405 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

@LadyBri I noticed that too (ps3 as well). Perhaps Carver just have a better constitution than Bethany?

[Alys555]

There's an extremly high chance this has already been said. But I can't be arsed to read all the posts:
The problem, when it comes to ambient storytelling is that, during combat, too much is happening.

I mean between the sound of fighting, the music, hawke 's batle cries, party members' battle cries, enemies' battle cries, Hawke asking for help, party members asking for help, enemies asking for help, hawke yelling when a companion dies, companion talking when hawke or companions die, companions telling when they are low on mana/stamine, Hawke saying s/he's low on mana/stamina and the talking after someone get's ressurected (do they also talk when they kill something?) ALOT is happening during combat. It is rather insane.
And also a shame because alot of combat talking can't be heard over all the yelling and slashing.

Now to be fair: I do think you did well in giving sound with combat purpose priority. As it is ALOT easier to hear when someone is about to die or low on mana/stamina. But then again, how many times have we all heard varric saying that he killed another one? And we can hardly say that has combat purose .

So altough the amount of talking during combat is amazing it just never comes to it's right because of the insane amount of other audio footage also playing during combat.
Maybe less is more in this case? It could certainly save you money on voice acting (if only a little )

[Foolsfolly]

The problem, when it comes to ambient storytelling is that, during combat, too much is happening.

I only felt this way during the Meredith fight. There is some dialogue in the parts where she freezes the battlefield that I still haven't really heard because of all the other noise on top of that. Since it's an interruption of gameplay I think I'd have preferred cutscenes over tiny text bubble over her head all the way across the battlefield.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I haven't played the game in a while now, but cutscene and storytelling-wise there is one annoying thing that stands out for me during the endgame: After arriving at the Gallows, there is this one cutscene in which Orsino tries to come to a compromise with Meredith (who rejects it, of course), after which the cutscene in which the faction leader you sided with holds a speech before his/her people.

What I didn't like about this is that you only get to see just that one speech, whereas both are pretty defining moments of the characters having them (not to mention crowning moments of awesome for the both of them). I feel like the tone for the final battle would be better if the cutscene order there was as follows: Gallows Arrival > Enemy Faction Speech > Friendly Faction Speech.

I truly believe if a "fix" for this were to be included with a future patch, the entire endgame would benefit from it.

[VampOrchid]

I hate the lack of 'touch'. Like if someone is upset you can't have the option to hug them. Or if someone is happy with you why can't they put there hands on your shoulders...something along those lines.

Also, when my Hawke talks to someone and she's pissed, I wish it sounded that way.

[nightscrawl]

Yuqi wrote...

The worst..cinamatic..is swhen his/her mother dies, hardly any emotion at all. That was his/her motherI was like WTH..That is the most imersive breaking cutscene in the whole game.

With male and female Hawke I didn't really get a feeling of strong emotions.

The mother death was especially frustrating. Yes, she does get an upset look on her face, but that's pretty much it. I really wanted her to cry, or at least sound like she was crying (or choked up). When she goes to talk to Aveline and says, "My mother's dead. My heart's broken;" it just sounds like she is an android standing there. If the scene was designed to elicit an emotional response from the player, it succeeded, but not in a good way. You might say that she was more reserved during the actual event because she is still in shock, or there are too many people around, or something along those lines. However, we then have a later scene where the LI comes to comfort and she is still rather apathetic.

The other emotional scene I have a hard time with is in Act 3 when Fenris is basically saying he wants to be with Hawke and asks for forgiveness for leaving. Gideon Emery is carrying that entire scene on his acting, with little to no help from Hawke. (I'm not blaming Jo Wyatt here btw, there are directors after all.) In fact, I would say that the overall emotional responsiveness from all companions was wonderful, just not with either gender of Hawke.

