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[The Elder King]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

Doesn't Morinth do that, being an Ardat-Yahkshi?

Even if she could use it in battle (and I'm not sure if this should be possible), Shepard shouldn't use it as a bonus power.

Modifié par hhh89, 06 août 2011 - 06:06 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

Doesn't Morinth do that, being an Ardat-Yahkshi?

She overloads enemy's nervous system,and for one she touches her victim.

[Ace of Dawn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
How do you explain the "lifestealing" effect of Reave? Really, that's the absolutely worst offender in terms of being alien to the ME universe.

Doesn't Morinth do that, being an Ardat-Yahkshi?

"Ardat-Yakshi just do that" is no explanation. Explain the lifestealing effect to me in terms that don't sound like magic, that are grounded in the scientific premises at work in the ME universe. Basically, the ME universe has introduced only one element of technological magic: everything that's based on eezo. Bioware has extended "Eezo did it" quite far, but there must be a limit or things will just appear silly. If worldbuilders refuse to be bound by the limits of what they have established themselves it will result in worlds that have lost all coherence and identity. 

While I can certainly see your point, the fact is that in universe, Ardat-Yahkshi exist.

All I can really say is Clarke's 3rd Law.

But I will concede to your point, it is farfetched in regards to a lot of things. I just wrote it off as gameplay and story segregation.

[Someone With Mass]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I said "alien to the genre". If present, powers like Dominate or Reave should be restricted to species that have "superscience" as it would appear from within the ME timeline. In fact, Dominate and Reave are worse offenders even than the Reapers' indoctrination. Indoctrination and Zombie-Saren have explanations that work under a scientific premise. We cannot explain indoctrination yet, but there are elements we have identified and it seems plausible that we'll be able to explain and even reproduce it one day. That, and biotics, are Magic from technology, Dominate and Reave are just magic. 

Then why can't it simply be an area behind the technology we haven't discovered or mastered yet, just like indoctrination?

[Sylvanpyxie]

Can, i just ask...

Isn't Reave *Samara's* bonus power? *Not* Morinth's?

[Ghost Warrior]

Ieldra2 is definitely right,powers like Reave and Dominate make absolutely no sense. But thing is that a lot of powers in ME2 don't. And we are likely to see even more of those in ME3.

[Sylvanpyxie]

You are correct. <-

Right. So. Why is Ardat-Yakshi an excuse for it, since Samara is clearly *not* an Ardat-Yakshi?
Infact why is Ardat-Yakshi even being mentioned in reference to Reave, for the same reason.

I understand this is all about Dominate but i saw Reave come up a few times and i'm proper confused by the reasoning.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 06 août 2011 - 06:27 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

You are correct. <-

Right. So. Why is Ardat-Yakshi an excuse for it, since Samara is clearly *not* an Ardat-Yakshi?
Infact why is Ardat-Yakshi even being mentioned in reference to Reave, for the same reason.

I brought it up since on paper, the ideas would be the same. In a way, I feel that Samara having reave makes little sense, since there is nothing to really suggest she should or would be capable of that ability. Morinth makes sense with either, I think.

But yeah, I jsut brought it up as a way of justifying it. And, well, she did mother 3 Ardat-Yahkshi, who's to say she can't be just as dangerous?

[littlezack]

Jiso wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Jiso wrote...

If you read the codex under human biotics, you would find this
'Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds)'
Soooo... based off that it seems dominate wouldnt have a place in the ME world.
However that said i do enjoy using the power lol

The key word is 'human'. Which Morinth ain't.

Yes but shepard is.

If you want to be that picky about it, Shepard shouldn't be able to use any biotic bonus power if he's not a biotic class.

For Dominate, I just stick to Morinth's ability to influence minds. Asari clearly have some ability to influence minds and control the nerve impulses of others, and given that both Morinth and Samara are exceptionally old and powerful, it doesn't surprise me that they've mastered incredibly powerful techniques. And while I appreciate that people are so...enthusiastic about such things, I do feel that people do themselves a disservice by being so wrapped up in the Codex that they need an explanation for EVERYTHING before they can enjoy it.

