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[EmperorSahlertz]

Did it now? Didn't Marethari die (and possibly her entire clan), as a direct result of your trust? Had you not trusted Merrill, and prevented her from working on the Eluvian, a lot of pain could have been avoided.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Did it now? Didn't Marethari die (and possibly her entire clan), as a direct result of your trust? Had you not trusted Merrill, and prevented her from working on the Eluvian, a lot of pain could have been avoided.

An Eluvian was fixed, a way to purge the darkspawn taint was found, and a pride abomination was killed. All in a few years' work, I say.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Eluvian was destroyed before it was tested. For all we know, the reactivation of it would cause it to become corrupted again. The only thing remotely good comming out of trusting Merrill is the slaying of a Pride Demon. That however, simply means you've freed it, and send it back to the Fade where it can regain strength. So basically, nothing good comes from trusting Merrill. Other than plot advancement...

[esper]

The Eluvian isn't destroyed in my play through.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Eluvian was destroyed before it was tested. For all we know, the reactivation of it would cause it to become corrupted again. The only thing remotely good comming out of trusting Merrill is the slaying of a Pride Demon. That however, simply means you've freed it, and send it back to the Fade where it can regain strength. So basically, nothing good comes from trusting Merrill. Other than plot advancement...

If you corrupted Merrill's faith in herself to the point where she destroys it, yes. I don't, personally. In any case, without me she could well have gotten killed and Marethari-as-abomination could have done who-knows-what with the Dalish clan.

[Tainan7509]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Tainan7509 wrote...

IN DA2:
My opinion on blood mages?
They are just trouble makers. That's all.

My opinion on templars?
They are responsible for those trouble makers.

My opinion on blood magic?
It is an evil path just like The sith in the Star Wars.

I'm surprised so many view blood magic as an evil path. There are Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to stop the darkspawn, and The Joining can be viewed as blood magic, so I don't see blood mages as an "evil" path, especially if the mages use it to protect themselves against the templars who can nullify their magical abilities.

Yeah well in my fem Hawke's point of view. Her mother was killed by a blood mage who used blood magic for his own selfishness desire. 
However, you are right at that sometime the blood magic is necessary needed in the situation like legacy for seal.

[Cody]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Did it now? Didn't Marethari die (and possibly her entire clan), as a direct result of your trust? Had you not trusted Merrill, and prevented her from working on the Eluvian, a lot of pain could have been avoided.

She died because she was an idiot. And her clan can suffer for her stupidity. How was she dumb? Well lets see..

-She never bothered to help Merril study the Eluvians because they were "so bad". Even though she provided no good reasoning for it other than one example which the mirrior was tainted at the time. That problem was fixed when Merril cleansed it. Her other reasoning? The demon told her it was evil...one who was trapped for centuries in a statue and could never escape. While preaching to Merril about not trusting demons, yet she trusted his word when she became an Abomination!

A lot of pain could have been avoided if Marethari was actually smart and a good leader. She alienated Merril from the clan when she should have watched over her to make sure she doesn't make a mistake. And instead of following her own advice she believes what a demon says and becomes an abomination.....just....wow...

[dragonflight288]

In my opinion, we can't blame Merrill for Merethari's actions. Merethari was a rationale adult who could make her own decisions. She just let motherly feelings get in the way of logic.

Nor can we blame Merrill for the actions of the Clan. Merethari feared the darkspawn taint in the eluvian. And so she told everyone that Merrill was bringing back the taint.

Duncan outright states in the Dalish Origin that the mirror is tainted. Merrill cleansed the taint so what affected Tamlen and the potential warden is not an issue any more. Also, no blood magic was used to rebuild it, merely to cleanse it.

And the fact that Merrill does not become infected, nor any of her neighbors in the alienage for almost a decade, is proof that she succeeded in cleansing it.

Merrill was naive to any culture outside of her clan. And even then she was isolated because she was the Keeper's First.

All the clan knew was what Merethari told them, and many refused to even listen to what Merrill had to say. You can't blame her for that.

[molech322]

Personally I don't see how Blood magic can be considered evil inherently. It's magic like any other and it depends on how one uses it, although its tendency for abuse far outweighs any other known schools of magic. The reason is being able to control others unwillingly and use their blood for your own selfish ends.

[Medhia Nox]

I view blood magic - like I view slavery. Useful? You betcha - but it's corrupt from the start.

Unless of course - cutting yourself is totally normal. If only all these blood mages would start with their own throats or wrists - we wouldn't have an issue with craven powermongers.

[Xilizhra]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I view blood magic - like I view slavery. Useful? You betcha - but it's corrupt from the start.

Unless of course - cutting yourself is totally normal. If only all these blood mages would start with their own throats or wrists - we wouldn't have an issue with craven powermongers.