Someone above mentioned the viewpoints throughout Legacy. I did think those were done very well and would like more of those in the future. It reminded me of a scene in the Deep Roads during DAO. Just before you meet up with the Legion of the Dead there is a small cutscene (no dialogue) where you see the vast darkspawn horde in a crevasse below and the Archdemon flies by. You see your party first leaning over the edge to look and then stepping back, startled the the dragon. It was very exiting, showed my character doing something, and showed the vastness of the army I'm supposed to face later on in the game.

I think if those Legacy viewpoints were done in any other way (ie not voluntary) that it would be too sudden and jarring: walking along and "*YANK*, here is something we want you to see, WATCH IT!"

[Demx]

DA2

Honestly I never liked frame narrative, it didn't feel immerse enough for me. It's a nice way to throw in additional stories after the game has been made, but that is about it. I don't know, maybe seeing some scenes while Varric is giving a brief narrative over what happened during those years we skipped might have helped. I would have also liked to have seen the Hawke I created when being introduced to the character instead of the default face as well.

There was one cut-scene that really bugged me at very beginning of the game; killing Wesley. It looked like we were taking a dagger to stab him in the chest through his armor. (This part bugged me the most) Then afterwards no blood or hole in his chest plate.

I did like the subtlety used to show that your brother/sister was being affected by the taint when you were looking for Sandal. But their death scene in the deep road felt like it was cut short. I wanted to have some type of control here. For Bethany I wanted to hug her and tell her something sweet before stabbing her. For Carver I wanted to be a little witty before killing him. Seeing yourself stabbing your sibling would have added to the emotion of the scene as well.

Speaking of family deaths, the scene used for the commercial where Hawke fell to his knee screaming should have been used after the battle with the first ogre. That looked like Hawke really cared about his sibling. Instead we get Hawke flinching like a dog when mother is yelling at him.

The cut scene where we see Meredith swinging around her sword and jumping super high. It looked liked a wannabe star wars scene with light saber sound effects and how over the top that jump was. And isn't handling raw lyrium very dangerous, especially for anyone that isn't a dwarf? Wouldn't Meredith know this before turning it into a weapon? Considering how much information she has on mages and all.

Legacy

Narration was used simply as a tool to start and end the story nothing can really be said since this is an add on to DA2.

Though the actual cut scenes were few in number; they did give the somewhat illusion that we were driving the plot along. Even if we simply were picking path a or path b that would shortly join up later on. Or just switching the skin of the person that Corypheus would slip into. I would have liked to have seen a scene that explain how he did that. Perhaps after Hawke performs the kill blow, which was cool, Hawke walks away and we see what Corypheus does to escape.

I did find it odd that off all places, Varric knew someone that was working against you. And that Varric's ancestor was there as well. It was kind of a cheap way to bring some tension and emotion into the story. Not to mention derailed from the point of who the DLC was suppose to be about. It wasn't a large derailment but it still happened.

Modifié par Siradix, 10 octobre 2011 - 05:43 .

[Dave of Canada]

 Vague MOTA spoilers!

Suffered the case of Hawke not doing something! Woe is me, woe! Woe!

Sort of writing related, I asked for the [FINAL OBJECT] and my Hawke decideded to shrug and let [PERSON] walk away with it. Had my Hawke attempted to stop [PERSON] and claim the [FINAL OBJECT], only to fail? Would've been in-character.

My Hawke simply standing there staring? No, far from it! Hawke, the fearsome Qunari slayer and person who assisted Petrice would've rather died than let the Heathens claim that [FINAL OBJECT].

Would've prefered allowing [FABULOUS BEARD MAN] to keep it, though that's writing's domain.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 octobre 2011 - 10:30 .

[Morroian]

nightscrawl wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

The worst..cinamatic..is swhen his/her mother dies, hardly any emotion at all. That was his/her motherI was like WTH..That is the most imersive breaking cutscene in the whole game.

With male and female Hawke I didn't really get a feeling of strong emotions.

The mother death was especially frustrating. Yes, she does get an upset look on her face, but that's pretty much it. I really wanted her to cry, or at least sound like she was crying (or choked up). 

