160 réponses à ce sujet

[Sashimi_taco]

F00lishG wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

F00lishG wrote...

Dominate needs a nerf. It's stated that mind control affects cognitive functions in Mass Effect. Dominate should just turn enemies into slow moving meat shields who can't fire a weapon. That I'm down with in ME3

If you don't like it, don't use it. I don't understand why people want to nerf powers. it isn't like this is an MMO where we can use these powers on eachother.  I want to kill people with awesome powers!

Don't annoy me Tacoman. I'll say whatever I want that has logic.

It is Miss Taco Lady to you, Mr. 

[JPfanner]

Mass effect fields allowing phasing through solid matter isn't out of what was established in ME1. The Conduit on Ilos was underground and the other end was inside the Citadel.

Admittedly, that example involves the mass effect field created by mass relays and those aren't fully understood by any of the current races. Then again you can say that biotics aren't fully understood either so Vanguards somehow intuitively duplicating the phasing field effect of mass relays isn't too far out there. But yes, ultimately Vanguard phasing is a gameplay/engine artifact.

Dominate and Reave though are definitely gameplay focused powers and probably polarizing. You either like them for what they add to killin' stuff or try to ignore them for what they detract from the consistency of the setting.

I don't see why they both wouldn't be in ME3 really given that they were put into ME2 to begin with. Dominate is just AI hacking with a couple of variables changed and they've already got Reave coded for the engine and are using the whole siphoning life energy spiel with that one type of husk.

[tjzsf]

Why do some of you seem to think that the fact we don't have biotics in real life means that Reave/Dominate make sense/"is realistic" for the setting of Mass Effect?

Biotics from the very beginning is "personal manipulation of mass effect fields." Mind control or life drain is most certainly not that.

Just because a fictional universe has telekinetics doesn't mean it also has telepathy (or rather, universal telepathy since asari have a limited version when they have sex with someone) or vampires.

[Sashimi_taco]

tjzsf wrote...

Just because a fictional universe has telekinetics doesn't mean it also has telepathy (or rather, universal telepathy since asari have a limited version when they have sex with someone) or vampires.

Morinth is supposed to be a vampire. There are vampires in Mass Effect, Morinth is one. 

[shenlonzero]

i can see it being in the 360 version.

[SandTrout]

F00lishG wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

If you don't like it, don't use it. I don't understand why people want to nerf powers. it isn't like this is an MMO where we can use these powers on eachother.  I want to kill people with awesome powers!

Don't annoy me Tacoman. I'll say whatever I want that has logic.

Except that what you say can affect other players that disagree with you, and while Taco suggested a reasonable solution for youself without affecting other people enjoy, you feel the need to impose your will on eveyone else needlessly.

I personally never use Dominate, but I'm not going to scream around the forums to nerf it because other people find it exceptionally useful.

[marshalleck]

SandTrout wrote...

F00lishG wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

If you don't like it, don't use it. I don't understand why people want to nerf powers. it isn't like this is an MMO where we can use these powers on eachother.  I want to kill people with awesome powers!

Don't annoy me Tacoman. I'll say whatever I want that has logic.

Except that what you say can affect other players that disagree with you, and while Taco suggested a reasonable solution for youself without affecting other people enjoy, you feel the need to impose your will on eveyone else needlessly.

I personally never use Dominate, but I'm not going to scream around the forums to nerf it because other people find it exceptionally useful.

 F00lishG cast Dominate on this thread.

Modifié par marshalleck, 06 août 2011 - 04:19 .

[Kakistos_]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gods I hope not. We don't need any magical powers in ME3. The same goes for Reave. I've used it often in my Insanity playthroughs, but the sheer ridiculousless of the concept makes me wince every single time. Fantasy magic begone from the Mass Effect universe!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dominate and Reave have absolutely NO place in the ME Universe. The truth about Powers in ME2 was that they were gimped in favor of guns and many powers, these two imparticular, were just given to function as exrtra little toys to play with. If the series is to improve and move past this then the abominations that are Reave and Dominate must be forgotten. And I created a thread about Retcons...

[Jiso]

If you read the codex under human biotics, you would find this
'Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds)'
Soooo... based off that it seems dominate wouldnt have a place in the ME world.
However that said i do enjoy using the power lol

[The Spamming Troll]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gods I hope not. We don't need any magical powers in ME3. The same goes for Reave. I've used it often in my Insanity playthroughs, but the sheer ridiculousless of the concept makes me wince every single time. Fantasy magic begone from the Mass Effect universe!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dominate and Reave have absolutely NO place in the ME Universe. The truth about Powers in ME2 was that they were gimped in favor of guns and many powers, these two imparticular, were just given to function as exrtra little toys to play with. If the series is to improve and move past this then the abominations that are Reave and Dominate must be forgotten. And I created a thread about Retcons...

ME2 set the standard for ilogical implementations pretty well. i dont think ME3 is gonig to cut out the dumb from ME2. i think its only going to get dumber.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 06 août 2011 - 02:55 .

[littlezack]

 I just assumed that Dominate was an extension of Morinth's ability to influence minds. She's very clearly capable of manipulating people at a distance; she does it to Shepard (or at least tries),and Asari are known for their ability to control nerve impulses. It's really not that big of a stretch, especially for a unique and powerful Asari like Morinth.

[littlezack]

Jiso wrote...

If you read the codex under human biotics, you would find this
'Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds)'
Soooo... based off that it seems dominate wouldnt have a place in the ME world.
However that said i do enjoy using the power lol

The key word is 'human'. Which Morinth ain't.

[Ghost Warrior]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gods I hope not. We don't need any magical powers in ME3. The same goes for Reave. I've used it often in my Insanity playthroughs, but the sheer ridiculousless of the concept makes me wince every single time. Fantasy magic begone from the Mass Effect universe!

