all they were able to use them for was communication over long distances.

Ah, in the Witch Hunt DLC?  I did play that once... 

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Magister's could possibly have unlocked a way to use the Eluvians, and it was perhaos one of those they used to enter the Black City (perhaps even the very same we find in the Dalish origin). Very little data is known about the Imperium, so they might well have unlocked those Eluvians, but the texts detailing how, could have been lost during the Blight.

[TEWR]

Personally I doubt the Magisters used the Eluvians. They used their magic (blood and other, though I just stick to saying blood since that's generally what they use) on the Eluvians and got a communication device.

If history was able to remember that they did get the Eluvians and used them for communication, I would think history would also remember if they were able to use them for something else.

Plus, it contradicts what Morrigan said. She said the Eluvians lead to a place beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade. If they went into the Black City through an Eluvian, that's breaking lore.

[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Personally I doubt the Magisters used the Eluvians. They used their magic (blood and other, though I just stick to saying blood since that's generally what they use) on the Eluvians and got a communication device.

If history was able to remember that they did get the Eluvians and used them for communication, I would think history would also remember if they were able to use them for something else.

Plus, it contradicts what Morrigan said. She said the Eluvians lead to a place beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade. If they went into the Black City through an Eluvian, that's breaking lore.

But the Eluvians were not all just communication devices. Morrigan uses one in Witch Hunt as a portal of some sort. To somewhere...? Plus, Morrigan may not have had all of the information available on the Eluvian. She probably had more than most, but I'm sure some ancient lore was lost.

I think that the portal-Eluvians may have been utilized, and that blood magic was part of what allowed them to work to breach the threshold of the City (if that is indeed what happened). What if blood magic allowed them to mimic a 'receiving' Eluvian (since you may need two - one in location A and one in location ?

I have to agree with the distinguished robot-bear in the monocle - no lore was broken in the making of this theory.

[TEWR]

But the Eluvians were not all just communication devices. Morrigan uses one in Witch Hunt as a portal of some sort. To somewhere...? Plus, Morrigan may not have had all of the information available on the Eluvian. She probably had more than most, but I'm sure some ancient lore was lost.

Well that's why I said it would break the lore Morrigan gave us when she said they lead beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade

And I think she may have had all the information. She had an entire book devoted to the Eluvians from the time of Arlathan I believe.

I think that the portal-Eluvians may have been utilized, and that blood magic was part of what allowed them to work to breach the threshold of the City (if that is indeed what happened). What if blood magic allowed them to mimic a 'receiving' Eluvian (since you may need two - one in location A and one in location ?

But that's the thing, the Tevinters used blood magic on the Eluvians and got fancy telephones. Blood magic couldn't have caused it to be a portal.

I have to agree with the distinguished robot-bear in the monocle - no lore was broken in the making of this theory.

Well, I wouldn't want the Black City to be in both the Fade and somewhere beyond the Fade, because that's just.... too much..... something.

whether it can be redirected is unknown though, so meh. I really wouldn't like that change of lore though despite it being a valid one. It just wouldn't sit well with me for some reason.

[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But that's the thing, the Tevinters used blood magic on the Eluvians and got fancy telephones. Blood magic couldn't have caused it to be a portal.

Do you mind pointing me to the source for this? (which could be in one of the many pages of this thread) I just don't recall anything specific about the Tevinters+blood magic = teleo-phones. But I don't remember much having been on this speculation train for so long.

EDIT - Found this in the wiki - "After the fall of Arlathan, the Tevinter magisters attempted to unlock the secrets of the Eluvians, but all they could use them for was long-distance communication."

But, that could just mean that the non-City-trespassing magisters could not achieve anything beyond communication. We really don't know what that group did to (supposedly) get into the City. That magic, or that particular key they used, could be lost to us, for now.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 10 août 2011 - 03:27 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Filament wrote...

Maybe Corypheus will explain it to us if we ask nicely...

Well, we could ask Larius/Janeka. Corypheus-the-twisted seems a bit...sleepy at the moment.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Personally I doubt the Magisters used the Eluvians. They used their magic (blood and other, though I just stick to saying blood since that's generally what they use) on the Eluvians and got a communication device.

If history was able to remember that they did get the Eluvians and used them for communication, I would think history would also remember if they were able to use them for something else.

Plus, it contradicts what Morrigan said. She said the Eluvians lead to a place beyond Thedas and beyond the Fade. If they went into the Black City through an Eluvian, that's breaking lore.