And what about those who want to role play a Hawke who isn't broken up? IMHO they took it as far as they could in the cinematics and dialogue while still letting the player impose something close to the reaction they want to role play. 

[CuriousArtemis]

1) Moments where you felt like control was taken away from you by the cinematics. Were there moments where you felt 'hey, that's not something my Hawke would ever do!' that were not writing related. I realize this can be a bit odd of a concept to grasp, so let me reiterate - times where, while the lines and intent of the writing wasn't necessarily a problem, but in the context of the scene your character did something or had a particular expression that just took you out of the moment?

This is about MOTA.

Hawke tends to make this funny wrinkly nose face when he hears or sees something he dislikes.  It's quite funny and cute.  I'm sure fem!Hawke does it, too.  What bothered me, however, was when he makes the crinkly nose face in MOTA when Tallis tells him he's going to have to romance the duke's son.

For a straight Hawke, that's fine, what straight dude wants to romance another dude?!

But my M!Hawke was in a relationship with Fenris, so the disgusted face Hawke made when Tallis made her little suggestion was just kind of ... odd.  After all, it isn't as if the duke's son is ugly.  He's not a bad looking guy.  

I think, depending on Hawke's love interest, that facial expression should have changed.  Hawke involved with Merrill or Isabela: crinkle face/disgust.  Hawke involved with Anders or Fenris: no crinkle face, maybe an eyeroll??  If that's even possible.

I would be fine with default!Hawke (no romance yet) being straight/making crinkle face.

Hey, I know it is a tiny thing, but you asked!  So that's my answer  It really did take me out of the game.  I was very disappointed by that scene.

[John Epler]

Specific to that line - the expression I was going for was less dislike as it was 'resigned incredulity'. Less to do with romancing the Duke's son (the player makes that face whether male or female) and more to do with Tallis' plan changing. Yet again. For the fourth time.

But I can understand why someone might get the other impression, and I'm sorry it came across that way!

[Dhiro]

motomotogirl wrote...

1) Moments where you felt like control was taken away from you by the cinematics. Were there moments where you felt 'hey, that's not something my Hawke would ever do!' that were not writing related. I realize this can be a bit odd of a concept to grasp, so let me reiterate - times where, while the lines and intent of the writing wasn't necessarily a problem, but in the context of the scene your character did something or had a particular expression that just took you out of the moment?

This is about MOTA.

Hawke tends to make this funny wrinkly nose face when he hears or sees something he dislikes.  It's quite funny and cute.  I'm sure fem!Hawke does it, too.  What bothered me, however, was when he makes the crinkly nose face in MOTA when Tallis tells him he's going to have to romance the duke's son.

For a straight Hawke, that's fine, what straight dude wants to romance another dude?!

But my M!Hawke was in a relationship with Fenris, so the disgusted face Hawke made when Tallis made her little suggestion was just kind of ... odd.  After all, it isn't as if the duke's son is ugly.  He's not a bad looking guy.  

I think, depending on Hawke's love interest, that facial expression should have changed.  Hawke involved with Merrill or Isabela: crinkle face/disgust.  Hawke involved with Anders or Fenris: no crinkle face, maybe an eyeroll??  If that's even possible.

I would be fine with default!Hawke (no romance yet) being straight/making crinkle face.

Hey, I know it is a tiny thing, but you asked!  So that's my answer  It really did take me out of the game.  I was very disappointed by that scene.

All my Hawkes are gay, and the idea of having to seduce a spoiled brat while their love interest is away is very disgusting for them.

[CuriousArtemis]

JohnEpler wrote...

Specific to that line - the expression I was going for was less dislike as it was 'resigned incredulity'. Less to do with romancing the Duke's son (the player makes that face whether male or female) and more to do with Tallis' plan changing. Yet again. For the fourth time.

But I can understand why someone might get the other impression, and I'm sorry it came across that way!

Thanks for clearing it up!  I'm glad it was mostly irritation/incredulity over Tallis' inepitude at carrying out a plan lol and that I was just reading too much into the scene.  Really, I'm very happy now  Plus Hawke's crinkly face is one of my favorite things about him.

