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How do you personally define an RPG?


123 réponses à ce sujet

#1
MacCready

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I've been seeing a lot of comments recently stating that games like Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age 2 aren't real RPG's because they're too streamlined. The main argument being that you don't spend hours grinding to level up or arse about in menu screens sorting through endless lists of loot and trying to decide what armour gives you the best +1 in stats.

Now I personally can't stand the majority of the old RPG traditions for the following reasons:-

Turn based battles were fine back in the day but with the advancement of video game mechanics controlling your character has never felt more versatile. So it just feels like a step backwards when your character is rooted to the ground and you're only allowed to issue them prompts to attack as opposed to actually puppeteering them. It doesn't feel very immersive and it feels like the game is doing all the work for me.

Micro management. This is probably one of my biggest gripes with an RPG is having to wade through endless piles of junk to decide what is actually useful and what's just going to get sold off for coin. An example of this was the first Mass Effect where you pick up a ridiculous amount of weapons and armour throughout the game, but you rarely come across anything that's better then your current set up. So you end up selling these items for money of which I rarely needed to spend. I must have acquired something like 10 million credits by the end of the game. Presumably my Shepard must have used it to go on a drug binge afterwards, maybe do some gambling and hire a couple of Asari hookers?

Faffing around with stats and levelling up. Ok this RPG tradition is kind of necessary if you have aspirations of turning your novice mage into a world shattering necromancer, I just wish leveling up felt a bit more significant.

'Well I'm a level 26 rogue with 37 dexterity but I've just used a skill point to bump that up to 38 dexterity. Look out Darkspawn, sh*t is about to get real!'

The best example I've experienced of levelling up your character is in Infamous 1&2 (I know it's not an RPG but bare with me). At first you start off with a rather pathetic bolt attack but once you've acquired enough experience points you can choose a new attack such as firing rockets or having the ability to propel yourself in the air. The changes I see to my character are immediate and I feel like all the hard work I've done by doing sidequests and such had paid off. A bad example of levelling was Oblivion where enemies scaled with you and it felt like my character was only getting worse, until some weird breakthrough around level 21 where I suddenly felt like Zeus, God of Kick Arse!

Grinding. This ties in with levelling up. As much as I enjoy some aspects of the Final Fantasy series I get seriously fed up when I had to face a certain boss to progress but he's a bit too strong. Ok, I'll need to level up a bit and come back later. This would be fine if there were interesting sidequests I could complete in order to level up, perhaps with an interesting mini story of its own that would make a nice break from the main adventure. But no, usually what happens is I'll have to run around the map for hours getting in random battles until I've lost the will to live. Oblivion on the other hand, while it's levelling system was sh*te, it easily had some of the best sidequesting I've played in an RPG. Bethesda understood that scouring the land for adventure is fun when you have some sort of motivation, so the sidequests always had their own overarching plot that rivaled (if not bettered) the main quests itself. I must have sunk about 250 hours into that game, and I actually enjoyed it as there was always a fun new quest to complete.

You see, what makes an RPG for me is this sense of being on an epic adventure framed by an engaging story and to build a powerful character without it feeling monotonous and boring. Something like Mass Effect 2 was a near perfect game for me as it understood these core components. Gone were the superficial stat building and item management, in it's place was tighter gameplay with a good mix of fluid shooter mechanics and strategy. It contained incredibly entertaining sidequests each with their own unique story. Some complained when they ditched the traditional RPG elements from the first game, but as I explained before they were completely superficial. I proved this to myself when I played through the game again and decided to ignore levelling up and changing equipment all together. Alright there were a few hard bits, but it wasn't that difficult and actually made the game more fun as the pacing had dramatically improved since I wasn't pissing away so much time in menu screens.

Now I can already here the herd of uber nerds ready to trample over my clearly 'wrong' opinions of what makes an RPG and suggest I just stick to Call of Duty or Captain Bland Space Marine Pawns a Noob in Team Deathmatch. But that would be missing the point, those sort of games are too linear and short for me. A good RPG can last upwards to 50+ hours and take you to strange places and encounters, I just don't want my RPG to be a time sink where I'm some sort of medieval chartered accountant in between Orc slaying.

Now I'm not saying abandon traditional RPG's altogether, I may never get into something like The Witcher but someone else will still clearly get off on it. I just don't want all modern RPG's to be stuck in tired old formulas forever, all I would like is to experience an epic adventure without the grind. 

Modifié par MacCready, 04 août 2011 - 04:07 .


#2
Warheadz

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How do I define an RPG? It's a role playing game, where I can at least slightly affect the role which is being played. Either in the Origins- way where I make choices and everything, or a Final Fantasy way where I build their combat proficiencies and equip items like I want to. I have to have some control over the role.

#3
fchopin

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If my character has hair then it’s an rpg.

#4
MacCready

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fchopin wrote...

If my character has hair then it’s an rpg.


