739 réponses à ce sujet

[ariseric]

I don't think so. Hopefully the warden will be part of the DA3, but not the main character

[Realmzmaster]

valentine3 wrote...

BG and dragon age is not the same story.Bg has nothing to do with the thedas world.
J.k Rowlings wrote a novel series not a r.p.j game that had you making your own choices.
The dragon age story belongs to bioware/ea..I dont know if bioware/ea works the same as other companies,but in general a gaming company has their writters but the powers that be has to approve of the story before anything els is done.If they dont like it they can change and tell their writter what they want or what should be changed.
Awakening was a dlc not an actual game but yes it sold less.But then da2 did'nt even reach anywhere near that amount.And need I say more about the dlc. I wrote before that I dont mean they should only listen to dao fans,but business wise it's not just fans complaining,there's chritics,sales and awards .

That said I was only agreeing with morgan rose,who actaully was trying to find a sollution for everyone.And look I dont want to fight with you or upset you,and it's seems that I might just be doing that, so I apologise if I have.But opion is not going to change as I'm sure yours wont either

Awakenings sold 700,000 copies. DA2 sold 2.25 million copies. Awakenings was an expansion not dlc. You bought Awakenings off the self. Most upper management does not get involved in the creative process of a game. The only concern upper managment has is will it make money and is it under or at budget. Upper managment does not tell the writers what to write that is left to the Lead Designer. There is no solution for everyone. It is not possible. The best you can hope for is to satisfy the majority of the audience.

[Realmzmaster]

Stoomkal wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Bioware is going to do what Bioware wants to do. Bioware will take fan suggestions and comments into consideration. Note I said consideration. Bioware is not going to allow the fanbase to dictate what story Bioware should tell. Bioware may or may not incorporate those suggestions. Given the variety of suggestions it would not be possible to incorporate them all.

David Gaider as head writer and creator of the DA universe will set the plotline and tone for DA3. Bioware is going to tell the story that David Gaider and company want to tell. DA3 will have a new protagonist. The focus of DA3 will be the new character. DA3 may or not draw conclusions to the warden or Hawke stories.

Bioware takes fan feedback seriously, but there is a difference between listening to that feedback and blindly doing what the fanbase wants.

Ummmm...

Writers do not exist in a bubble - althought some think they do.

If you work in the publishing industry, you will never tire of asking a writer this: "What does the audience want?"

They will look at you blankly... "I am writing this for me" they will say.

"Great, sweetie... so why publish?" I will ask.

Publishing is putting out a product that makes people want to read it. Even "Moby Dick" or LotR were written with an *audience* in mind.

What I hear waaay too much is this: "I am writing for myself"

--- That is poetry.

If you are writing, but you are *only* focused on telling the story you want... perhaps keep it to yourself.

Writing is alwasy written *for someone*... it is simply lazy pretentious writers who use the excuse that their unpopular writing was "for themselves" rather than "failed the expectations" of its own audience.

Perhaps DA2 was a *massive* success to David Giader... perhaps that explains his books.

It doesn't matter. His audience would disagree.

And if he is only "writing for himself" then it should be personal - not a product.

Of course you are writing with an audience in mind, but everyone in the audience is not going to agree on what should be written.  The whole DA universe exists because of David Gaider. Just like the D & D universe exists because of Gary Gygax and Dave Anderson. The writers write within that context, but within that context there is a lot of latitude.
I remember a product that came out do to user input and market research. It was called the Edsel. So we tell David Gaider what type of story the fanbase wants based on feedback. So Bioware compiles the feedback and finds it is all over the map. (Which it is.) Who do they listen to. The game and story you want may not be the game and story I want. I appreciate writers who go against what I want and write a story that drags me in even though I thought I would not like it, because it is a story they want to tell.

Game Design is already done by a team. I do not think the team needs to become a community of thousands.

[LTD]

How could Warden be the main character? He died a hero's death to save the world and will be fondly remembered! Shame on you for wanting to taint the memory of  hero of Ferelden by suggesting some foul act of necromancy to be cast upon his bones:l

During pre-release hype of a game that calls itself DA II for some reason, devs often spoke about how it is the world of Thedas that is the " main character" of the Franchise, rather than some specific hero dude being one. I think this an excellent idea.  I see no reason why we should get back to Warden - centered story all over again. I want to see stories of DA and DA III connected and  interwoven to a pretty large degree for sure. It would be cool if people could meet their Warden for example( or visit his grave) however, I have absolutely no desire to play as him. His part in the story is told, I feel.

Modifié par LTD, 09 mars 2012 - 10:14 .

