313 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...
A Soldier who activates ARush is exactly like an Adept who Pulls a target. Both powers will double (weapon) damage, make it easier to aim and reduce damage taken.

I didn't know soldier's rush do not do anything against protected enemy like pull...

Did you know you can use Pull four times before ARush becomes available again? Ever noticed that enemies are still shooting back in ARush? They don't when they're Pulled, and they remain incapable to fight back for a long time. ARush would be total crap without the added protection system (and is a lousy power compared to Pull when you're playing below HC difficulty).

i dont think youl find alot of people whod agree wit hthat. you can kill like 5 people with AR and the mattock, while pull might stagger an enemy for half a second. AR is as much a defensive ability as it is offensively, somewhat like cloak and the infiltrator.

Do you think your endless whinging and own inability to play the Adept made Bioware reconsider its position?

[The Spamming Troll]

Stardusk78 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...
A Soldier who activates ARush is exactly like an Adept who Pulls a target. Both powers will double (weapon) damage, make it easier to aim and reduce damage taken.

I didn't know soldier's rush do not do anything against protected enemy like pull...

Did you know you can use Pull four times before ARush becomes available again? Ever noticed that enemies are still shooting back in ARush? They don't when they're Pulled, and they remain incapable to fight back for a long time. ARush would be total crap without the added protection system (and is a lousy power compared to Pull when you're playing below HC difficulty).

i dont think youl find alot of people whod agree wit hthat. you can kill like 5 people with AR and the mattock, while pull might stagger an enemy for half a second. AR is as much a defensive ability as it is offensively, somewhat like cloak and the infiltrator.

Do you think your endless whinging and own inability to play the Adept made Bioware reconsider its position?

whining? that seems a little childish. id say i was pationately conserned about it.

have you seen me play an adept???? i can gauraantee you im no worse of an adept player then you are. i do the same things your doing when your playing an adept, i just dont accept that style of gameplay.

[Stardusk78]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...
A Soldier who activates ARush is exactly like an Adept who Pulls a target. Both powers will double (weapon) damage, make it easier to aim and reduce damage taken.

I didn't know soldier's rush do not do anything against protected enemy like pull...

Did you know you can use Pull four times before ARush becomes available again? Ever noticed that enemies are still shooting back in ARush? They don't when they're Pulled, and they remain incapable to fight back for a long time. ARush would be total crap without the added protection system (and is a lousy power compared to Pull when you're playing below HC difficulty).

i dont think youl find alot of people whod agree wit hthat. you can kill like 5 people with AR and the mattock, while pull might stagger an enemy for half a second. AR is as much a defensive ability as it is offensively, somewhat like cloak and the infiltrator.

Do you think your endless whinging and own inability to play the Adept made Bioware reconsider its position?

whining? that seems a little childish. id say i was pationately conserned about it.

have you seen me play an adept???? i can gauraantee you im no worse of an adept player then you are. i do the same things your doing when your playing an adept, i just dont accept that style of gameplay.

Right and at the end of the day, your argument boils down to making biotics affect anything at any time.

[The Spamming Troll]

no, it doesnt. if there ever was a game made that could still be challenging and fun, but allowed my to use biotics whenever i wanted, id be happy. but i get the feeling bioware cant do much more with offering a challenge other then rock, paper, scissors. which is why thats not the change im recomending.

so you think i suck at playing an adept, and that i want biotics to be like ME1 again? your wrong on both counts. bioware simply cant handle the implementation of biotics in its own game.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 01 octobre 2011 - 03:13 .

[Stardusk78]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

no, it doesnt. if there ever was a game made that could still be challenging and fun, but allowed my to use biotics whenever i wanted, id be happy. but i get the feeling bioware cant do much more with offering a challenge other then rock, paper, scissors. which is why thats not the change im recomending.

so you think i suck at playing an adept, and that i want biotics to be like ME1 again? your wrong on both counts. bioware simply cant handle the implementation of biotics in its own game.

And never once have you told BW exactly what to do, meaning you ain't got no plan...

[Gromnir]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Gromnir wrote...

Pull and AR can't be compared, they do completely different things.

I already compared them. All powers are there to give the player an edge in combat, so yes, they are all comparable though the player has to use powers in different ways to get the most out of em.

One can use a car, bike, plane, train or their feet to go to another location - they are all means of transportation thus comparable in that regard. One can use Cloak, cast a Combat Drone, or hit the Charge button to close in on the enemy without taking damage and to get into perfect shotgun position - Cloak, Drones and Charge are being used in a comparable way and can make Shepard a deadly combatant at close range. What is it you don't understand about this?