Dhiro wrote...

All my Hawkes are gay, and the idea of having to seduce a spoiled brat while their love interest is away is very disgusting for them. 

Haha I get you, I get you  That makes sense, too.  

(first time multi-quoting; hope I did it right!)

[Brockololly]

Minor thing I've noticed thus far- during MotA during the party scene, Hawke goes into Cutscene World discussing something with certain Bann. And the Arlessa this certain Bann is with is sitting down- she then stands up and tells the Bann to come with her. And they look as if they're walking away.

Yet when you switch back to Gameplay World, this certain lady is glued back on the bench sitting down and this Bann is glued to the ground in the same spot as before.

I don't know if its even in the purview of cinematic design, but is there any reason you couldn't have the characters move around the party a little bit and see them mingle with the other guests? Or see the servers moving about?

[DreamerM]

All of the characters have incredible voice-acting. I wished the animations were as unique. Everybody walks the same, runs the same, even has the same body build. They talk, they wave their hands back and forth and that's it. I want their physicality to match how expressive their voices were. This wooden "stand and talk" animation was so bad in DA:O that I would actually look away from the screen just so I woudn't be destracted by being annoyed by that.

Bioware, hire some character animators please.... I swear they're useful for things besides combat moves.

[Firewolf99]

Here's the funny thing: in RPG games, where character and story is very important, often voice acting can seem worse than in, say, some shooters (cough Modern Warfare Cough). Maybe It's just the range of emotions that need to be shown, but danggit, when Bethany gets kidnapped by the Bloodmages and Templars, I want my Hawke to get nproerly angry!!

As a lot of people have said, emotions from some characters are... sometimes lacking. Merril's reaction when Pol died was really good: why couldn't Hawke's reaction when his mother died be the same?

[Lilunebrium]

The only problem with cinematics I can think of, is in line with what Shadow of Light Dragon wrote;

Fenris Romance - It makes more sense for the scenario when Fenris pins Hawke to the wall first, but I found it immersion-breaking for my Hawke to pin Fenris without that precursor.

This is the only moment where I felt control was taken away from me, resulting in the PC doing something I would normally not have them do. Especially so when it's only Hawke who does the pinning. In the scene where Fenris initiates it, I probably would have liked it more if Hawke hadn't returned the favour. It made me cringe - however, considering how this is probably a matter of personal preference, it hasn't bothered me too much.

[FedericoV]

Just one question to mr. Epler about cinematic storytelling. ME2 uses QTE very smartly during cutscene and I think that it's a step in the right direction to make the player feel more active during cinematic passages and creates some sort of cinematic roleplaying. Have you ever considered that system for the DA franchise?

[snackrat]

As far as cinematics go, the only thing I find irksome is Lady Hawke's man stride. I understand that for simplicity's sake the cinematic design team would want to apply the same animations to the characters regardless, but it was especially jarring with Mark of the Assassin to see Tallis sashay along while Lady Hawke powerfully strode with her legs apart as though to make room for parts she does not have (or in DAO, my petite elven woman matching Duncan in step). Not to mention given the setting, I'd have thought it appropriate that formal wear for Lady Hawke be a dress; she was the only woman wearing breeches (though that's more art/costume design than cinematics). Especially considering how outside of cinematics Lady Hawke swings her hips so much she should be knocking over passers-by.

EDIT (with mild spoilers): Gah, I thought the man-walk was bad. While in the cell, Hawke sits like a man. Also thought of something that isn't purly animation related - my blood mage Hawke Ticia is about as bloodthirsty a character as the story will allow. Why does she act all 'I should kill you, but let me proveed to sit here and do nothing'? She HELPS the final villian onto their demise with a hard stomp (when wanting to leave without a confrontation at all no less) but just let's Tallis flounce away without even attempting an attack despite all the times she's been used? Can't we at least make failed attempts rather than just mysteriously forgiving her because she's 'pretty'?

