313 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i can assume those enemies are only immune to ice, and they arent immune to EVERYTHING. when you play those games, does it suck when a measly varren type creature can also stop all your wizards magic too? i hope your wizard is good with swords! but wouldnt you want bioware to put as much effort into its game mechanics as those games did with theirs? isnt immunity to ice, but weak againt fire, better then immunity to EVERYTHING? thats basically what we want with ME2s enemy protections versus tech/biotics. those games are better becasue of it, and i think ME2 can reap the same benefits.

you think i want hacking to work on organics? or are you just trying to call me stupid.

You are either stupid or you have not played ME2 at all.

There are no enemies immune to biotic powers in ME2. Their protection only temporally shields them from some (biotic) powers. Protection is the first layer to go down, it's also the easiest and quickest layer to remove, after which the rules of the game change and new option become available to the player (which is the case most of the time spent in combat).

You make it sound like there isn't any health around on Insanity, which cannot be further from the truth because enemies have the most health on Insanity (compared to all the other difficulty levels). If you argue something like Pull or Throw sucks on Insanity, then they are utter useless on easier levels (according to your logic).

Furthermore, all biotic powers arc towards their targets. Casting whichever biotic power the moment enemies are in sight, gives you a few moments to either shoot down protection or use squadpowers. That would solve the issue before your biotic projectile has even reached its destination.

Oh, and there are biotic powers that work fine (and/or are specialized) in taking down defenses.

if protections are 50/50, im still playing the game as half an adept.

throw isnt useless on an enemy with only health, thats what im saying. difficulty levels have nothing to do with it. having barrier, armor, and shields do. i dont care if its casual or insanity, i dont care if protections are on varren or not, i just want them to be implemented with more apreciaition to the caster classes.

the biotic projectile hits the enemy much faster then i could ever take down their shields or whipe out a another enemy while throw is cruising towards them. you simply dont have a few moments to do what you suggest. even slow moving singularity wouldnt allow for that. i rarely have enough time to scope one enemy in and target another on insanity as it is. ME3s projectiles look to move even faster too.

warp bombs are awesome, so is OP-stasis. becasue they do as advertised.

So what if you can take out one guy with a pull....Adepts arn't based in strong singal attack. The never were. Their based on Crowd control....In ME1, Adepts tactics where lifting and hold groups at bay in the air. You could not kill enemies as an adept without some where to throw them off. In the end you lifted them and shot  them one by one to death. If you want to take out a guy in one shot, invest in reave. Other wise, find ways to bypass protection and warp bomb......which is faster than killing one by one which you use to do.

[dreman9999]

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper \\thər, ˈther\\ to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

[Shepard the Leper]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if protections are 50/50, im still playing the game as half an adept.

You mean you play half a [enter class]. What abilities do Soldiers have against protection? ARush does nothing, neither do the ammo powers, only the almighty CS works reasonably well against barriers. That's it.

Adepts can cast Singularity which will drain all protective layers and they can cast Warp to remove armor and barriers.

throw isnt useless on an enemy with only health, thats what im saying. difficulty levels have nothing to do with it. having barrier, armor, and shields do. i dont care if its casual or insanity, i dont care if protections are on varren or not, i just want them to be implemented with more apreciaition to the caster classes.

I think you expect a little too much from powers alone. Powers are meant to improve the overal combat potential, not to replace weapons (and squadmates) altogether. Soldier can use abilities to increase their weapon damage, but have to aim and hit the enemy (using weapons) first to make those abilities worth their while. Adepts can use biotic powers (without having to really aim) to improve their combat performance through direct damage and CC abilities. But both rely on using powers and weapons in harmony - that's the point of ME combat > using guns and abilities combined. The Adept destroying everything (fairly easy), without having to use weapons at all, defeats the whole concept of the franchise.

the biotic projectile hits the enemy much faster then i could ever take down their shields or whipe out a another enemy while throw is cruising towards them. you simply dont have a few moments to do what you suggest. even slow moving singularity wouldnt allow for that. i rarely have enough time to scope one enemy in and target another on insanity as it is. ME3s projectiles look to move even faster too.

Try using your squadmates to strip defenses. I usually cast a Singularity first, and when I press the button, I keep the cursor where it is and press the squadpower I need. Enemy will be without protection before Sing catches him. The GPS is also handy. Shoot and cast Pull/Throw at the same time; defenses will be shot down before projectile hits - even if the target is standing right in front of you.

warp bombs are awesome, so is OP-stasis. becasue they do as advertised.

