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Will many powers still be (mostly) useless vs. protected targets?


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#51
Yeti1069

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Fathom72 wrote...

I'd argue that any squaddie can work for any mission, so long as you can support them properly.

Jacob: Pull cc's, and his squad incendiary ammo boosts everyone's damage + CC's.

Miranda: The quintessential can-opener. Can detonate warp bombs, and set them up if you're willing to sacrifice armor stripping power. Also latently boosts the squad's health + damage.

Mordrin: Cryo blast is, hands down, the best crowd control ability (imo). 4.5 second cool-down on a squaddie? That's material for excellence right there. He's also the best armor stripper in the game, and can wreck organic health with incinerate (this is mainly due to the research update which improves his tech damage). He's also hardier than other characters, thanks to his shield boosting passive ability.

Garrus: The strongest overload in the game, thanks to his passive ability. Can also CC with Concussive shot. I've also found the shot decent at stripping thanks to his passive ability, but it still isn't enough to completely deplete barriers (nearly gets them, tho. A single shot will do it in.).

Jack: With her passive, pull is on a 4.5 second cooldown, just like Mordrin. Super quick crowd control, and sets up for warp bombs. If pulled over a ledge, instant kill. Shockwave is definitely viable, due to its large area of effect and strong base force. Also can give the squad warp ammo, one of the most versatile ammo types in the game.

Grunt: Regeneration. Seriously, you just can't kill him if you evolve his passive all the way up. Throw him right in the enemies' face with a claymore equipped for beautiful results. Also can give incendiary ammo and crowd control with concussive shot, as a bonus. Not to mention, he can get additional boosts to his health through research.

Thane: Can CC with throw. Also can strip armor and barriers with warp, + set up warp bombs. Great base damage via passive ability.

Samara: Like Jack, has access to the 4.5 pull. I personally feel that throw is redundant on her, since pull does everything it does and more. Can also strip armor and barries with reave, which also adds to her survivability.

Tali: The drone distracts enemies, and has a very powerful explosion attack. Ai hacking can cc, but the option is pretty rare. Can also strip shields with Energy drain, which also adds to her survivability.

Legion: See Tali. Other unique things include access to the widow, which can be further boosted thanks to ammo powers and his geth shield. He also can have his shields boosted through research, making him very hardy.

Zaeed: Has the only useless power in the game (lol incendiary grenade). Still important, mainly due to being the only squaddie capable of providing disruptor ammo. Also CC's with concussive shot.

Kasumi: Strips shields with overload (also has the fastest version of this). Her other two abilites are well renowned for their OP'ness; shadow strike wrecks all sorts of protections+health, and flashbang bypasses protections (+ has the largest radius of any power, outside tech armor's explosion).

Also, I would like to note that access to snipers and shotguns are very big plusses for characters, since it means access to the geth shotgun and incisor sniper rifle. With ammo, I've seen the geth shotgun completely strip enemy defenses (main reason I prefer Jack to Samara), adn the incisor ignores the damage reduction squad weapons suffer, giving snipers the same damage output as Shepard.

One flaw in your approach, here, at least from my perspective, is that you're including the loyalty powers when discussing the utility of the characters. Well, for most of them, you're (I'm) only playing a fairly small portion of the game with them loyal due to the development of the plot. Sure, I could save all the DLC for after everyone's loyalty/just prior to the IFF, but then I'd be missing out on other stuff (having some of the DLC weapons, characters, XP, upgrades, etc... for most of the game).

As such, for most of the game, Jack and Samara have no way to deal with defenses at all. Most of the other characters don't function like a switch going from not loyal to loyal. Plus, ammo powers simply aren't as valuable (in my opinion) as the direct-effect abilities like Warp, Incinerate and Overload, since squad mates just don't lay down as much fire as they could be, even if they aren't behind cover, and the ammo powers aren't stripping defenses in a second or two.

Now, maybe I'll gain more appreciation for CC abilities as I continue to play Insanity and have to deal with health more and more, but so far it feels like defenses are erally the issue: they take longer to drop and prevent the (effective) use of a lot of powers. Even on Hardcore, though, I was having these issues with Jack, Samara and Mordin.