Modifié par Karsciyin, 18 octobre 2011 - 01:47 .

[Beerfish]

Dave of Canada wrote...

 Vague MOTA spoilers!

Suffered the case of Hawke not doing something! Woe is me, woe! Woe!

Sort of writing related, I asked for the [FINAL OBJECT] and my Hawke decideded to shrug and let [PERSON] walk away with it. Had my Hawke attempted to stop [PERSON] and claim the [FINAL OBJECT], only to fail? Would've been in-character.

My Hawke simply standing there staring? No, far from it! Hawke, the fearsome Qunari slayer and person who assisted Petrice would've rather died than let the Heathens claim that [FINAL OBJECT].

Would've prefered allowing [FABULOUS BEARD MAN] to keep it, though that's writing's domain.

This I agree with this whole heartedly.  I will have to do a run thrpugh where Hawke decides to 'leave' rather than 'help' and see if that satisfies me.

[FedericoV]

I believe that in terms of visual storytelling the DA franchise could improve a lot using more moments of "sense of wonder". First thing first, what is that "sense of wonder"? I'll copy a very good definition I've found on wikipedia: "a feeling of awakening or awe triggered by an expansion of one’s awareness of what is possible or by confrontation with the vastness of space and time".

The greatest authot of the fantasy genre (Tolkien, Martin, Zelazny etc.) teaches us that the setting is the most important charachter. One of the most recurring criticism to DA:O was that it looked generic and that was a fair criticism (at least, after Ostagar). DA2 tried very hard to look more unique but to achieve that goal it finished to look even more flat. Everything looked too clean, too new, too modern.

Thedas is full of interesting lore, but in DA2 you can only explore it reading the codex entries. The visuals of the game does not tell the story of the world. The world does not speaks about his history. Having more moments of "sense of wonder" could give more depth to the setting and the whole story without returning to the generic feeling of DA:O (since the lore of the setting is rich and interesting).

While science fiction evokes the wonder with the infinity of space, a fantasy setting should try to evoke it with the infinity of time, with a sense of loss and a romantic atmosphere (I mean romantic in the literary term) filled with magic.

I don't know: the ruin of a fallen castle at dusk in the background and things like that... I'm not an artist but I suppose that Mr. Epler understands what I'm talking about. In that sense, the Ostagar sequence at the beginning of DA:O with the ruins and the beautifull misty landscape talked about the decadence of the empire and its ultimate loss without the need of a single word: it's still the most evoking and beautifull area developed for the DA franchise.

Some reference on visual storytelling and sense of wonder in fantasy literature and art: John Howe's illustration of the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, Tyrion's voyage on the Rhoyne in George Martin's A Dance with Dragons, T.H, White's Merlin in "The Once and Future King". I could go on forever: I hope that I made my point.

Modifié par FedericoV, 17 octobre 2011 - 06:29 .

[The Sapien]

I know I'm repeating what others have said, so see this as endorsing...
Cinematics that are over the top and exaggerated when compared to the gameplay or combat really make it hard to stay immersed in the game. Like when Tallis first appears in the latest DLC, the cutscene was kind of kewl anime but didn't match what immediately followed. It would had been more smooth to see her take out one enemy by herself, maybe two, but instead she made us all look bad, then couldn't keep it up herself. I enjoy playing on the harder settings, so the cinematics often seem way over the top and not true to gameplay. I'm not asking for "realism", just consistency.

[LazyDaisy]

I would like to see more of those exceptional moments in the conversations and cutscenes where you get it exactly right. There are a few moments that come immediately to mind: 1) In the Fenris version of Questioning Beliefs when he is talking about killing the fog warriors – right as he says “He ordered me to kill them. So I did” he does a tic to his left on “so I did” that is absolutely believable and is my favorite in game moment. A perfect melding of writing and cinematics. Bravo to whoever did that scene!!. 2) when Hawke first meets and questions Fenris about it must be about more than just recovery of lost property and he rolls his eyes to the left and then scowls as he delivers “namely myself”. Just an excellent use of animations. And just to put a non-Fenris one in here:  3) in the deep roads when Hawke finds Sandal … the camera is nice and tight and then all of a sudden goes wide to reveal the frozen ogre on the “and that” line … very funny. That whole mini-scene has wonderful pacing and camera angles.  There is real strength in your/BW’s ability to tell a story with cinematics and pacing … please don’t lose that.