That would omit any game with the generic shaved headed tough guy, which is pretty much all of them these days.

#5
Fast Jimmy

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Today, if a story is being told that I have some range of control over, I feel it is an RPG.

God of War has a great story that I can in no way affect or detour. So, even though it has fantasy aspects, leveling features, equipment gathering and an engaging plot, I would not consider it an RPG.

In older games, the mere presence of a story that had any depth was the basis for calling something an RPG (for instance, the first Final Fantasy game was incredibly linear, but had a deep story line as opposed to, say, Zelda or Metroid. Both of those games had item collection and a form of leveling, but told a non-existent story and were classified as Adventure games).

Nowadays, every game (for the most part) has more story than just "Go Save The Princess!" so I would say a game that offers choice and consequence to the story could be considered an RPG. Anything else is just an action or turn based adventure game (I'm looking at you, jPRGs).

#6
Bazedragon

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Well, not easy question. The easiest answer is where you play a role - of course, that defines basically every game out there.

Personally, I'd say where you get to make choices which affect the game universe in some way - you get to influence the canon for your playthrough.
Inventory and customisation are unimportant. I can live with fixed looks and boring weapons, so long as I can decide who I want to work with, and whether or not I'm "good" or "evil".

#7
Il Divo

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In a single word? Customization. That customization can include character stats, weapons/armor, personality, dialogue, etc. Based on this, there's many different kinds of RPG.

Some, such as Diablo, Final Fantasy, etc, place much greater focus on the character stats and equipment/inventory.

Others, such as Jade Empire/Mass Effect 2, instead focus on dialogue/choices/interaction.

I personally enjoy the latter alot more, but I do admit that the others are RPGs as well.

#8
IronSabbath88

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My definition of RPG is very easy to accomplish. Big, wide world, great dialogue, intriguing missions, levelling up, customization and most importantly a great story. Any game that has a boring story I really can't keep myself hooked onto anymore.

This is why I started losing interest in FPS.

Oh and choice, choice is a very good one too. I like a game where your choices have a meaning.

Modifié par IronSabbath88, 04 août 2011 - 04:26 .


#9
Cutlass Jack

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For me its simple. I need to be able to create my own protaganist. The act of creating a role that I play ties me to the game and makes me care about it. The more control I have over the protaganist, the more connected I get.

Which is why (Sacrilege incoming) Saints Row 2 feels more like an RPG to me than Witcher. Even though the former isn't really an RPG in the technical sense.

Games like Mass Effect walk a middle ground. You get a reasonable amount of character creation options even though some parts of that identity are forced upon you. But makes up for it by being an engaging story with meaningful choices you can make throughout.

I love tinkering around with RPG stats too and customizing builds, etc. But the character is the thing.

#10
MacCready

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Customisation and chooses were two good ones I missed.

Being able to decide how the adventure plays out certainly gives you the feeling that you are effecting the world around you as opposed to being a spectator of events. It also gives the game descent replay value as you can see how different choices would have played out. I thought Fallout New Vegas did this brilliantly.

Being able to create my own character is a God send for me as I've already explained in previous threads how sick I am of your standard identikit video game protagonist. It's also very refreshing to choose different skill sets for your character, player a rogue or a mage is going to result in a very different game for either.

#11
Whatever42

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I know this will degenerate into the same old debate but I came across something interesting not long ago.

There is a turn-based strategy game coming out next year by Paradox (Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, etc.) called Crusader Kings 2. One of the things they said in their designer log was that they realized that this game was at heart a role playing game.

While still a turn-based strategy game, this game allowed people to assume the role of a ruler and build a lineage. Your character eventually dies but the game continues as long as you have heirs. The developers realized that the popularity of this particular series wasn't in the strategy gameplay but in the development of their ruler and their families.

Perhaps that's the definition of a RPG. Are you there just to shoot stuff or are you building, customizing and caring about a character.

#12
MacCready

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That seems to be what everyone else is saying. All genres are getting blurred into one another these days, so an FPS game will have RPG elements i.e. Bioshock, but does that specifically make it an RPG? What sets apart an actual RPG seems to be the ability to change everything from your character to the events of his life and the lives around him.

#13
blothulfur

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I don't, I have two categories of definition good and not arsed about. Works for me.

#14
Druss99

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Rocket Propelled Grenade or a game where I play a role which involves either making choices as that character or earning XP to level them up as I see fit.

#15
Ghost Lightning

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fchopin wrote...

If my character has hair then it’s an rpg.



i second this notion 

#16
luki1234567

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there are four things defining if sth is rpg
- dialogue system. Da2 has none. its an icon choose system since the written responsens are not what hawke will say. (in 8/10 cases) "i wanna be a dragon" lol
- levelling system
- quests
- skills

cutlass jack by your definition of rpg planescape torment isn't an rpg... just saying to all those whining about "charcter creation making an rpg"

#17
C9316

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IMO an rpgs needs the following:
Leveling System
Quests
Skills
In depth customization
Choices
Dialogue system
Immersive Storyline

#18
Ghost Lightning

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C9316 wrote...