I guess part of the motivation behind my complaint was a desire to be able to use the characters I like more often than they are necessarily the ideal choice for a particular mission: listening to Mordin ramble on about something is more fun for me than almost anything else in the game...but in a lot of combats he just feels like dead weight for too much of the fight. The same goes for Jack, except she has it even worse (both less interesting to listen to, if still fun, and even less useful in most situations).

I'm not looking to get defenses stripped, or to make the game a lot easier, but I would like each character to be a bit better at stripping defenses or to have [some] powers be more effective than they currently are against defended targets. There's quite a lot of middle ground between ME1 where defenses were essentially meaningless if you had a biotic along and ME2 where biotics are essentially meaningless if (because) everyone has defenses.

Modifié par Yeti1069, 06 août 2011 - 07:46 .


#52
dreman9999

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Yeti1069 wrote...

Fathom72 wrote...

I'd argue that any squaddie can work for any mission, so long as you can support them properly.

Jacob: Pull cc's, and his squad incendiary ammo boosts everyone's damage + CC's.

Miranda: The quintessential can-opener. Can detonate warp bombs, and set them up if you're willing to sacrifice armor stripping power. Also latently boosts the squad's health + damage.

Mordrin: Cryo blast is, hands down, the best crowd control ability (imo). 4.5 second cool-down on a squaddie? That's material for excellence right there. He's also the best armor stripper in the game, and can wreck organic health with incinerate (this is mainly due to the research update which improves his tech damage). He's also hardier than other characters, thanks to his shield boosting passive ability.

Garrus: The strongest overload in the game, thanks to his passive ability. Can also CC with Concussive shot. I've also found the shot decent at stripping thanks to his passive ability, but it still isn't enough to completely deplete barriers (nearly gets them, tho. A single shot will do it in.).

Jack: With her passive, pull is on a 4.5 second cooldown, just like Mordrin. Super quick crowd control, and sets up for warp bombs. If pulled over a ledge, instant kill. Shockwave is definitely viable, due to its large area of effect and strong base force. Also can give the squad warp ammo, one of the most versatile ammo types in the game.

Grunt: Regeneration. Seriously, you just can't kill him if you evolve his passive all the way up. Throw him right in the enemies' face with a claymore equipped for beautiful results. Also can give incendiary ammo and crowd control with concussive shot, as a bonus. Not to mention, he can get additional boosts to his health through research.

Thane: Can CC with throw. Also can strip armor and barriers with warp, + set up warp bombs. Great base damage via passive ability.

Samara: Like Jack, has access to the 4.5 pull. I personally feel that throw is redundant on her, since pull does everything it does and more. Can also strip armor and barries with reave, which also adds to her survivability.

Tali: The drone distracts enemies, and has a very powerful explosion attack. Ai hacking can cc, but the option is pretty rare. Can also strip shields with Energy drain, which also adds to her survivability.

Legion: See Tali. Other unique things include access to the widow, which can be further boosted thanks to ammo powers and his geth shield. He also can have his shields boosted through research, making him very hardy.

Zaeed: Has the only useless power in the game (lol incendiary grenade). Still important, mainly due to being the only squaddie capable of providing disruptor ammo. Also CC's with concussive shot.

Kasumi: Strips shields with overload (also has the fastest version of this). Her other two abilites are well renowned for their OP'ness; shadow strike wrecks all sorts of protections+health, and flashbang bypasses protections (+ has the largest radius of any power, outside tech armor's explosion).

Also, I would like to note that access to snipers and shotguns are very big plusses for characters, since it means access to the geth shotgun and incisor sniper rifle. With ammo, I've seen the geth shotgun completely strip enemy defenses (main reason I prefer Jack to Samara), adn the incisor ignores the damage reduction squad weapons suffer, giving snipers the same damage output as Shepard.

One flaw in your approach, here, at least from my perspective, is that you're including the loyalty powers when discussing the utility of the characters. Well, for most of them, you're (I'm) only playing a fairly small portion of the game with them loyal due to the development of the plot. Sure, I could save all the DLC for after everyone's loyalty/just prior to the IFF, but then I'd be missing out on other stuff (having some of the DLC weapons, characters, XP, upgrades, etc... for most of the game).

As such, for most of the game, Jack and Samara have no way to deal with defenses at all. Most of the other characters don't function like a switch going from not loyal to loyal. Plus, ammo powers simply aren't as valuable (in my opinion) as the direct-effect abilities like Warp, Incinerate and Overload, since squad mates just don't lay down as much fire as they could be, even if they aren't behind cover, and the ammo powers aren't stripping defenses in a second or two.

