29 réponses à ce sujet

[Meeszy Alexy]

 Why do you fangirl/fanboy (there's always fanboys) over him?

Just out of curiosity. When I romanced him, he just came across as rather needy and obsessive, so he kinda scared me.

I'm happy to hear your opinions on this. I'm not looking for an argument just because I prefer Fenris over Anders... I really want to know why he's so loved.

[Delanish]

I think Anders is an ass My favorite Ander's Moment was in awakening when Oghren Schooled him

Anders "Hark!!, Let me tell you about my life in one word *BURP*
Oghren: Oh nos! don't lock me up in the tower I'm far far to delicate
Anders: I'm not only a Dwarf, I'm a Moron!
Oghren: Oh no big Templar man what are you going to do with that sord!
Anders: Ewww...
Oghren: Don't play with fire unless you wanna get Burned Son!

Honestly if i could i Romance Varric

Modifié par Delanish, 06 août 2011 - 12:13 .

[leggywillow]

Because he is a fascinating and tragic character who is pivotal to the main plot of the game.

Very, very few people fangirl/fanboy out over Anders the same way a lot of other characters' fans do.  He is very cute, yes, but everyone in the Anders thread pretty much admits that he is completely crazy, clingy, and hypocritical and that his romance is by no means a healthy one.  But it is interesting.  "Tragic and fascinating" are the best words I can think of to describe it.  Romeo & Juliet is an extremely popular play that interests a lot of people, but few of them actually see it as romantic (well, few of the ones who actually think about it, anyway).  What works in real life is pretty damn boring in fiction.

For me, it mostly boils down to his importance to the plot.  It's the same reason why I prefer Alistair and Morrigan as LIs in Origins.  Fenris just makes me rage because he's so damn useless to the story.  He just sits there, being entirely useless and doing nothing to move the plot forward. 

[Meeszy Alexy]

leggywillow wrote...

Because he is a fascinating and tragic character who is pivotal to the main plot of the game.

Very, very few people fangirl/fanboy out over Anders the same way a lot of other characters' fans do.  He is very cute, yes, but everyone in the Anders thread pretty much admits that he is completely crazy, clingy, and hypocritical and that his romance is by no means a healthy one.  But it is interesting.  "Tragic and fascinating" are the best words I can think of to describe it.  Romeo & Juliet is an extremely popular play that interests a lot of people, but few of them actually see it as romantic (well, few of the ones who actually think about it, anyway).  What works in real life is pretty damn boring in fiction.

For me, it mostly boils down to his importance to the plot.  It's the same reason why I prefer Alistair and Morrigan as LIs in Origins.  Fenris just makes me rage because he's so damn useless to the story.  He just sits there, being entirely useless and doing nothing to move the plot forward. 

I know exactly what you mean. I see now. One of the things that I don't like about DA2 is that Fenris doesn't do anything. I think he's a really interesting character, and I like him, but I feel his potential was wasted. I would've liked it if he had more involvement with the plot. Just because he's an optional character doesn't mean he can't - look at Isabela, she stole the relic and indirectly caused not one, but two big wars.(Aka Qunari vs Kirkwall and Templars vs Mages)

...going off-topic again.

Anyway, I think what you say about Anders is actually rather interesting. I'm going to think on it a little more and come up with a better reply.

[SurelyForth]

Yeah, it's different with Anders. The Anders Fan collective are definitely not just in it for the breathless romance of it all.

I like Anders because I understand where he's coming from and why he would do what he did (both merging with Justice and blowing up the Chantry). I've always seen him as a flawed but compassionate individual who just wanted the chance to be who he was and not be condemned for it. I mean...isn't that the dream? To exist on our own terms and have the chance to live a normal life as long as we're not hurting anyone else? Yet something so simple as that was taken away from him, over and over and over again, and no amount of healing people, or saving people, or fighting alongside the Hero of Ferelden made any difference to how he was viewed: He's a danger. The end.