To detonate warpbombs you need to remove protection first, which makes it a little bit harder to execute (on Insanity). A fair trade-off if you'd ask me. When you can warpbomb the lot immediately, you can complete battles before enemies have the chance to respond. This is ok on Casual, but it would defeat the purpose of a 'challenging' difficulty level.

Modifié par Shepard the Leper, 09 août 2011 - 05:57 .

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

hardened weave isnt why throw staggers someome.

throw staggers someone becasue that was how bioware wanted to make the game harder.

[The Spamming Troll]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if protections are 50/50, im still playing the game as half an adept.

You mean you play half a [enter class]. What abilities do Soldiers have against protection? ARush does nothing, neither do the ammo powers, only the almighty CS works reasonably well against barriers. That's it.

Adepts can cast Singularity which will drain all protective layers and they can cast Warp to remove armor and barriers.

thatd be because soldiers arent adepts. theres no difference to a
soldier with the addition enemy protections provide, other  then more
health. which is what i thought people hated seeing on insanity in ME1 in the first place.

i can slowly drain health with singularity, and i have warp to create
warp bombs, those are some features of the adept, yes, i agree

Shepard the Leper wrote...

To
detonate warpbombs you need to remove protection first, which makes it a
little bit harder to execute (on Insanity). A fair trade-off if you'd
ask me. When you can warpbomb the lot immediately, you can complete
battles before enemies have the chance to respond. This is ok on Casual,
but it would defeat the purpose of a 'challenging' difficulty level.

im not sure if it was you or dreman, but i tried pointing this out earlier with evolving abilities to work through protections in ME3. pull working through protections, doesnt mean warp bombs do too. if i invest in pull to work through protections and warp to explode on protections too, then my character wont be able to do interesting things with stasis and dominate. theres should always be pros and cons to evolving one way or the other, im not looking for that awesome button that biowares been advertising.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 août 2011 - 06:15 .

[Aumata]

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  Why do you not see the protections system as a game mechanic is beyond me, despite evidence proving otherwise.  Klixen, varen, on insanity, Shock absorbers and hardening working despite kinetic barriers are off, please for the love of all that is sane stop with these silly attempts of proving a game mechanic is valid in lore when evidence says other wise.  Last time we had this I also mention melee working on sheilds despite the fact that is is not suppose to happen.

It is a game mechanic in Mass effect 2 and 3.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

hardened weave isnt why throw staggers someome.

throw staggers someone becasue that was how bioware wanted to make the game harder.

......That upgrade clearly says"SHOCK ABSORBERS".........I know you can read. Don't play dumb.

[dreman9999]

Aumata wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  Why do you not see the protections system as a game mechanic is beyond me, despite evidence proving otherwise.  Klixen, varen, on insanity, Shock absorbers and hardening working despite kinetic barriers are off, please for the love of all that is sane stop with these silly attempts of proving a game mechanic is valid in lore when evidence says other wise.  Last time we had this I also mention melee working on sheilds despite the fact that is is not suppose to happen.

It is a game mechanic in Mass effect 2 and 3.

I sorry...Lore states...
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.
....
If she was lifted, then she did not have the upgrade. In the 2 years between ME1 and ME2, many armor upgrades are standard to compet with the extra fire power Guns have now.
So....
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if protections are 50/50, im still playing the game as half an adept.

You mean you play half a [enter class]. What abilities do Soldiers have against protection? ARush does nothing, neither do the ammo powers, only the almighty CS works reasonably well against barriers. That's it.

Adepts can cast Singularity which will drain all protective layers and they can cast Warp to remove armor and barriers.

thatd be because soldiers arent adepts. theres no difference to a
soldier with the addition enemy protections provide, other  then more
health. which is what i thought people hated seeing on insanity in ME1 in the first place.

i can slowly drain health with singularity, and i have warp to create
warp bombs, those are some features of the adept, yes, i agree

Shepard the Leper wrote...