Now, maybe I'll gain more appreciation for CC abilities as I continue to play Insanity and have to deal with health more and more, but so far it feels like defenses are erally the issue: they take longer to drop and prevent the (effective) use of a lot of powers. Even on Hardcore, though, I was having these issues with Jack, Samara and Mordin.

I guess part of the motivation behind my complaint was a desire to be able to use the characters I like more often than they are necessarily the ideal choice for a particular mission: listening to Mordin ramble on about something is more fun for me than almost anything else in the game...but in a lot of combats he just feels like dead weight for too much of the fight. The same goes for Jack, except she has it even worse (both less interesting to listen to, if still fun, and even less useful in most situations).

I'm not looking to get defenses stripped, or to make the game a lot easier, but I would like each character to be a bit better at stripping defenses or to have [some] powers be more effective than they currently are against defended targets. There's quite a lot of middle ground between ME1 where defenses were essentially meaningless if you had a biotic along and ME2 where biotics are essentially meaningless if (because) everyone has defenses.

So what, just fill the roles that the character lacks before loyalty powers. Jack takes long to take down defences, bring a tech expert to take down defence. The fight classes don't shot as much as you want them to...give them  better weapons and have biotic users use biotics to stun enemies out of cover. Tech experse not doing eough damage... bring a biotic or a attack character.  It's about balancing, even with out the loyalty power everyone can be balanced, the loyaly powers just make it easier to balance them.

#53
Fathom72

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Most of the loyalty powers are not necessary for a squad-mate to function. Tali and Samara are the only ones I feel that aren't optimal without their loyalty power. At any rate, all the squadmates that you get before Horizon work just fine.

I also agree with you about the ammo stuff. Its just a bonus on top of already fine characters.

Btw, if you wish to use Jack/Samara/Mordrin more efficiently, pair them with someone who can strip defenses (i.e., Miranda, Garrus, etc). These folks can strip enemies down to the red quickly (esp. with eh area evolutions for warp, overload, etc), allowing you to use your CC abilities. Since the CC abilities for these characters have such low cooldown, you can throw out a second power very, very quickly after using the original one.

Lets say that we're playing a blue suns mission. You see a bunch of enemies clustered together (btw, this almost always happens when they enter the battlefield). You throw out an overload with Miri, then freeze them with Mordrin. While these folks are frozen, you start working on the rest of the enemies on the field. By the time you've brought a few of their defenses down, Mordrin should be ready to lob another power. After this, redirect yoiur attention to the frozen enemies.

Also, if you have a class which is good at stripping (i.e. Sentinel), you can pretty much use these characters with any squad.

#54
The Spamming Troll

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Shepard the Leper wrote...

Because the option to do whatever you want whenever you want against whomever you want would be far worse.



im not asking for the removal of one extreme with the addition of another. neither direction is good for ME.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 août 2011 - 08:53 .


#55
No Snakes Alive

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I can't believe people are still taking The Spamming Troll's troll-ish spamming seriously.

Some people see classes like Vanguard and Infiltrator OSK'ing enemies one at a time and wonder why their precious Adept can't do that, but I've yet to see Infiltrator/Vanguard players whine about how their class can't instantly strip a whole group's defenses like Adepts can with Warp bombs.

The DIFFERENT classes shine in DIFFERENT areas - imagine that. Some people think the Soldier is OP with Adrenaline Rush - I found trying to stay awake while playing the Soldier to be the most difficult challenge ME2 ever threw my way. Adepts excel at Insanity by removing one enemy's protections and then Warp-bombing them to obliterate surrounding enemies' protections. From there it's all CC/clean-up. If you don't like that playstyle it doesn't make the class inferior in any way, it just means you'd probably be better-suited to play a different class or difficulty.

#56
dreman9999

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

I can't believe people are still taking The Spamming Troll's troll-ish spamming seriously.

Some people see classes like Vanguard and Infiltrator OSK'ing enemies one at a time and wonder why their precious Adept can't do that, but I've yet to see Infiltrator/Vanguard players whine about how their class can't instantly strip a whole group's defenses like Adepts can with Warp bombs.

