365 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

rak72 wrote...

That would be a nice option, but I still would like to be able to customize the hanging out gear too. For example, why would Sebastian be wearing his shiny Andraste armor in the hanged man...

I'm guessing because:

He blanked his blanks, he is no longer part of the chantry and therefore broke. This armor is all he has.

[Kail Ashton]

The predetermined outfits for the most part worked, not sure why everyone is wah wah over that, the gear in Origins had 3 diff flavors of bland & awful, playing dolly dress up with them wasn't exactly entertaining

Stay the course bioware, just toss the dogs a color option or some crap bone and they'll shut up

[rak72]

If Bioware just tosses the dogs a bone, I can guarantee you that they will not be getting my $70 again.

[FieryDove]

Kail Ashton wrote...

The predetermined outfits for the most part worked, not sure why everyone is wah wah over that, the gear in Origins had 3 diff flavors of bland & awful, playing dolly dress up with them wasn't exactly entertaining

Stay the course bioware, just toss the dogs a color option or some crap bone and they'll shut up

You are having a bad day yes?

[Serpieri Nei]

Zanallen wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

I can put any armor on Oghren and put it on Sten then put it on Zeveran, and on Leliana and so on. The only two companions I can't do that are Dog and Shale. Reason for it is very simple, the armor mesh was created for those body types. 

Your point? That doesn't change the fact that every male human has the same body, every female human shares a body, every male elf shares a body, etc etc etc.

Meanwhile, Isabela looks visably different from female Hawke and all of the other females. Anders looks thinner than male Hawke or Carver. I want the companions to each have their own unique body type and not just a reused mesh. That isn't viable if all armors can be switched around between companions.

Point is simple. It was done in origins or am I to believe that Oghren and Sten have the same body mesh as Zevran and Wynne? You are aware that many games also use more armor meshes found in DA2 and even origins combined. Heck there are games that also allow for body sliders to work with the available armor models in the game that scale proportional.  

Maybe, your right we should tell Bioware we're fine with all the cut corners/costs and they should remove all the meshes for the male/female elves, the male dwarves, and the female dwarves...Oh wait they already got rid of them and the Quanari women were nothing but a pipe dream. Oh I can't wait for Human Age, and the great variety that will follow. Yeah, sorry I could care less if Anders arm is bigger than Hawke's, or that Isabella's butt is smaller than Aveline. Player Choice will always be greater than Asthetics. 

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 06 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[jds1bio]

This is a cool thread. Here is my humble input:

If as players, we get to be in charge of leveling up the companions, their base stats, and their abilities - then we should be in charge of their offensive and defensive buffs, including armor.

However, I also think that if each character is going to have their own individual physical dimensions and character-specific animations, then I think by all means they should have their own specific looks, not necessarily broken down into torso-pants-boots-gloves-hemlet either.

One of the things that I've gotten used to with RPGs, but getting tired of, is the "hand-me-down" effect - where a party member with a similar class to my main character gets to wear my outfit once I find another outfit that is a few stats higher in armor or protection or combat buffs. And sometimes my party might look a bit silly just to have the edge in combat over certain foes. Some characters just don't really wear gloves, right?

So how can these things be reconciled?

Tie the available outfit to main quests, companion quests, and maybe secondary quests. You complete a certain stage, or a quest ends up in a certain result, you've unlocked an outfit. And perhaps there's a certain buff associated with it. The game player gets to choose among the available outfits, but they will always be tailored to the companion. Outfits are not transferable to other companions or to the player, but the further you progress in the game and the more side-quests you do, the more outfits become available for you to use. Some would be "free" or provided by the companion or the quest, and some would be made available for "purchase" at your favorite in-game retailer.

To avoid animation and costume clashes, each companion would have their own specific slots to which rings, amulets, belts, bracelets, piercings, tattoos, etc. can be utilized. The gamer gets total control over slotting these, and when the slots are filled the character's appearance will be visually updated. But these aren't always +1 or +2 or +10 rings. These can be +50, +75, major buffs that provide combat-specific protection rather than class-specific protection, but also contribute to a base armor computation. (DA2 had the right idea with some of the +328 fire-resistance-type equipment and complete-set buffs) That way what were trinkets in DA2 become much more important in DA3, and thus can be adorned with special names and descriptions and maybe even back-stories and special quests.