To
detonate warpbombs you need to remove protection first, which makes it a
little bit harder to execute (on Insanity). A fair trade-off if you'd
ask me. When you can warpbomb the lot immediately, you can complete
battles before enemies have the chance to respond. This is ok on Casual,
but it would defeat the purpose of a 'challenging' difficulty level.

im not sure if it was you or dreman, but i tried pointing this out earlier with evolving abilities to work through protections in ME3. pull working through protections, doesnt mean warp bombs do too. if i invest in pull to work through protections and warp to explode on protections too, then my character wont be able to do interesting things with stasis and dominate. theres should always be pros and cons to evolving one way or the other, im not looking for that awesome button that biowares been advertising.

If lore states warp ignites all mass effect fields...what stoping warp from igniting the field lifting the target?

[Dave666]

dreman9999 wrote...

Aumata wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  Why do you not see the protections system as a game mechanic is beyond me, despite evidence proving otherwise.  Klixen, varen, on insanity, Shock absorbers and hardening working despite kinetic barriers are off, please for the love of all that is sane stop with these silly attempts of proving a game mechanic is valid in lore when evidence says other wise.  Last time we had this I also mention melee working on sheilds despite the fact that is is not suppose to happen.

It is a game mechanic in Mass effect 2 and 3.

I sorry...Lore states...
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.
....
If she was lifted, then she did not have the upgrade. In the 2 years between ME1 and ME2, many armor upgrades are standard to compet with the extra fire power Guns have now.
So....
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

The problem is that such an argument makes little to no sense from a logical stand point.

Armour and Shielding would logically evolve to be better at dealing with whatever it faces more often.

Everyone and their dog has a gun, whereas those with Biotic abilities are rather rare.

Are you trying to tell me that Armour Manufacturers would randomly decide to work on upgrading their armours capabilities against a rare ocurence rather than something that the wearer is likely to face every day?

Are you trying to tell me that Biotic users are incapable of using abilities in slightly different ways to counteract improvements to technological upgrades?

The only way that enemy protections makes sense is to artificially inflate the dificulty of the game and even then it only inflates the dificulty for a few classes, not all classes equally.

Modifié par Dave666, 09 août 2011 - 08:01 .

[dreman9999]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aumata wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  Why do you not see the protections system as a game mechanic is beyond me, despite evidence proving otherwise.  Klixen, varen, on insanity, Shock absorbers and hardening working despite kinetic barriers are off, please for the love of all that is sane stop with these silly attempts of proving a game mechanic is valid in lore when evidence says other wise.  Last time we had this I also mention melee working on sheilds despite the fact that is is not suppose to happen.

It is a game mechanic in Mass effect 2 and 3.

I sorry...Lore states...
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.
....
If she was lifted, then she did not have the upgrade. In the 2 years between ME1 and ME2, many armor upgrades are standard to compet with the extra fire power Guns have now.
So....
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

The problem is that such an argument makes little to no sense from a logical stand point.

Armour and Shielding would logically evolve to be better at dealing with whatever it faces more often.

Everyone and their dog has a gun, whereas those with Biotic abilities are rather rare.

Are you trying to tell me that Armour Manufacturers would randomly decide to work on upgrading their armours capabilities against a rare ocurence rather than something that the wearer is likely to face every day?

Are you trying to tell me that Biotic users are incapable of using abilities in slightly different ways to counteract improvements to technological upgrades?

The only way that enemy protections makes sense is to artificially inflate the dificulty of the game and even then it only inflates the dificulty for a few classes, not all classes equally.

Ofcouse they  would. Just because it rare among races just mean the normal person in day to daylife will not meet them unless they meet an asari. And it is lore based that the mass majority of biotics are in militaries and combat bands. Add in the fact that not checked, one person can take out a group because that group has no biotic protect and it easier to pin people down with gun fire now that gun fore takes out protection easily. A group together always means easy kill for an adept.  And lt not forget the Asari who are all biotics? What will you do with no biotic and tech protection facing an eclips band?

[No Snakes Alive]

Dave666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Aumata wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sense in creating awesome lore only to crap on it in the second game for sake of gameplay preferences.

.

"Their"(The proper thər, ˈther to use)is no sence is quoting ME awesone lore if you don't know it yourself.
http://masseffect.wi...Shock_Absorbers

Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  Why do you not see the protections system as a game mechanic is beyond me, despite evidence proving otherwise.  Klixen, varen, on insanity, Shock absorbers and hardening working despite kinetic barriers are off, please for the love of all that is sane stop with these silly attempts of proving a game mechanic is valid in lore when evidence says other wise.  Last time we had this I also mention melee working on sheilds despite the fact that is is not suppose to happen.

