107 réponses à ce sujet

[PXXL]

heyimacrab wrote...

i think the collecters are actulally the prtheans how about that theory!

That's not theory, it's fact. 

[PXXL]

Greer wrote...

PXXL wrote...

Lots off "hero" Squids if you look at the ending shot of ME2 

The devs have actually said that the "squid" carapace of the Reaper is merely an outer shell, and that underneath each "squid" is a species-appropriate Reaper.

I know this, although..

Arcian wrote...
The "hero" is then given a dreadnought shell to possess - created from his or her own species - which will serve as his or her new bodily vessel in service to the Reapers.

So he is talking about the shell, not the core.

[Deathspazm]

I was hoping we might get a glimpse of the inner reaper larva
Or whTever you want to call what's inside the shell when we did
The IFF mission,I tried looking up in the main hall before your team
says something about snipers,but couldn't tell if that was it or not
But I don't think it was.

[PXXL]

Arcian wrote...

PXXL wrote...

Greer wrote...

PXXL wrote...

Lots off "hero" Squids if you look at the ending shot of ME2 

The devs have actually said that the "squid" carapace of the Reaper is merely an outer shell, and that underneath each "squid" is a species-appropriate Reaper.

I know this, although..

Arcian wrote...
The "hero" is then given a dreadnought shell to possess - created from his or her own species - which will serve as his or her new bodily vessel in service to the Reapers.

So he is talking about the shell, not the core.

Semantics. "Shell" in this case is used to describe the entire Reaper, both the core and the... "carapace".

So like i said.. allot of squid heroes in the ending shot of ME2

[TuringPoint]

I have a similar theory.

I believe Reaper-ness is more than just the individual ships working together. It is a force not unlike indoctrination itself, but due to the hybrid nature of what a Reaper is, a Reaper doesn't lose cognitive function from it. Perhaps creating more Reapers gets all of them a stronger connection to whatever this 'reaper-mind' is. Reaper artifacts indoctrinate in such a way as to make the servants believe they are a part of something bigger than them. From what I've seen I believe it's true.

[Destroy Raiden_]

If we're going into darkspace to take out the real reapers then it better have super defenses unlike their collector lackeys one ship, one base, a few laser eyes spheres are very poor defenses then internally all we got were bugs, bugs, and space zombies not my idea of a defensive inner force. I'd also like to get real intel this time 2 lacked that completely.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 27 septembre 2011 - 04:17 .

[darthnick427]

I AM ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF THIS THREAD

............(realizes he didn't read the OP and just wanted to type this)...........

RELEASING CONTROL

[TheHarbingerOfYourPerfection]

Nice theory. I've also read somewhere, that the reapers also indocrinated the Rachni during the war with the Krogans. To weaken the galaxy forces.

[Absafraginlootly]

Well put together theroy.

Not sure whether I agree with it or not but it's something to think about. Wasn't sure about your interpretation of the cut monologue... where was it cut from?

[Ahriman]

Well thought theory.
It would be funny if it came true.
ME1
Shepard: That's not a Reaper ship, that's an actual Reaper!
ME3
Shepard: That's not an actual Reaper, that's a Reaper ship!

[RyuujinZERO]

I've long had the impression the reapers are a "collective" of minds, similar in many respects to the geth, where many programs share a single platform. The reapers sow useful candidate technologies, allow the races to grow to be able to use that and then harvest them to "reproduce", incorporating into their collective the knowledge and insights of other species that they themselves might not have made.

The monologue from the indoctrinated guy seems to confirm that, that the minds incorperated into the reaper shell are not "destroyed", but become seamless. The many of system shock 2 or the unified state in evangelion after the AT fields break down are similar concepts. I do challenge the "reaper minds have a single base" idea. The indoctrinated guy and sovereign both seem to say that the reaper itself is an independant platform of minds and not a shell like the collectors under control.

Not to mention that a single reaper base gives them an inexcusably easy weak spot to attack and a horribly cliche hollywood victory.

Ironiclly, if it IS as it appears, the reapers might genuinely be onto something... long live the reapers? ;p

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 30 septembre 2011 - 01:35 .

[111987]

The video supports some of the ideas you brought up in your theory...just in case you haven't seen it yet.

www.youtube.com

[Blacklash93]

Pretty well thought out theory. I like it so much I actually hope it ends up being true.

I've also thought the twin relay of the Citadel was also a giant space station. What else could it possibly be? It at least has to be a massive normal relay. The question is what it would be used for and it being the hub for the "masters" as you call them makes perfect sense considering what the Reapers value themselves as.