Achieving levels of friendship and rivalry are of course good opportunities to unlock outfits and accessories as well, much like buffs were unlocked in DA2.

Doing all this should not really interfere with a planned art style for a companion, or a player's ability to outfit their companions for both gameplay and screenshots. Plus, it adds a major dimension of discovery to the game while not requiring players to stick with hand-me-downs.

P.S. I'm not a fan of the cash-for-clothing DLCs, but I think the industry tide is against me on this one. Just seeing what's being done with Batman Arkham City makes me shake my head.

Modifié par jds1bio, 06 août 2011 - 04:34 .

[hobbit of the shire]

I felt annoyed at first that I couldn't customize the companion's armor, especially when I found some awesome equipment that could adjust their stats. However, I also hated hoarding armor in DAO and waiting for chances to level up the character so they could use said armor. Also, aesthetics and armor quality were always something to weigh around. It would be nice if companions would comment on loot picked up. They could auto-equip them upon loot and say that they liked this armor and are taking dibs on it. Armor style should change too. That I found most annoying in DA2.... that they never changed their look. But by having armor that they auto-equip or that they can choose (say, when you visit a merchant, they will interrupt), they can choose items that "suits" them, meaning they maintain their unique look. Can't really do that if we just equip them with stuff the Warden/Hawke can wear, too. In addition, if the companion is close or is a LI of the hero, then they should be able to ask for your opinion, or you can initiate a dialogue that "I don't like your outfit". Haha, imagine telling Morrigan to, "be a bit more modest, will ya?"

The ability to customize your own armor would be good, too. Start out with the base of said armor (say, Champion armor) and be able to modify a few things. Also, the "indoors" outfit needs to be customizable. I hated Hawke's kung-fu robe outfit at home. :-P

[Sylvius the Mad]

Atakuma wrote...

I'd prefer the companions be more than just dolls to play with.

The companions are always just dolls to play with.  But sometimes now they're uncooperative dolls, and that's just irritating.

[NedPepper]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'd prefer the companions be more than just dolls to play with.

The companions are always just dolls to play with.  But sometimes now they're uncooperative dolls, and that's just irritating.

The joy of Bioware is that they are not just blank dolls you play with, but fully realized characters.   In my mind, that's what makes a great RPG.   Actually, forget the term RPG, it's what makes a great story.  Again, you have your character to roleplay OFF of the other characters.  Why do you need to feel like you have to control EVERYTHING.  Do you want to dress up the NPCs as well?  The Arishok?  Bodahn and Sandal? 

Should EVERYTHING be in your control?  The story would end up losing any theme or identity. 

The only time a person has complete control is when he or she is CREATING the story.  You want that kind of power?  Write a novel. A short story.  That's what I do.  But to expect that out of video game?  Even an RPG?  It's not really feasible.

[Sylvius the Mad]

nedpepper wrote...

Should EVERYTHING be in your control?  The story would end up losing any theme or identity. 

The only time a person has complete control is when he or she is CREATING the story.  You want that kind of power?  Write a novel. A short story.  That's what I do.  But to expect that out of video game?  Even an RPG?  It's not really feasible.

the only story that matters is the one I create through my character's thoughts and actions.  That's the emergent narrative, and it's the most important part of any RPG.  The authored narrative - that's the story BioWare writes - is just a setting in which the emergent narrative takes place.

[Serpieri Nei]

nedpepper wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

I'd prefer the companions be more than just dolls to play with.

The companions are always just dolls to play with.  But sometimes now they're uncooperative dolls, and that's just irritating.

The joy of Bioware is that they are not just blank dolls you play with, but fully realized characters.   In my mind, that's what makes a great RPG.   Actually, forget the term RPG, it's what makes a great story.  Again, you have your character to roleplay OFF of the other characters.  Why do you need to feel like you have to control EVERYTHING.  Do you want to dress up the NPCs as well?  The Arishok?  Bodahn and Sandal? 

