405 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

That's why I said the Eluvians, and not Merrill's Eluvian.

[abnocte]

frostajulie wrote...

In regards to 1- Sebastien just walks away after threatening Anders and threatening to level Kirkwall.  My mage who romanced Anders would have fried that guy on the spot rather than let him live.  My rogue who did everything for her sister would have knifed him in the throat.  No hawke who ever spares Anders wouyld just allow Sebastien to walk away.  I should have been able to kill him or been interrupted in a cutscene that allowed him to get away if he needs to survive for future story reasons but No hawke of mine would ever spare him, not after that threat.

Mother Petrice should not have survived our 2nd encounter in act 1.  It would have been better if we returned to an empty building than to have a cutscene that allows her to walk away without me trying to murder knife her.  Only the most diplomatic Hawkes would allow her to live.

And my biggest problem was Bethany getting hauled off to the circle.  Hawke would never have allowed it she would have died before she let it happen as it is she would never spend 3 years getting on with her life unless it was a 3 year plan to free her sister.  These were areas where I was railroaded by the story.  Knock me out have the templars beat me down but don't have me just stand there and watch them haul away whats left of my siblings.  Bethany was my Hawkes to protect and after she was through with the templars they would never have a need to worry about abominations, Hawkes berserker rage would have ended them.

*snip*

I agree with this.
Even if the outcome of those events is set in stone ( Sebastian walking away, Bethany being taken to the circle ), allowing the player to choose how we want to roleplay "our Hawke" in those situations would have been nice.

About ambient storytelling, I don't remember any "ambient NPC" in the whole Kirkwall making comments about the Qunari, or about templars being more severe with the mages ( thought I'm not sure that is something your average peasant would know about ) and worrying about the possibility of mages striking back. Even worse, not even in the Hanged Man you can hear anything about the conflicts DA2 is about.

Modifié par abnocte, 01 décembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[ColGali]

jlb524 wrote...

This will be addressed in upcoming DA2 DLC?

Yes? PLZ!!

Hope it will be addressed in DA3... Not another DLC.

[Bayz]

[quote]FaeQueenCory wrote...
Now all we need is a Merrill-specific DLC.[/quote]Or... the "act 4" expansion!!!
But it will probably just be DLC...

[/quote]

^
This. I know the history is over. I don't care, Hawke is still not level 35

Modifié par Bayz, 17 décembre 2011 - 11:28 .

[Heimdall]

Well, Legacy had extra personal stuff for Bethany/Carver and Anders.  Mark of the Assassin had extra stuff for Isabella and Aveline(Frustratingly uninformative ).

So we're due something with extra stuff for Merril and Fenris, and I'm sure they can work something, something Tervinter in there for Fenris if it's about Eluvians.

[Riknas]

Alright, you know what. I need to come in to mention this, because it keeps popping into my head and forget to mention it.

Spoilers.

Mark Of The Assassin. It was pretty good, if a bit more off the wall in its sense of humor. When we got near the end of the DLC when I had to choose between staying with Tallis or walking out on her, I was stunned at the amount of freedom Bioware gave us, allowing us to leave the plot like that, I was ready to post about how it's sense of choice beat down Legacy's railroaded choices and that of the main game hands down.

I had to try it, and I actually felt guilty as I nearly exited and Tallis calls out to me before I left.

And then I meet back up with her in less than an hour and I ram my head against the wall in frustration. I mean, we've talked about illusion of choice, but come on. You waved out the illusion REALLY fast that time, and we were talking about a pretty big illusion just then. I didn't even care at all that by that point with Tallis just taking the scroll and leaving because, well, it was obvious it was out of our hands. If I couldn't walk away from the quest, obviously I would not be able to handle such a big plot point.

Bah humbug.

[Realmzmaster]

@Riknas,

You are correct that both choices lead the party to the same conclusion and the party still ends up helping Tallis, but not because the party want to help her. You were allowed to make a choice, but you still had to get out of area which means going paste the Duke.