By allowing Justice in, he basically sacrifices his individuality and his personhood to achieve a world where he could have stayed with his mother once his magic was discovered, where he could grow up and maybe marry and have children or a ton of cats and not have to worry about his safety, or his partner's safety, or his children/cats' safety because magic alone would not be enough to condemn and imprison someone. He probably won't get that, of course. But someone will. And that's worth it to him. 

But it backfires, and he tries to make it work. He dedicates his life to healing the poor and fighting for mages' rights. He sets aside his own personal desires for three years before he gives into his love for Hawke, and despite how obsessive and sappy he is once they're together, he is brutally honest about himself and how things are going to work out (or not) for them.

I find that struggle and that whole "this is so doomed" thing compelling. I liked figuring out what kind of Hawke could deal with that really, and the toll it would take. I love his passion, and how he clings to his beliefs even when they're breaking him and how he's willing to give up everything because he will never be able to fully enjoy his personal freedom and happiness as long as mages are kept locked up and treated like empty vessels just waiting to be filled with demons rather than people.

Beyond that...I don't know. His story just makes me feel things like crazy and I think it's awesome when fiction makes me feel things. /rambling

Modifié par SurelyForth, 06 août 2011 - 12:37 .

[Knight of Dane]

I play the game mostly out of a roleplaying viewpoint and i can see any Hakw falling in love with him for a couple of reasons:

As a mage Hawke might connect with him (my only Jandersmance is with a mage btw)
As anything else Hawke might feel something for him left over from Bethany's departure, though i think Merrill fits this scenario better,
Anders is open to Hawke to begin with and spills his feelings on him/her, this can be endearing depending on your characters personality.
Later Anders looses himself and a caring Hawke might want to resque himn from his suicidal fate.

He's as valid as ny other, but i am not talking as a fanboy, only about 15% of the playthroughs i play Anders lives past the bomb, only one is a romance.

[LT123]

leggywillow wrote...

Because he is a fascinating and tragic character who is pivotal to the main plot of the game.

Very, very few people fangirl/fanboy out over Anders the same way a lot of other characters' fans do.  He is very cute, yes, but everyone in the Anders thread pretty much admits that he is completely crazy, clingy, and hypocritical and that his romance is by no means a healthy one.  But it is interesting.  "Tragic and fascinating" are the best words I can think of to describe it.  Romeo & Juliet is an extremely popular play that interests a lot of people, but few of them actually see it as romantic (well, few of the ones who actually think about it, anyway).  What works in real life is pretty damn boring in fiction.

For me, it mostly boils down to his importance to the plot.  It's the same reason why I prefer Alistair and Morrigan as LIs in Origins.  Fenris just makes me rage because he's so damn useless to the story.  He just sits there, being entirely useless and doing nothing to move the plot forward. 

This. I love Fenris' voice and appreciate his role as a foil to Anders and a source of information about Tevinter, but he's just not important to the plot.

Frankly, he's also easy to miss. If Hawke doesn't want to get involved in a deal that sounds a whole lot like lyrium smuggling, you can miss him entirely. At least in Origins, you had to deliberately choose to not pick an optional companions (unless you didn't go in the tavern in Lothering. The "Talk to the elf first" dialogue option is pretty obvious for Zevran, and Sten is a) a guy sitting in a cage and starts chanting in Qunari as you wander by).

Anders is also fascinating because you get to see both he and Justice as they were originally in Awakening and now who Anders is after they merge.

Edit: And tragedies can be fun, in a weird sort of way. Anders is blunt right off about how it's not going to end well, at least if you play as a female Hawke.

Modifié par LT123, 06 août 2011 - 12:42 .

[Masako52]

I like both Fenris and Anders. And Merrill, and Isabela. But as for Anders, I think his character is brilliant. I love how he evolves from Awakening to DA2. Actually, despite being a strong guy, he seemed really vulnerable. For example, he says he wants to prove to Fenris that he's strong after Fenris insults him, like he needs to prove himself to others. He seems really anxious and on edge and wants reassurance.

