987 réponses à ce sujet

[happy_daiz]

I see you're all still fighting the good fight. Carry on. 



It doesn't mean anything; I just thought it was cute. 

[jbrand2002uk]

I think Ukki is too simple minded to see the bigger picture lol and happy_daiz that a really nice ****...........cat very cute XD

[Uccio]

Ha, it hurts doesn´t it?! Face it, kiddie-wheel is for those who need someone to tell them from what kind of answers to choose from. Wanna be funny? Choose this. Wanna be bad-ass? Choose this. You gotta admit it, thats the way it was designed for. No brainer, for kiddies.

[Barry Bathernak]

*i messed up this comment*

Modifié par Barry Bathernak, 22 septembre 2011 - 11:38 .

[Aradace]

Ukki wrote...

Ha, it hurts doesn´t it?! Face it, kiddie-wheel is for those who need someone to tell them from what kind of answers to choose from. Wanna be funny? Choose this. Wanna be bad-ass? Choose this. You gotta admit it, thats the way it was designed for. No brainer, for kiddies.

Again, nice hyperbole.  And ironic considering who the insult is coming from.

[MacNille]

It's a mix bag. Sometimes a vocied Protagonist work great (as in Mass Effect), but other times they don't work so good (DA2).

[Darkly Tranquil]

Voiced is great on the first playthrough, but it sucks on the subsequently playthroughs when you have different characters that have the same voice as the previous one. Overall, I think it detracts from the replayability of the game.

[KLUME777]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Klume i say the answer to why you found the art style bland etc is answered in your own post and here's the selected part from said post:
"Also i played both on PS3, i never ever encountered problems where it couldn't process the game or any loading issues on either games."

The answer is because you played the console version, i play the PC version with 1920x1080 resolution with the High-Resolution texture pack and all DX11 options on.

My point is this lets take Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 take any random screenshot from the PS3/360 Version and compare to a likewise Screen from a PC version ran on a high end rig with all the detail options cranked up to the max and the differences are astounding the PC version screen makes the screenshot off the PS3/360 look like it came of a SNES or a Sega Megadrive from the 80's .

Thats graphics, not artstyle. I played DAO on PS3, i loved the artsyle, i didnt think it was bland, so its not console.

I have morrowind on PC. Its Graphics are sh!t, but its artsyle is great, very interesting and exotic.

Graphics do not = artstyle.


The only art i liked of DA2 was the Qunari, but i hate the fact that they were retconned, so i would rather the old design back (or at least the return of a hornless Qunari so it doesn't feel like they shoved it under the rug with a half-assed excuse).

Modifié par KLUME777, 22 septembre 2011 - 11:11 .

[jbrand2002uk]

True though the artstyle is limited by the graphical ability of both the engine and the system its intended to run on using the High Res Texture pack greatly improves the visuals of DA2 but of course not everyone has a PC powerful enough to play it for me it was the other way round i found DAO very bland in every department as for kirkwall the overall look suited it since as its supposed to be a city that was once part of a massive slaver empire as for the Qunari its a so-so look while I'm not entirely keen on the purplish skin the horns do make them stand out more from the other Humanoid races which was their intention maybe it backfired a little but its rather subjective

[RagingCyclone]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

True though the artstyle is limited by the graphical ability of both the engine and the system its intended to run on using the High Res Texture pack greatly improves the visuals of DA2 but of course not everyone has a PC powerful enough to play it for me it was the other way round i found DAO very bland in every department as for kirkwall the overall look suited it since as its supposed to be a city that was once part of a massive slaver empire as for the Qunari its a so-so look while I'm not entirely keen on the purplish skin the horns do make them stand out more from the other Humanoid races which was their intention maybe it backfired a little but its rather subjective

It's a matter of taste not equipment.  I run both games maxed resolution just as you are descibing and DAO still looks better imo.  The lighting is better in Origins, textures are overlayed on the 3d models better, ambient objects like banners and flags flow with the wind in Origins but not in DA2.  There are parts of DA2 that were done better than Origins. The areas of Darktown and the city were well designed to look differently, but the high res pack and DX11 actually helped to point out the flaws in the art style instead of making them look better. Contrary to what you may believe, DA2 actually looks better and feels more natural on the lower settings.