It is a game mechanic in Mass effect 2 and 3.

I sorry...Lore states...
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.
....
If she was lifted, then she did not have the upgrade. In the 2 years between ME1 and ME2, many armor upgrades are standard to compet with the extra fire power Guns have now.
So....
Shock Absorbers
Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially
increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered
by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or
Throw.

The problem is that such an argument makes little to no sense from a logical stand point.

Armour and Shielding would logically evolve to be better at dealing with whatever it faces more often.

Everyone and their dog has a gun, whereas those with Biotic abilities are rather rare.

Are you trying to tell me that Armour Manufacturers would randomly decide to work on upgrading their armours capabilities against a rare ocurence rather than something that the wearer is likely to face every day?

Are you trying to tell me that Biotic users are incapable of using abilities in slightly different ways to counteract improvements to technological upgrades?

The only way that enemy protections makes sense is to artificially inflate the dificulty of the game and even then it only inflates the dificulty for a few classes, not all classes equally.

It makes just as much sense to think that Armor and Shields and Barriers could protect against Biotics as it does to think Shepard can fling heavily armored enemy after heavily armored enemy around with his mind without even so much as having to weaken them first. Because that wouldn't strain him/her beyond belief, right? Is it so difficult to use your brain to bridge the lore and the gameplay where the dots aren't outright connected for you?

And for the thousandth time, can you not just turn the difficulty down if it bothers you so much? You think the difficulty is arbitrarily inflated on Insanity with a fun and challenging mechanic that can be explained with the slightest ounce of thought, but I think it's arbitrarily deflated on the lower difficulties because it makes no sense that this one man can just toss people around without a fight first. Do I complain it needs a fix of just play the difficulty that suits me? Can't you just do the same and stop being so salty over nothing?

[SirBlakhawk]

Lol I haven't played Adept, yet. And what's this talk about insanity? You still can't pull an armored enemy on Normal or even casual but you can shockwave them. And enough with the shock absorbers, you already stated that overpower would avoid that. What I'm saying is if your Shepard evolved his biotics enough to be able to.
I also didn't state that I want pull and throw to be open yet useless on armored enemy. I said I want it to have a lesser effect (due to shock absorbers bla bla bla and all that) on armored enemies than the ones who don't (lesser, not completely useless) that way it incorporates what you believe is in lore about armors and what I believe is in lore about biotic ability. And it perfectly MAKES sense when it comes to gameplay. If Singularity and warp is better vs. protection then just use that. But it still shouldn't stop you from not using it.
But from the point of view of imagining that it doesn't allow you because Shepard would prefer to use better choices than pull/throw then yeah that makes sense, you do have a point there. I don't understand the big deal about the argument though. I just want it to be POSSIBLE to use just like when I charge/shockwave enemies even though those do nothing. I'm not saying it should be completely useless, or it doesn't take into account protection, but a sort of balance of: IF Shepbiotic lvl > protection level THEN throw = 1/2 Newtons. Or something to that order. Where if you're a biotic god then puny protected enemies mean nothing to you but an enemy like Saren would resist that.
I'm not ragging on gameplay, I love ME1 and ME2. I believe a hybrid of both would really work out like what is being said in ME3. In ME1 your lvl vs. enemy lvl mattered. I'm asking for a sort hybrid. I'm not demanding it, I'm just saying it could work, although it's possibly too late now where all this discussion doesn't matter. It's not like I'm saying everyone MUST use pull/throw vs. protection, just those who want to.. can, and have a fair system in game to not make it overpowered.

[Shepard the Leper]

Dave666 wrote...

The problem is that such an argument makes little to no sense from a logical stand point.

Armour and Shielding would logically evolve to be better at dealing with whatever it faces more often.

Everyone and their dog has a gun, whereas those with Biotic abilities are rather rare.

Are you trying to tell me that Armour Manufacturers would randomly decide to work on upgrading their armours capabilities against a rare ocurence rather than something that the wearer is likely to face every day?

Are you trying to tell me that Biotic users are incapable of using abilities in slightly different ways to counteract improvements to technological upgrades?

The only way that enemy protections makes sense is to artificially inflate the difficulty of the game and even then it only inflates the difficulty for a few classes, not all classes equally.

