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[Aliuex]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Only DAO uses over the shoulder camera view but we had this first/third person perspective discussion before. Through one of the interviews with the Docs, it's revealed that DA O was meant for first person and not third person.

I feel like it's time to fire my NWN2 copy up again for a quick run through and refresh. In any case, if DA:O was meant as first person I feel they didn't really accomplish that. I mean, if that's the case why take a cinematic approach to it? I feel like if I'm playing in first person, I shouldn't really be seeing the avatar that I'm controlling. This may just be me though.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
True. And I enjoy it that way. I feel more involved than watching the world.   On the other hand, I don't mind with the voice itself. It's the defined 3 colors tone persona and how it handles the character persona bug me. Hawke's voice is fine. He has the characteristic of the subtle person I want him to be. But his tendency to act and talk  on his own ****** me of to no end.

Ah, this is about the dominate personality that takes over on occasion? I'm a little on the fence about it. I like that the tone is tracked, and I like that each dialogue option has the tones. There is one time I can think of off the top of my head that really threw me. It was accepting the quest from Bodahn about finding Sandal in the deep roads. I was playing my snarky mage Hawke and she said (due to her personality) something along the lines of "We'll find him in one piece. Or maybe two. Hard to say." and I felt that was completely wrong for her character. As much as she thinks she's funny, she wouldn't make light of this situation.It definitely needs some tweaking, but ultimately I think it's a step in the right direction.

Edited to add: I'm not sure I like the wheel system, as I think it kind of limits the amount of choices you're presented with to 3, not including the investigate options. For example why must it always be charming or sarcastic? Kind or Diplomatic? Direct or angry? Why is there never a real mix of the choices, or really more than three choices at a time. While it works in ME because you're limited to Paragon, Neutral and Renegade I'm not yet convinced that it really works for DA.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Thank you. I get what you mean. This.... I don't know how to express it but certainly doesn't suit my RP style.
For me this is just like watching a character where you controlled while you yourself are not part of the world. I don't know how you enjoy it.   But you're right. This is a matter of taste.

I'm glad the message in that wall of text got through. The enjoyment I get out of it is creating a character. I love creating characters, it's a hobby I've had since highschool. When I discovered Bioware makes games about creating and defining your own characters I was in heaven.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
BioWare start using cinematic approach and VO with ME 2 and DA 2 is following ME 2 formula. They have never done such things before ME 2.

This is me misunderstanding what you meant before. Yes, I agree Bioware is using the technology now available to make games as cinematic as possible while still including player input. I think there were signs of it as early as Kotor. The scene that jumps to my mind is the Revan reveal, and the conversation on board the ship afterward. I think the only thing that stopped Bioware from making that more cinematic was limitations on technology and rpgs in general at the time.

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Ah that's easy. I'm not a female therefore I imagine what would my GF react as Amber Cousland. So Amber story is more like "made up" while playing as maverick Cousland, I get the chance to play as myself, having romance with Morrigan despite she constantly ****** me off ( it surprise me though how much I care for this woman in the end ). So you see, playing as Amber Cousland is never the same as playing as Maverick Cousland. Amber had romance with Alistair who died for him while my Maverick loves Morrigan very much that he will find her no matter what.  The role-playing experince is totally different. As Amber Cousland, I try to understand how female feeling works and this is though because I only guessing. But playing as Maverick Cousland I completely understand how I feel and why I choose such reaction. Therefore it's more me and the story feel more alive or engaging.

This I can understand. I guess I just find it easier when role playing in the third person. Even roleplaying in third person, I find I have a harder time connecting with a male character. I have a male Cousland that romances Morrigan, but he's not exactly monogamous. I have two fem!wardens that romance Alistair, but both treat the romance differently. My Surana is inexperienced and naive about, well, a lot of stuff outside the circle, where as my Tabris is more street-wise and hardens Alistair. Tabris eventually becomes chancellor to King Alistair while still being in a relationship, and Surana rides off with warden Alistair into the sunset. Despite the silent protagonist making it a little more difficult to get a good sense of my characters in game, it adds a bit more to replay for me. In my head, despite it not being expressed in game, my characters had very different tones from each other. If that could have been shown in game though, that would have been amazing.

Modifié par suzaku77, 20 août 2011 - 09:20 .