I can see how that'd bother people, but I just wanna give him a hug. I think he's been through some serious crap and doesn't have enough of a backbone to face most of the things in his life. I feel like some heavy therapy would have done him really good. I feel a lot of sympathy for him, and think he's a really tragic character. I'm a sucker for tragic characters.

[Sinaxi]

SurelyForth wrote...

Yeah, it's different with Anders. The Anders Fan collective are definitely not just in it for the breathless romance of it all.

I like Anders because I understand where he's coming from and why he would do what he did (both merging with Justice and blowing up the Chantry). I've always seen him as a flawed but compassionate individual who just wanted the chance to be who he was and not be condemned for it. I mean...isn't that the dream? To exist on our own terms and have the chance to live a normal life as long as we're not hurting anyone else? Yet something so simple as that was taken away from him, over and over and over again, and no amount of healing people, or saving people, or fighting alongside the Hero of Ferelden made any difference to how he was viewed: He's a danger. The end.

By allowing Justice in, he basically sacrifices his individuality and his personhood to achieve a world where he could have stayed with his mother once his magic was discovered, where he could grow up and maybe marry and have children or a ton of cats and not have to worry about his safety, or his partner's safety, or his children/cats' safety because magic alone would not be enough to condemn and imprison someone. He probably won't get that, of course. But someone will. And that's worth it to him. 

But it backfires, and he tries to make it work. He dedicates his life to healing the poor and fighting for mages' rights. He sets aside his own personal desires for three years before he gives into his love for Hawke, and despite how obsessive and sappy he is once they're together, he is brutally honest about himself and how things are going to work out (or not) for them.

I find that struggle and that whole "this is so doomed" thing compelling. I liked figuring out what kind of Hawke could deal with that really, and the toll it would take. I love his passion, and how he clings to his beliefs even when they're breaking him and how he's willing to give up everything because he will never be able to fully enjoy his personal freedom and happiness as long as mages are kept locked up and treated like empty vessels just waiting to be filled with demons rather than people.

Beyond that...I don't know. His story just makes me feel things like crazy and I think it's awesome when fiction makes me feel things. /rambling

Have I mentioned I ****ing love you?

I no longer need to reply to this thread. Except to just requote this.

[berelinde]

Leggywillow and Surely Forth state my feelings about the romance far too eloquently to justify retyping what they already said. About the only thing I can add to it is to compare it to watching a beloved tragic movie. You know how it ends. You've seen this movie before. You ache inside as it winds down to its inevitable conclusion, and maybe you'll cry. Again. It's cathartic, I guess.

[nitefyre410]

Me well I like him becasue  he reminds of one of   favoriate all time  Characters  ever Magento... A man that  has layers  that it makes no sense.    Espically a  young  Erik  - though Anders is not as angry  or as  fill with disgust for the Templar as   Erik had  and still has for humans in his younger(age has tempered him)   Anders at  his  core is a good  man.  

Fenris  the same thing I draw a  lot of comparison between him and Wolverine.   Willing  got the Lyruim  brands to insure safety for his sister thus making him a living weapon but lost his memories.   Logan sign up for Weapon X getting the adimantuim grafting procedure done  having his memories wiped  and thuse becoming  a nigh perfect weapon.  Both have  ALOT of anger to deal with.

So I like both Characters greatly and hate to see either bashed.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 06 août 2011 - 01:35 .

[FieryDove]

^ All of the above posts + He glows.

[Gervaise]

Like the OP I find Anders very difficult to romance.  I am on my 4th playthrough and I am still struggling to find a reason to romance him beyond midway through Act 2.  Yes, I want to help him as a friend, can share his views of mage freedom, etc, but I just can't find a good enough reason why I would want to risk continuing a romance with him as much as anything else, bearing in mind you only get to move things on to a physical level after he loses it and nearly kills that mage girl.  My other disappointment is that from posts it is clear you only find out certain stuff with him if you do romance him.  In fact you only find out certain stuff if you are a certain gender.  (mind you that is also true of Fenris). 
I must admit after the first play through, the attraction of Fenris as a male LI is that you can actually change his attitude to at least some mages (if your Hawke is a mage), he will stick by you as a friend not just because you are his LI, if you opt to help the mages and ultimately you don't feel morally compromised if you head off into the sunset with him.
Anders from Awakening I loved and was really looking forward to a romance with him - Anders in DA2 I can like, feel sorry for, desperately want to help but I can't love.

