60 réponses à ce sujet

[Forst1999]

Maybe somewhere this was already explained, but i find it interesting that Legacy suggests that the Old God Dumat is still kicking. Corypheus calls for him to power his spells, defiling his altar gets demons on your ass, while placing the sacrifices pleases the old god. Shouldn't he be dead, being the first Archdemon? To me this could mean several things:
1) The whole "The Old Gods are the Archdemons" thing isn't true. Rather inprobable, given what the Architect told us, and with the story of the Black City being at least mostly true. Just listed for the skeptics.
2) He is dead, the altar contained just a fragment of his power and Corypheus just likes to shout his name.
3) He wasn't destroyed when he was slain. Something similar to Morrigan's dark ritual perhaps? Did someone make a "old god baby" at the end of the first blight, and it is still around? Whatever the origins of the Grey Wardens were, it isn't a big stretch to assume this magic was known. The codex entry for the Archdemon says that a warden died doing the deed, destroying Dumat in the process, but no name is mentioned, which seems a little odd to me. For most Archdemons, we know who killed them (Corin for Zazikel, Garahal for Andoral, Urthemiel depends on DA:O). For Dumat (and Toth, Archi No.3) there is no slayer mentioned.
Looking at the facts, option 2) seems most likely, but wouldn't 3) be interesting? If someone tries to resurrect the Old God pantheon? The "old god baby" would be just a puzzle piece. If it was the only being of this kind, it would be a HUGE optional part of the story, but if there where more of them, i could see resurrected old gods as a core plot point of future DA titles.
Opinions? Thoughts? Corrections?

[Rifneno]

992 TE: The first archdemon, believed to be Dumat, is finally slain after 200 years of blight.

1020 TE: A woman with incredible powers begins a war with Tevinter. Her name is "Andraste."

Oh snap.

[Rahelron]

How old was she at the beginning of the war?

[Forst1999]

No idea how old she was, but her mother's ghost in the gauntlet doesn't look too old (brown hair). Looks like a woman whose daughter could be in her late twenties. Not much to go by, but the best clue i got.

[Rahelron]

My guess:

- The ancient magisters are coming back to life and they want to try to reach the black/golden city once again.
- Morrigan wanted the baby because she thinks that he will be able to reach the black/golden city too.
- DAIII will feature the final face-off between the old gods/ancient magisters and the Morrigan's Son (the player).

- In the DAII expansion pack we will just see Hawke trying to end the war between templars and mages. I think he will be marginally involved in the darkspawn affairs, but nothing more.

[Ginkeh]

As Rifneno says, I`m willing to bet a months salary that Andraste is the Dumat OGB.
Where Dumat`s sould is now though, I have no clue.

[whykikyouwhy]

Andraste being Dumat reborn/repackaged would be interesting. But we would have a scenario where Andraste-dumat was trying to take down Tevinter, and Dumat-the-deity was "working" with the magisters in some capacity. Which could mean that Andraste did not recall her old god state, or there are other machinations at work.

Though the latter is probably a given.

[Ginkeh]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Andraste being Dumat reborn/repackaged would be interesting. But we would have a scenario where Andraste-dumat was trying to take down Tevinter, and Dumat-the-deity was "working" with the magisters in some capacity. Which could mean that Andraste did not recall her old god state, or there are other machinations at work. 

Though the latter is probably a given.

Morrigan said something about the baby, I can`t recall word for word, but something about it being innocent and pure. A normal person, just with the soul of an old god.

At work at the moment, so can`t dive into codexes/wikis to check it out, but I`m sure someone will come along and quote Morrigan word for word any minute now

Edit: Added quote.

Modifié par Ginkeh, 04 août 2011 - 06:26 .

[Fallstar]

Its possible, since the description in Origins says that the first warden (I forget his name) was flung halfway across the battlefield by the blast of energy; since this blast occurs before the 'emission' of the OG soul, it is possible that that first warden was killed due to physical injury from the blast before the OG soul could enter him and be destroyed, allowing the OG soul to enter Andraste's mother. (The same kind of thing Bioware could do with the Morrigan OGB to easily make it canon and not a ret con) What does Andraste's mother say in the gauntlet again?

[Forst1999]

@ Ginkeh
If i remember correctly, she says that the child will be free of the corruption. So it wouldn't be like the Archdemon. But what "having the soul of an old god" entails isn't said.
On Dumat turning on Tevinter: This could also be related to the failed conquest of the golden city. Maybe Dumat was dissapointed with the Magisters? Or maybe he wasn't ever to fond of them and the whole golden city thing wasn't exactly a favor. No way of knowing yet, but there are numerous reasons why Dumat-Andraste would turn on them.