[Xewaka]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Conversation in Neverwinter Night 2 is first person view just like Neverwinter Night.

There are also conversations that happen in the adventure map, with the dialogue options appearing in the log, like this one:

[dragonfire100]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dragonfire100 wrote...

xkg wrote...

Please. Don't use your ignorance to make my POINT look bad.
My point was simple - his analogy was very poor and thats all.
I never said his POINT is invalid and thats why i only quoted this part of his post.

Besides I agree with the rest of his post - about everyone being entitled to their own opinion.

Post reported.

For what?  What in that post was possibly worth reporting?

He called my friend ingorate thats a insult bioware does not like insults here.

[xkg]

dragonfire100 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dragonfire100 wrote...

xkg wrote...

Please. Don't use your ignorance to make my POINT look bad.
My point was simple - his analogy was very poor and thats all.
I never said his POINT is invalid and thats why i only quoted this part of his post.

Besides I agree with the rest of his post - about everyone being entitled to their own opinion.

Post reported.

For what?  What in that post was possibly worth reporting?

He called my friend ingorate thats a insult bioware does not like insults here.

Or maybe just let your friend decide if it was an insult and then let your friend report me ?

But since you have already reported my post and TBH I really don't care lets not derail this topic anymore or it will get locked.

[dragonfire100]

xkg wrote...

dragonfire100 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dragonfire100 wrote...

xkg wrote...

Please. Don't use your ignorance to make my POINT look bad.
My point was simple - his analogy was very poor and thats all.
I never said his POINT is invalid and thats why i only quoted this part of his post.

Besides I agree with the rest of his post - about everyone being entitled to their own opinion.

Post reported.

For what?  What in that post was possibly worth reporting?

He called my friend ingorate thats a insult bioware does not like insults here.

Or maybe just let your friend decide if it was an insult and then let your friend report me ?

But since you have already reported my post and TBH I really don't care lets not derail this topic anymore or it will get locked.

Ok fine ill guess you can keep sending messages ok guys back on topic and im not a moderator im just saying because we dont want this tread to be locked.

[Aliuex]

Xewaka wrote...

There are also conversations that happen in the adventure map, with the dialogue options appearing in the log, like this one:

^This was the type of dialogue I was thinking of in NWN2. The third person view showing me my character and to me, saying that I was meant to role play in the third person. The lack of a voice here wasn't an issue to me because the characters didn't have a voice either, so it didn't feel like my PC was lacking something that everyone else had.

I do remember scenes like the first time that you meet Duncan and Sand in the tavern had some limited cinematics. Sand basically blows you all up, if I remember right, In this case, my character is the only one who can't speak and it felt unnatural. The same goes for the trial scene.

A comparable scene in DA:O to me would have to be the landsmeet. The entire scene is set up with good cinematics. Loghain gets his speech to wow the crowd and my warden stays silent. The landsmeet is still one of my favorite points in Origins, but I think that a voiced pc would have improved it. The same with the pre-battle speech by Alistair/Anora.

In DA2, after everything has gone down and you pick your final squad mates you are then able to give instructions to each of your other companions. I really like that you get to see Hawke as a leader here handing down her instructions before regrouping with the leader of your ally. It's the best example I can really think of, considering that there's no scene in the game that I feel is on par with the Landsmeet.

Modifié par suzaku77, 20 août 2011 - 02:31 .

[dragonfire100]

I still like voiced better so yeah.

[LordKinoda]

[quote]I did not play the exact game you mention. I did, however, play Monkey Island 3, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, and Sam'n'Max Hit the Road. All of which had full dialogue options and have the voiced line repeated when picked. I was never annoyed by it.[/quote]

I think you're in a very small population of people who wouldn't be seriously annoyed by reading an entire line then have it spat right back at you.

[quote]The best option for making an informed dialogue choice is full line. Because the only sure way to understand the full extent of the line you're choosing is to know the full extent of the line before choosing it (yay tautology).[/quote]

Well that's not an option because the majority of people don't want to hear the line they just read.

[quote]The wheel and paraphrase renders ay attempt to roleplay a coherent character a mindless chore rather than a fulfilling endeavour.[/quote]

So I ask again, why continue to play if you only expect it to fail ? You don't want it to work, therefore it won't.