The DIFFERENT classes shine in DIFFERENT areas - imagine that. Some people think the Soldier is OP with Adrenaline Rush - I found trying to stay awake while playing the Soldier to be the most difficult challenge ME2 ever threw my way. Adepts excel at Insanity by removing one enemy's protections and then Warp-bombing them to obliterate surrounding enemies' protections. From there it's all CC/clean-up. If you don't like that playstyle it doesn't make the class inferior in any way, it just means you'd probably be better-suited to play a different class or difficulty.

*Claps slowly....with tears in eyes.*

#57
Fathom72

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^ Ditto ^

#58
CuseGirl

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http://social.biowar...3/index/7936187

i think this is the thread the OP was talking about

#59
The Spamming Troll

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

I can't believe people are still taking The Spamming Troll's troll-ish spamming seriously.

Some people see classes like Vanguard and Infiltrator OSK'ing enemies one at a time and wonder why their precious Adept can't do that, but I've yet to see Infiltrator/Vanguard players whine about how their class can't instantly strip a whole group's defenses like Adepts can with Warp bombs.

The DIFFERENT classes shine in DIFFERENT areas - imagine that. Some people think the Soldier is OP with Adrenaline Rush - I found trying to stay awake while playing the Soldier to be the most difficult challenge ME2 ever threw my way. Adepts excel at Insanity by removing one enemy's protections and then Warp-bombing them to obliterate surrounding enemies' protections. From there it's all CC/clean-up. If you don't like that playstyle it doesn't make the class inferior in any way, it just means you'd probably be better-suited to play a different class or difficulty.


i dont think you understand the argument. i think the majority of people on your side have no clue what the arguemt is. this proves it, again.

i didnt start this topic, or the numerous ones that will continue to show up every other week. just becasue other people form different opinions, and i agree with them, doesnt give you the right to belittle me like this. i call enemy protections dumb, but id never call someone else that just because i think i live in an ivory tower.

sorry my dissapointment in one specific aspect of ME2 gives you all soo much trouble.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 août 2011 - 06:00 .


#60
Ahglock

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No Snakes Alive wrote...

I can't believe people are still taking The Spamming Troll's troll-ish spamming seriously.

Some people see classes like Vanguard and Infiltrator OSK'ing enemies one at a time and wonder why their precious Adept can't do that, but I've yet to see Infiltrator/Vanguard players whine about how their class can't instantly strip a whole group's defenses like Adepts can with Warp bombs.

The DIFFERENT classes shine in DIFFERENT areas - imagine that. Some people think the Soldier is OP with Adrenaline Rush - I found trying to stay awake while playing the Soldier to be the most difficult challenge ME2 ever threw my way. Adepts excel at Insanity by removing one enemy's protections and then Warp-bombing them to obliterate surrounding enemies' protections. From there it's all CC/clean-up. If you don't like that playstyle it doesn't make the class inferior in any way, it just means you'd probably be better-suited to play a different class or difficulty.


I take his opinions more seriously than I take a troll like you.  He didn't resort to personal attacks ot prove his point.  And besides just because different classes shine in different areas doesn't mean some classes don't shine brighter or less brightly.  

#61
Fathom72

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No, I think I understand the argument pretty well. You folks feel that powers that are restricted by protections can't be used as easily as powers that bypass/affect them. As such, classes/squaddies that rely heavily on these powers (Adept/Van/Jack etc) are perceived as difficult to use. Going by that argument, more problems arise, such as people being denied access to characters that they like (such as Jack). You wish for a middle ground to be obtained; for powers to still have an effect (beyond stumble) on protected enemies, but not to full effect (ala ME1's brokenness).

Did I get it right? If so, please correct me, because I'd love to make a rebuttal post.

Also, just want to mention that I share no animosity towards you, TSP (as my ditto post might suggest.). I was merely agreeing with Snake's points.

#62
Fathom72

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Also, could folks please try not to be confrontational? This is an interesting topic, and most of the people here are making good points. Lets not ruin this by mixing personal attacks in.

Can't we just get along, and have a mature conversation? ^_^

#63
Shepard the Leper

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The protection system cannot be removed without completely ruining the combat system. It's simply not an option. Anyone who, at this point, still complains about it should put forth ideas to change and improve the system. Thus far I have not heard anything that has potential.

#64
The Spamming Troll

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Shepard the Leper wrote...