I agree it would have been better if Bioware had allowed the party to leave the area by a different way and go back to Kirkwall. Once the party arrives they find that Tallis has been killed and the people on the list were being hunted down and killed. The choice you made then would have real meaning and weight. But that outcome maybe to dark for some and Bioware decided not to use it.

[TEWR]

Realmzmaster wrote...


I agree it would have been better if Bioware had allowed the party to leave the area by a different way and go back to Kirkwall. Once the party arrives they find that Tallis has been killed and the people on the list were being hunted down and killed. The choice you made then would have real meaning and weight. But that outcome maybe to dark for some and Bioware decided not to use it.

Actually, I wouldn't want that to happen.

It would have been better if Hawke and the party fought the Duke and Leopold, and after the battle they grab the scroll. Then Tallis appears and tells Hawke to hand it over, to which Hawke can refuse and fight her 1 on 1 -- she'd have health like that of the Arishok, but she'll eventually outwit Hawke and take the scroll and flee -- or acquiesce and hand it over.

And if you go with Tallis, you fight the Duke and Leopold with her. You can then demand the scroll be handed over upon finding out what it is, and she'd refuse, and you'd fight her there (or let her keep it). The same thing that happened in the non-Tallis route would happen here. You'd fight her, and halfway through she'd overpower Hawke and leave with the scroll.

This would provide a very clear difference in how things went down. It was obviously Bioware's intent that Tallis still have the scroll, but this would make Hawke's failure to have the scroll in his possession believable on all counts. He either had it and was overwhelmed, handed it to her because Hawke wants her to have it, let her keep it, or tried to take it and was overwhelmed.

This would also make the Thoughts on Tallis codex entry stronger imo.

[alex90c]

Having Tallis go from some 140HP character to some 2 million HP monster wouldn't annoy anyone at all?

[TEWR]

Ideally, DAII should've had a system where the party's health and mana/stamina upgraded automatically upon level up -- and the player could still invest points in Constitution and Willpower if they so desired -- so the battle would be a superb one that made sense. Hawke would have thousands of health as well as Tallis.

But, since that isn't the case having Tallis be at 140 health would be kinda lame. The battle would be over immediately. And even the companions health jumps up in Night Terrors or when they fight Hawke.

edit: Remember that in origins the enemies health was also roughly the same as the party's. This should still be the case using DAII's system where the enemies have more health than the Origins enemies did (which is something I liked, because battles would end far too quickly in Origins for me.)

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 décembre 2011 - 12:01 .

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...


I agree it would have been better if Bioware had allowed the party to leave the area by a different way and go back to Kirkwall. Once the party arrives they find that Tallis has been killed and the people on the list were being hunted down and killed. The choice you made then would have real meaning and weight. But that outcome maybe to dark for some and Bioware decided not to use it.

Actually, I wouldn't want that to happen.

It would have been better if Hawke and the party fought the Duke and Leopold, and after the battle they grab the scroll. Then Tallis appears and tells Hawke to hand it over, to which Hawke can refuse and fight her 1 on 1 -- she'd have health like that of the Arishok, but she'll eventually outwit Hawke and take the scroll and flee -- or acquiesce and hand it over.

And if you go with Tallis, you fight the Duke and Leopold with her. You can then demand the scroll be handed over upon finding out what it is, and she'd refuse, and you'd fight her there (or let her keep it). The same thing that happened in the non-Tallis route would happen here. You'd fight her, and halfway through she'd overpower Hawke and leave with the scroll.

This would provide a very clear difference in how things went down. It was obviously Bioware's intent that Tallis still have the scroll, but this would make Hawke's failure to have the scroll in his possession believable on all counts. He either had it and was overwhelmed, handed it to her because Hawke wants her to have it, let her keep it, or tried to take it and was overwhelmed.

This would also make the Thoughts on Tallis codex entry stronger imo.

What motivation do Hawke and company have for fighting the Duke and Leopold if they do not go with Tallis. The party was told that they are after the Heart of Many. A lie that Tallis told. If Hawke is not going to join Tallis why would he believe anything she tells him? The prudent action is to leave if possible and then learn the truth Tallis was hiding.