[quote]I don't want to "read a line and then have it read back to me". I want to choose a line, full stop. But that's something DA2 (and ME and ME2) won't let me do.

No matter what they do with the voice, I want to see the full line before I make my selection.[/quote]

You can't do that, not with a voiced character. Otherwise you will just hear the line you just read. Which is silly, and like I said above, the majority of people do not like.

[quote]And you keep saying the Warden stares blankly with a blank face. First of all , most of time you only see the Wardens shoulder and don't see their face, because its focused on the NPC you are talking to (this makes sense because it is your character, you are role playing that character), and when you do see thier face, their faces do have emotions on them. Voice acting is not necassarily requred for a face to have emotion on it.[/quote]

There are a few instances that I remember where some emotion was shown on the Warden's face, but I'm almost certain they were only in a cinematic, and not during any dialog scenes.

[quote]Why is it that when a topic like this shows up, asking specifically for your opinion on a certain aspect of a game, that it is almost inevitable that it turns into a "My opinion is superior to your opinion" contest and folks essentially start tearing at each others jugulars trying to disprove the other person. [/quote]

I don't think that everybody here has that type of mindset for the thread. I'm not trying to change anybodys mind per se. Only giving my thoughts and opinions, on other people's thoughts and opinions

[quote]I never see my own emotion unless I see through mirror but I know If I'm sad or happy or excited because I FEEL it. Not because I see those emotions. Your argument is a moot.[/quote]

Uh...no. Because you can't FEEL the Warden's emotion. Yes you can feel your own, but it's not really the same with the character on the screen. You have to force yourself to feel the emotion for things and hear intent in the text instead of actually feeling it naturally.

[quote]I am the actor for Neverwinter Night, Neverwinter Night 2 and Dragon Age Origins. My Cousland didn't sacrifice herself to save the world. She did it because of Alistair and because she had already lost everything dear in her life that nothing matter anymore. This is my Cousland story. Without me there is no story. Without me there is no character. This is how I see freedom in term of storywise. Things that I don't get from Hawke and DA 2 because everything is railroaded.[/quote]

That's just how you wanted to interpret the story, which is fine. Doesn't make it any different than DA 2 though. In the end, ALL variations of the Warden stop the darkspawn. Just like ALL variations of Hawke bring about the change with mages. Some aspects of stories have to be "railroaded" because if you make to many variables it becomes too complicated and you wouldn't be able to finish the story.

[quote]And don't give me bad example with Renegade Shepard. Shepard has no personality. He/She is a set character whose personality already defined by BioWare. You only control and watch him/her do the acting. [/quote]

That makes no sense, paragon and renegade are polar oppostie personalties. You could say BW defined two personalites to choose from, but not use it as a singular. This too isn't a perfect approach, but still leaves a choice to you to help define the character the way you want to. I can't speak for others, but me personally, I don't choose ALL renegade or ALL paragon. The majority of my responses are paragon, but some are neutral, and some are renegade. This helps to make Shepard unique to me, and more realistic in terms of emotion. It's unlikely that people will choose the exact varitations of responses that I do, therefore helping me role play through the character and make him my own.

[quote]Most RPG allow you to live your character, make your own story and journey. And share it with other people. That's how I view RPG and I'm not about to submit to JRPG fans' view like yours who rather watch movie than truly become the actor of the game. Period.[/quote]

Like I said in the comment above this one, I live Shepard by my variation in choices. Yes if you choose to do ALL of one type of response it's static and you are just clicking words to watch things happen. But mixing it up makes it your own and unique.

[quote]What is Hawke story again? Right. He's a missing person who you don't even know exist or delusion from Varrick. But why do you care? You are not Hawke. You are just a person who watch Hawke from your monitor. That's who you are.You're too busy enjoying your observation and praising no matter how ridiculous it is. Yet, You have no idea how ridiculous it feel playing as the missing Hawke who only exist in other people's tale.[/quote]

Was there more variety and variations in DAO ? Definitely. But there is still plenty of room to make Hawke unique. I again point my previously replies above this one.

And where did you get that Hawke doesn't exist ? Heh, Hawke is real and not a delusion of Varric, lol. Cassandra knows Hawke exists, but is questioning Varric about details to see if she can find something in his story to help her find him/her.