Your comparison is flawed...cars, bikes, planes, trains, and feet do share the common factor of being transportation.  However their application is COMPLETELY different.  They differ in terms of speed (obviously), cargo capacity, expense, flexibility, susceptibility to environmental factors, effort/concentration on part of the user, etc.

To your list of cloak, combat drone, and charge...AR can also be used to close in on an enemy.  And if you close in quickly enough to get a shot off, AR will give you a big damage boost.  Soldiers even start the game with a shotgun.

AR is a self-buff, whereas pull is a directly offensive power.  As such, pull can be resisted (in other games: saves, "magic" resistance, etc...in ME2: shield, barrier, armor) but makes the target susceptible to Shepard AND his allies.  AR cannot be resisted, and all enemies suffer extra damage from AR-affected Shepard.

Modifié par Gromnir, 02 octobre 2011 - 01:03 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

And how many killed (not just controlled) enemies (which could have been pull, so no armor or the likes) during one AR?

Wut?

Clever!
Brilliant!
What an amazing answer, I can't compete with that!

Ennemis which could have been pulled actually doesn't have the time to shoot back during AR, cause they are dead before that. Besides, Cryo ammo can also stop them during AR, even if it's not even worth it as they'll be dead before that. 

Activating ARush does nothing to enemies - it affects Shepard only. Enemies are not going to be death when you press the button. ARush only makes it easier to kill enemies - like Pull or any power.

Oh, and you're able to kill enemies a lot faster by spamming Pull than ARush when you're playing below HC difficulty level.

First, gameplay wise, AR slows down all enemies which is both an offensive and defensive edge.
Next, contrary to pull, AR affect any ennemy in the game, even the protected ones, and actually even the human reaper.
To finish, you won't be killing enemies faster with Pull than AR unless they're husk which dies as soon as they're not on their feet anyore.

Didn't know you can use pull on everything like AR, boosted damage in the same way (AR is the only power in the game which even boost other damage boost for the calculation) as AR, and being as polyvalent as AR with pull.

Then you've learned something today because you can use Pull on everything and you cannot use ARush on everything, only on Shepard.

Okay, so now pull works against protected enemies and the humanoid reaper...So why was that topic created? ^^
Besides you know, after (a successful) Pull you still have to aim your ennemies, just like AR...

ARush only boosts Shepard's damage whereas the effects of Pull are benefitial to the entire squad whom's weapon and power damage is also doubled for Pull's duration.

The squad? Are you really speaking of those two nerfed guys which does nothing besides getting killed?
Even my freaking adept have a better weapon DPS than the entire squad!

And to get back on topic, removing the protection system would render a power such as ARush obselete - the option to take out all enemies indefinitely is way more powerful and effective than the occasional bullet-time.

You know, there's a lot more stat in the game which can be used for balance than just plain immunity, such as skill cooldown, general cooldown and weight.

[Shepard the Leper]

Gromnir wrote...

Your comparison is flawed...cars, bikes, planes, trains, and feet do share the common factor of being transportation.  However their application is COMPLETELY different.  They differ in terms of speed (obviously), cargo capacity, expense, flexibility, susceptibility to environmental factors, effort/concentration on part of the user, etc.

You've just proven my point.

To your list of cloak, combat drone, and charge...AR can also be used to close in on an enemy.  And if you close in quickly enough to get a shot off, AR will give you a big damage boost. Soldiers even start the game with a shotgun.

That's the point. Soldiers do start with a shotgun. Infiltrators, Adepts, Engineers and Sentinels do not. They don't have that option which is what's wrong with ME2's class interpretation. Gameplay is about using powers and weapons in tandem, reducing the selection of available weapons based on class reduces gameplay options. There is no point to cast a Singularity on an enemy to get close if your Adept doesn't have a gun to exploit the situation. I don't like that. 

AR is a self-buff, whereas pull is a directly offensive power.  As such, pull can be resisted (in other games: saves, "magic" resistance, etc...in ME2: shield, barrier, armor) but makes the target susceptible to Shepard AND his allies.  AR cannot be resisted, and all enemies suffer extra damage from AR-affected Shepard.

And both can be used to give you an advantage in battle.

I don't understand what you're trying to do here. You understand the point with the ARush-shotgun example. All I'm saying is that Red and Blue are both colors, and you say "no, they are different (colors)". The last part of that sentence is correct, the "no" part isn't.