[jbrand2002uk]

it may well have been that things like the flags and banners moving with the breeze might have been omitted to keep the framerate higher for people who dont have high end games rigs like ourselves after all i have seen posts from one or 2 people who play DA2 on laptops and not all of them are very capable from my own observation generally the High Res pack improved alot of things and di highlight 1 or 2 flaws for me also but since as the engine is pretty much the same engine DAO used with a few tweeks i'm not all that suprised since DAO is getting on for 4 years old now but then again my computer is connected by a HDMI lead to a 32inch HD TV i use as my moniter flash git that i am lol

[LordKinoda]

Punctuation much ? I wouldn't expect anybody to thoroughly read any of your posts if you continue to write them like that. I sure didn't.

Well since as I'm one who likes this "kiddie " wheel god help most people if it makes me with an IQ of 175 simple minded for simply liking the change .

I don't want to be nitpicky or anything, but if this were true I hardly think you would write the way you do. That and I'd also think somebody with such a high IQ wouldn't go around flaunting the number, heh.





Anyway, how has this discussion shifted to graphics ? What does graphics, framerates, etc. have to do with voiced/silent PC ?

Ha, it hurts doesn´t it?! Face it, kiddie-wheel is for those who need someone to tell them from what kind of answers to choose from. Wanna be funny? Choose this. Wanna be bad-ass? Choose this. You gotta admit it, thats the way it was designed for. No brainer, for kiddies.

Oversimplifying a little methinks. It's not as if Origins had such a huge breadth of things to choose from either. The responses just didn't have emoticons to show you the meaning of the lines.

I love how people like to tout Origins dialog tree as some huge plethora of choice for your character. I've said this before in this thread, the responses are limited in Origins as well. You have what, 3-4 lines to choose from at any given point, not so different from DA2. There are technically "tones" for Origin lines too, you obviously just don't get to hear them because the character is silent.

Voiced is great on the first playthrough, but it sucks on the subsequently playthroughs when you have different characters that have the same voice as the previous one. Overall, I think it detracts from the replayability of the game.

This ties into what I just said, and have said before. It doesn't matter how many times you play Origins either, the character's lines are the same just as in DA2. Even if you had a different voice actor each time it wouldn't deviate too far from what was intended, because the NPC's can only respond to the protagonist's lines in a finite amount of ways. You can imagine in your head all these little personality quirks that the Warden has if you want, go for it, doesn't change the fact that the game WILL NOT and CAN NOT recognize them.

[KLUME777]

LordKinoda wrote...

Ha, it hurts doesn´t it?! Face it, kiddie-wheel is for those who need someone to tell them from what kind of answers to choose from. Wanna be funny? Choose this. Wanna be bad-ass? Choose this. You gotta admit it, thats the way it was designed for. No brainer, for kiddies.

Oversimplifying a little methinks. It's not as if Origins had such a huge breadth of things to choose from either. The responses just didn't have emoticons to show you the meaning of the lines.

I love how people like to tout Origins dialog tree as some huge plethora of choice for your character. I've said this before in this thread, the responses are limited in Origins as well. You have what, 3-4 lines to choose from at any given point, not so different from DA2. There are technically "tones" for Origin lines too, you obviously just don't get to hear them because the character is silent.

Origins doesn't need emoticons to show intent because you already know the line, its right in front of you. With a wheel, you can never be sure what is going to happen. And not to sound like an elitist, but the dialogue wheel can be refered to as a "kiddie wheel". A 12 year old plays it, just pick all the blue options and watch the cinematic, wanna be a badass, just pick all the red options, no reading required (because who reads these days! /s). With DAO you have to read and comprehend things to know wether its good or bad.