[quote]BioWare seem to be moving away from this style since Mass Effect 2. How do you define a character when it's already defined? How can you think it's your character when all you did is just piloting/controlling it from afar like any other NPC?[/quote]

Again,

I don't choose ALL renegade or ALL paragon. The majority of my responses are paragon, but some are neutral, and some are renegade. This helps to make Shepard unique to me, and more realistic in terms of emotion. It's unlikely that people will choose the exact varitations of responses that I do, therefore helping me role play through the character and make him my own.

THAT'S how I do it. Same with Hawke. I don't choose ALL diplomatic, ALL direct, ALL sarcastic, etc.

[quote]You see this experience can never be the same if I am to play a totally good character[/quote]

Hawke can be just as much of jerk as the Warden. And so can Shepard, heh. One has only to watch THIS video for evidence. None of these characters can be considered "evil" though. Anti-hero is a better definition.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 21 août 2011 - 08:49 .

[xkg]

LordKinoda wrote...

I did not play the exact game you mention. I did, however, play Monkey Island 3, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, and Sam'n'Max Hit the Road. All of which had full dialogue options and have the voiced line repeated when picked. I was never annoyed by it.

I think you're in a very small population of people who wouldn't be seriously annoyed by reading an entire line then have it spat right back at you.

The best option for making an informed dialogue choice is full line. Because the only sure way to understand the full extent of the line you're choosing is to know the full extent of the line before choosing it (yay tautology).

Well that's not an option because the majority of people don't want to hear the line they just read.

How can you say that without having any numbers to present, or maybe you do ?
Maybe make some poll or something first then you can say that again.
Until then there is no point.

[DeathDragon185]

where's the POLL?

EDIT : nvm

Modifié par DeathDragon185, 21 août 2011 - 09:05 .

[xkg]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

where's the POLL?

Poll for this thread ?
On the first page.

Here is the link

Hello There wrote...
Just give your opinions and vote in the POLL.

Modifié par xkg, 21 août 2011 - 09:03 .

[FieryDove]

Polls...bah. I am tired of them past the point of bothering with them. They are only there to give people something to do. (Or use as a tool for arguments)

[LordKinoda]

How can you say that without having any numbers to present, or maybe you do ?
Maybe make some poll or something first then you can say that again.
Until then there is no point.

I don't have a poll or any one specific number to point to no. I'm speaking more from the many reviews/comments/opinions that I've read about DA2/DAO/ME. A lot of people would not want the option to read the full line and then have it read back to them.

I find it very odd indeed if you seriously think that's a better solution than the paraphrasing. Like I said, I don't think the paraphrasing is perfect, but it's leagues better than having THAT be done, heh. I hope there is some type of middle ground that can be found for the next game, that way so many people won't be put out.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 21 août 2011 - 09:28 .

[Tirfan]

Well, as long as paraphrasing forces me to do reload-fests, it does not work. And well, I can't see that a parahprase-system where I don't need to do at least n+1 reloads is possible.

Having to reload at least twice during every convo in DA2 was not fun, let me tell you that.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Xewaka wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Conversation in Neverwinter Night 2 is first person view just like Neverwinter Night.

There are also conversations that happen in the adventure map, with the dialogue options appearing in the log, like this one:

I missed this one. This log conversation also appeared in Neverwinter Night. Apparently I don't recall having this feature in DA O and much older party based RPG like Realm of Arkania series. In any case this change my earlier point of view. Thanks.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

@LordKinoda, I like your post. You make valid point and I do enjoy reading it. Thanks for replaying.

LordKinoda wrote...
Uh...no. Because you can't FEEL the Warden's emotion. Yes you can feel your own, but it's not really the same with the character on the screen. You have to force yourself to feel the emotion for things and hear intent in the text instead of actually feeling it naturally.

The warden IS me in my mind. The toon only represent the physical body of the warden in Thedas but the soul is me. To me, the warden never alive on his own. All those blank stare and emotionless are fully expected because It's me that give him life and emotion. Emotion cannot be visualized when I myself have no idea how am I supposed to look when expressing such emotion.  I never forced myself to feel such emotion. As far as I concen I have no problem with DAO events to express my feeling as the warden naturally. The one very thing I can not understand with Hawke. ( I don't understand why Hawke look sad when I feel nothing at all with the death of Carver, for example )

LordKinoda wrote...
That's just how you wanted to interpret the story, which is fine. Doesn't make it any different than DA 2 though. In the end, ALL variations of the Warden stop the darkspawn. Just like ALL variations of Hawke bring about the change with mages. Some aspects of stories have to be "railroaded" because if you make to many variables it becomes too complicated and you wouldn't be able to finish the story.