My ambient wish list? Weather is a definite, as is a sentient and active population that suits where they live. At present, though the dialogue changes, people move and behave exactly the same whether they are in Hightown or Darktown. 


In Darktown, it would be wonderful if the residents looked desperate, shoulders slumped, peeking around corners to see who approaches, a random attack in an alley that Hawke arrives too late at to stop (if your Hawke cares of course) – both the attacker and the victim running from your approach, a hush when your party walks past.  Residents standing around barrels of fire, warming themselves and sharing their meagre meals.


In Lowtown, someone actually haggling with a merchant. Urchins and dogs running in the streets. Most of the refugees are in Lowtown and Darktown, flyers are present there and in the docks but we never see any ambient outright violence or deliberate refusal of service – no snubbing or distrust of the newcomers.  And though it has been said multiple times, it would be nice to have a crowded alienage and market.


In the Docks … as a sailor myself … I would like to see and hear sails and cargo moving on and off ships. There is a seedy vibrancy and sense of adventure at sea ports that is missing in the game. People of different origin, dress and language. The cry of gulls (and dodging their little gifts from the sky).  The bells calling a change in watch. Cats. Lots of cats and rats. Drunken gangs of sailors wandering past, singing a sea shanty on their way to the pub, guards keeping an eye on said sailors … ahh, good times … but I digress. 


Hightown. Fewer night time attacks. There are more guards in Hightown than anywhere else in Kirkwall. If they are truly that incompetent, Aveline should be out of a job. Change of dress for nobles. Gossips. Cutpurses in the market and the Merchants Guild.


Outside Kirkwall: critters.  We need critters. Birds, deer, halla, maybe a bunny or two? 


This is starting to become a wall of text so just a couple more brief observations. Templars should actually want to catch a Hawke if they are a mage.  Templars shouldn’t be chatting in the gallows, they should be patrolling Kirkwall, interrogating in every market area, actively searching for mages; and they should catch one occasionally and drag them off to the gallows. There should be a consequence to being a mage – and even more if the player chooses the blood mage spec – your own party doesn’t even acknowledge it when you stick your staff through your stomach. I find that very odd and immersion breaking. I end up having to do a strange mechanic and only use blood magic if Fenris is the only one there (since he figures that all mages will eventually use blood magic anyway) or if mage-Hawke is travelling alone.

Anyway, love DA2 and adore most of the cinematics. 

Modifié par LazyDaisy, 18 octobre 2011 - 10:11 .

[The Sapien]

Lazydaisy has excellent suggestions, tho it's understandable how hard that would be on our hardware, but if you could find a way, that would be magnificent, all she said.

I'm in agreement with those who would like to see this department of Bioware compensate for some of the bad from the writers, like when Hawk is told he won't be given a chance to kill so-and-so who is standing right there with just one guard or can't have a certain list of names from someone also standing right there. You probably spend a lot of time already doing stuff like this for us and can't save all the bad writing elements, so I do appreciate all those ones we didn't notice.

My own wish: How to solve the problem of weapons appearing and disappearing and apostates walking around with staffs somehow not noticed by templars? LOL, maybe give leather wrapped packs and walking sticks to travelers? I dunno, anyone have a better suggestion?

[LazyDaisy]

The Sapien wrote...

My own wish: ...apostates walking around with staffs somehow not noticed by templars? LOL, maybe give leather wrapped packs and walking sticks to travelers? I dunno, anyone have a better suggestion?

Work around - check out Sunnie's Spear of Mutiny ... it'a staff that looks like a spear.  And it levels.  Very nice custom piece of kit.   http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=2607

Cheers!

Daisy