I imagine Morrigan meant that the specific eluvian she had went to this "beyond." It certainly didn't go to where the Dalish origin one went, because that one went something very, very bad. I agree with the notion it was probably linked to the Black City. He saw a city and "a great darkness" and soon both he and the warden are infected with the blight disease and the area is teeming with darkspawn. Whether he saw the Black City or a very lost and very tainted thaig, that portal led to a darkspawn stronghold.

Have I mentioned lately how thankful I am that Merrill never manages to fix that thing?

You know what this forum needs? More smilies, custom smilies. Not just the little yellow beach ball face, but some Bioware characters. Like Varric smirking, or TIM grinning evilly (I don't think he has any other expression... maybe angry?).

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Well, we could ask Larius/Janeka. Corypheus-the-twisted seems a bit...sleepy at the moment.

Hawke: Oh, "Larius." Long time no taint. Hey, can you answer a question for me? These ancient elvish mirrors, do you know where they go?
Larius: Think you that I--err, Why in Dumat's name would you think I know that?

[Gespenst]

Just a note, I wrote this as I was reading so if I repeat what other people said I am sorry but since I have written it now... some of it’s not really relevant now but ... well I wrote it, I’m not just going to delete it.

Wow... that's very compelling and I'd quite like it to be the case... I was thinking the other day that the primeval thaig would have to be very old indeed - it would have to predate the modern dwarven language and belief system but if it wasn't Dwarven... the architecture doesn't seem very elven but who’s to say what happens when a city is submerged by magic?

So you think the ancient and mysterious ritual in Kirkwall was used to sink Arlathan? Then the biggest questions I have personally are

When did Arlathan fall?

When was Kirkwall (or rather Emerius) founded?

There's a list of Archons here

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Archon

It was built around the time of the rule of Vanarius Issar (or at least he ruled while it's founder Emerius was still alive) but there's no indication if that list is even chronologically alone of the timescale.

Does this theory explain the golems that predate Caridin?

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

3. I do, but with no supporting evidence I didn't want to cloud up that post with it. You'll note that veins of red lyrium are coming through the walls of the Primeval Thaig. At first I thought perhaps lyrium was some kind of plant life, growing extremely slowly, because it was clearly there after the place was built but doesn't seem to be a decoration.[/quote]

Crystals grow.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

I don't know what "clearly of dwarven make" means. Admittedly that goes against the Arlathan theory, unless there was a connection between the two more than we know. [/quote]


All I can think of is that the Dwarves of Cadash Thaig took in some refugees from Alathan before being sold out to the imperium by... I want to say Kal Sharok but it might have been some other settlement.

Of course it was actually before Cadesh Thaig was founded but I can't remember the old name for the place... Cad'halash. So ... Cadash thaig fell sometime after Caridin made the anvil of the void... does that actually tell us anything?

According to the wiki the Primeval Thaig is over 10,000 years old but I don't know where that comes from.

[quote]I don't know what "clearly of dwarven make" means[/quote]

Maybe "made of lyrium"? Not many people work with lyrium and none in such quantity because, you know, it kills them

[quote]Sepewrath wrote...

So whose to say there weren't mage Dwarf's when that thaig was created and they would be susceptible to demons. [/quote]

I thought that the dwarven insensitivity to magic was something that was acquired over thousands of years of exposure to lyrium? I thought the story was always that dwarves were once magic but aren't anymore.

[quote]whykikyouwhy wrote...

I have not had nearly enough coffee to tackle this thread properly, but something caught my eye.

With regard to the lyrium idol linked above...the positioning of the female figure reminded me of something - something like this. Now... It could be uniformity and consistency and storytelling that bends back upon itself and a circle that is complete, so to speak. Or the idol could be foreshadowing - intentional or otherwise. [/quote]

That's what I thought it was about...

You know the more I look at that idol the more it creeps me the hell out...

[quote]Rifneno wrote...And even the greatest mages haven't been known to see the future. *looks back at whykikyouwhy's avatar* ... Nevermind.[/quote]

At least one other has

http://dragonage.wik...i/Eleni_Zinovia

[quote]whykikyouwhy wrote...

No, I hadn't mentioned the taint...here. It's tough to say what the darkspawn were oiginally - what mannerof creature they were prior to corruption. Humans become ghouls...elves become....???[/quote]

Banshees?

[quote]whykikyouwhy wrote...

Maybe darkspawn are actually corrupted beings infused/possessed by some type of spirit. It might explain their uniformity - all hurlocks look the same, all genlocks look the same (not counting alphas and
the like). So we have a sort of zombie disease that produces hordes of common looking creatures, with little variation. Could be the genetics of the taint.[/quote]

The Hurlocks look the same because they all joined the Putty Patrol between games or because all humans look alike to Dwarves and Varric is telling the story...