The only reason why the companions were more powerful in the fade is because the demons augmented their power. Tallis has no way of augmenting her power. So there is no rationale for her all of a sudden gaining more health, stamina or abilities.

[esper]

I still think that the simplest solution would have to let the duke fall with the scroll that would have:
1. Allowed the duke NOT to look like an idiot in the last scene. All right, I can buy him not looking at the guard properly, but still...
2. Tallis would still have won as the names on the scroll would still be lost.
3. Those who left Tallis would mayby not be forced to have her on the team in the final fight of the dlc. It is irritating that she uses up valube healing resources because she dies so easily.

[TEWR]

Realmzmaster wrote...


What motivation do Hawke and company have for fighting the Duke and Leopold if they do not go with Tallis

He locked Hawke in a dungeon and then tried to kill them with his personal army.

Seems like good motivation to me.

The only reason why the companions were more powerful in the fade is because the demons augmented their power. Tallis has no way of augmenting her power. So there is no rationale for her all of a sudden gaining more health, stamina or abilities.

Pretty sure the companions always get a boost in health if they're the enemy, like in the endgame.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 décembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...


What motivation do Hawke and company have for fighting the Duke and Leopold if they do not go with Tallis

He locked Hawke in a dungeon and then tried to kill them with his personal army.

Seems like good motivation to me.

The only reason why the companions were more powerful in the fade is because the demons augmented their power. Tallis has no way of augmenting her power. So there is no rationale for her all of a sudden gaining more health, stamina or abilities.

Pretty sure the companions always get a boost in health if they're the enemy, like in the endgame.

The Duke was defending his home after Hawke and Tallis tried to steal from him and killed one of his servants. He also could have killed Hawke and Tallis in the vault but did not. He only ordered Hawke and Tallis killed after they escaped and once again became a threat to him which any rational person would do.  The inciters in this situation is Hawke and Tallis. A prudent Hawke would leave the area if possible without confronting the Duke again. That option is not present.

The boost in stength when one became an enemy at the end I have problems with. The boost in the Fade could be explained. The boost at the end can not be rationally.

[TEWR]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Duke was defending his home after Hawke and Tallis tried to steal from him and killed one of his servants. He also could have killed Hawke and Tallis in the vault but did not. He only ordered Hawke and Tallis killed after they escaped and once again became a threat to him which any rational person would do.  The inciters in this situation is Hawke and Tallis. A prudent Hawke would leave the area if possible without confronting the Duke again. That option is not present.

Hawke can also try and talk to the Duke and reason with him, for which he won't listen to. He can also be mad that he was working with Qunari and condemn her for it, but he's still cast in jail anyway.

There's plenty of motivation.

The boost in stength when one became an enemy at the end I have problems with. The boost in the Fade could be explained. The boost at the end can not be rationally.

Loghain also had more health when you fought him than he did as a companion.

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Duke was defending his home after Hawke and Tallis tried to steal from him and killed one of his servants. He also could have killed Hawke and Tallis in the vault but did not. He only ordered Hawke and Tallis killed after they escaped and once again became a threat to him which any rational person would do.  The inciters in this situation is Hawke and Tallis. A prudent Hawke would leave the area if possible without confronting the Duke again. That option is not present.

Hawke can also try and talk to the Duke and reason with him, for which he won't listen to. He can also be mad that he was working with Qunari and condemn her for it, but he's still cast in jail anyway.

There's plenty of motivation.

The boost in stength when one became an enemy at the end I have problems with. The boost in the Fade could be explained. The boost at the end can not be rationally.

Loghain also had more health when you fought him than he did as a companion.

Yes I know Loghain did, which also could not be explained.

Still does not change the basic fact that Hawke was there to rip off the Duke.  Hawke did not know about Tallis's deception until the Duke informed Hawke. It does not change the fact that Hawke is an accessory to murder. Also caught criminals have a tendency to denounce and point the finger at their accomplices. Hawke is an accomplice because he was helping Tallis commit burglary. The Duke had every right to jail Hawke and Tallis. He had every right to have them executed. Not counting assaults  on the Duke's guards.