[phantomdragoness]

Tidra wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Yeah, it's different with Anders. The Anders Fan collective are definitely not just in it for the breathless romance of it all.

I like Anders because I understand where he's coming from and why he would do what he did (both merging with Justice and blowing up the Chantry). I've always seen him as a flawed but compassionate individual who just wanted the chance to be who he was and not be condemned for it. I mean...isn't that the dream? To exist on our own terms and have the chance to live a normal life as long as we're not hurting anyone else? Yet something so simple as that was taken away from him, over and over and over again, and no amount of healing people, or saving people, or fighting alongside the Hero of Ferelden made any difference to how he was viewed: He's a danger. The end.

By allowing Justice in, he basically sacrifices his individuality and his personhood to achieve a world where he could have stayed with his mother once his magic was discovered, where he could grow up and maybe marry and have children or a ton of cats and not have to worry about his safety, or his partner's safety, or his children/cats' safety because magic alone would not be enough to condemn and imprison someone. He probably won't get that, of course. But someone will. And that's worth it to him. 

But it backfires, and he tries to make it work. He dedicates his life to healing the poor and fighting for mages' rights. He sets aside his own personal desires for three years before he gives into his love for Hawke, and despite how obsessive and sappy he is once they're together, he is brutally honest about himself and how things are going to work out (or not) for them.

I find that struggle and that whole "this is so doomed" thing compelling. I liked figuring out what kind of Hawke could deal with that really, and the toll it would take. I love his passion, and how he clings to his beliefs even when they're breaking him and how he's willing to give up everything because he will never be able to fully enjoy his personal freedom and happiness as long as mages are kept locked up and treated like empty vessels just waiting to be filled with demons rather than people.

Beyond that...I don't know. His story just makes me feel things like crazy and I think it's awesome when fiction makes me feel things. /rambling

Have I mentioned I ****ing love you?

I no longer need to reply to this thread. Except to just requote this.

Ditto! Took the words right out of my heart. XD

FieryDove wrote...

^ All of the above posts + He glows.

Glowing is VERY important. Especially with people who have ADD...must have the shiny.

[NamiraWilhelm]

His needyness didnt put me off, plenty of us are capable of that. Just depends on whether you feel able to deal with it and or the benefits of the relationship outway the bad.

The only bad point in my eyes is i find him a little manipulative, accusing me of not caring when there were clearly other points that were holding me back from aiding his cause. Then of course his horrific actions at the end.

But i still loves him. Hes caring, attractive, considerate, funny, a cat lover.. all those good things.

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 06 août 2011 - 12:33 .

[metalgirl-1]

Gervaise wrote...

Like the OP I find Anders very difficult to romance.  I am on my 4th playthrough and I am still struggling to find a reason to romance him beyond midway through Act 2.  Yes, I want to help him as a friend, can share his views of mage freedom, etc, but I just can't find a good enough reason why I would want to risk continuing a romance with him as much as anything else, bearing in mind you only get to move things on to a physical level after he loses it and nearly kills that mage girl.  My other disappointment is that from posts it is clear you only find out certain stuff with him if you do romance him.  In fact you only find out certain stuff if you are a certain gender.  (mind you that is also true of Fenris). 
I must admit after the first play through, the attraction of Fenris as a male LI is that you can actually change his attitude to at least some mages (if your Hawke is a mage), he will stick by you as a friend not just because you are his LI, if you opt to help the mages and ultimately you don't feel morally compromised if you head off into the sunset with him.
Anders from Awakening I loved and was really looking forward to a romance with him - Anders in DA2 I can like, feel sorry for, desperately want to help but I can't love.