...and I've only just finished page 1 of this thread.

[quote]whykikyouwhy wrote...

I'm still of the opinion that profanes were people (dwarves? Elves? Humans?) who nibbled on the lyrium idol.[/quote]

The hunger demon says they ate lyrium ... or lyrium ore or whatever. I think he calls it magic rocks.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

Well Legacy pretty much took what we thought we knew of the timeline and shot it in the face with a thanix cannon. Like you said, the Tevinter Imperium was supposedly founded about 2000 years ago. 2025 years to be
exact, from the start of DAO/DA2. But we get evidence that that they locked away a tainted magister about 2,000 years ago. So a lot of the old dates are jawdroppingly inaccurate. Whether because of poor recordkeeping, retconning, or even Bioware just not bothering to doublecheck their work.[/quote]

Wasn't the 2000 year thing just from one line in the trailer? Isn't it more likely that that one line was off than the entire
timeline? Then again isn't the timeline based off chantry records? Even Genitivi said they weren't worth much.


[quote]

Let's look at it this way. Is it even possible for dwarves to have so completely wiped all records of their ancient civilization? The sealing of the Primeval Thaigs? Yes. The wiping out of all the records? Yes. Their earlier religious inclinations? Difficult, but not impossible. Losing their ability to do magic? Unlikely, unless we assume it is even a type of magic that we know of - I mean one requiring a connection to the Fade.[/quote]

The dwarves do seem to rely heavily on the shaperate to record their history (and then accept that history absolutely) and they have previously shown that they won't record certain troubling things... if a thaig falls in the forest and the shaperate doesn't record it did it actually happen (or whatever)? Who can say after 10,000 years?


[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

while we're on the topic of Dwarves, can someone tell me what current relations are like between Orzammar and Kal-Sharok? It's been some time since I've played DAO, and this is crucial to my DAO fanfiction.[/quote]

Frosty. At best. Orzammar sealed up the deep roads thinking everyone else was lost. They were quite surprised to find Kal-Sharok still there. Kal-Sharok was not impressed.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

I'm sure I'd get flack for saying it, but in the back of my mind I actually wonder if the constantly reused terrain wasn't partially because of this issue. Provided, of course, that the PT is part of Arlathan. They couldn't give it full out elven architecture. But if they didn't, it wouldn't fit the lore. But if reused textures was a constant theme of the game, no one would notice. People always assume the reason for the recycled models
was that they rushed the game. But did they?[/quote]

I've always suspected that some of the things that people have complained about are the result of Bioware playing a longer game than we might suspect but isn't that a bit too convoluted?

Tvtropes describes the Thaig as having "alien geometries" that the characters see but that aren't really represented on
screen. I'm not entirely sure what they're talking about but perhaps (well not really perhaps) whatever the Thaig was it has been warped and distorted over
the years.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

Indeed. I could understand him not knowing the name "darkspawn." Maybe they called them something different originally. But it's like Tommy Lee Jones came up and flashy-thinged him...[/quote]

Well he has been asleep for a long time. I bet you're not at your best first thing in the morning. He doesn't even remember the interrogation.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

Anyway, there was another thing I thought might be a connection but I verify it. I just don't have and can't find the tools. It's the background music. The track for the Primeval Thaig, called "Journey to Deep Fear" in the OST, sounds to me like a remix of DAO's "Elves At the Mercy of Men" track. But I'm just listening with a human ear and processing
the data with a human mind that, whether I want to be unbiased or not, is trying to find a connection. Which is bound to cloud my judgment. I'd prefer an audio program analyze them and see if there's similarities found in the beat,
pitch, or whatever that's not found in other random tracks. I tried to find some program to do such a thing but all I could find were ones made to tell you when you have a duplicate. [/quote]

...huh.

If you hadn't said I wouldn't have noticed but they do sound similar to me. Then again all the tracks might have some similarities anyway due to being from the same franchise.

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

That's what I used to say about the Magister/Oil City story.
[/quote]

What is Oil City? I can't find any reference to it on the wiki but the search does bring up results about Orzammar.

[quote]Satyricon331 wrote...

I remember a thread before that linked blood magic to red lyrium, which I thought sounded plausible. [/quote]

How do we know Lyrium isn't naturally red? Sure it's blue in the fade but that is the fade and in potions but that could be... E133? Do we ever see it in its natural state before DA:2?