[Riknas]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Duke was defending his home after Hawke and Tallis tried to steal from him and killed one of his servants. He also could have killed Hawke and Tallis in the vault but did not. He only ordered Hawke and Tallis killed after they escaped and once again became a threat to him which any rational person would do.  The inciters in this situation is Hawke and Tallis. A prudent Hawke would leave the area if possible without confronting the Duke again. That option is not present.

Hawke can also try and talk to the Duke and reason with him, for which he won't listen to. He can also be mad that he was working with Qunari and condemn her for it, but he's still cast in jail anyway.

There's plenty of motivation.

The boost in stength when one became an enemy at the end I have problems with. The boost in the Fade could be explained. The boost at the end can not be rationally.

Loghain also had more health when you fought him than he did as a companion.

Yes I know Loghain did, which also could not be explained.

Still does not change the basic fact that Hawke was there to rip off the Duke.  Hawke did not know about Tallis's deception until the Duke informed Hawke. It does not change the fact that Hawke is an accessory to murder. Also caught criminals have a tendency to denounce and point the finger at their accomplices. Hawke is an accomplice because he was helping Tallis commit burglary. The Duke had every right to jail Hawke and Tallis. He had every right to have them executed. Not counting assaults  on the Duke's guards.

This is of course assuming guards were being killed, you may have chosen the stealth approach Let's pause for a moment. Even Hammurabi  who preached "an eye for an eye" did not have such a sense of escalation that warranted killing someone after a theft.

And while the Duke is rightfully angry, it's not like the Duke is some innocent fellow and Tallis is some evil witch that came from the void. He is still an Orlesian noble with sick tastes. He handed away the rights of a noble who had apparently come to an agreement that he could be the winner of the hunt. The duke actually recommends killing him. He has a giant monster for a pet and wanted a weapon to kill qunari and anyone associated with them.

Yea, sure, people hate qunari, but people hate the chantry too.  They were ultimately there to stop the Duke from KILLING people, so let's not try and put this guy on a pedestal.

[Realmzmaster]

Riknas wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Duke was defending his home after Hawke and Tallis tried to steal from him and killed one of his servants. He also could have killed Hawke and Tallis in the vault but did not. He only ordered Hawke and Tallis killed after they escaped and once again became a threat to him which any rational person would do.  The inciters in this situation is Hawke and Tallis. A prudent Hawke would leave the area if possible without confronting the Duke again. That option is not present.

Hawke can also try and talk to the Duke and reason with him, for which he won't listen to. He can also be mad that he was working with Qunari and condemn her for it, but he's still cast in jail anyway.

There's plenty of motivation.

The boost in stength when one became an enemy at the end I have problems with. The boost in the Fade could be explained. The boost at the end can not be rationally.

Loghain also had more health when you fought him than he did as a companion.

Yes I know Loghain did, which also could not be explained.

Still does not change the basic fact that Hawke was there to rip off the Duke.  Hawke did not know about Tallis's deception until the Duke informed Hawke. It does not change the fact that Hawke is an accessory to murder. Also caught criminals have a tendency to denounce and point the finger at their accomplices. Hawke is an accomplice because he was helping Tallis commit burglary. The Duke had every right to jail Hawke and Tallis. He had every right to have them executed. Not counting assaults  on the Duke's guards.

This is of course assuming guards were being killed, you may have chosen the stealth approach Let's pause for a moment. Even Hammurabi  who preached "an eye for an eye" did not have such a sense of escalation that warranted killing someone after a theft.

And while the Duke is rightfully angry, it's not like the Duke is some innocent fellow and Tallis is some evil witch that came from the void. He is still an Orlesian noble with sick tastes. He handed away the rights of a noble who had apparently come to an agreement that he could be the winner of the hunt. The duke actually recommends killing him. He has a giant monster for a pet and wanted a weapon to kill qunari and anyone associated with them.

Yea, sure, people hate qunari, but people hate the chantry too.  They were ultimately there to stop the Duke from KILLING people, so let's not try and put this guy on a pedestal.

