365 réponses à ce sujet

[kaimanaMM]

Anarya wrote...

What I'd like to see in DA3 is a compromise. Make companions' armor unique, but give us a selection of unique armors for each character and let us choose which one to equip. This could be done by keeping the same upgrade system that DA2 had, but having each upgrade alter the armor's appearance

I agree with this.

Companions having different looks / armor was one of the things I liked about DA2.  What I didn't like was that Varric was wearing the same coat for ten years.  (Just an example, the man does have a pretty awesome coat, so I can understand his attachment to it.)  

I like the thought that armor changes with upgrades.  In DA2 we had rune slots.  Possibly when a rune slot is added to a companion's armor we get a visual change based upon that?  I also like that romanatic partners had visual identification that they were your LI.  What I didn't like was that if you didn't romance Isabela, you never saw her outfit change.  The same goes for Merrill.  Yet, in Act 3, Anders' outfit changes regardless of romancing him.  In the LI's case, the change doesn't even have to be a large one.  Fenris' arm band and the shield on his belt were perfect.

As for lootable armor for companions, I know my husband wants that aspect back, but I personally don't.  In DA:O I never changed Morrigan out of her robes.  That was her look.  It identified her.  And yes, Wynne looked beyond silly in heavy armor.  But ultimately, Alistair in heavy armor, spirit warrior Wynne and Morrigan in heavy armor and a warrior Warden (like my husband's playthrough) everyone looked exactly the same.  It was stale and something about the individual characters was lost.

Just my rambling thoughts on the subject.

[ipgd]

There was something very wrong with Wynne having the same breasts as Morrigan.

If I had to choose between fixed uncustomizable armor and the fixed identical body types that come with full party armor, it's INDUSTRY-DESTROYING STREAMLINING AND CONSOLIZATION every time.

More customization for party armors would be nice, but it doesn't have to be in the form of "pick up gear, pass it around the party like a crusty rag". Something like the modular gun customization shown in the ME3 demo could probably be done for follower armors. Attach it to some sort of crafting system and let the player melt down useless armor for scrap material to put towards making upgrades. It wouldn't have to visually change anything, though that would also be nice.

Xewaka wrote...

I believe that if a restricted look is necessary to stablish a companion identity, then his identity wasn't strong enough to begin with.

I think you just gave millions of artists all over the world aneurysms.

Just silhouetting is an incredibly crucial part in any character design. Clothing is one way to create a distinct silhouette; posture and body type contribute just as much, albeit more difficult to tinker with given the practical and technical restrictions involved in actually varying things like height in an RPG. But having a character whose identity you cannot discern from a silhouette is like, the benchmark for failure in a design.

I'd only want full customizable armor back if every companion were as physically different as Isabela and Merrill and Varric and the armor morphed to fit. If they all have exactly the same bodies, that's... that's... GAMEPLAY/STORY SEGREGATION, OH GOD !!!!!

[Parahexavoctal]

I can appreciete a distinct visual style for companions, and also strayed from certain items for certain companions in DAO. On the other hand, I do like dressing ym companions up, especially when it adds a sense of progression - something that was almost entirely absent in DA2 sadly. Either way, I consider the ability to choose and upgrade the stats of my companions' equipment near essential, so I guess my prioritized checklist for companion equipment would be as follows:
1) The ability to customize the stats of my companions by equipping them with armor I've found, bought or fought for.
2) A sense of progression where I feel my companions' equipment improving from newbie gear to awesome artefacts, both stat wise and visually.
3) Visually distinctive styles for my companions.

One way to satisfy my preferences would be like this:
* All armor slots unlocked so you can equip your companions with armor that drops in game
* Visual representation of the armor is distinct for each companion - so that "Scoundrel's Leather Chestpiece" looks distinct for Isabella when she is wearing it and for Varric when he is wearing it.
* Visual representation also depends on item quality, meaning the Act I drop "Scoundrel's Leather Chestpiece of the Wolf" on Isabella might look like her armor does now, but when you equip her with "Brigand's Leather Chestpiece of the Wolf" from late Act II, her visual representation gets a noticeable upgrade - while staying true to her distinct style of course.
* Optionally, add alternate skins or even models for the companions' styles to visually develop with plot. A hardened Leiliana would have lass or no chantry icons/colors, romanced Merrill may be wearing a visually distincitve skarf you gave her during the romance, etc.