[quote]Satyricon331 wrote...

it wouldn't explain the absence of elven architecture.  [/quote]

But what is elven architecture? Caravans? Or are you basing it off elves from other settings? Of course Mr. Gaider seems to have scuppered the PT = Arlathan thing, unless dwarves = elves + time.

[quote]ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Hawke doesn't actually kill Meredith, nor does the gray warden actually kill the arch demon. 
Something with great force killed Meredith once you get her health right at that critical strike to kill her. 
Someone or something takes it out of Hawke's hand.  You get the credit for doing so.  The same can be said for the warden killing the Archdemon.  Something with extreme force blew that dragon apart and knocked everyone off of their feet.  This is something that I've thought about. [/quote]

Maybe once the battle is decided the Maker steps in to... steal the kill?

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

There are wooden crates in the last room. Stuff made from trees, surrounded by many many miles of things that are, without exception, not trees. [/quote]

...not trees?

I don't know why but the way you said that really made me laugh.

Two final things:

How old is Flemeth and how long has she had that hat?

Could the eluvians power be fade related? Is it possible that they communicate through the fade? Or allow physical travel into the fade... actually that must be one of the features since that's what Audacity wanted. It'd be quite tidy if that's how the magisters invaded the golden city.

Modifié par Gespenst, 10 août 2011 - 05:50 .

[Satyricon331]

Gespenst wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...
I remember a thread before that linked blood magic to red lyrium, which I thought sounded plausible.

How do we know Lyrium isn't naturally red? Sure it's blue in the fade but that is the fade and in potions but that could be... E133? Do we ever see it in its natural state before DA:2?

In DAO, I remember seeing the silvery blue lyrium outside the Fade in at least the area around the Anvil, although the Veil's probably weak there.  (edit: At the least, Oghren doesn't find it remarkable, which is somewhat suggestive.)  If you had to place odds on it, at this point it would seem to favor blue, and I'm not certain but I want to say the lyrium you smuggle to the surface ffrom Orzammar is also blue, although I might be wrong and its icon was just a package.  Perhaps someone else can offer something more decisive.

Gespenst wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...
it wouldn't explain the absence of elven architecture. 

But what is elven architecture? Caravans? Or are you basing it off elves from other settings? Of course Mr. Gaider seems to have scuppered the PT = Arlathan thing, unless dwarves = elves + time.

Well, we haven't seen any that I can recall, but we know it's distinctive per my earlier post, and we know the PT had dwarven rather than elven architecture.  If it wasn't clear from my earlier posts, I view it as an open design opportunity for Bioware.

Your other points are good too but I'll let others comment on them.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 10 août 2011 - 06:43 .

[Morroian]

Satyricon331 wrote...

In DAO, I remember seeing the silvery blue lyrium outside the Fade in at least the area around the Anvil, although the Veil's probably weak there.  (edit: At the least, Oghren doesn't find it remarkable, which is somewhat suggestive.)  If you had to place odds on it, at this point it would seem to favor blue, and I'm not certain but I want to say the lyrium you smuggle to the surface ffrom Orzammar is also blue, although I might be wrong and its icon was just a package.  Perhaps someone else can offer something more decisive.

Normal lyrium is blue, we see it in Golems of Amgarak as well.

[whykikyouwhy]

@Gespenst - I don't even know where to begin in addressing your post. Not for anything negative - good thoughts, all of them. More because it's early, I'm still waking up, and my brain is running on empty.

I'll tackle on things though (and not the lyrium idol - which is may be that the people-who-became-profanes nibbled on the same substance as what made the idol, though not necessarily the idol itself. I'm sure the pickings were slim in the thaig)  - Eleni Zinovia. I had forgotten about her - or maybe I glazed over because Finn was involved and I was in a hurry during that part of Witch Hunt.

So Eleni tells the Warden to find the Lights of Arlathan in the Cadash Thaig, which points to more of a connection between the elves and the dwarves and their monumental cities/empires. One quote of interest from the wiki, specifically the Letters from the Past page is:

"Got the carvings. These two depict elves forming an alliance with the Cad'halash dwarves, after the destruction of Arlathan."

Someone may have brought that quote up before (I'll have to double-back and look), but it jumped out at me this morning.

Back to Eleni - the two prophetic quotes from her in the wiki are incredibly telling:

"Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again." - I bolded the little slip of the pronoun there.

"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..." - And that just makes the whole matter with Corypheus all the more warm and snuggly.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 10 août 2011 - 09:28 .

[Rifneno]

Gespenst wrote...