[Aly666]

I would like to see my hero though in future franchises as a npc...
That would be so cool and some fellow travelers doing thier own thing. Just like alistar when he appears in Dage 2 even though it felt sorta pointless his roll was so small probably got mad. The thing with Dage 2; even though i understand kirkwall is a smallish city so the map wasn't as cool and good as feraldin map. Despite that i felt like there wasn't much creativity, like isnt kirkwall the city that controls alot of trade the previous vicount of kirkwall was a tyrant who over charged for tolls from traders,merchants and other citys. Why couldn't there be something involving the port???

[morgan rose]

I believe, at the end of the day, Bioware is a bussiness. Bussinesses make money.
As a bussines you have to make the decision, either you put out a product you like yourself and make less money or put out a product based on market research and make alot more.
Dragon Age origins sold alot more copies than DA2, which means, bussiness wise, it would be better to release a similar product for the sake of having a lucrative bussiness instead of a stubborn one.
Make more money to be able to release even better games in the future?

[esper]

morgan rose wrote...

I believe, at the end of the day, Bioware is a bussiness. Bussinesses make money.
As a bussines you have to make the decision, either you put out a product you like yourself and make less money or put out a product based on market research and make alot more.
Dragon Age origins sold alot more copies than DA2, which means, bussiness wise, it would be better to release a similar product for the sake of having a lucrative bussiness instead of a stubborn one.
Make more money to be able to release even better games in the future?

Da:o also took a lot longer too make which meant it had to make more money than da2 to make itself profitable, and it is not so simple. They split the fanbase with da2, they can't just go back to da:o because that would loose them people as well.

[morgan rose]

esper wrote...

morgan rose wrote...

I believe, at the end of the day, Bioware is a bussiness. Bussinesses make money.
As a bussines you have to make the decision, either you put out a product you like yourself and make less money or put out a product based on market research and make alot more.
Dragon Age origins sold alot more copies than DA2, which means, bussiness wise, it would be better to release a similar product for the sake of having a lucrative bussiness instead of a stubborn one.
Make more money to be able to release even better games in the future?

Da:o also took a lot longer too make which meant it had to make more money than da2 to make itself profitable, and it is not so simple. They split the fanbase with da2, they can't just go back to da:o because that would loose them people as well.

Doa did make alot more money than da2.So it was profitable.,compared to da2.Going back to da2 might cost them to loose more fans

[jbrand2002uk]

LZA_FUNK wrote...

 I think before DA2 came out, alot of people were thinking that the Dragon Age series was going to be like the Mass effect series? A lot of people assumed that the Warden's story was going to be told over multiple installments like Shepard. Bioware had no attention of making the Warden's tale a multiple part series, maybe they weren't clear enough to alot people that Dragon Age wasn't going down that path. To me this is where alot of the negative reactions to Dragon Age 2 is coming from. From all the thousands of negative rants on this forum about this game, it wasn't a terrible game but it could have been much more polished before its release.

Just because both games are made by the same company doesn't mean their going to be same!!!!

I will really don't want to see the Warden return giving the new twist on the Art direction that Dragon Age is going, just
give us Hawke, poor Hawke:blush:

Actually BW were very clear when they said "dragonage is about more than one character" most fans just chose to stick their fingers in their ears and yell blah blah blah I love "The Warden" i'm not listening nah nah nah nah na 

[valentine3]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

LZA_FUNK wrote...

 I think before DA2 came out, alot of people were thinking that the Dragon Age series was going to be like the Mass effect series? A lot of people assumed that the Warden's story was going to be told over multiple installments like Shepard. Bioware had no attention of making the Warden's tale a multiple part series, maybe they weren't clear enough to alot people that Dragon Age wasn't going down that path. To me this is where alot of the negative reactions to Dragon Age 2 is coming from. From all the thousands of negative rants on this forum about this game, it wasn't a terrible game but it could have been much more polished before its release.

Just because both games are made by the same company doesn't mean their going to be same!!!!

I will really don't want to see the Warden return giving the new twist on the Art direction that Dragon Age is going, just
give us Hawke, poor Hawke:blush:

Actually BW were very clear when they said "dragonage is about more than one character" most fans just chose to stick their fingers in their ears and yell blah blah blah I love "The Warden" i'm not listening nah nah nah nah na 

And you dont think that might change due to fan reactions

[morgan rose]

Realmzmaster wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

BG and dragon age is not the same story.Bg has nothing to do with the thedas world.
J.k Rowlings wrote a novel series not a r.p.j game that had you making your own choices.
The dragon age story belongs to bioware/ea..I dont know if bioware/ea works the same as other companies,but in general a gaming company has their writters but the powers that be has to approve of the story before anything els is done.If they dont like it they can change and tell their writter what they want or what should be changed.
Awakening was a dlc not an actual game but yes it sold less.But then da2 did'nt even reach anywhere near that amount.And need I say more about the dlc. I wrote before that I dont mean they should only listen to dao fans,but business wise it's not just fans complaining,there's chritics,sales and awards .