As for weapons.. I don't like the way we're locked in here. I think for gameplay reasons we need some flexibility in customizing our teams while playing with the companions we want, e.g. the ability to spec Merrill for healing or Fenris for tanking in case we don't want to or can't play with Anders or Aveline (like certain events late game can cause). To accomplish this, we'd need to equip Fenris with sword & board (unless the solution is rooted entirely in talents that lets him tank 2-handed for a hit in dps). Weapon choice may be a way to establish character identity (like Isabella's issues with bows), but it doesn't have to be (you can play through the entire game and never even learn of said issues if you don't have the Sebastian DLC, so it's hardly that integral a part of her character).

[Xewaka]

ipgd wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
I believe that if a restricted look is necessary to stablish a companion identity, then his identity wasn't strong enough to begin with.

I think you just gave millions of artists all over the world aneurysms.

Okay, maybe I probably picked the wrong word. I meant personality. I could point at the excellent characterization of Minsc as a very unique individual, despite his ingame model being completely generic, but that would give the wrong impression of being blinded by nostalgia.

ipgd wrote...
I'd only want full customizable armor back if
every companion were as physically different as Isabela and Merrill and Varric and the armor morphed to fit. If they all have exactly the same bodies, that's... that's... GAMEPLAY/STORY SEGREGATION, OH GOD !!!!!

Armor already varied species-wise to fit the model size in DA:O. And species and genders kept sharing the same body type in DA 2.
Also, we have different concepts of gameplay / story segregation.

Modifié par Xewaka, 04 août 2011 - 11:59 .

[Sylvianus]

The only limitations should be at the typical mage / warrior / rogue

All the armor available to warriors. (so also heavy armor for them)
All medium and light armor available to rogues
All light armor or special outfit for mages.
Normal outfit available for all .

Of course, the stats should be different, taken into account.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 août 2011 - 12:05 .

[TEWR]

I'd like us to be able to customize them as much as we want, then in their companion quest we find their best armor which would always serve as their unique look in the future if they ever appeared again.


Or alternatively, just give us (to use a random number to make a point) 30 sets of Merrill specific armor, where the 30th is the best.

And we can mix and match.

ipgd wrote...

There was something very wrong with Wynne having the same breasts as Morrigan.

Wynne isn't the only one, at least in DAO that is. All people in Thedas use exactly the same body types as the other, to some degree (fat people and other fat people, males with males, etc..). Sure it's a little jarring to see Wynne (who's probably in her 50s) have a magical bosom, but it's not like women at that age can't look great. I've seen a bunch of women in their 50s who looked great.


Not quite sure if DA2's body type models are different at all.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 août 2011 - 12:28 .

[AbounI]

An interested thread.

What i was thinking.

It would be nice to allow companions item in regard of who they are.If Lelianna is a Chantry members, just allow her to get chantry light weapons/armor/equipment.If a futur companion will be a templar specialized one, just allow him to equip heavy templar's equipment.

And going further, this concept must also obey to the class concept, from light to heavy armors, and from ranged style weapons to close combat style.

So if a companion in a ranged specialized templar, he could only wear ranged wepons and templar light/medium armor.While a templar warrior could wear templar weapon (one hand+shield, or 2 handed) with heavy templar armors.And so on...


So, I know it demands specific design in regard of faction weaponery and armory, but also from specific class.Have also to mix factions and class together .Can rogue templar exist?I think yes, when I remember in DA2 the templar fighters with rogue skills (those who disappear and backstab you).

And if people demands more choice, perhaps the players could finally choose what will be each specialization for each companion, through personnal quest.

Finally, we could get an improved choices of equipment while it keeps the personnal concept for more identity

Modifié par AbounI, 04 août 2011 - 12:23 .

[ipgd]

Xewaka wrote...

Okay, maybe I probably picked the wrong word. I meant personality. I could point at the excellent characterization of Minsc as a very unique individual, despite his ingame model being completely generic, but that would give the wrong impression of being blinded by nostalgia.

Personality design and visual character design are related but not entirely dependant on each other.

You can have a very well written character who is simultaneously a very poorly designed character. Like, say, all of the characters in DAO (which is not so much a failure on the part of the artists as it is the engine that demands they be basically physically identical. DA2 went a long way with uniquely modeled faces, as well).

Armor already varied species-wise to fit the model size in DA:O.

And have you seen what they had to do to make that work?



ANATOMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

In DA2, a) elves and dwarves both have individually designed models and animations, they're the only characters in the party with them. Even among the humans, who share the same basic rig, they're differentiated from other humans through visual notation (as Isabela is, who doesn't really have breasts or thighs any larger than f!Hawke, though the design of her armor and body makes it look like she does), posture (Aveline, once she's out of her prologue suit), actual physical changes to the model (Anders, who has much thinner arms than the other male characters), or silhouette changes through armor (Sebastian). The party works around the technological restrictions to make a cast that is, for the most part (Bethany and Carver excepted), visually distinct within the party.