Took the words right out of my mouth!! This is pretty much exactly what I think. I still haven't been able to finish a PT with Anders as LI. I get to act two and...I just can't do it. I would've been able to romance Awakening Anders easily but DA2 Anders, I can't even like him. I can feel sorry for him, want to help him, even sympathize with his situation to a certain degree, but I simply can't romance him. I personally just can't see the appeal or attraction to him in that way.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

In my opinion, if you don't want to romance Anders, don't romance Anders. He's not the kind of a romance you should push yourself to do, or just take for a spin. If you don't feel it, it's not FOR you.

Anders is for two kinds of Hawkes: the pragmatist who can look at all that crazy and say "yeah, I can deal with that. I've got this," or the hopeless romantic who just falls head-over-heels in love. The former will probably end up seeing Act 3 as just another hurdle, part of the package they knowingly signed on for, while our innocent romantic can end up feeling heartbroken and betrayed.

I like Anders for all the reasons Surely outlined. I'm also fascinated with Justice, and their merger. The thing they have become is awesome. Dangerous, sure, but amazing; he's a whole new form of life. I want to know about that, I want to help him understand what he is, and I want to be a hero. His hero. It's so rare that we're given a male love interest who needs rescuing, but boy does he ever.

If neither supporting someone while they burn themselves out on a worthy cause nor rescuing someone from madness in order to do science to them appeals to you, then this is not your scene. And that's fine... there are a bunch of romances in bioware games that totally don't appeal to me, either. This guy is definitely not for everyone.

[Sialater]

What everyone else has said, plus, there's also the small point that the romance is set up as "The love of a good person will save him."

And then... it doesn't. It completely turns that trope on its head.

[nitefyre410]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

In my opinion, if you don't want to romance Anders, don't romance Anders. He's not the kind of a romance you should push yourself to do, or just take for a spin. If you don't feel it, it's not FOR you.

Anders is for two kinds of Hawkes: the pragmatist who can look at all that crazy and say "yeah, I can deal with that. I've got this," or the hopeless romantic who just falls head-over-heels in love. The former will probably end up seeing Act 3 as just another hurdle, part of the package they knowingly signed on for, while our innocent romantic can end up feeling heartbroken and betrayed.

I like Anders for all the reasons Surely outlined. I'm also fascinated with Justice, and their merger. The thing they have become is awesome. Dangerous, sure, but amazing; he's a whole new form of life. I want to know about that, I want to help him understand what he is, and I want to be a hero. His hero. It's so rare that we're given a male love interest who needs rescuing, but boy does he ever.

If neither supporting someone while they burn themselves out on a worthy cause nor rescuing someone from madness in order to do science to them appeals to you, then this is not your scene. And that's fine... there are a bunch of romances in bioware games that totally don't appeal to me, either. This guy is definitely not for everyone.

 

 I agree with all of the points you just   just made . I  definetly fall under the pragmatist   Hawke.   I want  to see where Anders a goes from here. Can he over come and  rise above what he did , redeem and remake himself in the Hero  he wants to be so badly.   My Hawke(Friendship w/Anders)  wants to help him find that place between  happiness and rage where true focus sits and he  get control over Justice  and his anger.  

and the same goes for Fenris -  imagine how wickedly dangerous those to will be when the have control over their anger and themselves.  Where  the anger does not control them  but they control it.

[Gyrefalcon]

Fenris and Anders are actually 2 sides of the same coin.
1) Fenris is as concerned about slavery as Anders is about mages.
2) There is no good future in hooking up with an escaped slave with no memory and no social skills any more than there is with a spirit-possessed renegade apostate.

The real difference is in whether you want your "bad boy" to be tough or tender. Anders is out healing people among the poorest of the poor in Kirkwall while setting out milk for lost kittens. Fenris is hiding out from the world and his former masters in a ruined mansion, afraid of getting close to anyone and not knowing how. Both actually go blue-glowy when they get into their respective angry/dark modes even!