That said I was only agreeing with morgan rose,who actaully was trying to find a sollution for everyone.And look I dont want to fight with you or upset you,and it's seems that I might just be doing that, so I apologise if I have.But opion is not going to change as I'm sure yours wont either

Awakenings sold 700,000 copies. DA2 sold 2.25 million copies. Awakenings was an expansion not dlc. You bought Awakenings off the self. Most upper management does not get involved in the creative process of a game. The only concern upper managment has is will it make money and is it under or at budget. Upper managment does not tell the writers what to write that is left to the Lead Designer. There is no solution for everyone. It is not possible. The best you can hope for is to satisfy the majority of the audience.

Yes right you are and seeing as da2 did'nt make as money as dao, upper managment will get involved.Upper managment use a finace department to see if they have a budget,market research will say what most fans want ,liked or hate,even if you think there is to many opinions they normaly stay on top of these thing.And then upper management wil also decide if story is good enought to make them money.

[valentine3]

morgan rose wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

valentine3 wrote...

BG and dragon age is not the same story.Bg has nothing to do with the thedas world.
J.k Rowlings wrote a novel series not a r.p.j game that had you making your own choices.
The dragon age story belongs to bioware/ea..I dont know if bioware/ea works the same as other companies,but in general a gaming company has their writters but the powers that be has to approve of the story before anything els is done.If they dont like it they can change and tell their writter what they want or what should be changed.
Awakening was a dlc not an actual game but yes it sold less.But then da2 did'nt even reach anywhere near that amount.And need I say more about the dlc. I wrote before that I dont mean they should only listen to dao fans,but business wise it's not just fans complaining,there's chritics,sales and awards .

That said I was only agreeing with morgan rose,who actaully was trying to find a sollution for everyone.And look I dont want to fight with you or upset you,and it's seems that I might just be doing that, so I apologise if I have.But opion is not going to change as I'm sure yours wont either

Awakenings sold 700,000 copies. DA2 sold 2.25 million copies. Awakenings was an expansion not dlc. You bought Awakenings off the self. Most upper management does not get involved in the creative process of a game. The only concern upper managment has is will it make money and is it under or at budget. Upper managment does not tell the writers what to write that is left to the Lead Designer. There is no solution for everyone. It is not possible. The best you can hope for is to satisfy the majority of the audience.

Yes right you are and seeing as da2 did'nt make as money as dao, upper managment will get involved.Upper managment use a finace department to see if they have a budget,market research will say what most fans want ,liked or hate,even if you think there is to many opinions they normaly stay on top of these thing.And then upper management wil also decide if story is good enought to make them money.

How do you know if majority of fans would'nt like to chose their own protagonist?

[Kail Ashton]

Given that bioware has all but confirmed DA3 is in Orlais, i highly doubt the "hero of feralden" would be the lead charecter, pluss biowares pretty adamant bout not paying 6 diff voice actors to do the warden apparntly.

Definetly not a technical problem as saint's row the third has 7 diffrent voiced leads (zombie being the best obviously) who do diff accents and such for a 30+ hour storyline where they're central talkitive charecters

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Besides a good voice actor can do several voices. I know I have done it for minor productions and can do plain old American, Deep south American, Texas American, New Zealand, Aussie, Whales, Savant or Downs in any of them as well. So One actor could voice several characters. better to pay one good male and one good female the price of three mediocre actors than to pay 6-12 mediocre ones to do the voices.

[jbrand2002uk]

DA2 actors were pretty darn good, Are you aware that the same VA did the voice for male Hawke and Xennon the Antiquarian from black Emporium DLC ?.

As for Valentines question about will their position about a new PC in game change due to fan reaction,

My answer is no it wont likely change because any decent writer worth their salt does not allow public or popular opinion to interfere with their creative vision, its not our place to tell Mr Gaider how to write his stories, buying the games and books etc simply gives you the right to an opinion not creative control over the franchise.

[valentine3]

The writter is'nt the only one that decides about the story and I dont remeber writting hey" Mr Gaider this is what you have to write"
Actually I've never said anything about how the storyline should be.My opinion was that fans should experience the story with the protagonist they want.
Even Frank Gibeau said that fan feed back will be taken more seriously.
It's not just about someones vision,but about a company making money.
And the opion about choosing a protagonist was trying to find a solution for everyone,not just the majority origin fan,but hawke fans or those who want a new protagonist.
Instead I'm not screaming I want my warden back or crying for hawke.My OPINION is to find a balance.I think fan reaction should be taken more seriously seeing as da2 did'nt do that good and me3 seems to have problems too

[Tommyspa]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...

Besides a good voice actor can do several voices. I know I have done it for minor productions and can do plain old American, Deep south American, Texas American, New Zealand, Aussie, Whales, Savant or Downs in any of them as well.