Meanwhile, Morrigan, Leliana and Wynne have literally the same exact bodies. Perhaps DAO would not have had as much of a problem if it had a smaller party and body repeats within the party couldn't actually occur (i.e. Morrigan and Alistair were the only human party members, and the anatomy of the elves, dwarves and qunari wasn't a freakishly scaled dog's breakfast).

Xewaka wrote...

Also, we have different concepts of gameplay / story segregation.

Well, one can assume that they aren't actually supposed to be physically indentical. But they are, for gameplay purposes.

Modifié par ipgd, 04 août 2011 - 12:29 .

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

I'd only want full customizable armor back if every companion were as physically different as Isabela and Merrill and Varric and the armor morphed to fit. If they all have exactly the same bodies, that's... that's... GAMEPLAY/STORY SEGREGATION, OH GOD !!!!!

people obsess over omg characters must be physically different so extensively i can tell immediately ... way too much.

[TEWR]

And that is why I never played a Dwarf Female in Origins.

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

And have you seen what they had to do to make that work?



ANATOMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Don't mistake ineptitude for necessity.

[Kekkis]

Something practical instead of awesome boobs, hairstyle or chesthair. Freetime they can use whatever they want, but in combat, that uses swords, maces, axes, arrows and fireballs as main weapons they should use something practical. Fanservice and marketing has gone too far with this.

[ipgd]

tmp7704 wrote...

people obsess over omg characters must be physically different so extensively i can tell immediately ... way too much.

That's... pretty much basic character design. It is incredibly important. As an art****, I sort of have to obsess over it.

Not sure what those images are supposed to prove, though? People do all look very different in real life, and American comics are notoriously bad with the whole "all of my female characters look like completely identical big ****** porn stars with blow up doll faces" bad design thing in particular.

tmp7704 wrote...

Don't mistake ineptitude for necessity.

As I said:

which is not so much a failure on the part of the artists as it is the engine that demands they be basically physically identical.

[willholt]

My first, and probably my only post here ... as this is an issue of great importance to me.

Why does it have to be 'either, or' ... one, or the other?

Why can't companions have a series of armours/costimes unique to them, AND also be able to change their costumes at will? ... Be able to use any armour you find in game for any companion, the only restriction being class.?

That way, those who like unique looks to the companions, and/or who hate having to fuss over equipping them get their wish.... and those (like myself) who like to change their companion armour get to do their thing to.

I almost get the impression that those who like the new (fixed look) system are affronted at the thought of others playing the game in a different way to them. Otherwise why limit people's choices?

I bought DA 2 on release. started to play it, and after a few hours gave up totally frustrated with the looting/companion armour system. Finding all that cool armour that basically said 'Restriction Hawke', and the inability to use it for any of your companions annoyed the hell out of me. So much so that I threw the game into a drawer, and there it languished until I recently discovered a very cool 'Equip Your Companions in DA2' mod.

I went on to play the game, enjoyed it, and even bought Legacy on release... So Bioware have modders to thank for at least one converted ex-fan, and one sale of Legacy DLC (toolset please? ... lol)

Point is, don't reduce options ... give the player options. If that means the player ends up doing things with the party that other players (and some developers) disapprove of... well, it's a game, they paid for it, let them enjoy it in their own way.

OPTIONS... Various unique (maybe upgradeable) armours for each companion, AND the ability to equip them with any/all armour found in game (class restrictions being the only factor).


Anyway... that's what I think .

[alex90c]

I'd prefer Origins style inventory, but if not then a Mass Effect 2 one would do I suppose (as long as you don't give every female character in DA3 a catsuit )

Modifié par alex90c, 04 août 2011 - 12:47 .

[FieryDove]

People like variety. If many people want 12-30 custom armor’s for each companion, we might as well open up all armors (That they can wear stat wise) and let people choose.

I didn’t have anyone looking the same in DAO. Maybe I’m weird.

There is also practical, Isabela’s outfit was fine hanging out (literally) in the hanged man, but for combat I would put at least leather on her, maybe even a medium or heavy type armor since she was in close quarters. Fenris/Aveline would get some type of massive armor most likely since they are warriors.

Choices are good, limited/no choices = bad. imho

[TEWR]

FieryDove wrote...

There is also practical, Isabela’s outfit was fine hanging out (literally) in the hanged man, but for combat I would put at least leather on her, maybe even a medium or heavy type armor since she was in close quarters. Fenris/Aveline would get some type of massive armor most likely since they are warriors.