I am not trying to put the Duke on a pedestal. Hawke is still an accomplice to murder. (Remember the servant Tallis kills when they open the door with the key which happens before you can chose stealth.) Also  Hawke still does not know about the full importance of the list until after the Duke is dead.

All Tallis told him was that a lot of lives were at stake after all the other lies she told him. The Duke did not know the importance of the names on the list and did not care. It was not what he was looking for. He did not want the weapon himself. He was acting on behalf of the empress. It has nothing to do with hating the Qunari. I was stating that if given a chance ( a different way out)  a prudent Hawke would have taken his leave and gone home.

[TEWR]

Realmzmaster wrote...

It has nothing to do with hating the Qunari. I was stating that if given a chance ( a different way out)  a prudent Hawke would have taken his leave and gone home.

the only way out of the Duke's estate eventually led back to where the Duke was anyway, and by that time you're so far into the DLC that you can't escape the ending.

Certainly, one could play a Hawke intent on leaving, but you're still going to have to fight the Duke anyway. And like I said there's plenty of motivation for Hawke to want to kill Prosper.

So it still comes down to what I proposed earlier.

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

It has nothing to do with hating the Qunari. I was stating that if given a chance ( a different way out)  a prudent Hawke would have taken his leave and gone home.

the only way out of the Duke's estate eventually led back to where the Duke was anyway, and by that time you're so far into the DLC that you can't escape the ending.

Certainly, one could play a Hawke intent on leaving, but you're still going to have to fight the Duke anyway. And like I said there's plenty of motivation for Hawke to want to kill Prosper.

So it still comes down to what I proposed earlier.

Note I said if there was a different way out, but Bioware did not give any other way. I still think that it should have been given as an option. The way you proposed could also be used. Therefore multiple endings.

[brushyourteeth]

Hey John! I think this is a great question and it's really nice to know how much you guys care about our opinions. My favorite thing about the DA series and many of the other games Bioware has done is how the storytelling focuses on the human experience. I've been playing DA II through again and there were definitely a few specific times that I felt the dialogue was way out of my control. Mostly it had a lot to do with the dialogue wheel. In real life you never choose to give a kind response and hope to be pleased with what comes out of your mouth -- instead, you know what you're going to say beforehand and barely notice yourself speaking. I found myself often thinking "okay, I'm a sarcastic person, but that was flat out mean (reload)." That whole process is, to me, completely inorganic. There were also little things like completing Martin's quest and automatically being forced into chastising him for dealing poisons, when two seconds later I of course chose the option to say "whatever, here's your cargo." Then were bigger things like "Why can't I flirt with Sebastian (or anyone, really) without being a big hussy about it?" I also felt goaded into participating in quests with outcomes my Hawke would have naturally avoided -- especially incidents involving apostate mages. Rarely were we given the opportunity to just walk away. Our choices were usually to 1.) help them or 2.) help them anyway. If we were lucky it was to 1.) help them or 2.) kill them. Hawke was obviously predisposed to be mage-friendly with his/her family history, so it felt wrong not to side with them, effectively making me feel like I "had to" play a certain way because that's what Hawke would obviously do. One programming choice that still distracts me concerning an environment is Darktown (which does not look like an underground sewer, and which is never dark, not even at night). All that being said after my more recent playthough I've realized what a work of art the game really is and how tough of a critic I was when it first came out. I have to disagree with the comments on here about the facial expressions and body language not being expressive enough. I'm sure there's room for improvement, but if there's a game that does a better job of replicating human interactions I've yet to find it. The script is beautiful and the game itself couldn't be more gorgeous. I wanted a character I could shape the way I was able to shape the Warden. I was given Hawke, and Hawke had a very preset agenda that I couldn't completely control, but she also had a story that made me feel deeply. So thanks for that. Also, (side note) thanks for never splattering blood on our screens - it just reminds us that we have them, so please please never ever do it!

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 11 janvier 2012 - 09:26 .

[brushyourteeth]

oh! and real quick I wanted to mention how awesome it was to play Mark of the Assassin and see all that changes depending on your party members quest-wise. I've only played through it once and brought Anders and Isabella (great stuff!) and now I can't wait to play through again and see how the collection quests change. From an immersion standpoint it's great to remember that your companions had their own lives before Hawke. The fact also that parts of every individual companion's dialogue will change completely depending on your other party members makes us feel like the characters are fleshed out. That certainly required a ton of programming and it IS impressive.

