405 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[Das Tentakel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I actually wish Soldier's Peak had been renovated and we could explore it.

Were it me, I would've made it so the player had a new base they could explore anytime they were there. The player would always have the Camp and if they went to Soldier's Peak all of the companions would be doing their own thing:

• Wynne and Morrigan would be in the library reading books
• Alistair, Dog, and Oghren would be in the kitchen
• Sten would be on the bridge overlooking the mountain, staring off into the horizon
• Leliana would be practicing Archery while also singing
• Zevran would be..... Zevran!
• Shale would be chasing the birds
• And Loghain would be in another room looking over old maps.
• The PC -- who is effectively the Warden Commander -- would have Sophia Dryden's office become his office. At least until Amaranthine

I would've also allowed the player to send certain people there to become Wardens. If Jowan could've been recruited like it was originally intended, he would be made a Warden there. Even if he couldn't be a party member, that doesn't mean he can't be a Warden. Then there's also that Dwarf in Orzammar that the player can recruit, though nothing came of it.

Levi and Mikhael would be there still, and the player could even upgrade the base however they wanted. This way, the Warden makes a Warden outpost that has fallen into disrepair usable again.

Um... where were we? Oh yeah! I took us somewhere off the rails.

I think you're somewhere in Temeria, or Kaedwen, maybe even Tamriel in the not-so-distant future, but certainly no longer in Thedas:wizard:

Użytkownik Das Tentakel edytował ten post 18 marzec 2012 - 02:29

[TEWR]

LOL.

5 months ago -- when I first posted that -- it struck me as more of a Suikoden meets Assassin's Creed II meets something else. Then I got Skyrim and it did it too for each of the Dragonborn's homes in Tamriel. And I always did like that concept. Investing money to improve a place you're staying at.

Awakening actually briefly -- very briefly -- touched upon this concept by investing money with Voldrik Glavonak to improve the Keep.

Użytkownik The Ethereal Writer Redux edytował ten post 18 marzec 2012 - 03:04

[TEWR]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

About that; you get to do all these quests to reinforce the keep but in the end you do not have any advantage of it. Or did I missed someting here?
(I saved the keep over the town) I'm still wondering about the explosive powder by the way; isn't this kinda like the stuff the Qunari had?

It's been sometime since I saved the Keep over the city myself and my memory is very rusty -- so I may be wrong.

If you've fully upgraded the Keep and have the support of the banns in the area, you'll have access to Knights. 12 to be exact. You also have access to a contingent of soldiers.

Voldrik will tell you -- if the walls have been reinforced to Dwarven standards -- that no Ogre will break through them. Whether this is purely dialogue or it's truth, I don't know. I don't know if weaker walls actually lead to more Darkspawn breaking through.

Dworkin's explosives come in handy, as you'll be able to launch a barrage of Lyrium explosives at the Darkspawn dealing significant damage -- even moreso if you've told him to go full power when creating them and you've held onto the samples Dworkin gave you.

Now, as for the explosives they are indeed similar to the Qunari ones. And he's pursued as a result. It's because the Qunari do not like anyone having a recipe for explosives -- ignoring how Thedas already has magical explosives. Lyrium explosives are not too far off from regular blackpowder ones, which means that the Qunari have less of an advantage then before. Remember that when the Qunari invaded Thedas, much of Thedas was conquered by the Qunari because of their cannons.

They were only repelled because of magic.

Imagine how well the Qunari would fare against Thedosian mages, soldiers, and explosives. They might be conquered instead of doing the reverse.

You also have access to a Sniper -- if you've done the Law and Order, it's an elf. Otherwise, Ser Maverlies -- that will... well... snipe.

It basically consists of the more quests you do, the more things you have access to that will allow you to kill the Darkspawn.

Or so I'm led to believe. I've always upgraded the Keep completely and saved Amaranthine City -- save for one time where I did save the Keep only, so as to gain the associated trophy.

[TEWR]

Really? When I played that quest I was able to detonate them. I play on the PS3 as well.

[TEWR]

There are levers scattered throughout the level that trip the explosives.

That honestly doesn't make much sense to me if these explosives are in a barrel and were just planted there recently. Though hey, maybe I'm missing something about how explosives can be rigged.

[Realmzmaster]

I play on the PC. The explosives are set to go. You have to activate them by using the levers. If on Nightmare remember that they can hurt your party as well as the enemy.

[TEWR]

When Javaris wants the recipe for blackpowder, he doesn't know about the lyrium explosives. In fact, it seems that no one outside of the Wardens of Amaranthine and a few Dwarves know about them.

Besides, lyrium is dangerous to handle. Blackpowder is slightly safer then lyrium, since you don't have to worry about your eyeballs melting out of your skull.

[esper]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When Javaris wants the recipe for blackpowder, he doesn't know about the lyrium explosives. In fact, it seems that no one outside of the Wardens of Amaranthine and a few Dwarves know about them.

Besides, lyrium is dangerous to handle. Blackpowder is slightly safer then lyrium, since you don't have to worry about your eyeballs melting out of your skull.