Also, DAO has more options because it has the freedom of more options. DA2 is confined to good, funny, bad, every single time, wheres DAO can have witty, heroic, condenscending, thoughtful etc. whatever the dialogue calls for. Origins is less limited.

Modifié par KLUME777, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:08 .

[The_11thDoctor]

Voiced. This shouldnt even need a thread. You want silent? Go play a nintendo game. There are tons of casual games with no budget for voice actors.

[xkg]

aang001 wrote...

Voiced. This shouldnt even need a thread. You want silent? Go play a nintendo game. There are tons of casual games with no budget for voice actors.

hahaha yep those pesky budget games with silent protagonist like for example New Vegas or upcoming Skyrim ... ehm ... "Nintendo" )))

[LordKinoda]

Origins doesn't need emoticons to show intent because you already know the line, its right in front of you.

Obviously, but the emoticons help those who are poor at inferring, which apparently is A LOT of people. Personally I could do without them, would prefer it actually.

With a wheel, you can never be sure what is going to happen.

^ Heh, remember what I said about being inadequate when it comes to inferring ? Guess you are included in that lot.

And not to sound like an elitist, but the dialogue wheel can be refered to as a "kiddie wheel". A 12 year old plays it, just pick all the blue options and watch the cinematic, wanna be a badass, just pick all the red options

But you DO sound like an elitist, no point in trying to say you are not. Why mince words ? And as far as a 12 year old playing the game, I could of easily played and comprehended this game just fine when I was 12, even though this game isn't intended for teenagers or children. Some people mature a little faster than others. I get your intent though, that the game is "dumbed down" so to speak.

Can't agree. Again I point to inferences. I can surmise easily enough the gist of what Hawke will say. That's what the paraphrases and the context of the conversations help you to figure out. Should I point to your lack of that particular skill as being intellectually inferior ? No, because it's both rude and I have no idea if that be the case. So why try to make it sound like people who actually prefer the voiced character, and by extension, the dialog wheel, as "kiddies" ? Is the dialog wheel perfect ? Of course not, but it's most definitely the "lesser of two evils".

no reading required (because who reads these days! /s). With DAO you have to read and comprehend things to know wether its good or bad.

I still read plenty. I have a very active imagination if do say so myself. But video games are a visual medium, it's not the same as with books. Yes you can still apply the same methods to help flesh out the silent character in your mind, but it just doesn't fit as well in the end. My character should be able to actually express emotion, both in voice and facial expression. Imagining that they do it when you can plainly SEE their blank slate stare is just awkward and immersion breaking. Of course I still say adding an option to import your own voice would be an ultimate boon, but it's probably just a pipe dream for now.

Also, DAO has more options because it has the freedom of more options. DA2 is confined to good, funny, bad, every single time, wheres DAO can have witty, heroic, condenscending, thoughtful etc. whatever the dialogue calls for. Origins is less limited.

DA2 has diplomatic, sarcastic, direct, helpful, charming, and aggresive. Hmm. That look like 3 options to you ? Origins only SEEMS less limited, when in reality they're not too far off from one another. I'll say again that the dialog wheel isn't perfect by no stretch of the imagination, it does need more work, but it's still better because it comes with a voiced character.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 24 septembre 2011 - 03:41 .

[Nette]

aang001 wrote...

Voiced. This shouldnt even need a thread. You want silent? Go play a nintendo game. There are tons of casual games with no budget for voice actors.

I couldn't agree more. I have played many games of both kinds and sure there's a lot of games with crappy voice-acting (and believe me, I've heard some of the worst there is...ugh it's painful to even remember some of those games ) but Biowares games certainly doesn't belong on that list. (And if you think so, go play some JRPGs like Baten Kaitos or some of the Tales-games out there, then come back and we'll see if you still think so.)
I don't get why some people whine about the voices in DA2. Bioware has some of the best voice-actors out there and they did a great job in DA2.
Anyway, with the lack of a voice and facial expressions, silent protagonists always seems less "real" to me. Hawke (and Shep) is thus easier to connect with than the silent warden ever was, you can accually see her reactions to the other characters and their actions and not just having to read about them. Just think how much more amazing DAO would have been if you could accually see and hear the emotions of the warden.