That's Wales... not Whales

Lol, obviously Whales requires more talent!

[Alexander1136]

LTD wrote...

How could Warden be the main character? He died a hero's death to save the world and will be fondly remembered! Shame on you for wanting to taint the memory of  hero of Ferelden by suggesting some foul act of necromancy to be cast upon his bones:l

During pre-release hype of a game that calls itself DA II for some reason, devs often spoke about how it is the world of Thedas that is the " main character" of the Franchise, rather than some specific hero dude being one. I think this an excellent idea.  I see no reason why we should get back to Warden - centered story all over again. I want to see stories of DA and DA III connected and  interwoven to a pretty large degree for sure. It would be cool if people could meet their Warden for example( or visit his grave) however, I have absolutely no desire to play as him. His part in the story is told, I feel.

See the thing is, your wardens dead. Mine is alive, he's got a god baby, a sexy witch lady, and he's ready to take over the world maybe just save it:innocent: or wipe out the darkspawn:whistle: It'd be cool to at least see him and morrigan again like out in the middle of no where saying" was up.(pwns some darkspawn ). i should " that would be fine with me.

[Realmzmaster]

I will pose the question. My warden's (minus the one that did the US) are all 35th level and all my Hawkes are above 25th level with one reaching 28th. How is Bioware going to find balance in DA3 if it includes the warden and Hawke as a choice of protagonists along with a new protagonist? This the problem that pen and paper D & D had with balance eventually you had Epic and Immortal rules for D & D so that gamers could take their characters and party beyond level 20.

The problem is that you must also scale the monsters and challenges to match the God like characters. What is the warden and Hawke suppose to do start throwing around planets? Or do we see a variety of different dragons from red to platinum as common as huge rats?

How do you level up a new protagonist? Does the new protagonist start at level 25? What kind of tutorial do you write for a newbie who wants to play DA3?

[DarkAmaranth1966]

And the cure would likely be mods ( such as the level to 100 with scaling enemies).

IF they do Hawke or the Warden as an option (which I doubt) I assume that for balance they would start either the same as a new pc or, in a different scenario that accounted for their higher level.

[Soltan Heatwave]

I agree with the new characters. I had wardens that died, had Alister / Logain die and did the dark ritual. I did have a real problem in DA2 with seeing Anders at a low level again. When I left him in DA-A he was a level 30. How did he lose that many levels? It just doesn't make sense having your epic character starting as 1st level again. There are a number of ways another character can be brought into the conflict, as a mage who is tired of seeing fellow mages kill, being killed or turning into abominations and just want the war to end. Same for a Templar character, or even a survivor of a village or city that was leveled by both sides in their conflict. Even the mages collective could try something. My warden's story ended in DAO when he died, or in DA-A when after the fight with the mother he returned to be king, Orzammar, or whereever. WH is a DLC that so far hasn't become cannon. I don't think they will ever have a mod kit available again, because not many people can make mods with the newer engines, the programming needed is to advanced for most people to write their own. While, I'll quit my rambling. =)

[Uccio]

My Warden is ready to continue his epic adventure. He went through the eluvian with Morrigan and their god child to be with them and see this storyline through. Also, with Avernu´s experiments he is ready to cure all warders and start a massive war to purge the Deep Roads. His story is no where near the end.

[Realmzmaster]

DarkAmaranth1966 wrote...

And the cure would likely be mods ( such as the level to 100 with scaling enemies).

IF they do Hawke or the Warden as an option (which I doubt) I assume that for balance they would start either the same as a new pc or, in a different scenario that accounted for their higher level.

Mods assume a toolkit or that Bioware allows access to the assets of  DA3. The only scaling of enemies you get is in hit points and mana which many on this forum decry because it does nothing to change how the enemy attacks, uses tactics or magic. It simply makes the combat longer and tedious. Unless the programmers write different attack scripts with different abilities if the game is facing either Hawke or the warden.

Having Hawke or the warden start at level one would cause an outcry which would make the disaapointment (for some) of DA2 look small.

Most gamers would not accept nerfing their character back to level one. Which means that Bioware would have to write three different stories at the start. The warden and Hawke's stories would have to account for where they have been.  Also for the warden do you allow imports from only Origins or do you include Awakenings. It does make a noticable difference. Also nothing from dlc would be considered canon.

The longest story would have to be the new protagonist since he/she would have to level up.
Now Bioware could write three separate stories from beginning to end for Hawke, warden and new protagonist for DA3. I do believe most gamers want to see the game in this decade.

The simplest route is to have a new protagonist and mention the warden and Hawke's endings in DA3 or have them appear as NPCs in some capacity.

[jbrand2002uk]

If Hawke and Warden were to be incorporated as PC's along with the new character how about starting them at say Level 10-15 that way the level drop isnt too big to be insulting but not so small that the player is godlike at the start