[Sylvanpyxie]

"I brought it up since on paper, the ideas would be the same. In a way, I feel that Samara having reave makes little sense"

Right, so, basically... You mentioned Ardat-Yakshi in connection to Reave, despite the fact it holds no real relevance to Samara as she isn't an Ardat-Yakshi?

Yet you agree it holds no real explained logic for Samara to be able to drain her enemy's life-force with Reave?

That might explain why i got confused. Right then. Carry on my good man/woman/child!

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 06 août 2011 - 06:36 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

I understand Samara gave birth to 3 Ardat-Yakshi.. But that in itself proves she isn't one.. Therefore there's no real relevance.

I'd like to point out i actually don't care much about the lore behind powers or what goes in game, as long as people don't start shooting fire out of their hands, i was just confused about the reasoning someone had thrown out connecting Reave and the Ardat-Yakshi.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 06 août 2011 - 06:40 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think charging THROUGH obstacles is really far fetched.

mind control doesnt fit into sci fi????

I thought so too, until I kind of realized that the Conduit did it, and the Mass Relays have to do it, too. Sure, space is empty, but it's huge. There is always a chance you could run into something, especially other ships using the same relay.

well, that was easy.

thats really all it takes for an explanation. just give me some direction to think "well i guess maybe its possible" and thats all id need. kindof like when were landing on horizon and mordins working on a suit to protect chep and crew from the swarms. she goes "what have you got?" and mordin just smiles, and then we land on horizon.

[Ace of Dawn]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Right, so, basically... You mentioned Ardat-Yakshi in connection to Reave, despite the fact it holds no real relevance to Samara as she isn't an Ardat-Yakshi?

Yet you agree it holds no real explained logic for Samara to be able to drain her enemy's life-force with Reave?

That might explain why i got confused. Right then. Carry on my good man/woman/child!

In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

In much the same way, Dominate is something Morinth is capable of doing in some way because she is capable of doing so (Liara was able to meld with you and "read your mind" in ME1, so dominate isn't *too* out there). Their long distance ability is sake for convenience, since realistically having the user be right next to the target would be next to impossible. And Shepard's usage of it is in line with a Soldier class using biotics, it's a bonus power, not a realistic one.

The powers themselves don't bug me so much as Samara herself having Reave. She's not an Ardat-Yakshi, and really has no reason to be capable of doing that.

Sorry for any previous, or further, confusion.

Also, man.

[Someone With Mass]

Energy Drain doesn't make much sense either.

It's more of a matter of the convenience of the gameplay. There will always be some power that goes against something in some game.

People just have to accept that there are some powers out there that simply exist to be replacements/improvements to other powers.

[Sashimi_taco]

Ace of Dawn wrote...


In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

Hu? Not me i love dominate. It makes sense lore wise to me, so w/e. 

[Ace of Dawn]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i think charging THROUGH obstacles is really far fetched.

mind control doesnt fit into sci fi????

I thought so too, until I kind of realized that the Conduit did it, and the Mass Relays have to do it, too. Sure, space is empty, but it's huge. There is always a chance you could run into something, especially other ships using the same relay.

well, that was easy.

thats really all it takes for an explanation. just give me some direction to think "well i guess maybe its possible" and thats all id need. kindof like when were landing on horizon and mordins working on a suit to protect chep and crew from the swarms. she goes "what have you got?" and mordin just smiles, and then we land on horizon.

Aye. I actually read the whole "conduit being able to do it" thing in the Fridge Logic section of Mass Effect on TV Tropes. Double-edged sword to read that page. You'll either come away being able to justify a lot of stuff that may bug you in the ME unvierse, or see bigger issues.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Excellent, with my confusion sorted i'd like to voice my opinion on the actual topic:

If we're going to speak on a technical level, all bonus powers are "lore breaking", not just Dominate and Reave. Since Shepard Him/Herself gets the pick of any of them, Lore is Broken.

I mean, it's well and good saying Dominate and Reave break lore, but a Soldier Shepard getting a Biotic ability breaks lore aswell.. Don't just single out the abilities that break lore. Take out the whole system while you're at it, because in the end, it's the whole system that breaks the lore.

And i'd like to restate - I have no problem with bonus powers. Game-play always takes the driver's seat, Lore takes shotgun.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 06 août 2011 - 06:49 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...