And the discussion about the dialouge-wheel: it's good for the flow of the conversations, having to read everything they say slows the flow of the game.

[Shadow6773]

The silent character felt more like "my character" while "Hawke" most def was not. The voice acting for Hawke, female in particular, was very good. However due to the conversation wheel and lack of options(can only show one "emotion" at a time) in responses I'd rather have a silent character who could convey clear answers and questions then a VA who is limited by budget thus restricting my conversation options and amount of conversations not only as the main character but with my companions as well.

[Nette]

Shadow6773 wrote...

The silent character felt more like "my character" while "Hawke" most def was not. The voice acting for Hawke, female in particular, was very good. However due to the conversation wheel and lack of options(can only show one "emotion" at a time) in responses I'd rather have a silent character who could convey clear answers and questions then a VA who is limited by budget thus restricting my conversation options and amount of conversations not only as the main character but with my companions as well.

I still felt that Hawke was my character, sure I felt that way about the warden to but I still feel...idk "more" for Hawke. I created them both how I wanted them but Hawke comes alive in a whole different way because she has a voice. And about the VA being limited by budget...sure some (most probably) games have those limitations but I don't see Bioware doing that anytime soon, their games has ALOT of dialouge in them and they're known for the great casting of VAs. I don't think they would mess that up just to save a few bucks.

And yes the conversation wheel could be better, (maybe they'll add the interrupt options they had in ME2 for DA3), but so could a lot of things. There will always be limitations even with a silent MC, I mean there's only so many options they can show each time you get to make a dialouge-choise. How many options would you like showing..6,10, a page? And what lack of options? The wheel usually gives you 4-6 choises to begin with and build on that, questions and continuations pop up depending on your choises (and I think "one emotion per line" is a better description). It just works more smoothly than the conversations of DAO. And if you think about it the wheel isn't that different from the conversation-options in DAO, it's just streamlined so you don't have to read the whole conversation but listen to it instead.

[Zubie]

Silent please.

Thanks.

[monclerjacken]

Kuhfell Vs
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Modifié par monclerjacken, 24 septembre 2011 - 05:36 .

[KLUME777]

[quote]LordKinoda wrote...

[quote]And not to sound like an elitist, but the dialogue wheel can be refered to as a "kiddie wheel". A 12 year old plays it, just pick all the blue options and watch the cinematic, wanna be a badass, just pick all the red options[/quote]

But you DO sound like an elitist, no point in trying to say you are not. Why mince words ? And as far as a 12 year old playing the game, I could of easily played and comprehended this game just fine when I was 12, even though this game isn't intended for teenagers or children. Some people mature a little faster than others. I get your intent though, that the game is "dumbed down" so to speak.

Can't agree. Again I point to inferences. I can surmise easily enough the gist of what Hawke will say. That's what the paraphrases and the context of the conversations help you to figure out. Should I point to your lack of that particular skill as being intellectually inferior ? No, because it's both rude and I have no idea if that be the case. So why try to make it sound like people who actually prefer the voiced character, and by extension, the dialog wheel, as "kiddies" ? Is the dialog wheel perfect ? Of course not, but it's most definitely the "lesser of two evils".

[/quote]

I don't like the word "kiddie wheel" as it just sounds like an elitist ****** thing to say (hence why i put it in speech marks). What im trying to get at though is the dialogue wheel allows you to skip through and press all the blue=win buttons without reading. You know your character is going to win and be good, because its blue (or be badass with red). With the dialogue tree, you have to actually read what is going on to understand what will happen. Yes, 12 year olds are not stupid, but thats not what im trying to say, its that the dialogue wheel can just be easily skipped through with no consequences because you watch the cinematic after pressing the blue option. It requires little or no thought. In DAO, since there is no top=good, middle=funny, bottom=bad, you cant just skip through unless you want to make your character schizophrenic, as well as having no idea what you just said.