Why would the Reapers truly put themselves in danger given that they're supposed to be what is basically a living archive of a species' memories and genetics that is meant to be preserved for eternity? Regardless of how powerful you are, would you risk that in battle?

Also are we sure where that monologue is supposed to come from? Some say it was from the human-reaper and others say it was from some indoctrinated guy.

[davidt0504]

A very interesting theory although convoluted :/ nothing against it but it could easily be reduced to well then what if the "Masters" are just pawns too, and their masters pawns to even greater masters. And the theory really doesn't lend any help to the plot as a whole except to give a quick way out in the end by temporarily disabling the defenses of the "Slaves".

Although I think its a fair point to add to any and all of these theories that one of the great things about the writing in Mass Effect is that things aren't always as they seem. We are not standing outside the story in a 3rd person perspective (even though its a 3rd person shooter lol) but its a first person narrative, and singularly restricted to the vantage point of Shepard. For example, Captain Anderson was adamant about Saren's motivations being that he hated humans, and while that was true it was by no means even close to his motivations. And we were told that the geth were all bad but that wasn't the case, we were told the Protheans built the citadel and the relays but that wasn't the case, the point being is that the character of Shepard (our vantage point) is limited to the knowledge of those around him and what he can glean from the world, so it is always possible for information to be false as it has been shown in the past.

[Shermos]

Not a bad idea, but I suspect the truth is simpler than you think in your theory. The Reapers harvest species like humanity as a form of reproduction. The 'many minds' inside Nazara (Sovereign) were the collective knowledge and experiences of the species - or rather members of the species - harvested to build it. The "each are a nation" quote from Nazara seems to prove this.

The question for me is: Why bother doing this? Is it just a natural drive to reproduce or is there some higher purpose being worked towards on a time scale humans can't naturally comprehend? "We simply are" seems to indicate the former. 

As far as all this talk of evolution goes, the Reapers seem pretty stagnant to me. They appear to view themselves as the pinnacle of technology and social development and thus are no longer progressing. Other races could overtake them given enough time. Species that don't change, die.

Modifié par Shermos, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:32 .

[Wavanova]

One of my theories on Reapers and their origins/motives that I've had for a while could actually work in tandem with this one. I'll use a few (slightly misquoted) lines of ME2 dialogue to introduce the idea:

Kenson: "We can't go through with the project, we don't know enough about what the Reapers want."

Harbinger: "That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

Shepard: "You think there's something even stronger than the Reapers?"
Garrus: "You never know."

Additionally, Legion states that the Reapers are made of millions of individual consciousnesses.

All of this leads me to believe that ME3 could reveal the Reapers to actually be the "good guys" in a sense, burdened with defending the galaxy from an even greater destructive power. The Reapers grow their numbers by allowing organic life to grow, and then harvesting the entire galaxy periodically. They do this not to destroy the galaxy, but to preserve the consciousness and life of the beings that live there from something that would seek to destroy them all, immortalizing organics and bringing them into their community.

The failed Prothean Reaper and Human Reaper are meant to be representations of an entire species. Genetically, the bodies are pumped into it, and as Legion says, the Reapers retain millions of individual programs that give it a collective consciousness.  These species-based reapers are biological and psychological archives of entire civilizations in battle-ready format. Ultimately, the Reapers' "destruction" of the galaxy is actually them ascending its inhabitants to a more powerful and integrated form so that they can assist in fighting off the evil that lies behind the Dark Space.

Harbinger even refers to them as human's "genetic destiny," implying that Reapers are the next level of human (or any organic life's) evolution. The Reapers return to dark space after a harvest not necessarily to hibernate, but to continue fighting off whatever beyond it is threatening them with their newly constructed reinforcements.

The "slave" Reapers Arcian mentioned in his theory at the beginning of this thread could serve as tbattleships to fight off this extragalactic foe from reaching the "Master's" central HQ of the dark space relay.  The "slaves" are reaperized civilizations, and the Masters are the original race that built the Reapers to defend the galaxy from the outside threat.  It is all part of an ancient war, millions of years old, to retain control of that Dark Space relay.

This also explains away a few of the common questions about Reapers I've seen too, such as why their evolution seems so stiffled if they're so advanced and why their technology is still relatively unadvanced considering that they've existed for millions of years.   It seemingly takes an entire fleet of these ancient beings just to pose a threat to a civilization that was rubbing stones together to make fire just a few thousand years prior.  Wouldn't you think a civilization that has existed for millions of years would be significantly stronger than that?  The reason for their lack of proper development is that they've been struggling to survive for so long that they haven't had a chance to better themselves or build better weaponry.  They've had to continue this seemingly endless cycle of harvesting for so long just so that they could continue to defend their home.

