313 réponses à ce sujet

[RPGamer13]

dreman9999 wrote...

That's the problem...Your using them to do a drect attack. Your no sappost to. They are Crowd control powers. Throw and pull are the fastest cooling down powers, meaning they are spamable. Just use 3 max out heavy throws and the enemies shield will be out in 3 throws. Shockwave is just a cover reset. Use it to knock targets out of cover so they can be attacked. When a target gets hit by any attack power they get stunned, they get out of cover when stunned and not fire back. Use some planning to get the most out of the powers.

But you can't knock an enemy out of cover with Shockwave if they HAVE A FORM OF PROTECTION!

And why use that when I can just Charge an enemy.  Also, as a vanguard, to get to throw you have to spend points in Shockwave.


I only play Vanguard, so my complaints all pertain to that class.  If the same abilities are more useful for other classes, great, but that doesn't help Vanguard.

I feel like they gave Vanguard the worst moveset.  I used Incendiary Ammo, Charge, and tried out Barrier/Reave more than I used all the other Vanguard active abilities.


I also used ammo to take down barriers, but by the time I did that, I could very quickly take down the rest of the health because abilities were still on cooldown because I just got rid of my target's friend using Charge and the Claymore.  To get to Throw it took me almost the entire game before I had points to even get to it and I am not going to use an ability that I haven't had access to for such a long time.

No Snakes Alive wrote...


And it's sad because I've yet to see an Engineer player complain that it makes no sense that Cryo does
nothing on a protected foe. Are Engineer players more intelligent or less whiny? It makes sense gameplay-wise and that's what matters most.

What!?

No wonder Cryo ammo sucks!  How does protection keep someone from being frozen?  That's just stupid.

Shepard the Leper wrote...



This is utter nonsense. The protection-health ratio is 50-50; powers and weapons receive massive multipliers against protection - none against health.

Not true: Shredder Ammo and the damage from setting an enemy on fire is a pretty significant bonus to red bar damage.

Modifié par RPGamer13, 10 août 2011 - 01:21 .

[Praetor Knight]

RPGamer13 wrote...

But you can't knock an enemy out of cover with Shockwave if they HAVE A FORM OF PROTECTION!

And why use that when I can just Charge an enemy.  Also, as a vanguard, to get to throw you have to spend points in Shockwave.


I only play Vanguard, so my complaints all pertain to that class.  If the same abilities are more useful for other classes, great, but that doesn't help Vanguard.

I feel like they gave Vanguard the worst moveset.  I used Incendiary Ammo, Charge, and tried out Barrier/Reave more than I used all the other Vanguard active abilities.


I also used ammo to take down barriers, but by the time I did that, I could very quickly take down the rest of the health because abilities were still on cooldown because I just got rid of my target's friend using Charge and the Claymore.  To get to Throw it took me almost the entire game before I had points to even get to it and I am not going to use an ability that I haven't had access to for such a long time.

I know you mean Pull instead of throw, but I agree that Shockwave is one power that could benefit from some improvements. My question is where could improvements be done, in the power itself or with a greater variety of animations and longer staggers, from Shockwave?



Also what would you like to see in the class? One thing that I think would be interesting is giving the class it's own Overpower / Amplification power to chain it's other powers.

I can imagine chain casting Charge, which I assume would not have any locking-on problems as in ME2 in ME3.


Edit: Adding video of shockwave on Insanity. www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 09 août 2011 - 11:25 .

[adonfraz]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

RPGamer13 wrote...

But you can't knock an enemy out of cover with Shockwave if they HAVE A FORM OF PROTECTION!

And why use that when I can just Charge an enemy.  Also, as a vanguard, to get to throw you have to spend points in Shockwave.


I only play Vanguard, so my complaints all pertain to that class.  If the same abilities are more useful for other classes, great, but that doesn't help Vanguard.

I feel like they gave Vanguard the worst moveset.  I used Incendiary Ammo, Charge, and tried out Barrier/Reave more than I used all the other Vanguard active abilities.


I also used ammo to take down barriers, but by the time I did that, I could very quickly take down the rest of the health because abilities were still on cooldown because I just got rid of my target's friend using Charge and the Claymore.  To get to Throw it took me almost the entire game before I had points to even get to it and I am not going to use an ability that I haven't had access to for such a long time.