The protection system cannot be removed without completely ruining the combat system. It's simply not an option. Anyone who, at this point, still complains about it should put forth ideas to change and improve the system. Thus far I have not heard anything that has potential.


so what your saying is ME2 is already perfect?

#65
Fathom72

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^ I can't speak for him, but I'll say that I think the ME2 system is NEAR perfect. Out of everything, I'd only change shockwave (reduce the cooldown/speed up the animation) and fortification (give it better defense to distinguish it from GSB and Barrier).

I also had qualms with the movement options/Shep's fluidity, but that's already been addressed in ME3.

#66
Shepard the Leper

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

so what your saying is ME2 is already perfect?


No. I'm saying that removing the protection system or to make (almost) all powers work through defenses would make the game(play) a lot worse. So that's not really an option imo.

#67
The Spamming Troll

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if bioware removed the protection system itd be like playing rock-paper-scissors without the rock, paper, and scissors. i dont think the health bars are going anywhere. but i do think they can be improved upon, in even minor ways. take evolving abilties in ME3 for example. can i spend X amount of points and have an ability like heavy throw put an enemy on its butt, not nessesarily ragdoll, but accomplish more then the stagger ME2 offers. even evolving overload for the adept or amplification for the sentinel, are my option to evolve those abilities gonig to greatly change my characters gameplay.

with ME3 supposedly being bigger and better, im hoping ME2s abilities pale greatly in comparison to its ME3 counterparts. id hope youd feel the same.

fathom, id also make singularity instacast too. (id also remove the predefined abilities assigned to classes. id be great "making" our character, wouldnt it?)

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 août 2011 - 11:16 .


#68
lazuli

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The Spamming Troll wrote...
take evolving abilties in ME3 for example. can i spend X amount of points and have an ability like heavy throw put an enemy on its butt, not nessesarily ragdoll, but accomplish more then the stagger ME2 offers.


This seems like a solid solution.  It would require some more animation work, but I think it could diversify combat and make it more engaging.  It could be abused, though, to a similar degree as Stasis.  It will be interesting to see how these abilities are handled in ME3, especially with Stasis' famous glitches.

#69
Fathom72

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I think most people object to the idea of powers being able to ragdoll through protection. I once made a thread which presented ideas for more interesting staggers (singularity pulling folks in, pull dragging enemies a step or two in the direction it hit from, etc.). That got near unanimous approval, iirc.

I also agree about singularity being an instant cast, since I don't feel that the projectile adds much to the game. Pull, throw, and warp are worth it, since the direction the projectile hits from alter the enemies trajectory, but singularity always has the same effect upon detonation. Also, since Liara is going to be a perma squaddie, we're probably going to get insta-singularity through her. That probably doesn't mean anything, but it would be nice if Shep got it.

#70
Shepard the Leper

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lazuli wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
take evolving abilties in ME3 for example. can i spend X amount of points and have an ability like heavy throw put an enemy on its butt, not nessesarily ragdoll, but accomplish more then the stagger ME2 offers.


This seems like a solid solution.  It would require some more animation work, but I think it could diversify combat and make it more engaging.  It could be abused, though, to a similar degree as Stasis.  It will be interesting to see how these abilities are handled in ME3, especially with Stasis' famous glitches.


If turning the Adept into a Throw-spammer only is the goal, then yes. This 'solution' would effectively make all other biotic powers redundant. If you think Stasis can be abusive, then I don't know why you consider this an option. Stasis would be total crap compared to Throw knocking down anyone.

It's easy to take one power, such as Throw, out of the complete power system and tweak it the way you see fit. Putting that new (tweaked) power back into the complete power-puzzle is a lot harder. The above 'solution' is a perfect example how one can totally ruin the system with only one adjustment.

#71
The Spamming Troll

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Shepard the Leper wrote...

lazuli wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
take evolving abilties in ME3 for example. can i spend X amount of points and have an ability like heavy throw put an enemy on its butt, not nessesarily ragdoll, but accomplish more then the stagger ME2 offers.


This seems like a solid solution.  It would require some more animation work, but I think it could diversify combat and make it more engaging.  It could be abused, though, to a similar degree as Stasis.  It will be interesting to see how these abilities are handled in ME3, especially with Stasis' famous glitches.