Hawke variation can only be done if you have the motivation to do so. I can make stories for the Warden because I always feel that I have to decide my own destiny as the Warden. This is my motivation. I don't have such motivation for Hawke because I can never be a Hawke. Hawke doesn't trully exist. He's a character inside Varric's tale and physically missing. The plane that I walked as Hawke is tainted with exaggeration. The nature of unreliable third person narrator story within story leaves doubt of the journey that Hawke had in the past and yet I as Hawke do not have such memory. Nothing make sense with how the world works if I imagine myself as Hawke. There is no reason to walk the story that I should had known better than Varrick himself should I become Hawke. But I realize that I am not Hawke. Therefore why should I care for someone who has nothing to do with me?

LordKinoda wrote...

That makes no sense, paragon and renegade are polar oppostie personalties. You could say BW defined two personalites to choose from, but not use it as a singular. This too isn't a perfect approach, but still leaves a choice to you to help define the character the way you want to. I can't speak for others, but me personally, I don't choose ALL renegade or ALL paragon. The majority of my responses are paragon, but some are neutral, and some are renegade. This helps to make Shepard unique to me, and more realistic in terms of emotion. It's unlikely that people will choose the exact varitations of responses that I do, therefore helping me role play through the character and make him my own.

If you don't maximize either one of personalities, you can never take neutral ground to solve your team mates quarrel. Due to this reasoning, it's logical that you will always pick the only one persona and this isn't helping in my role-playing. I can never choose to randomize Sheppard's personality because I will not allow myself to side anyone in their fight. So yes, Sheppard's personality is static paragon renegade. The same goes to Hawke. If I don't constantly choose blue option, I can never solve the Hunter and the Werewolf diplomatically. On the other hand, If I don't choose to use purple dialogue I can never trick the guard at the warehouse with false alarm. I can never intimidate anyone if I'm not a red Hawke. Randomize should make the character unique but you will never solve anything the way your character should because you have no personality advantages. Therefore, you are forced to be a static character to gain advantage of such personalities. My character is generally a diplomatic person who will try to solve things diplomatically and like to make stupid jokes at times ( just like Alistair ). With Sheppard and Hawke, I can never be that character anymore.  I just couldn't randomized the personality option while there're personality advantages. It's happen with all the set characters. There will always be something that prevent me to roleplay the character the way I want to. Ezio in Assasin's Creed for example, is a bully spoiled teenager. I stopped playing it after just 15 minutes because I hate bullies. I banged so many bullies heads on my school's wall when I was young.  I really don't like set character  no matter how good it is.

LordKinoda wrote...
And where did you get that Hawke doesn't exist ? Heh, Hawke is real and not a delusion of Varric, lol. Cassandra knows Hawke exists, but is questioning Varric about details to see if she can find something in his story to help her find him/her.

No one knows what happen to Hawke. Varric himself doesn't look too confident when asked wheter Hawke is still alive or not. Hawke never show himself either. Everything is just a flashback. It's not even 100% true story. Varric had been caught twice lying by Cassandra. Since no one truly knows what happen to Hawke including player themselves, I  assume that Hawke doesn't exist. It just doesn't make sense that I cannot know what happen to my own supposely character. It just doesn't make any sense at all.  Nothing make sense with DA 2 story.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 21 août 2011 - 02:49 .

[LordKinoda]

( I don't understand why Hawke look sad when I feel nothing at all with the death of Carver, for example )

Then you have some type of emotional disconnect. Carver is Hawke's brother, why the hell would he NOT be sad if he dies ? It's called empathy. Perhaps you don't possess the skill as much as others.

Hawke variation can only be done if you have the motivation to do so

Exactly. You dislike the voice acting so much you don't even give it a shot, so of course you won't like it. I don't like the silent characters as much, but that doesn't stop me from playing them and still enjoying the character and the story.

He's a character inside Varric's tale and physically missing. The plane that I walked as Hawke is tainted with exaggeration.