[quote]Also, DAO has more options because it has the freedom of more options. DA2 is confined to good, funny, bad, every single time, wheres DAO can have witty, heroic, condenscending, thoughtful etc. whatever the dialogue calls for. Origins is less limited.[/quote]

DA2 has diplomatic, sarcastic, direct, helpful, charming, and aggresive. Hmm. That look like 3 options to you ? Origins only SEEMS less limited, when in reality they're not too far off from one another. I'll say again that the dialog wheel isn't perfect by no stretch of the imagination, it does need more work, but it's still better because it comes with a voiced character.[/quote]

Even so, thats 6 intents. DAO has infinite intents, because it isn't limited to having a set intent with an emoticon, just whatever the conversation calls for, absolute freedom. Of coarse, only a maximum of 6 options can be said, but the 3-6 lines with intent in this part of the cvonvetsation are entirely different in the next part of the conversation, and so on. DA2 has only 6 to work with, and its mostly just good, funny, bad. I disliked the sarcastic intent because it felt like it was too shoehorned and forced, just because they have an intent option to be funny there. In DAO, the funny lines didn't at all feel forced or shoehorned to me.

[Barry Bathernak]

1: even the best v.a.'s cant make bad writing good,it doesn't matter how good you are if your lines are not good than they're not good.
2:the reason the wheel is so bad is because of the paraphrasing so you never know what the herpes your about to say, since your option could say "no thanks" and hawke will go "i do not want that so GOOD DAY SIR!" you could see how thats bad even if your blind.

Modifié par Barry Bathernak, 25 septembre 2011 - 02:19 .

[Zanallen]

KLUME777 wrote...

Even so, thats 6 intents. DAO has infinite intents, because it isn't limited to having a set intent with an emoticon, just whatever the conversation calls for, absolute freedom. Of coarse, only a maximum of 6 options can be said, but the 3-6 lines with intent in this part of the cvonvetsation are entirely different in the next part of the conversation, and so on. DA2 has only 6 to work with, and its mostly just good, funny, bad. I disliked the sarcastic intent because it felt like it was too shoehorned and forced, just because they have an intent option to be funny there. In DAO, the funny lines didn't at all feel forced or shoehorned to me.

I would argue that each dialogue option in DA:O had an implied intent. You might want to roleplay the line as being said one way or the other, but the writer had a clear tone and intent in mind when he wrote the line and that intent and tone are matched by the corresponding NPC response. In fact, it has been shown before that a vast number of the conversations in DA:O can be broken down to the three primary tones.

[Pasquale1234]

Nette wrote...
I still felt that Hawke was my character, sure I felt that way about the warden to but I still feel...idk "more" for Hawke. I created them both how I wanted them but Hawke comes alive in a whole different way because she has a voice. And about the VA being limited by budget...sure some (most probably) games have those limitations but I don't see Bioware doing that anytime soon, their games has ALOT of dialouge in them and they're known for the great casting of VAs. I don't think they would mess that up just to save a few bucks.

For many of us who prefer the non-voiced protagonist, it has nothing to do with the quality of the VA.  It has everything to do with role-playing versus watching an interactive movie.  The more I see and hear the protag on the screen, the less I am able to see the world through her eyes and put myself in her shoes.  Watching a movie is a very different experience from actually taking part in one (role-playing).

Replayability is also a factor, but then I guess that would always be a factor with a preset character like Hawke.  The point is, every single Hawke you might want to try to play will deliver the same line in exactly the same way as any other Hawke who delivered that line.

The Warden has often been called a blank slate - which, to me, is a very good thing.  It means that I can define a character concept and see the world, other characters, events, the entire journey - through the eyes of that character.  That, to me, is what role-playing is all about.

That said, I do understand that some people really do prefer to watch and hear the protag acting out everything on screen.  It is an entirely different experience than role-playing, imho.