I know you mean Pull instead of throw, but I agree that Shockwave is one power that could benefit from some improvements. My question is where could improvements be done, in the power itself or with a greater variety of animations and longer staggers, from Shockwave?



Also what would you like to see in the class? One thing that I think would be interesting is giving the class it's own Overpower / Amplification power to chain it's other powers.

I can imagine chain casting Charge, which I assume would not have any locking-on problems as in ME2 in ME3.

Shockwave could be anti-shields (not as good as overload) and stun protected enemies 2-3 seconds.

[Praetor Knight]

adonfraz wrote...

Shockwave could be anti-shields (not as good as overload) and stun protected enemies 2-3 seconds.

I think a longer stun would be nice for sure.

Here's another video for Vanguard using Shockwave: www.youtube.com/watch, and impressive when enemies got behind Shepard

[RPGamer13]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I know you mean Pull instead of throw, but I agree that Shockwave is one power that could benefit from some improvements. My question is where could improvements be done, in the power itself or with a greater variety of animations and longer staggers, from Shockwave?


Also what would you like to see in the class? One thing that I think would be interesting is giving the class it's own Overpower / Amplification power to chain it's other powers.

I can imagine chain casting Charge, which I assume would not have any locking-on problems as in ME2 in ME3.

Oh, Vanguard has Pull?  Well, it's the same thing anyway, just the direction is different.  Both equally ineffective on Insanity.

To be honest, I didn't notice any staggering with Shockwave or Pull or Throw.  Cryo Ammo also didn't freeze enemies as often as I thought it should.  I mostly saw it happen when the enemy was almost dead anyway, and I am talking about even on Insanity.


What would I like to see in the class?

Well, for one, Charge knocking back 'naked' enemies hurt me more than it helped.  Maybe if they could perhaps with an area improvement that it only knocks back enemies in the effect area, keeping the target intact.  Or they could at least put in a delay before the target is knocked back.  With the slowdown effect, the enemy shouldn't already be thrown back when you hit the enemy.


This may not sound like it, but I am serious even if it isn't going to happen, Katana.  We've seen an image of a Female Cerberus soldier with what looks like a futuristic, straight bladed katana.  Ever since I saw that, my hope was it would be a weapon equippable by a Vanguard Shepard.  Some sort of melee weapons, it would go perfectly with what is supposed to be the class' focus.

I also hope the reworking of Shotgun damage makes them stronger when you're dead in the enemy's face.

Then there's the 'heavy melee' attack.  They already gave Soldier Shepard the Retro Lancer's charge with the Omni-Blade, so Vanguard needs something even better than that.  This goes with my previous idea and perhaps with the heavy melee a katana could be made and Shepard can then use it for a certain number of strikes or something after dealing with the initial target.

Beyond that, I'm not entirely sure.  I just know we need a better skillset than what we got in ME2 or they rework how abilities affect protected opponents.

[Praetor Knight]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Cryo Ammo also didn't freeze enemies as often as I thought it should.  I mostly saw it happen when the enemy was almost dead anyway, and I am talking about even on Insanity.

I know what you mean with that activating, what's happening is that ammo powers go by the base damage of each bullet or pellet so the Mattock, Phalanx, Carnifex and the Sniper Rifles have an easier time with getting a single shot freezing when hitting directly on health. Shotguns with the eight pellets also have a better chance with one shot, I dunno why the GPS doesn't seem more consistent, since it has reasonable damage with it's three pellets.

This may not sound like it, but I am serious even if it isn't going to happen, Katana.  We've seen an image of a Female Cerberus soldier with what looks like a futuristic, straight bladed katana.  Ever since I saw that, my hope was it would be a weapon equippable by a Vanguard Shepard.  Some sort of melee weapons, it would go perfectly with what is supposed to be the class' focus.

I've thought that giving the Vanguard a melee strike similar to what I posted here would be cool. social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/7937350/1#7938460

RPGamer13 wrote...

What would I like to see in the class?

Well, for one, Charge knocking back 'naked' enemies hurt me more than it helped.  Maybe if they could perhaps with an area improvement that it only knocks back enemies in the effect area, keeping the target intact.  Or they could at least put in a delay before the target is knocked back.  With the slowdown effect, the enemy shouldn't already be thrown back when you hit the enemy.