[Deadmac]

JohnEpler wrote...
1) Moments where you felt like control was taken away from you by the cinematics. Were there moments where you felt 'hey, that's not something my Hawke would ever do!' that were not writing related. I realize this can be a bit odd of a concept to grasp, so let me reiterate - times where, while the lines and intent of the writing wasn't necessarily a problem, but in the context of the scene your character did something or had a particular expression that just took you out of the moment?

JohnEpler wrote...
3) Moments where you noticed a lack of/opportunities for ambient storytelling.

When playing through "Dragon Age II", I had many moments in Act III where cinematics and dialogue options didn't match my choices in Act I and Act II. Instead of being able to negotiate, like I did in the previous acts, the option to take the middle road was completely absent. Some of those moments include: (1) Characters telling me I had suddenly chose a side, but there was no explanation as to how they came to such of an conclusion, (2) Character hypocrites throughout the last act, and the inability to react naturally to such a situation, and (3) the inability to bring the Mages and Templars together, so they can overthrow the Knight Commander.

During my dealings with the Quinari in Act II, I was unable to negotiate naturally with the people involved. Even though I played a uniting element throughout the chapter, the Quinari situation went the complete opposite in how I designed Hawke's personality. After you played out the situation the first time around, the second time through I said, "Well... Its out of my hands now, for they are only going to completely ignore all of my dialogue options. Just hit anything."

Once everything came to a climax in Act III, the character hypocrisy angle was an interesting twist. Even though it was a unique way to deal with certain revelations, the player is left feeling like they were not fully rewarded. When a real person is put into Hawke's situation, the natural response is to take action in order to rectify an undesirable outcome. Some of the lost revelation possibilities included: (1) taking the thrown by force, (2) inspiring a cou'de'ta by uniting the Mages and Templars, and (3) killing all those who impose your power.

After defeating the Quinari in Act II, the title 'Champion of Kirkwall' didn't pan out into anything special. It gave you a voice within certain situations, but it didn't really mean much to the story. Most of the characters in Act III ignored the side quest resolutions in Act II; thus, the voice of the Champion had diminished within seconds of defeating the Quinari. I felt more like a sports champion than a savior. If you end up saving a city-state from total annihilation, the voice of your player character should carry bigger weight. Actions of champions are always forgotten. Actions of kings are always remembered. Hawke in Act III personifies the following line from Highlander, "Its better to burn out than to fade away". If players are putting in the hours to progress towards a reward, the story should naturaly reward them for their effort and time. I would rather spend time doing something else than to play a game where nothing matters.

(Hint: "Knights of the Old Republic" and "Dragon Age: Origins" will be remembered, but "The Sith Lords" and "Dragon Age II" will be nothing but a fogotten memory. - Answer: Both of the originals ended with a suitable reward for the time and effort people put into the game.)

One specific cinematic should be ripped right out... When Aveline shows up at Hawke's mansion for the first time, they converse at the bottom of the stairwell. While Aveline was talking to Hawke, your player character rudely turns its back to the npc, walks to the nearby desk, and then continues the conversation without eye contact. If some type of animation should take place, I would have had Hawke sit on the bottom steps. Since they had been friends for many years, at that point in the game, Hawke should have reacted in accordance to the relationship's history.

Does that help?

Modifié par Deadmac, 25 janvier 2012 - 05:36 .

[Kaisla]

Huge fan of DA!

I love how in Dragon Age 2, your character talks. But, I d like more emotion in her facial
features, like tears or laughter.

Romance.
I d like to see an actual romance scene have passion, like in Origins, you see
them making love. I m not a pervert or anything, but I attach myself to the game, as if i was
in the game myself. I m having my FemHawke romance Anders, I know he moves in and I think it would be nice to be able to talk to him like how my grey warden spoke to Alistar, there was always
communicating going on. I want to feel the passion and love.