Where do you keep getting this from ? Just because Varric is relating the story to Cassandra doesn't make it any less real. You are making the choices for Hawke, what you do in the story is what HAPPENED, Varric is just passing it along. It's cold hard fact, just like a history book telling of when JFK got shot, or when the bomb was dropped in Japan; Varric is the history book, look at it that way. Only twice was Varric exaggerating, and that was at the beginning, and when he was talking about meeting back up with his brother.

If you don't maximize either one of personalities, you can never take neutral ground to solve your team mates quarrel.

Sorry, that's just not true. Most especially for DA2. You don't have to choose all of one type of personality to get access to companions quests or other outcomes. I've never been cut-off from companion quests or outcomes that I wanted during my playthroughs. And all of my playthroughs follow the mix up routine.

Ezio in Assasin's Creed for example, is a bully spoiled teenager. I stopped playing it after just 15 minutes because I hate bullies

Then your total gaming experience is poorer for it. Assasin's Creed is an amazing game, and you put it down after 15 minutes because you didn't like the way he acted at first ? You never gave it a chance to see how the character evolves. This is your failing, not the games.

No one knows what happen to Hawke.

This is called a cliffhanger. Keeping us on the edge of our seat to wait and see where Hawke went. This is obviously going to be explained in some fashion in DA3. Whether we get to play as Hawke again is anyone's guess, but we will ultimately know where he went.

Varric himself doesn't look too confident when asked wheter Hawke is still alive or not.

Heh, he looked pretty confident to me.

Cassandra: "Is the Champion dead ?"

[smirking]Varric: "Oh, I doubt that."

He's not confident he knows where Hawke is, because he truly doesn't. He seems damn sure that he's alive though.

Hawke never show himself either. Everything is just a flashback. It's not even 100% true story.

Again, cliffhanger.

Varric had been caught twice lying by Cassandra.

So, that's irrelevant. YOU are still ultimately in control of how things play out. Refer to my "history book" comment above.

Since no one truly knows what happen to Hawke including player themselves, I assume that Hawke doesn't exist. It just doesn't make sense that I cannot know what happen to my own supposely character. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

Cliffhanger, cliffhanger, cliffhanger. This is all that needs to be said.

Have you seriously never enjoyed or experienced a cliffhanger ? Exactly, you can't say you have not. I can point to one that I know for SURE you experienced. When the Warden is shot by the arrow in the Tower of Ishal, you didn't really know if he was going to die. You were fairly certain he wouldn't, because that would obviously ruin the story, but you didn't know how he was going to make it out of the tower. Not until the next scene where it is explained. Just because you got to know shortly after, doesn't make the anticipation any less enjoyable. This is the same, only now we will have to wait a fews years to find out the conclusion, instead of a few minutes.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 21 août 2011 - 11:10 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

LordKinoda wrote...

Then you have some type of emotional disconnect. Carver is Hawke's brother, why the hell would he NOT be sad if he dies ? It's called empathy. Perhaps you don't possess the skill as much as others.

Not everyone cares about his brother.  If we're supposed ot be free to design Hawke's personality, then Hawke can't express emotions we don't want him to.

Then your total gaming experience is poorer for it. Assasin's Creed is an amazing game, and you put it down after 15 minutes because you didn't like the way he acted at first ? You never gave it a chance to see how the character evolves. This is your failing, not the games.

I have no interest in watching other people's characters.  My characters are the ones that interest me.

I wouldn't have enjoyed Assassin's Creed regardless.  I do not enjoy action games.

[TEWR]

I'd call Hawke's expression to Carver's death more "I understand how sad this is for Mother" than "WHY CARVER WHY?!?!?!"

[Texhnolyze101]

I don't care if the PC stays voiced il just mute my tv like im doing with DA2 and since i hate the companions to i don't really care what they have to say so i wont be missing much. :]

[LordKinoda]

I have no interest in watching other people's characters. My characters are the ones that interest me.

It's great when people are more connected and feel the character is truly their own, but ultimately there has to be some linearity or a coherent story could never be told. Dollars to dimes there is somebody out there who played their character almost EXACTLY the same way you did. Because it's not TRULY open ended, otherwise you would never finish the game and just end up with random boring moments strung together ad nauseam.