When did Arlathan fall?

There's no known records giving us even a ballpark answer to that, unfortunately.

When was Kirkwall (or rather Emerius) founded?

Ditto here. Pretty much all we know for certain was that their massive blood magic project began centuries before Andraste took down the Imperium.

Does this theory explain the golems that predate Caridin?

No, and that's probably the most puzzling thing to me. Caridin was adamant that he wanted the Anvil of the Void destroyed, and he was gleeful when it was. If he only got the knowledge from elsewhere and not invented it himself, why would he be satisfied with his anvil's destruction? It doesn't make any sense.

I suppose the simplest explanation is that some other expedition, a failed one, had a golem with them and it just sat there after the profane killed the fleshy folk. But I'm not sure they'd put it there if it wasn't part of the big picture.

Crystals grow.

They do? So Lex Luthor's plan in Superman Returns wasn't monumentally retarded? Woah. Anyways, not the crystals. I'm not sure those crystals are even actually lyrium. Here's what I was refering to:



As you can see, it's coming in through a hole in the wall. Either it put the wall there itself because it was... weaponized I guess you'd say, or the hole in the wall was just because it's a crumbling ruin and the lyrium grew through like a plant. It does look like a root. Either way, I believe this is interesting new information. We don't really know anything about lyrium. The Chantry says it's water from the Fade, but without an explanation for why Fade water is underground in Thedas, that doesn't really explain anything. We don't know what it is, we don't know why it is. The information that it grows is new and is a piece of the puzzle to understand it. The information that it can be weaponized and grab stuff like giant demonic tentacles it... okay, that one's just terrifying.

Anyways, like I said, I don't think the blue crystals we see around are lyrium. I'd be remiss to say that without showing what I'm fairly certain is lyrium.



The codex says lyrium is a iridescent, silvery color. The DA2 codex, and not the DA1 codex, which despite some lazy copy and paster at the wiki thinks, is not the same. That picture is a shot of the ceiling in the Primeval Thaig, one of the earlier rooms. More of it can be seen in the vault, in the distance with a bunch of the fallen statues that we haven't been able to identify.

All I can think of is that the Dwarves of Cadash Thaig took in some refugees from Alathan before being sold out to the imperium by... I want to say Kal Sharok but it might have been some other settlement.

Of course it was actually before Cadesh Thaig was founded but I can't remember the old name for the place... Cad'halash. So ... Cadash thaig fell sometime after Caridin made the anvil of the void... does that actually tell us anything?

According to the wiki the Primeval Thaig is over 10,000 years old but I don't know where that comes from.

DA2 was already mostly done when Witch Hunt was released. The story part, at least. I've wondered quite a bit whether the story about the elven refugees in Cadash was so we'd write off a few hints of elves in the Primeval Thaig when we got there. A red herring to an extent. If so, it worked incredibly well.

As for the 10,000 years remark, no one has ever substantiated it. There are some people questioning it in the wiki's talk page and it was discussed on these forums numerous times. We don't know where it came from. Maybe someone decided to take that stupid "OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!" meme to the next level.

I thought that the dwarven insensitivity to magic was something that was acquired over thousands of years of exposure to lyrium? I thought the story was always that dwarves were once magic but aren't anymore.

No, no one knows why dwarves don't have magic and there's no stories or legends in-game about ancient dwarves having magic. Surface dwarves eventually lose their natural magic resistance, presumably from not being near all that lyrium, but they don't gain the ability to do magic over new generation. Dev even said no to it flat out.

What is Oil City? I can't find any reference to it on the wiki but the search does bring up results about Orzammar.

My stupid nickname for the Golden City/Black City. Black gold... oil.

But what is elven architecture? Caravans? Or are you basing it off elves from other settings? Of course Mr. Gaider seems to have scuppered the PT = Arlathan thing, unless dwarves = elves + time.

Nah, I think if he was going to debunk the whole theory, he'd have done it in his first post. I doubt my musing over reused models just enraged him to do it. There's ways to explain some dwarven architecture there (it obviously isn't all dwarven or Bartrand wouldn't be so confused). Honestly I think it'd be much easier to explain dwarven architecture than the things pointing away from dwarves.

Maybe once the battle is decided the Maker steps in to... steal the kill?

Damn griefers...

...not trees?

I don't know why but the way you said that really made me laugh.

I try to throw in some humor. I wanted to take a screenshot of the weird black statues with a bit zoomed in on the bottom of the back to reveal "Made in Taiwan" scrawled on it, but I suck at Photoshop. It almost physically hurt not to make that be.