886 réponses à ce sujet

[Out to Lunch]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

What I would like to see introduced and emphasized are the beneficial aspects of blood magic. Make people (both player and character [and NPC]) see blood magic in a new light. That was something that could have been emphasized more in DA2 IMO.

The only time you see a blood mage doing anything beneficial in DA (so far) is when it's done by the player.

Maybe the writers do not plan on using blood magic in a beneficial way. Keeping blood magic a negative is good for the story-at least for now.

[TEWR]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

What I would like to see introduced and emphasized are the beneficial aspects of blood magic. Make people (both player and character [and NPC]) see blood magic in a new light. That was something that could have been emphasized more in DA2 IMO.

The only time you see a blood mage doing anything beneficial in DA (so far) is when it's done by the player.

I believe it can be used medicinally to help control the blood flow of a seriously injured person.

We also know the Joining is blood magic, which has helped the Wardens stave off the Darkspawn. Not only that, but Wardens use blood magic to kill Darkspawn. Finally, we know it can cleanse things of the taint and can prolong the taint from overcoming a person's body. Perhaps it can be the cure to the Blight disease itself?

[dragonflight288]

In Awakening (which I'm currently playing now). Justice in a banter with Velanna is asking her about her murdering many innocent humans of a crime she perceived they committed.

He tells her that Justice must be served, and that she must atone. No violence is even mentioned. Justice merely states that her pride and hatred drove her to commit her acts of aggression so she must make it up to other humans by not being so judgemental as she had been.

In DA2 however, he is more than willing to kill Ella based on association.

Seems like he has become just a little bit more bloodthirsty since the merging.

I still share Merrill's opinion that every spirit is dangerous, demon or otherwise, because a single ideal taken to an extreme is always a dangerous thing.

[TEWR]

I like to think Justice thought Ella was possessed by a demon.

I can feel their hold on her!

Though obviously she wasn't.

[dragonflight288]

He may have been referring to the templar's dogma and chantry teachings. Heck, maybe even her willingness to do anything the templars said in order to avoid being tranquil, rather than fight.

[cocla]

In Origins I thought it was just a dangerous tool, and fine as long as you werent sacrificing people to use it.

But as there was more exposure to blood magic in DA2, especially showing how closely mages have to deal with demons to learn it, I now think it is evil. To use blood magic you have to deal with demons, and that interaction will eventually either end in the mage being a pupet for demons or posessed. Even Merrill was controlled by a demon in a side quest, for all she said she is careful with them. Blood magic is the hook that demons use to get mages.

If there was a way for mages to learn blood magic without dealing with demons, then it would be fine, but until then it will always lead to evil through the demons influence.

[dragonflight288]

I find books are a fascinating source of knowledge.

[Sepewrath]

cocla wrote...
If there was a way for mages to learn blood magic without dealing with demons, then it would be fine, but until then it will always lead to evil through the demons influence.

You mean like those books that people learn them from lol. Jowan learned it from a book and if I remember correctly, Idunna said she and others learning from those books you destroy.

[Sith Grey Warden]

There are two problems I see with Blood Magic: demons, and mind manipulation.

1. Demons. Unless you happen to have a tome on blood magic (which the Chantry makes hard to get), or know a blood mage, the only way to learn to use blood magic is through demons. Consorting with demons is more stupid than anything else since they always try to possess the mage in question. Even in Merill's case, things go awry with Marethari and possibly their entire clan dying. But if you can learn to use blood magic without consorting with demons, great. Until you encounter the second problem:

2. Mind manipulation. I can't find the codex entry now, but blood mages can manipulate the blood in someone's brain to control their thoughts. Comments by Cullen in Origins suggest that it's almost impossible to detect. Thus, by learning blood magic, a mage becomes able to deny another free will and is very hard to catch. Pragmatically, blood magic MUST be banned to prevent this crime that otherwise would be unstoppable.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Sepewrath wrote...

cocla wrote...
If there was a way for mages to learn blood magic without dealing with demons, then it would be fine, but until then it will always lead to evil through the demons influence.

You mean like those books that people learn them from lol. Jowan learned it from a book and if I remember correctly, Idunna said she and others learning from those books you destroy.