Jarvis actually specifically mentions he wants the black powder because it is not lyrium.

[Pasquale1234]

maxernst wrote...

So for a CRPG, ideally, the story should be told within the gameplay as much as possible. A good example from ME is when you hear radio announcements about your activities or that are relevant to the plot while you're in an elevator. It tells the player what he needs to know while being seamlessly in the world. I really dislike cut scenes in which I am watching the action of people in some far away place that my PC couldn't possibly know anything about. If the information imparted by those cut scenes is important, they need to find some way to integrate it with what you see on the screen.

I just wanted to pop in to say that I don't really agree with the statement I underlined.  In fact, I think that non-diegetic exposition is a perfectly valid use of cinematics in a cRPG.  Some great examples are the scenes of Loghain and Howe scheming in DAO - there are times when a narrative wants to provide information to the player (audience) that the PC does not know, and such sequences are a great way to accomplish that.

[TEWR]

esper wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

When Javaris wants the recipe for blackpowder, he doesn't know about the lyrium explosives. In fact, it seems that no one outside of the Wardens of Amaranthine and a few Dwarves know about them.

Besides, lyrium is dangerous to handle. Blackpowder is slightly safer then lyrium, since you don't have to worry about your eyeballs melting out of your skull.

Jarvis actually specifically mentions he wants the black powder because it is not lyrium.

But he doesn't know about the stronger capabilities of lyrium explosives made by Dworkin. He only knows that lyrium was used for smaller bombs. Dworkin's work is nothing "small".

Basically, he doesn't want to use lyrium because of both the added risk and the lessened effectiveness, as far as he knew regarding lyrium-made explosives.

[Kavatica]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

So for a CRPG, ideally, the story should be told within the gameplay as much as possible. A good example from ME is when you hear radio announcements about your activities or that are relevant to the plot while you're in an elevator. It tells the player what he needs to know while being seamlessly in the world. I really dislike cut scenes in which I am watching the action of people in some far away place that my PC couldn't possibly know anything about. If the information imparted by those cut scenes is important, they need to find some way to integrate it with what you see on the screen.

I just wanted to pop in to say that I don't really agree with the statement I underlined.  In fact, I think that non-diegetic exposition is a perfectly valid use of cinematics in a cRPG.  Some great examples are the scenes of Loghain and Howe scheming in DAO - there are times when a narrative wants to provide information to the player (audience) that the PC does not know, and such sequences are a great way to accomplish that.

Totally agree. I love those Loghain scenes. It was a great way to set up the "world" that the Warden was living in, as well as introduce characters like Anora, Bann Teagan (<3) and Zev. Another great example would be the cut scenes in KotOR. Obviously those were incredibly significant later on down the road.

[Das Tentakel]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

So for a CRPG, ideally, the story should be told within the gameplay as much as possible. A good example from ME is when you hear radio announcements about your activities or that are relevant to the plot while you're in an elevator. It tells the player what he needs to know while being seamlessly in the world. I really dislike cut scenes in which I am watching the action of people in some far away place that my PC couldn't possibly know anything about. If the information imparted by those cut scenes is important, they need to find some way to integrate it with what you see on the screen.

I just wanted to pop in to say that I don't really agree with the statement I underlined.  In fact, I think that non-diegetic exposition is a perfectly valid use of cinematics in a cRPG.  Some great examples are the scenes of Loghain and Howe scheming in DAO - there are times when a narrative wants to provide information to the player (audience) that the PC does not know, and such sequences are a great way to accomplish that.

While I am not 100% a fan of said scenes (I always felt the way Loghain and Arl Howe were protrayed they were a bunch of amateurs who, if they lived in late Plantagenet/Tudor England,  would've ended up on Tower Bridge admiring the view - in as much as severed heads are capable of esthetic appreciation), I agree that these scenes can, and do work. They provide information and give a sense of being part of a wider story. Great way of creating context, if used properly.

[Wulfram]

Those sort of scenes are can be good, but you need to avoid creating too big a disparity between player knowledge and character knowledge.

[Das Tentakel]

Wulfram wrote...

Those sort of scenes are can be good, but you need to avoid creating too big a disparity between player knowledge and character knowledge.

Pacing is probably important too. They are nice as ' rewards' for finishing a chapter or starting a new.
Too many, too long or not relevant enough, and they become jarring/annoying.
Personally, I found them okay but not exactly great in DA:O. I can understand why some people didn't like them, though I would argue that is at least partly because of a less-than-perfect execution. Intent and purpose were good.

One opportunity that was lost, was creating context for the Loghain character, for giving us an idea what makes him tick, in short, create some understanding, maybe even a bit of 'sympathy for the devil'. Instead, we have things told by his daughter, but it's a case of 'tell, don't show'. The reverse would have been more effective...

Compare this cutscene from Freespace II (1999) 
www.youtube.com/watch . Admiral Aiken Bosch shares certain features with Loghain - a 'traitor in spite of himself', acting out of patriotic/honorable motives.