Well... if you get her to max friendship (and I'm assuming max rivalry) and have sex with her, she gains a bit of leather on her attire.

Happened to me in Act 2.

[Kekkis]

willholt wrote...


Why can't companions have a series of armours/costimes unique to them, AND also be able to change their costumes at will? ... Be able to use any armour you find in game for any companion, the only restriction being class.?
.

Race could work too. A Dwarf in a Qunari breastplate could look funny anyways. So you could offer items you find to your companions and if their class, build and race will fit and it is better than their old armor they will accept it.

They will have their own minds, but they are not stupid.

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

That's... pretty much basic character design. It is incredibly important. As an art****, I sort of have to obsess over it.

It's the basic part of design which the comics --both american and foreign-- were able to pretty much ignore -- as large part of their cast have effectively one and the same body type dressed in different colours and accessories. It is also part of design which is largely absent in movies, where they similarly settle on generic handsome for the most part (unless it's a comedy or the character's physical shape is part of the focus)

In other words, maybe it's not as incredibly important as you were taught to believe.

As I said:

which is not so much a failure on the part of the artists as it is the engine that demands they be basically physically identical.

That was answer in context of "And have you seen what they had to do to make that work?" where you were seemingly blaming poor anatomy of the character on the fact the game had separate models of the armour for different combinations of species/gender. Which is simply false, as it's perfectly possible to avoid these anatomy errors even in DAO. Meaning yes, such errors are a failure on the part of the artists.

Modifié par tmp7704, 04 août 2011 - 01:01 .

[FieryDove]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well... if you get her to max friendship (and I'm assuming max rivalry) and have sex with her, she gains a bit of leather on her attire.

Happened to me in Act 2.

Cough...I need more coffee.

[Saintthanksgiving]

I said this on another thread discussing loot items.

Many people thought constantly swapping items and armor was tedious. I think they have a valid point. Weighing the differences between items that are barely different can be time consuming and distracting.

More than that, outside of mods there is no way to keep the "look" that you might like without sacrificing performance.

Instead, why not try a system where thee player chooses the appearence of his character, and then ADDS bonuses and stats through looted items or purchased upgrades.

Have an armorer build the armor using template choices for each section of the body, and then let the player upgrade that armor as the story moves along. This will prevent everyone from looking generic, AND allow for specific styles.

If Character integrity is a concern, limit the choices for companions to reflect their specific character.... for example

Limit isabella to armor choices that would be realistic for a pirate. No heavy plate, No huge swords etc...

The same syste, would work for weapons, let the PC design his weapon and upgrade it as time goes on. Having a personal weapon deepens the RP expiereince and opens up all kinds of doors for in-game lore. YOU could create a weapon that a different PC could find in a later sequel. Think about that... content carryover between sequels.

Your welcome.

[Teddie Sage]

Maybe more unlockable costumes to change their appearances? I know this sounds JRPG-ish, but at least, we wouldn't be forced to watch them in their original clothes all the time.

[AbounI]

AbounI wrote...

An interested thread.

What i was thinking.

It would be nice to allow companions item in regard of who they are.If Lelianna is a Chantry members, just allow her to get chantry light weapons/armor/equipment.If a futur companion will be a templar specialized one, just allow him to equip heavy templar's equipment.

And going further, this concept must also obey to the class concept, from light to heavy armors, and from ranged style weapons to close combat style.

So if a companion in a ranged specialized templar, he could only wear ranged wepons and templar light/medium armor.While a templar warrior could wear templar weapon (one hand+shield, or 2 handed) with heavy templar armors.And so on...


So, I know it demands specific design in regard of faction weaponery and armory, but also from specific class.Have also to mix factions and class together .Can rogue templar exist?I think yes, when I remember in DA2 the templar fighters with rogue skills (those who disappear and backstab you).

And if people demands more choice, perhaps the players could finally choose what will be each specialization for each companion, through personnal quest.

Finally, we could get an improved choices of equipment while it keeps the personnal concept for more identity

Just launched a discuss about his question with friends at RPGF.I will bring back any answer.Easier for me to discuss in my native language.

Modifié par AbounI, 04 août 2011 - 01:21 .

[Sylvianus]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...
If Character integrity is a concern, limit the choices for companions to reflect their specific character.... for example

This reason is invalid from the moment it is decided that they are all bi. Their integrity is already in the damn air.
And Dragon Age that is a game where we control a team, it's totally related and necessary.

We choose their points, their evolutions, we give them orders, we put them their items. So it is clear that we will arm them , we  will choose for them their armor.

A default look can be chosen, take it. Do not force the others, and let them change. Their raison is invalid about unique look.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 août 2011 - 01:17 .