I also hope the reworking of Shotgun damage makes them stronger when you're dead in the enemy's face.

That could be for one of the new Charge evolutions. But Shotguns seemed fine as-is, maybe something that can stun enemies either related to Inferno or with Charge itself.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 10 août 2011 - 02:02 .

[RPGamer13]

Maybe, but your pictures of Guyver and the character from Human Revolution don't convince me.

Though your idea sounds similar to Rayne from BloodRayne, does that sound accurate? (the video game, not the horrible movies)

Your explanation on Cryo Ammo helps me to understand why my SMG wasn't making it happen like I thought it should, my process was more bullets should mean a higher chance of freezing, right?

I was using the SMG more often because on any difficulty, playing how I like to play gets me killed quick.

[Praetor Knight]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Maybe, but your pictures of Guyver and the character from Human Revolution don't convince me.

Though your idea sounds similar to Rayne from BloodRayne, does that sound accurate? (the video game, not the horrible movies)

Your explanation on Cryo Ammo helps me to understand why my SMG wasn't making it happen like I thought it should, my process was more bullets should mean a higher chance of freezing, right?

I was using the SMG more often because on any difficulty, playing how I like to play gets me killed quick.

I dunno anything about Bloodrayne actually. But another interesting idea is for the vanguard to use a biotic knee strike or kick.



Yeah, more rounds provide more opportunities to freeze, I've heard the formula works like a percentage for each individual shot, but I'm not entirely sure if that is correct. Here's a thread on some gameplay data we do have social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/261/index/1143264#1144251

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 10 août 2011 - 02:21 .

[No Snakes Alive]

RPGamer13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's the problem...Your using them to do a drect attack. Your no sappost to. They are Crowd control powers. Throw and pull are the fastest cooling down powers, meaning they are spamable. Just use 3 max out heavy throws and the enemies shield will be out in 3 throws. Shockwave is just a cover reset. Use it to knock targets out of cover so they can be attacked. When a target gets hit by any attack power they get stunned, they get out of cover when stunned and not fire back. Use some planning to get the most out of the powers.

But you can't knock an enemy out of cover with Shockwave if they HAVE A FORM OF PROTECTION!

And why use that when I can just Charge an enemy.  Also, as a vanguard, to get to throw you have to spend points in Shockwave.


I only play Vanguard, so my complaints all pertain to that class.  If the same abilities are more useful for other classes, great, but that doesn't help Vanguard.

I feel like they gave Vanguard the worst moveset.  I used Incendiary Ammo, Charge, and tried out Barrier/Reave more than I used all the other Vanguard active abilities.


I also used ammo to take down barriers, but by the time I did that, I could very quickly take down the rest of the health because abilities were still on cooldown because I just got rid of my target's friend using Charge and the Claymore.  To get to Throw it took me almost the entire game before I had points to even get to it and I am not going to use an ability that I haven't had access to for such a long time.

No Snakes Alive wrote...


And it's sad because I've yet to see an Engineer player complain that it makes no sense that Cryo does
nothing on a protected foe. Are Engineer players more intelligent or less whiny? It makes sense gameplay-wise and that's what matters most.

What!?

No wonder Cryo ammo sucks!  How does protection keep someone from being frozen?  That's just stupid.

Shepard the Leper wrote...



This is utter nonsense. The protection-health ratio is 50-50; powers and weapons receive massive multipliers against protection - none against health.

Not true: Shredder Ammo and the damage from setting an enemy on fire is a pretty significant bonus to red bar damage.

What a bold claim from someone who's only played Vanguard. Cryo-blast and Cryo-ammo are so useful - yes, even on Insanity - it's not even funny. So many people on these forums completely disregard powers that are only effective once protections are removed as useless and I've come to the conclusion that not a single one of you is even halfway decent at this game. There's just absolutely no way you can make it through Insanity with the mindset that all there is to the game is defense-stripping and damage-dealing without getting obliterated often. You do realize that unprotected enemies are still shooting at you the entire time, right?