[Dessalines]

I like reading the Codex, but I still like to get some in game information for the players. I think the mission need to have come cut scenes mixed int to bring that game back to cinema style. I enjoy that in Mass Effect 2, and I really loved in Mass Effect 3. If you are going to have long quests like in Dragon Age, then they have some cut scenes in it. If not it takes away from the magic of the game.
I think you need to continue "refreshing" how relationships are done. I really do like how relationships were done in Dragon Age 2 that culmination of the relationship was not the end of it.
The one thing that frustrates me about other games is that the game normally ends when you are the highest level or your political and social might. I think it would original to have that be the middle of the game. Just a thought. I think you have to shake it up in a good way.
I like how "time" exists in Dragon Age2. I might be in the minority, but I think it provides a lot of realism

[maxernst]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

So for a CRPG, ideally, the story should be told within the gameplay as much as possible. A good example from ME is when you hear radio announcements about your activities or that are relevant to the plot while you're in an elevator. It tells the player what he needs to know while being seamlessly in the world. I really dislike cut scenes in which I am watching the action of people in some far away place that my PC couldn't possibly know anything about. If the information imparted by those cut scenes is important, they need to find some way to integrate it with what you see on the screen.

I just wanted to pop in to say that I don't really agree with the statement I underlined.  In fact, I think that non-diegetic exposition is a perfectly valid use of cinematics in a cRPG.  Some great examples are the scenes of Loghain and Howe scheming in DAO - there are times when a narrative wants to provide information to the player (audience) that the PC does not know, and such sequences are a great way to accomplish that.

But that's exactly the problem.  I don't think the player should ever be an audience in a game, and I don't want to have information that my character doesn't.  If I wanted to be an observer, rather than a participant, I'd watch a movie or read a book.  There are better media for that sort of story.

Użytkownik maxernst edytował ten post 24 marzec 2012 - 02:56

[Das Tentakel]

maxernst wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

So for a CRPG, ideally, the story should be told within the gameplay as much as possible. A good example from ME is when you hear radio announcements about your activities or that are relevant to the plot while you're in an elevator. It tells the player what he needs to know while being seamlessly in the world. I really dislike cut scenes in which I am watching the action of people in some far away place that my PC couldn't possibly know anything about. If the information imparted by those cut scenes is important, they need to find some way to integrate it with what you see on the screen.

I just wanted to pop in to say that I don't really agree with the statement I underlined.  In fact, I think that non-diegetic exposition is a perfectly valid use of cinematics in a cRPG.  Some great examples are the scenes of Loghain and Howe scheming in DAO - there are times when a narrative wants to provide information to the player (audience) that the PC does not know, and such sequences are a great way to accomplish that.

But that's exactly the problem.  I don't think the player should ever be an audience in a game, and I don't want to have information that my character doesn't.  If I wanted to be an observer, rather than a participant, I'd watch a movie or read a book.  There are better media for that sort of story.

That is a classic case of a value judgement, rather than an analysis of the quality of DA:O and DA2's cutscenes, or the way in which the cutscene are used in the context of the game.
Cutscenes are just a tool, you don't throw it away just because some games use them ineptly.
Personally, I wasn't blown away with the way DA:O and DA2 used them. And Bioware has an annoying tendency to use them to take away control from the player. And let's not get started about Metal Gear Solid 4 or Final Fantasy XIII:(. 
But for some things, even in an RPG, it's a useful tool.

Extra Credits has an episode dedicated to this subject: www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/cutscenes

Użytkownik Das Tentakel edytował ten post 26 marzec 2012 - 07:56

[Das Tentakel]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Cutscenes are a perfect tool to give additional information about events and people in a game if they serve their purpose correctly.

I enjoyed FF-series up untill FFXIII. The cinematics in my opinion where there to give some body to a action games that was masked as a RPG.

Another thread on the forum is about being able to switch between characters. In FFIX you had the possibility to watch what party members were doing during a certain part in the game. You had the choice to watch it or not witch gave you the freedom to do so or not. In my opinion it gave the story a lot more depth. It is also a good way to give characters more depth and it can give the writers a way to explain for excample motivations that drives a companion/character.

There's another thing too: immersion in the setting.
A cutscene can provide a POV 'from the other side', or perhaps from the past. It can point at events elsewhere in the wider universe that will have consequences for the player character. It can give a sense of scale, of a setting with depth in time as well as geographical width. Doing it right requires skill, though. They should not be too numerous, not too long and you never, ever break the flow of the gameplay just because you want to throw in a cutscene.

I'm probably marking myself as a Freespace junkie, but the first game (1998) is a fine example of using them correctly, and extremely evocatively. Take a look at the 'Ancients' cutscenes on Youtube (www.youtube.com/watch and take it from there). They're short, they occur as 'breaks' between series of interrelated missions (in an RPG that would be between chapters/subchapters) and they simultaneously 'reward' the player, create context and give the setting depth and enhance/reinforce the (pretty bleak and grim) mood/atmosphere.

Użytkownik Das Tentakel edytował ten post 26 marzec 2012 - 10:28