[Someone With Mass]

Throw is supposed to have an armor-piercing option in ME3.

As for defenses you don't have powers against...just use your guns.

It's why classes like Infiltrator aren't just a souped-up Engineer or other casters that have a solution to most defenses.

[Shepard the Leper]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

And how many killed (not just controlled) enemies (which could have been pull, so no armor or the likes) during one AR?

I have no clue what you're trying to say here. That makes it kinda difficulty to respond.

First, gameplay wise, AR slows down all enemies which is both an offensive and defensive edge.
Next, contrary to pull, AR affect any ennemy in the game, even the protected ones, and actually even the human reaper.
To finish, you won't be killing enemies faster with Pull than AR unless they're husk which dies as soon as they're not on their feet anyore.

Wrong. AR slows everything down except Shep's movements.
Wrong. AR has no effect on enemies at all.
Wrong. You can't kill a thing with AR (you can with Pull, that's true)

Didn't know you can use pull on everything like AR, boosted damage in the same way (AR is the only power in the game which even boost other damage boost for the calculation) as AR, and being as polyvalent as AR with pull.

Wrong again. You're using AR on yourself. Cloak and Geth Shield Boost also boost damage like AR does (it isn't the only power in the game like you say); ragdolled and frozen enemies also take double damage.

The answer to the question Which abilities can one use to boost weapon damage can be answered in many ways. Pull and AR are among the answers. The answer to the question How one has to use those abilities in order to achieve an increase in weapon damage is an entirely different one. And that's the one you keep going on about. It's completely beside the point.

Okay, so now pull works against protected enemies and the humanoid reaper...So why was that topic created? ^^
Besides you know, after (a successful) Pull you still have to aim your ennemies, just like AR...

All powers that are used on enemies inflict damage (do you read the loading screens?) and might cause the enemy to stagger briefly. You can kill every enemy in the game using Pull (AI Hacking, Slam, Neural Shock, Cryo Blast etc) only. You cannot kill a single enemy when you're using AR only.

The squad? Are you really speaking of those two nerfed guys which does nothing besides getting killed?
Even my freaking adept have a better weapon DPS than the entire squad!

Pulled enemies are your squadies' favorite targets and brings their weapon damage on par with Shep's against non-ragdolled targets. Using Pull on enemies is usually enough to (have your squadies) kill them for you (even on Insanity).

Your squadmates can make a lot of difference when you use them well. It's your responsibility when they keep dying, if you keep them behind you they won't. ME is Shepard's show. The squad is there to help, not to win battles for you. It would be pretty bad when you can park Shep somewhere safe, go get a cup of coffee and when you get back your squad has cleared the level for you.

You know, there's a lot more stat in the game which can be used for balance than just plain immunity, such as skill cooldown, general cooldown and weight.

Really? Want to share some of those ideas of yours? I seriously doubt they will help coz so far nobody has come up with a reasonable alternative to replace the protection system. It's easy to say that it sucks you cannot Pull a YMIR (which has its shields/armor up) into the air; but it's equally easy to understand that if you could a YMIR technically becomes a grunt with a lot more HP. That ruins gameplay thus isn't an option.

[lazuli]

This Pull/Adrenaline Rush debate is pointless.  They are different powers that do different things.  Although both can feasibly bring about a damage boost, I would argue that said damage boost is at least not the focus of Pull.  And they apply this damage boost in different enough ways to make comparing them absurd.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

[quote]Shepard the Leper wrote...
[quote]Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...
And how many killed (not just controlled) enemies (which could have been pull, so no armor or the likes) during one AR?[/quote]
I have no clue what you're trying to say here. That makes it kinda difficulty to respond.[/quote]
That's because you assume that during AR Shepard just stop to act.
Yep, that way effectively even if AR would give 6746959874546634% boost to damage it would be a useless power which does nothing at all.
[quote][quote]
First, gameplay wise, AR slows down all enemies which is both an offensive and defensive edge.
Next, contrary to pull, AR affect any ennemy in the game, even the protected ones, and actually even the human reaper.
To finish, you won't be killing enemies faster with Pull than AR unless they're husk which dies as soon as they're not on their feet anyore.
[/quote]
Wrong. AR slows everything down except Shep's movements.
Wrong. AR has no effect on enemies at all.
Wrong. You can't kill a thing with AR (you can with Pull, that's true)[/quote]
You're right, game speed doesn't affect anything at all, and your reflex and accuracy would have similar results even if the game was 10 times faster or 10 times slower.
You're right, damage boost does nothing at all, they were just implemented so people programming the game would have some more days of work.
You're right, when AR is activated Shepard suddently can't act anymore.
[quote][quote]
Didn't know you can use pull on everything like AR, boosted damage in the same way (AR is the only power in the game which even boost other damage boost for the calculation) as AR, and being as polyvalent as AR with pull.
[/quote]
Wrong again. You're using AR on yourself. Cloak and Geth Shield Boost also boost damage like AR does (it isn't the only power in the game like you say); ragdolled and frozen enemies also take double damage.[/quote]
You're wrong on this. AR boost total damages inflicted, while other boost only increase base damage.
For example Cloak would work like: base damage*(weapon upgrade boost+weapon ammo boost+other boost+Cloak boost) while AR works like base damage*(weapon upgrade boost+weapon ammo boost+other boost)*AR boost which doesn't give quite the same result, as AR also boost other boosts.
Be it an error of implementation or something else, that's how it currently work.