Engineer (and an aggro CQC shotgun Engineer at that) was actually the one class with which I beat the game on Insanity without dying once, in large part due to Cryo Blast (although, tbh, Combat Drone was the real savior).

The idea that you can just remove every enemy's defense and then shoot them dead on Insanity seems to be people's undoing here. You even admitted you die often, and I can see why. The people that find Throw/Pull/Cryo-blast/etc useless because it doesn't work on protected enemies can't possibly do well on Insanity with all the heat they're taking 24/7, can you? CC is a huuuuge part of success on the higher difficulties, especially with classes like the Engineer and Adept.

Now on an unrelated note I do agree with you in that, while the Vanguard had the coolest class exclusive power, it was the most lacking class of all when it came to the rest of its powers. Hopefully its new ME3 exclusive power changes that. *Fingers crossed.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 10 août 2011 - 03:13 .

[dreman9999]

RPGamer13 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That's the problem...Your using them to do a drect attack. Your no sappost to. They are Crowd control powers. Throw and pull are the fastest cooling down powers, meaning they are spamable. Just use 3 max out heavy throws and the enemies shield will be out in 3 throws. Shockwave is just a cover reset. Use it to knock targets out of cover so they can be attacked. When a target gets hit by any attack power they get stunned, they get out of cover when stunned and not fire back. Use some planning to get the most out of the powers.

But you can't knock an enemy out of cover with Shockwave if they HAVE A FORM OF PROTECTION!

And why use that when I can just Charge an enemy.  Also, as a vanguard, to get to throw you have to spend points in Shockwave.


I only play Vanguard, so my complaints all pertain to that class.  If the same abilities are more useful for other classes, great, but that doesn't help Vanguard.

I feel like they gave Vanguard the worst moveset.  I used Incendiary Ammo, Charge, and tried out Barrier/Reave more than I used all the other Vanguard active abilities.


I also used ammo to take down barriers, but by the time I did that, I could very quickly take down the rest of the health because abilities were still on cooldown because I just got rid of my target's friend using Charge and the Claymore.  To get to Throw it took me almost the entire game before I had points to even get to it and I am not going to use an ability that I haven't had access to for such a long time.

No Snakes Alive wrote...


And it's sad because I've yet to see an Engineer player complain that it makes no sense that Cryo does
nothing on a protected foe. Are Engineer players more intelligent or less whiny? It makes sense gameplay-wise and that's what matters most.

What!?

No wonder Cryo ammo sucks!  How does protection keep someone from being frozen?  That's just stupid.

Shepard the Leper wrote...



This is utter nonsense. The protection-health ratio is 50-50; powers and weapons receive massive multipliers against protection - none against health.

Not true: Shredder Ammo and the damage from setting an enemy on fire is a pretty significant bonus to red bar damage.

...Yes, you can use shockwave to knock armored enemies out of cover.
 You just can't send them flying in the air with the power. It sound that your not understanding what it mean...All attack powers when use on a target stuns the target and staggers them regardless of protection. When staggered in cover they stand up out of cover ...referring to knocking them out of cover. When stunned like this, they can't fire back, and they are more avalible to be fired on. All attack powers do this to all targests outside of Ymir mechs and Geth primes.
Also, cryo ammo is prime for charging close ranged Vanguards. If you don't use cryo ammo close ranged, your not using Vanguards right.
Shock wave is for "stunning" targets and getting them out of cover to attack at mid ranged...Like this.http://www.youtube.com/user/MrBozorgmehr#p/a/u/0/7u6j35e8bNM

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 août 2011 - 03:29 .

[SirBlakhawk]

I think you're misunderstanding that they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun . Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it for the visual effects though.

[lazuli]

SirBlakhawk wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding that they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun . Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it for the visual effects though.

Skills that are red can still be used, just with reduced effectiveness.

[SirBlakhawk]

Well for me it wasn't reduced effectiveness. You could press on it but nothing would happen.

[dreman9999]

SirBlakhawk wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding that they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun . Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it for the visual effects though.