Funnily enough, when you do read Idunna's books, they summon demons. And you don't know what the books Jowan read actually taught him. If they taught him the basics of summoning a demon, and force it to teach him further... Well, you get the picture.

[DPSSOC]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

cocla wrote...
If there was a way for mages to learn blood magic without dealing with demons, then it would be fine, but until then it will always lead to evil through the demons influence.

You mean like those books that people learn them from lol. Jowan learned it from a book and if I remember correctly, Idunna said she and others learning from those books you destroy.

Funnily enough, when you do read Idunna's books, they summon demons. And you don't know what the books Jowan read actually taught him. If they taught him the basics of summoning a demon, and force it to teach him further... Well, you get the picture.

Come now, Jowan couldn't summon toast let alone a demon.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The book he left lying around, did allow Conner to contact a demon, so I'm not giving Jowan a free pass for being a complete and utter moron.

[dragonflight288]

Or, as Jowan speculated, Connor's desperation to help his father, along with Gaider saying a mage of any power (not necessarily magical but also political) attracts demons. Connor being the son of a powerful arl could have easily brought the demon to him in his dreams. The desire demon was not physically in Connor after all.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 09 août 2011 - 03:41 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Possibly.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

cocla wrote...
If there was a way for mages to learn blood magic without dealing with demons, then it would be fine, but until then it will always lead to evil through the demons influence.

You mean like those books that people learn them from lol. Jowan learned it from a book and if I remember correctly, Idunna said she and others learning from those books you destroy.

Funnily enough, when you do read Idunna's books, they summon demons. And you don't know what the books Jowan read actually taught him. If they taught him the basics of summoning a demon, and force it to teach him further... Well, you get the picture.

1) They're Tarohne's books
2) Those same books that you destroy were protected by demons because Tarohne did so to them:




Serah Hawke,

Years past, I fell into wickedness and was swept up in the mad ambitions of the blood mage Tarohne. You spared my life at the Blooming Rose, and for many months, I wished you had killed me. But I found the Maker's Light in my deepest despair, and I now seek absolution.

Tarohne wrote many tomes containing dark secrets she learned from the Fade. She protected them with demons forged into their very bindings. You must find and destroy these tomes, lest others follow her dark path. I wish I could help you, but the templars never let me leave my cell. I can only send my prayers.

—Idunna



And I'm willing to bet she did the same for the Fell Grimoire and struck a deal with Xebenkeck to do so.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 03:51 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Idunna, Tarohne, they are all the same to me... Dead.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Possibly.

I believe John Epler or Chris Priestly said that the demon was attracted to Connor because he allowed the demon access to political power, being an Arl's son and all.

Add into the equation that Connor is also a mage, and the demon must've said "Jackpot!"

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Idunna, Tarohne, they are all the same to me... Dead.

So you'd kill her even though she repents?

[dragonflight288]

How about Anders in Awakening, before he merges with Justice? We walk in and see him roasting a hurlock.

First words out of his mouth "I didn't do it."

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Idunna, Tarohne, they are all the same to me... Dead.

So you'd kill her even though she repents?

She had already caused the death of several Templar recruits. I'm not about to spare her jsut becsaue she goes all "ooh you've shown me the error of my ways! I will forever more live a life of righteouness and honour!..... Can we please forget about the people I've killed?" She is a blood mage and a menace... And she tried to kill me...

[dragonflight288]

I usually kill her because of those reasons.

But Etheral does prove that redemption is possible to blood mages.

[TEWR]

She had already caused the death of several Templar recruits. I'm not about to spare her jsut becsaue she goes all "ooh you've shown me the error of my ways! I will forever more live a life of righteouness and honour!..... Can we please forget about the people I've killed?" She is a blood mage and a menace... And she tried to kill me...

technically she didn't kill anyone. She just led them to Tarohne.

I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong here. But it's not like she won't repent since you hand her over to the Templars and they lock her up, most likely in the Aeonar.

I usually go 50-50 myself. kill her one playthrough, spare her the next.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I mostly spare her, but that is for metagaming reasons... I like to fight Xebenkeck..

[dragonflight288]

I fought Xebenkeck while killing her. The tomes are still there. Hawke just doesn't know they are bound to demons when picking up the first one.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Gah! And now I've let a blood mage live needlessly

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 09 août 2011 - 04:05 .