[quote]The answer to the question Which abilities can one use to boost weapon damage can be answered in many ways. Pull and AR are among the answers. The answer to the question How one has to use those abilities in order to achieve an increase in weapon damage is an entirely different one. And that's the one you keep going on about. It's completely beside the point.[/quote]
Actually, the topic is more like: having my powers having no effects on protected ennemies is kinda boring, but if you say so...
[quote][quote]
Okay, so now pull works against protected enemies and the humanoid reaper...So why was that topic created? ^^
Besides you know, after (a successful) Pull you still have to aim your ennemies, just like AR...[/quote]
All powers that are used on enemies inflict damage (do you read the loading screens?) and might cause the enemy to stagger briefly. You can kill every enemy in the game using Pull (AI Hacking, Slam, Neural Shock, Cryo Blast etc) only. You cannot kill a single enemy when you're using AR only.[/quote]
Actually, powers following the games description even when opponents have anti-weapons protection would be quite cool.
And yes, as I said like twice already, I know that for you damage bonus doesn't affect ennemy killing (never heard something like: "Weapons doesn't kill people, poeple does." Don't you?).

[quote][quote]The squad? Are you really speaking of those two nerfed guys which does nothing besides getting killed?
Even my freaking adept have a better weapon DPS than the entire squad![/quote]
Pulled enemies are your squadies' favorite targets and brings their weapon damage on par with Shep's against non-ragdolled targets. Using Pull on enemies is usually enough to (have your squadies) kill them for you (even on Insanity).

Your squadmates can make a lot of difference when you use them well. It's your responsibility when they keep dying, if you keep them behind you they won't. ME is Shepard's show. The squad is there to help, not to win battles for you. It would be pretty bad when you can park Shep somewhere safe, go get a cup of coffee and when you get back your squad has cleared the level for you.[/quote]
Yes, ME2 AI is brilliant and always follow your orders.

[quote][quote]
You know, there's a lot more stat in the game which can be used for balance than just plain immunity, such as skill cooldown, general cooldown and weight.[/quote]

Really? Want to share some of those ideas of yours? I seriously doubt they will help coz so far nobody has come up with a reasonable alternative to replace the protection system. It's easy to say that it sucks you cannot Pull a YMIR (which has its shields/armor up) into the air; but it's equally easy to understand that if you could a YMIR technically becomes a grunt with a lot more HP. That ruins gameplay thus isn't an option.
[/quote]
Well, as already said, such control powers would not be a problem if not spammable (longer cooldown), if their duration was affected by their weight (heavier ennemy controlledd less longer), etcs... and there would not be that boring plain immunity, and gameplay would not be ruined.

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 02 octobre 2011 - 07:25 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Stardusk78 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

no, it doesnt. if there ever was a game made that could still be challenging and fun, but allowed my to use biotics whenever i wanted, id be happy. but i get the feeling bioware cant do much more with offering a challenge other then rock, paper, scissors. which is why thats not the change im recomending.

so you think i suck at playing an adept, and that i want biotics to be like ME1 again? your wrong on both counts. bioware simply cant handle the implementation of biotics in its own game.

And never once have you told BW exactly what to do, meaning you ain't got no plan...

do you actually think theres no way to make a game better without enemy protections?

i feel like theres been alot of great ideas in this forum to improve gameplay in ME3 that dont singularily rely on stripping away your characters heart and soul. maybe you missed them.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:57 .

[ryoldschool]

@spamming troll I actually would be interested in your suggestion on how to implement biotics in ME3. I'm ok with ME2's system, but would like to see your proposal. ** serious/no sarcasm **