Lol.....:lol:...........
Go in the game and when to pause and are locked on the enemy with protection......Click the power with the "Weird sign on it"...... Surpisingly, the power works..... just not init's full effect.
 When that power hits the target, the target stagger out of cover....Using pull staggers them out of cover instead of lifting them in the air or just plainly if they are out of cover already,it stuns them where they stand.....Same with throw...and shockwave, and incinerate blast ...and cyro blast......and concussion shot...... Also, overload over heats weapons on unprotected enemies as well as destrupor ammo.
That weird sign just means the full effect of the power will not effect the target, not that the power can't be used. Pull will effect the target no matter what, even take some of the protection off, just if they have protection they stagger and are stunned for a few moments.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 août 2011 - 07:15 .

[in2seconds]

The only thing that they had to change is how the powers react to the enemies "logically". As others pointed it out here, using a cryo ammo to an enemy will freeze him immediately, same as using incinerate. Physics based attacks like biotics/concussive shot and some others needs some effect like damage shields + health. (I mean come on, if you're hit with something and your wearing a protective clothing, you'd still gonna feel the pain.)

[RPGamer13]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

What a bold claim from someone who's only played Vanguard. Cryo-blast and Cryo-ammo are so useful - yes, even on Insanity - it's not even funny. So many people on these forums completely disregard powers that are only effective once protections are removed as useless and I've come to the conclusion that not a single one of you is even halfway decent at this game. There's just absolutely no way you can make it through Insanity with the mindset that all there is to the game is defense-stripping and damage-dealing without getting obliterated often. You do realize that unprotected enemies are still shooting at you the entire time, right?

Engineer (and an aggro CQC shotgun Engineer at that) was actually the one class with which I beat the game on Insanity without dying once, in large part due to Cryo Blast (although, tbh, Combat Drone was the real savior).

The idea that you can just remove every enemy's defense and then shoot them dead on Insanity seems to be people's undoing here. You even admitted you die often, and I can see why. The people that find Throw/Pull/Cryo-blast/etc useless because it doesn't work on protected enemies can't possibly do well on Insanity with all the heat they're taking 24/7, can you? CC is a huuuuge part of success on the higher difficulties, especially with classes like the Engineer and Adept.

Now on an unrelated note I do agree with you in that, while the Vanguard had the coolest class exclusive power, it was the most lacking class of all when it came to the rest of its powers. Hopefully its new ME3 exclusive power changes that. *Fingers crossed.

Cryo Ammo doesn't even work on the most annoying enemies in the game: the husks with Armor for their base health and shoot out shockwaves, Harbinger controlled Collectors, and the floating things that shoot out lasers.

Then there's the fact that even Incinerate doesn't do that much damage to Armor when it is supposed to get a damage boost.  I do more damage with an SMG and Incendiary Ammo, and SMGs take a damage hit when dealing with Armor.


Also, with the Claymore + "quick reload" + Charge, Vanguard can take out a single enemy quicker than any other method I have seen.

And the reason I died so much is because I don't have the reflexes necessary to get myself out of certain situations, especially when there's so much happening at once.  Then there's the fact I have almost no patience and it takes too long to regenerate health and shields.  There's nothing I can do about that and it holds me back so much.

Yes, I suck, I know I suck without having jerks like you pointing it out, especially when you have no clue how I play.  Congratulations for being insulting, go to hell.

SirBlakhawk wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding that
they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you
can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does
blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened
out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances
for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun
. Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a
waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it
for the visual effects though.

Yeah, well, this 'stagger' doesn't last long enough for me to exploit it.  Therefore, it's useless to me.

[Homebound]

biotics r lol in insanity. the enemy laughs at you and tells you to be ashamed of yourself for even using a pull or a throw.

[Shepard the Leper]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Cryo Ammo doesn't even work on the most annoying enemies in the game: the husks with Armor for their base health and shoot out shockwaves, Harbinger controlled Collectors, and the floating things that shoot out lasers.

Cryo Ammo makes husk a joke on Insanity. Slap it on your heavy pistol and they'll die like flies. It's by far the best ammo power against husks.

Then there's the fact that even Incinerate doesn't do that much damage to Armor when it is supposed to get a damage boost.  I do more damage with an SMG and Incendiary Ammo, and SMGs take a damage hit when dealing with Armor.

Incinerate can easily one-shot enemy armor bars; SMGs are crap against armor and ammo powers are not going to change that. Heavy pistols, without ammo power, will destroy armor a lot quicker.

