179 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

Yeah, I do wish they occasionally did one thing that didn't end in catastrophy too. It's not enough for them to fail in their objectives, they apparently need to fail so badly as to, I don't know, let loose a near unstoppable reaper controlled cybernetic killer. It makes them near impossible to logically support, because it's not a case of 'the ends justify the means' vs 'ethical but slower progress'. Cerberus just doesn't make progress, because seemingly everything they do goes inexorably wrong.

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

That still doesn't make Cerberus terrorists, either.

Perhaps, but let's not pretend they haven't earned a reputation as such.

[Keatons]

I think it isn't that Cerberus is a bunch of morons failing at everything but that from a gamplay perspective visiting a variety of Cerberus facilities where nothing is going wrong is boring for an action game. From a plot point why would TIM call up Shepard (and by extension, Miranda) to check in on projects that have no problems when there some that are in trouble ? As for the number, how many operations did Ceberus ruin bby themselves in ME2? I can think of 4, Firewalker, Overlord, the derelict reaper, and Teltin. Lazarus was betrayed by a Shadow Broker agent, Wilson. To summarize, you don't bring in a 'problem solver' in the way thet Shepard is when there isn't a problem.

[LGTX]

Teltin went rogue. Can be counted as a Cerberus failure, but minus the Illusive Man.

Modifié par LGTX, 06 août 2011 - 06:50 .

[Sebby]

marshalleck wrote...

Saren actually seemed dangerous, like he was Shepard's equal in charisma, capability, and surpassed him easily in ruthlessness and commitment to doing whatever it took to complete a mission. So why are Cerberus a bunch of bumbling morons? Is it because the ME team lost some writers? Are Bioware afraid of what they've created? Let's be honest, Cerberus has some pretty non-PC views and some really shady characters in its employ. Do Bioware think that if Cerberus were ever even once allowed to win that it would be perceived as glorifying those non-PC values?

That's what it seems like,much like how the lopsided outcomes of the morality system are biased against renegade.

[The Everchosen of Chaos]

Nah, Cerberus is far more interesting then fighting the geth or mindless husks. Besides it adds to the emotional impact of fighting fellow humans amidst the Reaper invasion, after all you the player i.e Shepard are trying to unite the whole galaxy and rally Humanity to resist the Reapers. So to come across a group of humans who want you dead no matter what and are seemingly allied with the Reapers, would hurt from a story/emotional point of view.

Plus the Cerberus troopers look like they will be much more intelligent and more challenging than previous foot soldiers from the first two games. The story is not the only important feature of the game, Combat will hopefully be spiced up and more challenging. My two cents.

Modifié par The Everchosen of Chaos, 06 août 2011 - 08:26 .

[sephiroth199127]

A enemy with a motivation is better than a bunch of copy pasted mercs. I Do feel however they breaking the whole Special Ops profile they had in first are a bit open about everything.

[CuseGirl]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Maybe....*gasp* Cerberus is essential to the plot....*gasp* !

that's too much to handle, just stop, just.....::expires::

[TobyHasEyes]

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Saren actually seemed dangerous, like he was Shepard's equal in charisma, capability, and surpassed him easily in ruthlessness and commitment to doing whatever it took to complete a mission. So why are Cerberus a bunch of bumbling morons? Is it because the ME team lost some writers? Are Bioware afraid of what they've created? Let's be honest, Cerberus has some pretty non-PC views and some really shady characters in its employ. Do Bioware think that if Cerberus were ever even once allowed to win that it would be perceived as glorifying those non-PC values?

That's what it seems like,much like how the lopsided outcomes of the morality system are biased against renegade.

For someone who mocks the "butthurt" of others, you sure do love making clear your own "butthurt" over things

Modifié par TobyHasEyes, 06 août 2011 - 09:09 .

[SandTrout]

If we are going to claim that there are no Cerberus successes, you should have payed more attention.

1) Akuze: While hardly something that is ethical, everything did, nominally, go 'according to plan'. Results unknown. Likelihood of catastrophe negligible.

2) The Cerberus base where we found Kohoku: Experiments on Thorian Creepers and Rachni appear to have been operating within parameters until the site suffered a 'Shepard Caused Disaster'.