That is how we see blood magic generally being used in-game, isn't it?

[TEWR]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I view blood magic - like I view slavery. Useful? You betcha - but it's corrupt from the start.

Unless of course - cutting yourself is totally normal. If only all these blood mages would start with their own throats or wrists - we wouldn't have an issue with craven powermongers.

Hawke, Merrill, the Warden, Orsino (sadly because the Plot demanded he be stupid) Decimus, Grace, etc.


Of those, the last 3 do it because of plot stupidity and the other 3 do it in a smart manner. 

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz, the elves in the Elven Ruins were infected from the remaining shards of the Eluvian. Since Merrill isn't infected, it stands to reason she cleansed the shard, and that being intact has nothing to do with an infected Eluvian's ability to corrupt people.

Also, the Eluvian could have provided an unexpected and transcendent change for the elves across the continent, who have been impoverished or nomadic for centuries now.

[dragonflight288]

At the very least, allowed the clans to communicate with each other more effectively. Imagine how much easier the clan would have it if they could contact another clan after losing their halla, and have more brought to them within a few months by another clan.

[Neminea]

For as far as I can tell, you can only do Blood magic if you made a pact with a demon.
- Anders says so in banter with Fenris
- Your warden in Da:O unlocks it by making a deal with a demon. Imo making other party members blood mages is part of the game mechanics, not the story canon
- Even Merrill admits she had to make a pact with a demon to do it

While the magic itself may or may not be evil in and of itself, the way to get it certainly is. Demons are evil, no matter how you turn it. Ergo in my opinion, the use of blood magic is evil.

[Xilizhra]

Anders also says that you can become one accidentally in banter with Merrill, remember.

[Gespenst]

^ And presumably it's passed on from mage to mage in the Imperium, there are books on the subject (First Enchanter Irving has some in his office) which are probably rounded up so people can't read them (which in turn is probably why mages turn to demons to learn it).

I've never heard a very compelling reason why Blood Magic is, in and of itself, evil. Because you can learn it from a demon? Because you can, if you are so inclined, use other people's blood to power it? (That's the Chantry's official reason)

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Anders also says that you can become one accidentally in banter with Merrill, remember.

I think that was wishful thinking rather than fact.

[Xilizhra]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Anders also says that you can become one accidentally in banter with Merrill, remember.

I think that was wishful thinking rather than fact.

Note that blood magic can be learned from a book, it being taught to other party members involves fairly explicit dialogue, it's also passed down by mages in the Tevinter Imperium, and there's no suggestion in DA2 when you're learning it that it had to come from a demon.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Anders also says that you can become one accidentally in banter with Merrill, remember.

I think that was wishful thinking rather than fact.

I don't know. Thedas has established that blood does have power. I think anyone can stumble upon the power of blood magic, but because it's a forgotten arcane art (save for in Tevinter) only demons can teach a person how to safely use it.

If they're lucky, they'll find a book and won't have to contact a demon.

I also think the only reason blood magic leads to possession is due to sheer arrogance on the part of the mage.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Anders also says that you can become one accidentally in banter with Merrill, remember.

I think that was wishful thinking rather than fact.

Note that blood magic can be learned from a book, it being taught to other party members involves fairly explicit dialogue, it's also passed down by mages in the Tevinter Imperium, and there's no suggestion in DA2 when you're learning it that it had to come from a demon.

No, but learning it by accident is a bit farfetched. That would be like learning the Newtonian laws by being punched in the face.

I think it can be taught by other things than demons though.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Herr Uhl wrote...



I think that was wishful thinking rather than fact.

I agree. Anders has difficulty understand or accepting that mages would volunatarily turn to blood magic, a practice he finds abhorrent (or more likely, Justice does, since Awakening Anders didn't seem to hold a really strong opinion on the matter).

Blood magic  requires full concious effort of a mage to harness and tap into the blood and its power. If one could "accidentally" cast blood magic simply from bleeding or whatever, I think every Circle in Thedas would end up full of accidental blood mages everytime someone got a paper cut or stubbed their toe.

[macrocarl]

Blood magic seems to up the ante. Normal non bloody magic doesn't seem to be able to undo something done with blood magic. Like it's super glue. But to be an actual blood mage you'd have to walk a super thin line if you want to stay in control. Seems the writing of it, how it's used in the game, starts with the intention to use it in the first place........ In DA2 it always seems to turns out badly. Which kind of makes sense for Hawke if you play the character of a blood mage.

[macrocarl]

By the way, off topic, just stubbed my toe about half an hour ago. My microwaved popcorn attacked me. Coincidence?

[Xilizhra]

In DA2 it always seems to turns out badly. Which kind of makes sense for Hawke if you play the character of a blood mage.

Why so?