Also, with the Claymore + "quick reload" + Charge, Vanguard can take out a single enemy quicker than any other method I have seen.

Also not true. If you've watched the first part of www.youtube.com/watch you notice this Vanguard kills enemies before they can be Charged. Those so called "crap" powers, Pull and Shockwave, obliterate the enemy - much faster than Charge + Claymore can do. In this video www.youtube.com/watch, Kronner uses Slam to setup Warpbombs. It's the fastest suicide run I know about. Slam doesn't work on defenses yet it's a heck of a bonus power - used right.

Charge and the Claymore are a potent combination, but mixed with other abilities, the Vanguard becomes a more effective and enjoyable combatant (on Insanity).

[dreman9999]

RPGamer13 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

What a bold claim from someone who's only played Vanguard. Cryo-blast and Cryo-ammo are so useful - yes, even on Insanity - it's not even funny. So many people on these forums completely disregard powers that are only effective once protections are removed as useless and I've come to the conclusion that not a single one of you is even halfway decent at this game. There's just absolutely no way you can make it through Insanity with the mindset that all there is to the game is defense-stripping and damage-dealing without getting obliterated often. You do realize that unprotected enemies are still shooting at you the entire time, right?

Engineer (and an aggro CQC shotgun Engineer at that) was actually the one class with which I beat the game on Insanity without dying once, in large part due to Cryo Blast (although, tbh, Combat Drone was the real savior).

The idea that you can just remove every enemy's defense and then shoot them dead on Insanity seems to be people's undoing here. You even admitted you die often, and I can see why. The people that find Throw/Pull/Cryo-blast/etc useless because it doesn't work on protected enemies can't possibly do well on Insanity with all the heat they're taking 24/7, can you? CC is a huuuuge part of success on the higher difficulties, especially with classes like the Engineer and Adept.

Now on an unrelated note I do agree with you in that, while the Vanguard had the coolest class exclusive power, it was the most lacking class of all when it came to the rest of its powers. Hopefully its new ME3 exclusive power changes that. *Fingers crossed.

Cryo Ammo doesn't even work on the most annoying enemies in the game: the husks with Armor for their base health and shoot out shockwaves, Harbinger controlled Collectors, and the floating things that shoot out lasers.

Then there's the fact that even Incinerate doesn't do that much damage to Armor when it is supposed to get a damage boost.  I do more damage with an SMG and Incendiary Ammo, and SMGs take a damage hit when dealing with Armor.


Also, with the Claymore + "quick reload" + Charge, Vanguard can take out a single enemy quicker than any other method I have seen.

And the reason I died so much is because I don't have the reflexes necessary to get myself out of certain situations, especially when there's so much happening at once.  Then there's the fact I have almost no patience and it takes too long to regenerate health and shields.  There's nothing I can do about that and it holds me back so much.

Yes, I suck, I know I suck without having jerks like you pointing it out, especially when you have no clue how I play.  Congratulations for being insulting, go to hell.

SirBlakhawk wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding that
they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you
can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does
blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened
out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances
for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun
. Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a
waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it
for the visual effects though.

Yeah, well, this 'stagger' doesn't last long enough for me to exploit it.  Therefore, it's useless to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT0DNVowpts......About cryo ammo...just for you...
The Idea is....freeze them so they would fight back.

And you still not understanding stun. All combat powers effect targets with protection by staggering them. The target can't shot back for a while, thus people call it a stun effect.

[dreman9999]

RPGamer13 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

What a bold claim from someone who's only played Vanguard. Cryo-blast and Cryo-ammo are so useful - yes, even on Insanity - it's not even funny. So many people on these forums completely disregard powers that are only effective once protections are removed as useless and I've come to the conclusion that not a single one of you is even halfway decent at this game. There's just absolutely no way you can make it through Insanity with the mindset that all there is to the game is defense-stripping and damage-dealing without getting obliterated often. You do realize that unprotected enemies are still shooting at you the entire time, right?

Engineer (and an aggro CQC shotgun Engineer at that) was actually the one class with which I beat the game on Insanity without dying once, in large part due to Cryo Blast (although, tbh, Combat Drone was the real savior).