[Ginkeh]

I distinctly remember the word innocent, which leads me to believe that the child won`t actually be Dumat, or have his memories, "personality", or agenda,

Speculation on my part of course, as you said, what having the soul of an old god entails, is unknown.

Modifié par Ginkeh, 04 août 2011 - 06:42 .

[Ulicus]

I tend to imagine Morrison in terms of a forced reincarnation. I think it'd be pretty cool if it took a page from Avatar: The Last Airbender's book in allowing Morrison to "converse" with his past life, though.

[andraip]

yh, and Flemeth is Andraste

[TheJediSaint]

This again? I thought it was clear that Cory was getting his power from the statues.

[Darius Vir]

At this point, Dumat seems too influential to Thedas for me to believe he's gone for good.

The way the First Blight happened and ended just seems very weird to me. The Grey Wardens somehow figure out HOW to be Grey Wardens. They figure out the need for this ritual and specifically how to do it. Then much later on, Morrigan knows (from Flemeth) that the Dark Ritual can do what it does. Yeah.....

I'm totally on board with the Andraste OGB baby thing. It's not proof, but the timeline screams this.

My random, crazy addition to the theory is that the Grey Wardens- or at least the leadership at Weisshaupt- know exactly what is going on and are complicit with it.  I think the Grey Wardens may actually be Dumat lackeys/acolytes in some bizarre way. 

Modifié par Darius Vir, 04 août 2011 - 07:53 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

The Grey Wardens are actually a secret society, part of a Thedas-spanning conspiracy to topple the reigning governments and install themselves as god-emperors. They make sure the darkspawn find each Old God, and with each Blight, they get more political power in return for their help. The darkspawn are just tools, the Old Gods are just tools. The First Warden is the real mastermind!

The truth is out there!

[Sepewrath]

Well its probable since the order started in a situation of total war, that record keeping would be a bit sketchy. So not having the name of the person who killed Dumat is really not that hard to believe. After all the magical shenanigans with the Sacred Ashes, that altar didn't strike me as impressive. Not really buying the whole Andraste angle, if anything, I would say the most likely conclusion is that these Archdemons are nothing but corrupt dragons and not gods. And these gods never had anything to do with these Blights, so in that vain, Dumat could be alive. But if the Archdemons are in fact the Old Gods, then Dumat is dead.

[TexasToast712]

 It just means that Corypheus had no knowledge of the blights and darkspawn and believed that Dumat was still kicking. He also believed that the Tevinter empire was still as powerful as it used to be. He didnt even know he was a darkspawn.

[Obadiah]

Rifneno wrote...

992 TE: The first archdemon, believed to be Dumat, is finally slain after 200 years of blight.

1020 TE: A woman with incredible powers begins a war with Tevinter. Her name is "Andraste."

Oh snap.

But she got burned alive and killed through standard betrayal. Andraste doesn't really seem THAT powerfull, just charismatic.

[Harid]

Dunno why people think Dumat is Andraste. Andraste did a few things I would not see an old god doing, like tearing down tevinter for some reason, but it wouldn't surprise me given Bioware quality writing nowadays.  Why would Dumat send Morrigan to steal another Old god soul, only to one day desire to supplant that soul?  What is this, Old God Baby Highlander?  There can be only ONE!  Wait, now I am mixing two theories together.

I mean, people just seemingly guess what Old god the Archdemon was when slain. They could simply be wrong about the choices they made. It's not like we've met a willing Old god to tell people if the scholars were correct. How could they even prove which archdemon was which old god in the first place?

Not even to mention of course the first one would seem the most powerful when they had no idea how to kill it yet.  I have a feeling Dumat will be the last Archdemon to fall.

Modifié par Harid, 04 août 2011 - 10:58 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Wouldn't Andraste being an Old God, actually require the Grey Warden who slew Dumat, to have survived?

[whykikyouwhy]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wouldn't Andraste being an Old God, actually require the Grey Warden who slew Dumat, to have survived?

I think there is some speculation that the Grey Warden who may have delivered the killing blow is actually alive (or was, post-battle), since he/she is never named. That Warden's name is not part of any legend and doesn't seem to have been recorded.

[Darius Vir]

I remember reading that not only did the Warden who killed Dumat die, but EVERY other Grey Warden present died at that battle, too.   Which doesn't really necessitate anything, but it's notable. 

I'm trying to find the exact reference.

Modifié par Darius Vir, 05 août 2011 - 02:33 .