*cough* dominate,reave,warp ammo,adrenaline rush,energy drain,charge *cough*

[The Spamming Troll]

i think charging THROUGH obstacles is really far fetched.

mind control doesnt fit into sci fi????

[Ace of Dawn]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think charging THROUGH obstacles is really far fetched.

mind control doesnt fit into sci fi????

I thought so too, until I kind of realized that the Conduit did it, and the Mass Relays have to do it, too. Sure, space is empty, but it's huge. There is always a chance you could run into something, especially other ships using the same relay.

[Ieldra]

Tigerblood and MilkShakes wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Gods I hope not. We don't need any magical powers in ME3. The same goes for Reave. I've used it often in my Insanity playthroughs, but the sheer ridiculousless of the concept makes me wince every single time. Fantasy magic begone from the Mass Effect universe!

Then waht about Push,pull,shockwave,charge and singularity.....magic too?

I want the powers to be consistent with the universe's own lore, instead of things being added just because they are "cool" without thinking of whether they fit into the universe.

That's why I think there should be no biotic powers that can't be explained by "telekinesis", mass and gravity manipulation. Pull, throw and slam are obviously OK, Warp needs a little mental twist to fit but it works - basically you create a cloud of micro-singularities that rip things apart by tidal forces. Singularity is theoretically OK but is wouldn't work as it does - a small singulary wouldn't make people fly but rip them to shreds instead, and a large one would have to have to mass of a planet to work as it does. Charge works by affecting your own mass, basically turning you into a projectile. Shockwave can be rationalized as being similar to Warp.

Reave, however, is some sort of "lifestealing". That's (a) a thoroughly unscientific concept that ( is familiar in fantasy universes and © doesn't fit the lore in any remote way whatsoever. It is alien to the genre *and* not rationalizeable within the existing premises of the ME universe. "Dominate" as an (a) *instant* mind-controlling power that ( works at a distance belongs in the same category. Morinth is possibly able to manipulate your brain, but NOT as an instant effect in combat. One thing SF universes have in common with the real world is that both life and will are not simple energetic concepts that can be shaped into any form by simple devices or actions. And don't quote Star Wars at me, that's fantasy in space, not science fiction.

BTW, "it is fiction" is often used as an excuse for "anything goes". That's not so. There are genre conventions and limits of plausibility you cross at your peril. Science fiction can introduce hilariously "unrealistic" stuff, as long as it preserves a basic stance of "There is no magic, only technology". ME skirts these limits with the asari, which is one reason why I dislike them, but at least some effort is made to conform to the basic premise - see the entry about Thessia on the ME3 site, and the asari mind-meld requires touch AND time, makes it about 500% less ridiculous than the Dominate power.

Ah, and BTW: biotic powers that don't create any mass should travel at lightspeed and in a straight line.

 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2011 - 05:36 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Reave, however, is some sort of "lifestealing". That's (a) a thoroughly unscientific concept that ( is familiar in fantasy universes and © doesn't fit the lore in any remote way whatsoever. It is alien to the genre *and* not rationalizeable within the existing premises of the ME universe. "Dominate" as an (a) *instant* mind-controlling power that ( works at a distance belongs in the same category. Morinth is possibly able to manipulate your brain, but NOT as an instant effect in combat. One thing SF universes have in common with the real world is that both life and will are not simple energetic concepts that can be shaped into any form by simple devices or actions. And don't quote Star Wars at me, that's fantasy in space, not science fiction.

It's not instant. Ever use it? The subject clearly attempts to resist it falls to the ground, then stands back up to attack.

Really, Reave and Dominate are just extreme versions of asari are capable of doing. Shepard's ability to use them wouldn't really be considered "realistic".

[Ieldra]

How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

[Jiso]

littlezack wrote...

Jiso wrote...

If you read the codex under human biotics, you would find this
'Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds)'
Soooo... based off that it seems dominate wouldnt have a place in the ME world.
However that said i do enjoy using the power lol

The key word is 'human'. Which Morinth ain't.

Yes but shepard is.

[Someone With Mass]

So something being alien in Mass Effect, a science-fiction game, is a bad thing now?

[Sashimi_taco]

If you don't like the power, don't use it. Why does this offend people so much? I don't understand.

[Ieldra]

Someone With Mass wrote...
So something being alien in Mass Effect, a science-fiction game, is a bad thing now?

I said "alien to the genre". If present, powers like Dominate or Reave should be restricted to species that have "superscience" as it would appear from within the ME timeline. In fact, Dominate and Reave are worse offenders even than the Reapers' indoctrination. Indoctrination and Zombie-Saren have explanations that work under a scientific premise. We cannot explain indoctrination yet, but there are elements we have identified and it seems plausible that we'll be able to explain and even reproduce it one day. That, and biotics, are Magic from technology, Dominate and Reave are just magic. 

@Sashimi_Taco:
It is not using the power that's annoying. It's its presence in the universe. It's not a gameplay problem, it is a worldbuilding problem. It compromises the ME universe's identity as an SF universe (see above and my previous posts for the explanation.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2011 - 06:04 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

Doesn't Morinth do that, being an Ardat-Yahkshi?

[Ieldra]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

Doesn't Morinth do that, being an Ardat-Yahkshi?

"Ardat-Yakshi just do that" is no explanation. Explain the lifestealing effect to me in terms that don't sound like magic, that are grounded in the scientific premises at work in the ME universe. Basically, the ME universe has introduced only one element of technological magic: everything that's based on eezo. Bioware has extended "Eezo did it" quite far, but there must be a limit or things will just appear silly. If worldbuilders refuse to be bound by the limits of what they have established themselves it will result in worlds that have lost all coherence and identity. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2011 - 06:09 .