So I have to say it just comes down to personal taste at that point. They are both intriguing, doomed characters that you want to help rescue. But Anders did something that I don't believe Fenris did: Made a moralistic choice without the player/Hawke. I think that is what makes people hate Anders so much when they do.

[esper]

It is his passion and his belief in his cause, it just swept the legs from out under me, it is too intense. Had it been all other than Anders I would have thought his romance line incredible cheesy, but with Anders it works. The Fenris and Merrill romance I did afterwards was just not intense enough.
Also I sympathise with him and no how it is to have a too strong sense of justice.

[Gyrefalcon]

esper wrote...

It is his passion and his belief in his cause, it just swept the legs from out under me, it is too intense. Had it been all other than Anders I would have thought his romance line incredible cheesy, but with Anders it works. The Fenris and Merrill romance I did afterwards was just not intense enough.
Also I sympathise with him and no how it is to have a too strong sense of justice.

Yeah, nothing like having strong convictions and seeing where it could lead, eh?

I did forget to mention another reason for liking Anders:
We got to meet him before in DA: Awakenings.  So having had a longer time to get to know him, having more of his backstory, did help.  Especially since he changed so much between, you want to see him smile again. 

Usually I make the joke of "What is the difference between the Batman games and the Dragon Age games?  Batman tends to arrive in the nick of time."  Happy endings are pretty rare in Dragon Age.  I suspect the writers here and George R. R. Martin would get along very well.  (Heck, I am surprised there is anyone left to worry about fighting off the darkspawn the attrition rate is so high.  Even half the people you save turn on you later.)  So I have to say, I would LOVE to see Anders manage to get some sort of happy ending.  Of course, seeing the mages throw off their chains might be as good as it gets for him.  Still, if he dies, I hope he is watching out for young mages in the Fade. 
In the meantime, I hope there will be some further expansions for DA 2 that will allow you to run with him after the main story ends.  (He does still have ties with the King of Ferelden.  So who knows?  He might pull himself out of the fire one more time.)

[esper]

Gyrefalcon wrote...

esper wrote...

It is his passion and his belief in his cause, it just swept the legs from out under me, it is too intense. Had it been all other than Anders I would have thought his romance line incredible cheesy, but with Anders it works. The Fenris and Merrill romance I did afterwards was just not intense enough.
Also I sympathise with him and no how it is to have a too strong sense of justice.

Yeah, nothing like having strong convictions and seeing where it could lead, eh?

I did forget to mention another reason for liking Anders:
We got to meet him before in DA: Awakenings.  So having had a longer time to get to know him, having more of his backstory, did help.  Especially since he changed so much between, you want to see him smile again. 

Usually I make the joke of "What is the difference between the Batman games and the Dragon Age games?  Batman tends to arrive in the nick of time."  Happy endings are pretty rare in Dragon Age.  I suspect the writers here and George R. R. Martin would get along very well.  (Heck, I am surprised there is anyone left to worry about fighting off the darkspawn the attrition rate is so high.  Even half the people you save turn on you later.)  So I have to say, I would LOVE to see Anders manage to get some sort of happy ending.  Of course, seeing the mages throw off their chains might be as good as it gets for him.  Still, if he dies, I hope he is watching out for young mages in the Fade. 
In the meantime, I hope there will be some further expansions for DA 2 that will allow you to run with him after the main story ends.  (He does still have ties with the King of Ferelden.  So who knows?  He might pull himself out of the fire one more time.)

I love the batman character he is by far my favorite hero - all though I am not sure I would call him a hero.
I think fighting to see the mages throwing off ther chains is happy a ending as Anders can get. Of course it is icing on the cake if Hawke stays with him. But the Hawke/Anders pair will never get an easy life. They will properly die rather violently in the revolution because I don't see the war ending in their life times.

[jamesp81]

I like Anders because I like what he initially stands for.

I continue to like him because I don't believe he's beyond redemption, no matter how far down the dark road he has traveled. I think it's still possible for Anders to get a happy ending.

Take note of that BW.

[Heidenreich]

mmm thread necromancy