Should EVERYTHING be in your control?  The story would end up losing any theme or identity. 

The only time a person has complete control is when he or she is CREATING the story.  You want that kind of power?  Write a novel. A short story.  That's what I do.  But to expect that out of video game?  Even an RPG?  It's not really feasible.

He never said blank, that is your word. And are the NPC's now going to be part of the company? If so, then its up to the group leader to make sure they contribute and are not a hinderance. But I'm curious when is the  "Free Rights For Companions" movement going to start? And have they met the three requirements for sentience yet?

[Anarya]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

He never said blank, that is your word. And are the NPC's now going to be part of the company? If so, then its up to the group leader to make sure they contribute and are not a hinderance. But I'm curious when is the  "Free Rights For Companions" movement going to start? And have they met the three requirements for sentience yet?

That's the most impressive leap in logic I've ever seen, I think.

Modifié par Anarya, 06 août 2011 - 06:41 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Anarya wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

He never said blank, that is your word. And are the NPC's now going to be part of the company? If so, then its up to the group leader to make sure they contribute and are not a hinderance. But I'm curious when is the  "Free Rights For Companions" movement going to start? And have they met the three requirements for sentience yet?

That's the most impressive leap in logic I've ever seen, I think.

Same Logic as before and all it takes is a single step - Just like the player chooses the best gear/weapons for his character to face the different challenges in the game. The same goes for the companion, however unlike the player they are not capable of understanding basic concepts, making distinctions, or formulating thought, let alone have the capacity to even make a decision. It's either player choice or dev choice, and the devs already have more than enough control to tell the story without taking more choices away from the player.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 06 août 2011 - 06:53 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Anarya wrote...

What do you want to see? A complete rollback to Origins' system? Keep DA2's system? Some kind of third option, or do you not care at all?

To be honest I was not especially fussed about companion armours in DA2. They lived in their own corners of Kirkwall and I liked that they dressed themselves But I am not the sort of person who cares overmuch about playing dress-ups with my NPCs--some people really do, and that's cool.

That said, In DA:O, where the party was always on the move and having to scrape to find good armour considering the Wardens were fugitives, I thought it was cool that armour changed to reflect what was being worn by characters. Screenshots and video clips looked more unique between different players, or even your own characters. And I *know* people had heaps of fun putting characters in wacky clothes just for laughs, be that a barbarian helmet  or just running around wearing boots and gloves. Yes, it's silly, and possibly a girl thing, but fun is where people find it, and frankly there is more fun to be had with a dynamic system than static.

[Siven80]

Morroian wrote...

Anarya wrote...

What I'd like to see in DA3 is a compromise. Make companions' armor unique, but give us a selection of unique armors for each character and let us choose which one to equip. 

I choose this option as well.

Hmm, yes that would probably be my prefered option too.

I hate useles loot, and love companions having a unique look and armor.

If  that useless loot is changed into companion armor only unique drops, i would be happy.

[Leoroc]

Rollback to origins OR at least 5-7 outfits each character able to be obtained throughout one playthrough.

[In Exile]

Morroian wrote...

Anarya wrote...

What I'd like to see in DA3 is a compromise. Make companions' armor unique, but give us a selection of unique armors for each character and let us choose which one to equip. 

I choose this option as well.

I support this option. Lack the energy for the inevitable spirited debate sure to follow from the OP. 

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
Considering Morrigan is an apostate, the settings dictate she has a valid reason to appear as someone else throughout entire game...

Morrigain uses sex appeal and perceived vulnerability. She even has a talk about it with you in DA:O.

That you think Morrigain's character should be a certainw way != Morrigain should be a certan way. 

[Ballistic714]

I liked the fact that the party members had their own unique look and outfits in DA2. However, what I would have liked to see, is that each time you purchased/found one of those upgrades it gave the armor some visual flair. (Cooler looking shoulder pads, adding a new chainmail section, etc). Provided they still give statistical bonuses or rune slots, this would feel more like progression to me.