Everything you say is true and in ME2. Only the biggest baddies always have some form of initial protection.

I'd think it's unlikely for biotics to simply counter defenses, specifically designed to block their attacks. It's not like switching to another biotic frequently or something.

I also think protection is the only feasible way to increase difficulty. Without, the game is a joke and no fun for me to play at all anymore. The first time I played Adept was on Veteran and I liked it at first, but most fights included only one, or sometimes two, elite enemies who survived the fist couple seconds biotic storm. There have to be a lot more enemies in play to make removing protection an option - which is not possible with the current hardware I'm afraid.

[dreman9999]

SirBlakhawk wrote...

Lol I haven't played Adept, yet. And what's this talk about insanity? You still can't pull an armored enemy on Normal or even casual but you can shockwave them. And enough with the shock absorbers, you already stated that overpower would avoid that. What I'm saying is if your Shepard evolved his biotics enough to be able to.
I also didn't state that I want pull and throw to be open yet useless on armored enemy. I said I want it to have a lesser effect (due to shock absorbers bla bla bla and all that) on armored enemies than the ones who don't (lesser, not completely useless) that way it incorporates what you believe is in lore about armors and what I believe is in lore about biotic ability. And it perfectly MAKES sense when it comes to gameplay. If Singularity and warp is better vs. protection then just use that. But it still shouldn't stop you from not using it.
But from the point of view of imagining that it doesn't allow you because Shepard would prefer to use better choices than pull/throw then yeah that makes sense, you do have a point there. I don't understand the big deal about the argument though. I just want it to be POSSIBLE to use just like when I charge/shockwave enemies even though those do nothing. I'm not saying it should be completely useless, or it doesn't take into account protection, but a sort of balance of: IF Shepbiotic lvl > protection level THEN throw = 1/2 Newtons. Or something to that order. Where if you're a biotic god then puny protected enemies mean nothing to you but an enemy like Saren would resist that.
I'm not ragging on gameplay, I love ME1 and ME2. I believe a hybrid of both would really work out like what is being said in ME3. In ME1 your lvl vs. enemy lvl mattered. I'm asking for a sort hybrid. I'm not demanding it, I'm just saying it could work, although it's possibly too late now where all this discussion doesn't matter. It's not like I'm saying everyone MUST use pull/throw vs. protection, just those who want to.. can, and have a fair system in game to not make it overpowered.

And what's stoping all yor biotics from bypassing  protection? The point I'm saying is that protction in ME is based on power source. As long as the power source is up to power the device or tecnique stopping biotics and tech attacks working on you,  the longer you stay uneffected. Biotic power sorce is them selve but they need time to recoperatad to put it back up to use it. Everyone else is a battery source. Though the only plot whole in it is with verren.

[No Snakes Alive]

I've honestly never seen such nitpicking in my life (aside from the Omni-blade debates). Making it so that Pull and Throw can be used on protected enemies, just to minimal effect, instead of being unable to use them to any effect is ridiculous, and would be a waste of Bioware's time and resources.

By that token I demand that Cryo Blast at least make armored foes shiver in ME3! On a serious note, like you partially agreed with me to before, why allow Shepard to do something he or she would not do? If shredding the armor off a mech with Warp before tossing it into the wall at 1000 miles per hour with his/her mind helps to ease the migraine, then who cares if the game doesn't let you at least shove the enemy back a few feet when they are armored? Don't be so silly.

[dreman9999]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I've honestly never seen such nitpicking in my life (aside from the Omni-blade debates). Making it so that Pull and Throw can be used on protected enemies, just to minimal effect, instead of being unable to use them to any effect is ridiculous, and would be a waste of Bioware's time and resources.

By that token I demand that Cryo Blast at least make armored foes shiver in ME3! On a serious note, like you partially agreed with me to before, why allow Shepard to do something he or she would not do? If shredding the armor off a mech with Warp before tossing it into the wall at 1000 miles per hour with his/her mind helps to ease the migraine, then who cares if the game doesn't let you at least shove the enemy back a few feet when they are armored? Don't be so silly.

Cryo blast is making enemies slow down in ME3.

[RedCaesar97]

Aumata wrote...
I just played Mass Effect on the feros and the asari clone is immune to my throw but not my lift, even with kinetic barrier off.  