In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

Hu? Not me i love dominate. It makes sense lore wise to me, so w/e. 

So sorry! I couldn't remember for the life of me who started the conversation, or really how the topic started. So I just assumed. My mistake.

[Sashimi_taco]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...


In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

Hu? Not me i love dominate. It makes sense lore wise to me, so w/e. 

So sorry! I couldn't remember for the life of me who started the conversation, or really how the topic started. So I just assumed. My mistake.

Its okay!

[littlezack]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Right, so, basically... You mentioned Ardat-Yakshi in connection to Reave, despite the fact it holds no real relevance to Samara as she isn't an Ardat-Yakshi?

Yet you agree it holds no real explained logic for Samara to be able to drain her enemy's life-force with Reave?

That might explain why i got confused. Right then. Carry on my good man/woman/child!

In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

In much the same way, Dominate is something Morinth is capable of doing in some way because she is capable of doing so (Liara was able to meld with you and "read your mind" in ME1, so dominate isn't *too* out there). Their long distance ability is sake for convenience, since realistically having the user be right next to the target would be next to impossible. And Shepard's usage of it is in line with a Soldier class using biotics, it's a bonus power, not a realistic one.

The powers themselves don't bug me so much as Samara herself having Reave. She's not an Ardat-Yakshi, and really has no reason to be capable of doing that.

Well, here's how I see it - we know that Ardat-Yakshi's can't mate normally; the overpower the mate and kill them. We also know that normal Asari don't do that...but we don't know if it's because of simply being incapable or not. For instance, as I said, Samara is old and skill, and having three Ardat's as children undoubtedly means she knows quite a bit about them and how they work Is it impossible to accept that Samara could train herself to affect people in a similar way? Basically learning the defect.

I think it's an interesting thing to explore. The asari mind-meld thing isn't touched on too much.

[didymos1120]

Ghost Warrior wrote...

 But thing is that a lot of powers in ME2 don't..

They didn't all make sense in ME1 either.  Tell me: how in the @#$% does Immunity work?  I can kinda, sorta see it with krogan (maybe) but apparently everyone had access to it.  How 'about Marksman or Overkill?  What, I flipped a magic "don't generate so much heat" switch?  How exactly did damping affect biotics and tech powers simultaneously?  I guess they really are omni-tools.

[Ace of Dawn]

littlezack wrote...

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Right, so, basically... You mentioned Ardat-Yakshi in connection to Reave, despite the fact it holds no real relevance to Samara as she isn't an Ardat-Yakshi?

Yet you agree it holds no real explained logic for Samara to be able to drain her enemy's life-force with Reave?

That might explain why i got confused. Right then. Carry on my good man/woman/child!

In a way, yes. The issue is that the OP (I think) wants things deeply rooted with lore, while I am much more relaxed with it. I feel that Reave, as a power, makes sense because it's something Ardat-Yakshi are established to do.

In much the same way, Dominate is something Morinth is capable of doing in some way because she is capable of doing so (Liara was able to meld with you and "read your mind" in ME1, so dominate isn't *too* out there). Their long distance ability is sake for convenience, since realistically having the user be right next to the target would be next to impossible. And Shepard's usage of it is in line with a Soldier class using biotics, it's a bonus power, not a realistic one.

The powers themselves don't bug me so much as Samara herself having Reave. She's not an Ardat-Yakshi, and really has no reason to be capable of doing that.

Well, here's how I see it - we know that Ardat-Yakshi's can't mate normally; the overpower the mate and kill them. We also know that normal Asari don't do that...but we don't know if it's because of simply being incapable or not. For instance, as I said, Samara is old and skill, and having three Ardat's as children undoubtedly means she knows quite a bit about them and how they work Is it impossible to accept that Samara could train herself to affect people in a similar way? Basically learning the defect.

I think it's an interesting thing to explore. The asari mind-meld thing isn't touched on too much.

Certainly not impossible to accept. Since it's genetic, she may even have a "lighter" version of what they are doing. It just irked me a little because all the other bonus powers didn't really require you to wonder why they knew it. They were all simplistic in some way, then Samara comes in with Reave, and you're left wondering how...