So while one would like to imagine little nuances to their character (e.g. 'my character is the strong silent type', or 'they're really gruff and rough around the edges because they had a rough childhood', or 'they have this cute little laugh they do when somebody is flirting with them'), it's really irrelevant in the end because those nuances are not explained or defined because it's impossible to create the myriad of emotion to make every single person happy. But when the character is voiced and just a little more defined, those nuances CAN be sewn in a little to give just a little more life and character to the avatar.

I don't care if the PC stays voiced il just mute my tv like im doing with DA2 and since i hate the companions to i don't really care what they have to say so i wont be missing much. :]

Then I really have to wonder why you even bother to play this game at all. Do you play it for the action ?  It's not THAT great. RPGs are way more about story and character interactions than fighting and non-stop action. You picked up the wrong genre if you just skip all the dialog in the game. Grab a copy of Halo or COD, you'll have more fun.

I wouldn't have enjoyed Assassin's Creed regardless. I do not enjoy action games.

I'll just say to you as well, I think your total gaming experience is a little poorer for it. Great game, it's not ALL action and small story like a shooter. It's a sci-fi/period piece genre bender with a great story.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 22 août 2011 - 05:54 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...

[quote]( I don't understand why Hawke look sad when I feel nothing at all with the death of Carver, for example )[/quote]

Then you have some type of emotional disconnect. Carver is Hawke's brother, why the hell would he NOT be sad if he dies ? It's called empathy. Perhaps you don't possess the skill as much as others.[/quote]
Precisely. There's a disconnection between me and Hawke and I believe I'm not alone in this matter. As far as I concern this shouldn't be happening. If I am to play as Hawke I should feel sad but I don't. This has nothing to do with my skill. This is called bad writing.  Bad storytelling. If  a writer fail to invoke emotion impact on the reader, it's the writer that doesn't posses the skill of storytelling. Not the reader who read and experiencing his story.

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
[quote]Hawke variation can only be done if you have the motivation to do so[/quote]

Exactly. You dislike the voice acting so much you don't even give it a shot, so of course you won't like it. I don't like the silent characters as much, but that doesn't stop me from playing them and still enjoying the character and the story.[/quote]
As I said before, I don't dislike the voice itself. I dislike the implementation. I dislike the set character. I dislike the knowledge that I can't make my  own image for my character. Hawke just need to react and talk properly according to what I choose from the limited 3 dialogue options. Instead I am forced to watch him act and behave without my consciousness. If I can't fully control my own character  then how am I suppose to role-play him? I might as well watch Ezio play the game for me while I eat popcorn behind my screen.

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
[quote]He's a character inside Varric's tale and physically missing. The plane that I walked as Hawke is tainted with exaggeration. [/quote]

Where do you keep getting this from ?[/quote]
Isn't that what DA 2 about? Everything else is just the content or the object. The frame and subject of DA 2 is Varrick telling the story and Cassandra wants to find out more about Hawke over the course of 10 years. Hawke IS Varrick story's character who is now missing.

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
Just because Varric is relating the story to Cassandra doesn't make it
any less real. You are making the choices for Hawke, what you do in the
story is what HAPPENED, Varric is just passing it along. It's cold hard
fact, just like a history book telling of when JFK got shot, or when the
bomb was dropped in Japan; Varric is the history book, look at it that
way. Only twice was Varric exaggerating, and that was at the beginning,
and when he was talking about meeting back up with his brother.[/quote]
Very bad move for a historian whose information is the only source that available to us. It doesn't change the fact that DA 2 story has been exaggerated. Hence, the world I walked as Hawke is not 100% true. I am not even sure if Hawke is real either. I know he does exist in the past. I don't know about now. None of use knows. Anyway, all I concern is if I can't exist in that world neither could Hawke.

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
[quote]If you don't maximize either one of personalities, you can never take neutral ground to solve your team mates quarrel.[/quote]

Sorry, that's just not true.[/quote]
That's true in Mass Effect 2. You need to maximize your paragon/renegade personality in order to take a neutral ground or else you will have to pick side. 