Secondly I hope Bioware eliminates or handles the time jumps better in DA3. But if they happen to be in the next game, after the time jumps, the outfits should be slightly different, especially if its 3 years. I liked how Aveline's outfit evolved over time, she looked cooler, and it made sense with her story... but she was pretty much the only one given this treatment.

Lastly, perhaps 2 or 3 clothing dye color options per member might be a nice touch. (Think Assassins Creed 2) I am on my fourth DA2 playthrough and have turned to using a few mods to switch up the color/look of my compainion's gear because it gets old after so many runs.

That would be a good start!

[RosaAquafire]

Okay, I feel really really strongly about this one. I really would prefer, given a choice only between DA:O and DA2, to keep DA2's system. I hated how everyone always looked so generic and identical and nobody had their own flair in DA:O. It was the worst thing about the game. I just ended up downloading a specific armour for each character and keeping them in that -- but DA2's armours were so much better than any of those.

That said, it really damn sucked to get armour for the class that you weren't playing in DA2 and not have anything to do with it.

There needs to be some sort of compromise system. I don't know, personally, I'd be more than okay with being able to equip anything on the followers and not have their outfits visually change at all. Yeah, it's a little silly, but that way you get the flexibility of armour and the benefit of customization with relatively little suspension of disbelief -- a lot of games do this, after all.

The other option is to make there be armours they can equip throughout the game that can be found and used. But then we're still getting like -- what if I don't use Aveline and I keep finding the Aveline armours and missing the Fenris armours and I'm like GOD WHY CAN'T I JUST EQUIP THIS ~*AVELINE*~ OR ~*HAWKE*~ PLATE ON FENRIS?? That suspends my disbelief a lot more than magical changing armours.

TL;DR, DA2's system had a lot of problems but please, please do not put companions back in generic armour, that would be a huge loss to DA2's far, far superiour visuals.

[Sylvianus]

Many people don"t care far superiour visuals if it is to be so limited as in DA2.

The customization was seen as one of the greatest losses and one of the greatest weakness of this game compared to DAO.

The best example visible, the symbol of an incredible simplification that was made sometimes in this game.

If Bioware just tosses the dogs a bone, I can guarantee you that they will not be getting my $70 again.

I dont't think they'll do that again. But indeed, this area will be one of the better example to see if we're on the right road for the development of DA3.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 06 août 2011 - 06:14 .

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

Morrigain uses sex appeal and perceived vulnerability. She even has a talk about it with you in DA:O.

She talks about using these to manipulate men. That tactics isn't going to serve her very well when she runs into a Meredith equivalent. Or a man who is into other men.

Since the game doesn't provide actual option to point it out to her, the player is free to RP that such conversation did, in fact, happen at some point, and Morrigan drew certain conclusions from it.

That you think Morrigain's character should be a certainw way != Morrigain should be a certan way. 

That is very much part of my point -- there's bound to be different interpretations and ideas of what decisions Morrigan could make. Accommodating them makes for a game which can appeal to more players.

[Alex Kershaw]

I preferred the system used in Origins but I don't think it's a game-breaking problem if they stay with DA2's system. I loved The Witcher and that had almost no equipment customisation. I also met a dilemna in DAO when I had a robe much better than Morrigan's default one. Do I completely ruin her look or do I use worse equipment?

My main issue is with equipment being so... boring. Everything was just 'ring' or 'sword', there were no pretty icons, there was no flavour text...

My view - the system used in Origins was perfect, minus the fact that heavy armour hindered you. If they want to slightly change that system so that only the main character can be equipped (other than rings/amulets), I guess that's OK with me.

[kuurankuiskaus]

Anarya wrote...

What I'd like to see in DA3 is a compromise. Make companions' armor unique, but give us a selection of unique armors for each character and let us choose which one to equip. 

This option, I wants.
3-5 armors per character would be nice, yes :> I don't care if they share the same stats, as long as the looks differ

[k177sh0t]

Variety

Exclusive character/class specific armour are borderline laziness