I think a kind of neat ending (though very unexpected and Neon Genesis Evangelion-esque) for ME3 with this theory would be that Shepard can find this out and choose to believe it, and consequently, allow the Reapers to finish their harvest so that they can continue defending the galaxy, or Shepard can choose to ultimately destroy the Reapers instead, choosing not to accept their help, allowing the galaxy to technologically "develop its own path," as Legion would say, and to work together to fight off anything that may come their way (obvious Paragon option.)

Modifié par Wavanova, 20 octobre 2011 - 04:42 .

[JeffZero]

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet (gotta run in a sec; will read the comments later) but it's already been confirmed that what happened to Sovereign at the end of ME1 was as simple as Shepard killing Saren's husk form screwing with its mind and making it vulnerable.

It's in a tweet dating only a month or two back. I'll try to find it later if necessary.

[C2NLY]

Been throwing this around in my head for a bit, if harbinger controlled the collector general, and theres millions more reapers with him, couldnt they do the same to other people, slowly and discreetly collecting intel for the forthcoming attack, and givign assists when they do come (deactivating AA guns etc.) sort of like sleeper agents.

[SandTrout]

C2NLY wrote...

Been throwing this around in my head for a bit, if harbinger controlled the collector general, and theres millions more reapers with him, couldnt they do the same to other people, slowly and discreetly collecting intel for the forthcoming attack, and givign assists when they do come (deactivating AA guns etc.) sort of like sleeper agents.

Indoctrination is a relatively short-ranged effect which must occure from close-proximity technology prior to direct intervention by the Reapers.

[Wavanova]

C2NLY wrote...

Been throwing this around in my head for a bit, if harbinger controlled the collector general, and theres millions more reapers with him, couldnt they do the same to other people, slowly and discreetly collecting intel for the forthcoming attack, and givign assists when they do come (deactivating AA guns etc.) sort of like sleeper agents.

Yes, that's the whole point of indoctrination...to create non-Reaper agents.  The indoctrination technology requires close-range contact to be effective though, otherwise they could easily just brainwash the whole galaxy from in Dark Space without ever having to mobilize. 

[C2NLY]

[quote]Arcian wrote...

 As we learn late in the game, Harbinger is actually with the Reaper fleet outside the galaxy, directing the Collector General through what is believed to be some kind of quantum entanglement technology. [quote]

if Harbinger is close enough to indoctrinate the collector general (who is in the centre of the galaxy) then surely, the rest of them are able to indoctrinate lifeforms in the fringes of the milky way, including the citadel.

Modifié par C2NLY, 20 octobre 2011 - 11:15 .

[Wavanova]

You're forgetting that the Collector General used to be a Prothean...ALL of the Collectors used to be Protheans, for that matter.  Of course they've been indoctrinated, they were all in direct physical contact with the Reapers at one point; they were harvested by them and repurposed both biologically and psychologically to be agents of the Reapers.

The ability to control an indoctrinated being is clearly extremely long-range.  However, internal logic of the ME universe makes it very clear that indoctrination can only initially BEGIN by direct close-range contact with Reaper technology meant to indoctrinate.  Once a lifeform is indoctrinated, they can be controlled from any distance.  If what you're saying were true, the Reapers could just sit there and make the whole galaxy brainwashed into coming to them without having to lift a single tentacle.  The Battle of the Citadel would have never happened, hell, the entire ME franchise would have just not happened.

Modifié par Wavanova, 21 octobre 2011 - 12:00 .

[matt-bassist]

Memmahkth wrote...

 Interesting, but I can't get behind it.  You're at least consistent within your theory.

There could easily be an HQ or even some kind of .. super structure out in darkspace to connect all the reapers as they wait in hibernation.  That could be.  I'm not sure there is.

I also find it more likely, that the Reapers want Shepard because he would be a huge asset for them to have!  They had a spectre before (Saren) and Shepard stopped him.  Saren proved himself to be a great resource for the Reapers to operate and bring down the galactic civilisations.  It would make sense that the Reapers would want Shepard for this same reasoning although, not the same plan.

I do believe that the Reapers are an amalgum of different processes/programs just like the geth.  Although, you bring up a good point in why the Reapers then refer to themselves as "I" and not "we".  But this can be explained away by the Reapers being intelligent enough to refer to each ship as I.

Nice to read other perspectives though.

I've been saying this for a while now. There simply HAS to be an option where, after the big twist that the Reapers aren't actually bad, but that they're doing their reaping for "the greater good", you can join them and become their vanguard, just like Saren was. IT would be the absolute ultimate twist and they could leave it ambiguous and not clarify if the Reapers are actually telling the truth or not.