The idea that you can just remove every enemy's defense and then shoot them dead on Insanity seems to be people's undoing here. You even admitted you die often, and I can see why. The people that find Throw/Pull/Cryo-blast/etc useless because it doesn't work on protected enemies can't possibly do well on Insanity with all the heat they're taking 24/7, can you? CC is a huuuuge part of success on the higher difficulties, especially with classes like the Engineer and Adept.

Now on an unrelated note I do agree with you in that, while the Vanguard had the coolest class exclusive power, it was the most lacking class of all when it came to the rest of its powers. Hopefully its new ME3 exclusive power changes that. *Fingers crossed.

Cryo Ammo doesn't even work on the most annoying enemies in the game: the husks with Armor for their base health and shoot out shockwaves, Harbinger controlled Collectors, and the floating things that shoot out lasers.

Then there's the fact that even Incinerate doesn't do that much damage to Armor when it is supposed to get a damage boost.  I do more damage with an SMG and Incendiary Ammo, and SMGs take a damage hit when dealing with Armor.


Also, with the Claymore + "quick reload" + Charge, Vanguard can take out a single enemy quicker than any other method I have seen.

And the reason I died so much is because I don't have the reflexes necessary to get myself out of certain situations, especially when there's so much happening at once.  Then there's the fact I have almost no patience and it takes too long to regenerate health and shields.  There's nothing I can do about that and it holds me back so much.

Yes, I suck, I know I suck without having jerks like you pointing it out, especially when you have no clue how I play.  Congratulations for being insulting, go to hell.

SirBlakhawk wrote...

I think you're misunderstanding that
they mean that you literally aren't allowed to use pull/throw but you
can with shockwave etc. So not all powers stun enemies. It actually does
blocked you, it has the weird arrow sign or whatever and it's reddened
out. You're not allowed to select it, which is causing the grievances
for people.
Or freeze peeps and charging into them is as equally fun
. Only downside is enemies are usually 5% health remaining so it's a
waste of charge and a bad idea from efficiency standpoint. I still do it
for the visual effects though.

Yeah, well, this 'stagger' doesn't last long enough for me to exploit it.  Therefore, it's useless to me.

Learn to exploit it. You do know how to quick aim? Pressing the aim button lock you on to enemies, so.......what's the problem?

[lazuli]

SirBlakhawk wrote...

Well for me it wasn't reduced effectiveness. You could press on it but nothing would happen.

You're mistaken, or not recalling the game correctly.  Red powers can still be used.  Using red Pull on a shielded foe will often result in a momentary stagger, though of course the enemy will not sail through the air.  Using red Overload on an unshielded organic enemy will likely cause that enemy's weapon to overheat, though no damage will be dealt.

[crimzontearz]

ok here is the problem

number one

people need to stop quoting the upgrade systems and their descriptions. Yes, People get that Bioware "explained" certain things and how protections are designed to stop power use BUT...it was done that way not because it was the next universally logical step but because the devs wanted defenses to work that way thus they simply wrote upgrades' descriptions to match their desire.

Same with thermal clips really

no one is questioning (now) whether or not, lore wise, this is plausible because the same devs who chose the combat mechanics wrote the lore.

Now, number 2, people are upset because the change of playstyle and how it affects their "feel" of the adept or pretty much any power. People on the other side argue that all powers ALWAYS work just with a reduced effect.

That...is...False.

why? simple, because what is the effect of "throw"? or "pull"? The effect of those powers is to knock someone off their feet and off ledges or pull them up floating in the air so you can pick them off. If you use throw or pull against an armored enemy NONE of that happens. They stagger back just once and keep going and their defense take a tiny dent into them. That is NOT reduced effect. Reduced effect would be like when you use pull on a really heavy enemy and it only lifts them for a couple of seconds instead of 5+

Hacking, Neural Shock, Dominate...all of them have no "reduced effects"...they just take a dent into someone's defenses and thus, really, they are not working...they are just doing what proper defense stripping power does...only less. If they ACTUALLY had reduced effectiveness but still did what they are supposed to do I'd not have a problem, or least not as big of a problem, with it all

I have already expressed how I believe defenses should work in order to keep up appearances while still adding some "immunities" here and there without turning insanity in a strip fest

[dreman9999]

crimzontearz wrote...

ok here is the problem

number one

people need to stop quoting the upgrade systems and their descriptions. Yes, People get that Bioware "explained" certain things and how protections are designed to stop power use BUT...it was done that way not because it was the next universally logical step but because the devs wanted defenses to work that way thus they simply wrote upgrades' descriptions to match their desire.