3) The Alliance's Ascension project benefited greatly from the Teltin facility's research and from direct aid from Cerberus operatives. Loss of one subject and 3 operatives acceptable losses. Research continues to yield results.

4) Several assassinations that helped ease humanity's diplomatic relations. Examples include the elimination of Pope Clement XVI in order to allow more intimate diplomatic relationship with the Salarians and Turians.

5) EDI and Normandy SR-2

[Undertone]

marshalleck wrote...

Saren actually seemed dangerous, like he was Shepard's equal in charisma, capability, and surpassed him easily in ruthlessness and commitment to doing whatever it took to complete a mission. So why are Cerberus a bunch of bumbling morons? Is it because the ME team lost some writers? Are Bioware afraid of what they've created? Let's be honest, Cerberus has some pretty non-PC views and some really shady characters in its employ. Do Bioware think that if Cerberus were ever even once allowed to win that it would be perceived as glorifying those non-PC values?

Amen to that. I miss Saren and I doubt ME3 will present someone of that caliber.

[Sebby]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

Seboist wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Saren actually seemed dangerous, like he was Shepard's equal in charisma, capability, and surpassed him easily in ruthlessness and commitment to doing whatever it took to complete a mission. So why are Cerberus a bunch of bumbling morons? Is it because the ME team lost some writers? Are Bioware afraid of what they've created? Let's be honest, Cerberus has some pretty non-PC views and some really shady characters in its employ. Do Bioware think that if Cerberus were ever even once allowed to win that it would be perceived as glorifying those non-PC values?

That's what it seems like,much like how the lopsided outcomes of the morality system are biased against renegade.

For someone who mocks the "butthurt" of others, you sure do love making clear your own "butthurt" over things

I'm not buthurt about anything. I've long since accepted renegade is just there to hide the story's linearity and nothing more.

[Sebby]

SandTrout wrote...

If we are going to claim that there are no Cerberus successes, you should have payed more attention.

1) Akuze: While hardly something that is ethical, everything did, nominally, go 'according to plan'. Results unknown. Likelihood of catastrophe negligible.

2) The Cerberus base where we found Kohoku: Experiments on Thorian Creepers and Rachni appear to have been operating within parameters until the site suffered a 'Shepard Caused Disaster'.

3) The Alliance's Ascension project benefited greatly from the Teltin facility's research and from direct aid from Cerberus operatives. Loss of one subject and 3 operatives acceptable losses. Research continues to yield results.

4) Several assassinations that helped ease humanity's diplomatic relations. Examples include the elimination of Pope Clement XVI in order to allow more intimate diplomatic relationship with the Salarians and Turians.

5) EDI and Normandy SR-2

Yeah and then there's the Arc Projector, Hammerhead, the two Cerberus armors and Lazarus. There's also Overlord which yielded useful data regardless of whether or not David is kept in the program.

[SandTrout]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah and then there's the Arc Projector, Hammerhead, the two Cerberus armors and Lazarus. There's also Overlord which yielded useful data regardless of whether or not David is kept in the program.

I Intentionally excluded Overlord and Lazarus because there was a catastrophe that wasn't caused by Shepard involved. The AP, the armors, and the Hammerhead are good points that I missed, though.

[Sebby]

There's also Cerberus aiding Jacob in "ME: Galaxy" to stop a Batarian plot to release a bio-weapon on the citadel. That's another one that gets overlooked.

[Arijharn]

There's also the whole thing about them still existing in the first place, I think that proves as much that Cerberus is successful in some endeavors.

I'd probably even go as far to say that while the actual Teltin cell was unsuccessful (on the account that it was destroyed...), the actual goal that they set out to accomplish, i.e., a creation of a human super biotic was met. Not in any idealised manner of course, but regardless, Jack does exist in the capability she has.

[Gabey5]

i love cerberus, TIM, and everything that comes along with it

[Sisterofshane]

SandTrout wrote...

If we are going to claim that there are no Cerberus successes, you should have payed more attention.

1) Akuze: While hardly something that is ethical, everything did, nominally, go 'according to plan'. Results unknown. Likelihood of catastrophe negligible.