IMO an rpgs needs the following:
Leveling System
Quests
Skills
In depth customization
Choices
Dialogue system

Immersive Storyline


Fix'd. I think as there were RPG's before these elements became popularized they really can't be called defining elements. 

Modifié par Ghost Lightning, 04 août 2011 - 05:48 .


#19
Guest_Para-Medic_*

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Good storyline, interesting characters that don't stay the same all the time, the power of choice.

#20
Guest_Tigerblood and MilkShakes_*

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Silent Protagonist( I perfer)
Quest
Custominzation
Barter:Loot/Trade/Sell/Steal System
Choices
Indepth Leveling System
Good/Great storyline
Indepth Skills system
Party banter(if there is a team system)
Combat that gos with the Game(not some over the top action movie..*COUGH me2 COUGH*)

Pretty much what RPG has turned into in the last decade or so

What kills it for me is:
if theres too much action/combat
no story and no real dialog
no investing into skills/leveling
being linear,not enough Freedom to explore and find things out
No grinding at all to level or make you stats advance
and no real stat system

Modifié par Tigerblood and MilkShakes, 04 août 2011 - 06:05 .


#21
AlanC9

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Ghost Lightning wrote...

C9316 wrote...

IMO an rpgs needs the following:
Leveling System
Quests
Skills
In depth customization
Choices
Dialogue system

Immersive Storyline


Fix'd. I think as there were RPG's before these elements became popularized they really can't be called defining elements. 


Another couple strikethroughs for you. Early RPGs sometimes didn't have any storyline or quests beyond ketting to the bottom of this (dungeon) and killing (Foozle). In depth customization wasn't in early RPGs except as pertaining to loot. Skills didn't exist in early RPGs at all

We'd better keep PnP out of scope or we'd have to remove leveling too, since there are a couple of PnP systems without advancement, most notoriously original Traveller. Actually, let's bring that in. Then we have a category with no defining characteristics at all.

#22
Guest_Tigerblood and MilkShakes_*

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AlanC9 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...

C9316 wrote...

IMO an rpgs needs the following:
Leveling System
Quests
Skills
In depth customization
Choices
Dialogue system

Immersive Storyline


Fix'd. I think as there were RPG's before these elements became popularized they really can't be called defining elements. 


Another couple strikethroughs for you. Early RPGs sometimes didn't have any storyline or quests beyond ketting to the bottom of this (dungeon) and killing (Foozle). In depth customization wasn't in early RPGs except as pertaining to loot. Skills didn't exist in early RPGs at all

We'd better keep PnP out of scope or we'd have to remove leveling too, since there are a couple of PnP systems without advancement, most notoriously original Traveller. Actually, let's bring that in. Then we have a category with no defining characteristics at all.


You guys are completely right

#23
DragonRageGT

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I must say that other than my 5 years rp'ing in NWN Hardcore RP Permanent Worlds with some amazing people, there is nothing really that I call RPG.

It really felt like acting in some awesome play and I went deep into my role of an Elvish Archer from Dwimordene. Only that there was freedom to improvise and being in character soon became so natural that is a hard-to-forget experience.

So I define RPG as an awesome play where I can have a role and go deep into my character, interacting with other "actors" and having a really great time. I'll forever thank Morpheus for his server and his team of DM's too.

#24
VoiceOfPudding

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Ghost Lightning wrote...

fchopin wrote...

If my character has hair then it’s an rpg.



i second this notion 


This is just a feature of modern games that developers put into the game so that they can put a rpg label on the box after all, assassin's creed 2 has rpg elements (ezio and numerous others have hair) but it is definitely not an rpg.

True rpg's need facial hair and toenails, without these core features you may as well be playing an fps. They add the depth and customization that is required in each and every true rpg that is out there. They define the role that your character can play and increase the tactics possible- could your character cut someone with a kick, therefore making them bleed over time or would they be more suited to gouging at the eyes using their fingers. In the case of facial hair it determines the survivability of your character - a character with a big bushy beard is undeniably going to last longer than a character with, say, a soul patch.

What annoys me is people who claim that toenails on a character is outdated or made redundant by the now common inclusion of shoes as armour. My problem with this is that, again, ANY game can have shoes - MW2 to My lil' pony (i'm assuming there is a game of it) - but these are not RPGs. While I have more to say on this matter I just cannot be bothered to write anymore as of yet.

#25
MacCready

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Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

Silent Protagonist( I perfer)
Quest
Custominzation
Barter:Loot/Trade/Sell/Steal System
Choices
Indepth Leveling System
Good/Great storyline
Indepth Skills system
Party banter(if there is a team system)
Combat that gos with the Game(not some over the top action movie..*COUGH me2 COUGH*)


If you could only choose 3 of these, what would you consider most important.