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
Most especially for DA2. You don't have to choose all of one type of personality to get access to companions quests or other outcomes. I've never been cut-off from companion quests or outcomes that I wanted during my playthroughs. And all of my playthroughs follow the mix up routine.[/quote]
I am not talking about the companion quest. I am talking about problem solving which is related to your dominant personality. The elven assasin and the werewolf at Wounded Coast. You do aware that  you have to be blue Hawke in order to prevent bloodshed, do you?. If you don't either the eleven assasin or the werewolf will die.

The thug that guard the warehouse can be tricked without needless bloodshed only by purple Hawke. While the harbor master's assistant at the Dock can only be intimidated by the Red Hawke or he will embrass you for your incompetant.

This is what the game wants you to be. Become one of the static predefined character or you will not be able to solve anything due to your lack of personality dominant.


[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
[quote]Ezio in Assasin's Creed for example, is a bully spoiled teenager. I stopped playing it after just 15 minutes because I hate bullies[/quote]

Then your total gaming experience is poorer for it. Assasin's Creed is an amazing game, and you put it down after 15 minutes because you didn't like the way he acted at first ? You never gave it a chance to see how the character evolves. This is your failing, not the games.[/quote]
I never gave it a chance to see how the character evolves? I don't want to see. I want to role play. And because I want to role play I don't want to be a bully. This is not my gaming experience problem. It's the problem with the developer mentality who thinks they can define a pretty  cool character that suit other people when they shouldn't have done so.


[quote]LordKinoda wrote...

Have you seriously never enjoyed or experienced a cliffhanger ? [/quote]
I enjoy cliffhanger if it's done right. DA 2 cliffhanger is not done well, happen at the wrong time and wrong person. Hawke is a wrong character to play with cliffhanger because you are dealing with past tense. Not present tense. Not future tense. you should have all the information about Hawke by now and properly identify him as your character. But you don't. The narrative, the story structure isn't really about you. It's about Cassandra wanting to find more about Hawke. The cliffhanger and the story make sense if you are Cassandra. But you are not advertized as Cassandra. You are meant to be Hawke. Therefore, how can you be missing in such a cliffhanger way?

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...
Exactly, you can't say you have not. I can point to one that I know for
SURE you experienced. When the Warden is shot by the arrow in the Tower
of Ishal, you didn't really know if he was going to die. You were fairly
certain he wouldn't, because that would obviously ruin the story, but
you didn't know how he was going to make it out of the tower. Not until
the next scene where it is explained. Just because you got to know
shortly after, doesn't make the anticipation any less enjoyable. This is
the same, only now we will have to wait a fews years to find out the
conclusion, instead of a few minutes.[/quote]
The Warden story is in present time. When I assume the role of the warden, the blight had just started. The story had not yet ended. It was dealt progressively and not backward flashback like Hawke's story. There're a lot of room to making your own story. It's not yet happening. None of the Warden killed the archdemon when they started as Cousland or Mahariel or Aeducan. Therefore it make sense that we don't know about what's going to be happen.

This is no excuse for Hawke. He was a Champion of Kirwall before the war erupted. His story already ended by the time Cassandra interrogated Varric. And we are re-living Hawke's past. The story already happened. That's the cold fact.There is no such thing as we don't know what happen to our own character unless we are playing as Cassandra.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 22 août 2011 - 06:24 .

[Hello There]

Damn. The VP people are catching up, guys. Their not winning yet, but their catching up. Get your friends to vote, people.

And here is some encouriging information from Fernando Melo that i found on this thread.


"The decision of whether to have a set character in the style of DAII, or multiple origins a la Dragon Age: Origins will be based on fan feedback."


Do you know what this means? It means they are considering on wether to have Origins and SP like DAO or a set, voiced character like DA2, based on Fan Feedback. I bring in the voice here because it is nigh impossible to have seperate voice actors for different Origins (costs, no point), and the SP is better suited to Origins. I think SP and Origins come hand in hand.

I think we have a reasonable choice of actually persuading Bioware if we fight hard enough. Think, why would they say they are considering this, based on fan feedback, if they have already made up their mind? If they have already made up their mind, then their is no point in telling the public the opposite, since it is only going to give people high hopes that are ultimitely going to be shattered. They would only say this if they are seriously considering changing things.

So I have hope. Lets make some noise!

Modifié par Hello There, 22 août 2011 - 10:11 .

[Denizen89]

Silent. Puts you in the seat of the main character, while a voiced one has quite a few things they need to get right.