Same with thermal clips really

no one is questioning (now) whether or not, lore wise, this is plausible because the same devs who chose the combat mechanics wrote the lore.

Now, number 2, people are upset because the change of playstyle and how it affects their "feel" of the adept or pretty much any power. People on the other side argue that all powers ALWAYS work just with a reduced effect.

That...is...False.

why? simple, because what is the effect of "throw"? or "pull"? The effect of those powers is to knock someone off their feet and off ledges or pull them up floating in the air so you can pick them off. If you use throw or pull against an armored enemy NONE of that happens. They stagger back just once and keep going and their defense take a tiny dent into them. That is NOT reduced effect. Reduced effect would be like when you use pull on a really heavy enemy and it only lifts them for a couple of seconds instead of 5+

Hacking, Neural Shock, Dominate...all of them have no "reduced effects"...they just take a dent into someone's defenses and thus, really, they are not working...they are just doing what proper defense stripping power does...only less. If they ACTUALLY had reduced effectiveness but still did what they are supposed to do I'd not have a problem, or least not as big of a problem, with it all

I have already expressed how I believe defenses should work in order to keep up appearances while still adding some "immunities" here and there without turning insanity in a strip fest

And that satgger is an effect of the attack powers on defence.....Just not the full effect. The problem most people seem to forget is how overpowered biotics where in ME1. Lift and throw took out hordes of groups alown. And the general system did not work in ME1 ether. Putting up the difficulty did not make the game harder for adept, just that it took longer to kill the targets. ME2 when the difficuly increases adds immunity for all enemies that you have to work on to take off. Thus you needed to plan to take them out.
The stagger effect is just a shorter, easier recoverable version of the ideal the power have, to put the enemy in a vunerable state to be attacked.
And Hacking, Neural Shock and Dominate are not attack powers, just effect powers.

[dreman9999]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

RPGamer13 wrote...

Cryo Ammo doesn't even work on the most annoying enemies in the game: the husks with Armor for their base health and shoot out shockwaves, Harbinger controlled Collectors, and the floating things that shoot out lasers.

Cryo Ammo makes husk a joke on Insanity. Slap it on your heavy pistol and they'll die like flies. It's by far the best ammo power against husks.

Then there's the fact that even Incinerate doesn't do that much damage to Armor when it is supposed to get a damage boost.  I do more damage with an SMG and Incendiary Ammo, and SMGs take a damage hit when dealing with Armor.

Incinerate can easily one-shot enemy armor bars; SMGs are crap against armor and ammo powers are not going to change that. Heavy pistols, without ammo power, will destroy armor a lot quicker.

Also, with the Claymore + "quick reload" + Charge, Vanguard can take out a single enemy quicker than any other method I have seen.

Also not true. If you've watched the first part of www.youtube.com/watch you notice this Vanguard kills enemies before they can be Charged. Those so called "crap" powers, Pull and Shockwave, obliterate the enemy - much faster than Charge + Claymore can do. In this video www.youtube.com/watch, Kronner uses Slam to setup Warpbombs. It's the fastest suicide run I know about. Slam doesn't work on defenses yet it's a heck of a bonus power - used right.

Charge and the Claymore are a potent combination, but mixed with other abilities, the Vanguard becomes a more effective and enjoyable combatant (on Insanity).

.....You need to charge into them.....with a shotgun in hand. With a very powerful shot gun..(Claymore.)It's an instant kill on the weaker enemies....Also,learn how to melee with Vanguards.

[crimzontearz]

not the point. the point is that a "stagger" is not a reduced "floating" effect..it is just a stagger.....I'd understand Shockwave working that way, but not pull and throw really. a reduced effect would be being pulled up for a couple of seconds...not just a stagger. Regardless......we will see what the devs do.

Also, that "immunity" works only for vertain classes...to a soldier-for instance- it's just a matter of how many more bullets you have to pump into them and with what mod