And that is what I found annoying in ME1, where some enemies were just immune to some attacks, usually biotics, for no reason. For example, take the Krogan Battlemaster on Therum (Liara recruitment mission). Most people play this mission first, so you are a very low-level character, no good upgrades, and have not unlocked the Luna VI mission yet so you do not have your class specialization yet.

If it is your first time playing as an Adept, you see the Krogan charging, and you use the one ability you do have: Throw. Throw fails, the Krogan melees, and you see the mission failure screen. Repeatedly. Same thing with other enemies, where Throw or Singularity just inexplicably would not work.

With ME2's protection system, Red Health Bar = all powers work. And when an enemy has a protection up, you know that he is immune to your powers, but that certain weapons and powers gain significant damage bonuses against that protection type and can even remove it completely.

[Praetor Knight]

And a word on nutrition...



Earlier there was discussion about protections to health, here's the video: www.youtube.com/user/sinosleep007

And the thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5630902

[RedCaesar97]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

And a word on nutrition...



Earlier there was discussion about protections to health, here's the video: www.youtube.com/user/sinosleep007

And the thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5630902

Thanks for finding those. I found the video earlier but could never find the thread.

[Aumata]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if protections are 50/50, im still playing the game as half an adept.

You mean you play half a [enter class]. What abilities do Soldiers have against protection? ARush does nothing, neither do the ammo powers, only the almighty CS works reasonably well against barriers. That's it.

Adepts can cast Singularity which will drain all protective layers and they can cast Warp to remove armor and barriers.

thatd be because soldiers arent adepts. theres no difference to a
soldier with the addition enemy protections provide, other  then more
health. which is what i thought people hated seeing on insanity in ME1 in the first place.

i can slowly drain health with singularity, and i have warp to create
warp bombs, those are some features of the adept, yes, i agree

Shepard the Leper wrote...

To
detonate warpbombs you need to remove protection first, which makes it a
little bit harder to execute (on Insanity). A fair trade-off if you'd
ask me. When you can warpbomb the lot immediately, you can complete
battles before enemies have the chance to respond. This is ok on Casual,
but it would defeat the purpose of a 'challenging' difficulty level.

im not sure if it was you or dreman, but i tried pointing this out earlier with evolving abilities to work through protections in ME3. pull working through protections, doesnt mean warp bombs do too. if i invest in pull to work through protections and warp to explode on protections too, then my character wont be able to do interesting things with stasis and dominate. theres should always be pros and cons to evolving one way or the other, im not looking for that awesome button that biowares been advertising.

If lore states warp ignites all mass effect fields...what stoping warp from igniting the field lifting the target?

If that was the case why don't my warp ignite a kinetic barrier because that is what a kinetic barrier is a mass effect field.

[Praetor Knight]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I've honestly never seen such nitpicking in my life (aside from the Omni-blade debates). Making it so that Pull and Throw can be used on protected enemies, just to minimal effect, instead of being unable to use them to any effect is ridiculous, and would be a waste of Bioware's time and resources.

By that token I demand that Cryo Blast at least make armored foes shiver in ME3! On a serious note, like you partially agreed with me to before, why allow Shepard to do something he or she would not do? If shredding the armor off a mech with Warp before tossing it into the wall at 1000 miles per hour with his/her mind helps to ease the migraine, then who cares if the game doesn't let you at least shove the enemy back a few feet when they are armored? Don't be so silly.

Well, there were some tweets that I saw, where balancing was being done on the classes, dunno if that is currently ongoing.

I just hope that this sort of feedback is useful for them!

[SirBlakhawk]

dreman9999 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I've honestly never seen such nitpicking in my life (aside from the Omni-blade debates). Making it so that Pull and Throw can be used on protected enemies, just to minimal effect, instead of being unable to use them to any effect is ridiculous, and would be a waste of Bioware's time and resources.

By that token I demand that Cryo Blast at least make armored foes shiver in ME3! On a serious note, like you partially agreed with me to before, why allow Shepard to do something he or she would not do? If shredding the armor off a mech with Warp before tossing it into the wall at 1000 miles per hour with his/her mind helps to ease the migraine, then who cares if the game doesn't let you at least shove the enemy back a few feet when they are armored? Don't be so silly.

Cryo blast is making enemies slow down in ME3.

^That. If that's the case then I guess they will do the same with pull and throw and most other abilities, where there is a power vs. protection balance. Which makes this whole discussion useless.