If turning the Adept into a Throw-spammer only is the goal, then yes. This 'solution' would effectively make all other biotic powers redundant. If you think Stasis can be abusive, then I don't know why you consider this an option. Stasis would be total crap compared to Throw knocking down anyone.

It's easy to take one power, such as Throw, out of the complete power system and tweak it the way you see fit. Putting that new (tweaked) power back into the complete power-puzzle is a lot harder. The above 'solution' is a perfect example how one can totally ruin the system with only one adjustment.


if you choose not to level up another ability to what you invested in throw, then that other ability should suck. i dont get your complaint. i think biotic abilities are already redundant. the fact that all abilities arent on the same playing field,like stasis, becomes even more apparent when you add in global cooldowns. im not using basic pull, or taking slam as a bonus power when i have pull field.

why am i going to care to evolve an ability, if theyll all cause the same stagger?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 08 août 2011 - 01:37 .


#72
dreman9999

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

lazuli wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
take evolving abilties in ME3 for example. can i spend X amount of points and have an ability like heavy throw put an enemy on its butt, not nessesarily ragdoll, but accomplish more then the stagger ME2 offers.


This seems like a solid solution.  It would require some more animation work, but I think it could diversify combat and make it more engaging.  It could be abused, though, to a similar degree as Stasis.  It will be interesting to see how these abilities are handled in ME3, especially with Stasis' famous glitches.


If turning the Adept into a Throw-spammer only is the goal, then yes. This 'solution' would effectively make all other biotic powers redundant. If you think Stasis can be abusive, then I don't know why you consider this an option. Stasis would be total crap compared to Throw knocking down anyone.

It's easy to take one power, such as Throw, out of the complete power system and tweak it the way you see fit. Putting that new (tweaked) power back into the complete power-puzzle is a lot harder. The above 'solution' is a perfect example how one can totally ruin the system with only one adjustment.


if you choose not to level up another ability to what you invested in throw, then that other ability should suck. i dont get your complaint. i think biotic abilities are already redundant. the fact that all abilities arent on the same playing field,like stasis, becomes even more apparent when you add in global cooldowns. im not using basic pull, or taking slam as a bonus power when i have pull field.

why am i going to care to evolve an ability, if theyll all cause the same stagger?

Your not understanding his point. If you max both Throw and Stasis, and throw could bypass shields, If you had an enemy come up to you, which would you use? A throw that bypass protection would knock the guy down and you would shot him to death, Stasis would just hold the guy till the power wears of taking longer to kill him. It would be like ME1 if you did not build your biotic as a baston.

Modifié par dreman9999, 08 août 2011 - 01:47 .


#73
Shepard the Leper

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

if you choose not to level up another ability to what you invested in throw, then that other ability should suck. i dont get your complaint. i think biotic abilities are already redundant. the fact that all abilities arent on the same playing field,like stasis, becomes even more apparent when you add in global cooldowns. im not using basic pull, or taking slam as a bonus power when i have pull field.

why am i going to care to evolve an ability, if theyll all cause the same stagger?


You're proposing to have the option to use one power only in whatever circumstance which completely trivializes the concept of having multiple powers, powers with different strengths and weaknesses. I don't want ME1's crap back, where most powers (once evolved) completely broke the combat system.

Throw is one of the best powers in ME2, it's absolutely devastating most of the time. If your attempts only cause staggers, you're using Throw in a similar fashion as Overloading armor, barrier or health bars - which is not very effective btw.

#74
RPGamer13

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Throw, Pull, Shockwave had ZERO effect on enemies with any of the three kinds of defenses and only affected "naked" enemies. I say naked as in all yoh see when targetting them is a red health bar.

That's what pissed me off.

#75
dreman9999

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RPGamer13 wrote...

Throw, Pull, Shockwave had ZERO effect on enemies with any of the three kinds of defenses and only affected "naked" enemies. I say naked as in all yoh see when targetting them is a red health bar.

That's what pissed me off.

That's the problem...Your using them to do a drect attack. Your no sappost to. They are Crowd control powers. Throw and pull are the fastest cooling down powers, meaning they are spamable. Just use 3 max out heavy throws and the enemies shield will be out in 3 throws. Shockwave is just a cover reset. Use it to knock targets out of cover so they can be attacked. When a target gets hit by any attack power they get stunned, they get out of cover when stunned and not fire back. Use some planning to get the most out of the powers.