2) The Cerberus base where we found Kohoku: Experiments on Thorian Creepers and Rachni appear to have been operating within parameters until the site suffered a 'Shepard Caused Disaster'.

3) The Alliance's Ascension project benefited greatly from the Teltin facility's research and from direct aid from Cerberus operatives. Loss of one subject and 3 operatives acceptable losses. Research continues to yield results.

4) Several assassinations that helped ease humanity's diplomatic relations. Examples include the elimination of Pope Clement XVI in order to allow more intimate diplomatic relationship with the Salarians and Turians.

5) EDI and Normandy SR-2

Some of the above may have resulted with a few positives, but if you were to look back on the operation as a whole then I wouldn't say that the operations were clean-cut.

Example one, Akuze.  The plan was to continue to study the effects, until Toombs went all crazy and started killing all of the associated scientists.  Bet they wish, in hindsight, that they had killed Toombs as well.  Especially since he is the reason that their "covert op" is revealed to Shep, and possibly one of the scientists responsible for Akuze was turned into the Alliance to face charges.  Major espionage fail.

2.The base associated with Kohoku's death.  Why were they discovered in the first place?  Kohoku certainly found them easily enough.  And, it is possible for any information found relating to Cerberus to be handed over to the Shadow Broker.  Ends disasterously (whether caused by Shep or not), with no real results.  Again, a major espionage fail.

3. Tetlin.  Bad idea to begin with.  What was the official outcome?  One powerful biotic.  And no reason to believe that the results could ever be reproduced.  Ends with officers/scientists going rogue, then being killed, and subject Zero escaping (and wreaking havoc everywhere she goes).  May have benefited the Acsension project, but most likely only nominally, and on a whole developed our understaning of biotics only minimally.

4. Assasinations.  Very useful in the short term, and really they were just "allowed" by cerberus, not really carried out by them.  Kind of like how Cerberus is successful in stopping the Collectors, but really only because they let somebody who truly is competent perform the task.

5.Normandy and EDI remain under Shepards' control.  I don't think that TIM will take to kindly to that.  Again, you don't have a project "go rogue" and consider it as a whole to be a success.


I'm not saying that these were EPIC fails here, but still I wouldn't consider any of them complete successes either.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

I think Lex luthor is a really cool guy,he hides info and doesn't afraid to throw bodies at anything.

That being said it is kind of cool having a sort of "enemy from within" type of enemy,I'd rather blow away Cerberus goons then mercs any day.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 06 août 2011 - 11:02 .

[Someone With Mass]

I'd rather focus on matters that are actually important, like...stopping the ancient machine race from enslaving and harvesting all civilizations, instead of Cerberus.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'd rather focus on matters that are actually important, like...stopping the ancient machine race from enslaving and harvesting all civilizations, instead of Cerberus.

On that note if you start with ME2(like me) you really don't get a scope for the reaper threat except that "they are bad guys."

But on the other hand you get TIM and his star throwing money and bodies at whatever they see fit,and it gives you an idea of how bad they are.

[DarkDragon777]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I'd rather focus on matters that are actually important, like...stopping the ancient machine race from enslaving and harvesting all civilizations, instead of Cerberus.

Implying Cerberus isn't important?  That was an ignorant statement.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 06 août 2011 - 11:12 .

[KotorEffect3]

The reapers are still the main event but the cerberus plays an interesting and important role. btw did I mention that I will let Jack tear TIM apart?

[Someone With Mass]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Implying Cerberus isn't improtant?  That was an ignorant statement.

Compared to the Reapers and post-ME2? 

No. They're not important. They're vermin at best.

[LPPrince]

Honestly, I wish Cerberus wasn't so integral into the franchise.

I mean, goddang.

Books, Comics, Two of the main games heavily featuring them. They are EVERYWHERE.

Cerberus Overkill. There should've been that much focus on the REAL bad guys, or at least a combination of everything in the series, the different races, cultures, places, etc etc.

But yeah, some times I feel Cerberus REALLY drowned out the Reaper threat.

[SandTrout]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Implying Cerberus isn't improtant?  That was an ignorant statement.

Compared to the Reapers and post-ME2? 

No. They're not important. They're vermin at best.

Then why bother with trolling this thread?