But for the sake of who cares, I agree it shouldn't matter, but then what does it matter if they do make it possible. No one's losing. What if I want to angle my throw to give the armored enemy standing on a ledge just tip needed to topple him over. Extremely rare to happen but not impossible. All I'm saying is this is a way to make a balance to those of you who want it to be possible at all times and those who never want it to be possible. It makes everyone happy as those who don't want it can stick to their superior awesome tactics of knowing how to play an Adept on Insanity and should never use pull/throw as they're not as good as vs. protected compared to warp and singularity.

Denying it completely is against the lore where Shepard is not supposed to be the best biotic ever (although some Adept fans would disagree maybe) but should get to a point where he's strong enough to over come resistances. And saying it's too time consuming as why it shouldn't be implemented isn't a defence. That's Bioware's decision, and if they deem that it will comprimise the story or gameplay in any way that they won't like then I will respect their decision. And at that I concede. Good points are being made on both sides and I was just saying maybe we should look to the middle ground, that's all. Can't wait for ME3!

[Praetor Knight]

SirBlakhawk wrote...

What if I want to angle my throw to give the armored enemy standing on a ledge just tip needed to topple him over. Extremely rare to happen but not impossible. All I'm saying is this is a way to make a balance to those of you who want it to be possible at all times and those who never want it to be possible. It makes everyone happy as those who don't want it can stick to their superior awesome tactics of knowing how to play an Adept on Insanity and should never use pull/throw as they're not as good as vs. protected compared to warp and singularity.

Denying it completely is against the lore where Shepard is not supposed to be the best biotic ever (although some Adept fans would disagree maybe) but should get to a point where he's strong enough to over come resistances. And saying it's too time consuming as why it shouldn't be implemented isn't a defence. That's Bioware's decision, and if they deem that it will comprimise the story or gameplay in any way that they won't like then I will respect their decision. And at that I concede. Good points are being made on both sides and I was just saying maybe we should look to the middle ground, that's all. Can't wait for ME3!

I guess the other aspect, aside from body armors used is how biotics are made in the first place and how to make it work in gameplay. So, here's some Codex snippets on Biotics:

Biotics

Biotics is the ability of rare individuals to manipulate dark energy and create mass effect fields through the use of electrical impulses from the brain. Intense training and surgically-implanted amplifiers are necessary for a biotic to produce mass effect fields powerful enough for practical use. The relative strength of biotic abilities varies greatly among species and with each individual.

Biotics: Biotic Amps

Biotics manipulate mass effect fields using dozens of element zero nodules within their nervous system that react to electric stimuli from the brain. Amplifiers allow biotics to synchronize the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.

An implant is surgically-embedded interface port into which amps are "plugged in". On humans, the implant is usually placed at the base of the skull for convenient access, though the user must be careful to keep it free of contaminants.

Implant ports can fit a variety of amps, and there is a growing market for modifications and add-ons. The finest quality implants and amps are manufactured by asari artisans, but the Alliance's L3 implants - first deployed in 2170 - are a significant step forward.

Biotics: Life as a Biotic

Biotics possess extraordinary abilities, but they must live with minor inconveniences. The most obvious issue is getting adequate nutrition. Creating biotic mass effects takes such a toll on metabolism that active biotics develop ravenous appetites. The standard Alliance combat ration for a soldier is 3000 calories per day; biotics are given 4500, as well as a canteen of potent energy drink for quick refreshment after hard combat.

Another issue is electric charge. Electricity accumulated in starship drive cores must be discharged, and so must the electricity in a biotic user. Biotics are prone to small static discharges when they touch metal.

Biotics: Training

Biotic implants and amplifiers only provide the potential to create coherent mass effect fields. Whether biotics can actually do so is largely determined by their training.

Biotics must develop conscious control over their nervous systems, sending specific electrical impulses to the element zero nodules embedded in their nerves. They are taught to use their implants and amps with biofeedback devices and physical mnemonics. Specific gestures or muscle movements fire the proper sequence of nerves to activate a certain skill.

[Fathom72]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

And a word on nutrition...



Earlier there was discussion about protections to health, here's the video: www.youtube.com/user/sinosleep007

And the thread: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5630902

/thread.  I'm bookmarking that link so I can post it any other time this discussion comes up.