987 réponses à ce sujet

[wsandista]

In Exile wrote...

Cryocore wrote...

All I see from the 'voiced' proponents are some folk without an imagination. Its not a judgement but seriously I dont see what the issue is with going silent. It just seems like people cant cope with not having everything presented to them.

That's funny, because from "silent" proponets I see the same thing. Such a lack of imagination that people need everything but the pitch of a line to be able to exercise their imagination.

Doesn't it frustrate you to have a pre-written line? A pre-written response to that line? A character who can react only one 1-2 ways at the end of a cut-scene?

Is your imagination that limited?

I hate this argument, so so much.

Someone needs a timeout

You trivialize the silent protagonist argument you know, that argument is that the player has the freedom to interpret what is not explicitly stated however they want.

Judging from your statements you believe if something isn't explicitly stated it did not happen. that completely nullifies imagination you know.

[hussey 92]

I prefer silent.

Silent PC's tend to have more dialogue options. With the voiced PC in DA2 you were pretty much limited to three options, be nice, be sarcastic or be a dick and they would all lead to the same conclusion

[tankdogg937]

Definitely prefer my character have a voice. It took me about half a play through to get passed the "mute" Warden in DAO. Not only is he a mute but devoid of any semblance of emotion. When Leliana sings he just stares blankly like he's deaf as well as tongue-less. All I wanted to do was tell her how amazing her voice was.

Of course I can see the other side of the coin. Sure you can interpret how your character would say the lines and it allows you to put yourself in your characters shoes.

It really doesn't matter at the end of the day. The lines are already there whether someone else is voicing them or not.

[CSly]

Silent

[Malsumis]

This topic is irrelevant now, Gaider has already made biowares choice clear. Voiced PC.

[DreamerM]

I'm fine either way, as long as my character actually SAYS what I intended him/her to say rather then something kinda not really similarish kind of. This frustrated me in DA2 SO MUCH.

[Agent_Dark_]

Malsumis wrote...

This topic is irrelevant now, Gaider has already made biowares choice clear. Voiced PC.

As it should be. 

[deathadder99]

Remove dialogue wheel and give back race selection and I don't really care but I'd prefer silent(not gonna happen)

[hussey 92]

deathadder99 wrote...

Remove dialogue wheel and give back race selection and I don't really care but I'd prefer silent(not gonna happen)

^This

[Sylvius the Mad]

Malsumis wrote...

This topic is irrelevant now, Gaider has already made biowares choice clear. Voiced PC.

The topic is never irrelevant.  David's pronouncement applies only to the immediate future.

They've changed it once.  They can change it again.

[Iosev]

It depends on the game, but when the protagonist is part of a focused narrative and has to participate in a tremendous amount of dialogue (particularly when there is an emphasis on the protagonist building and maintaining relationships with companions), I personally prefer a voiced protagonist, simply because I like to see and hear the protagonist participate in the dialogue (emphasis on the "dia-").

I prefer the silent protagonist when the game is more about immersing the player in a fully-realized game world (where the developers' emphasis is more on exploration, and less on story). For example, in Dark Souls, I'm perfectly fine with the silent protagonist because the majority of the gameplay revolves around your actions (excluding a few, simple dialogue choices).  I personally think that the lack of dialogue options in Dark Souls is a good example of roleplaying through sheer imagination, rather than merely selecting between a few prewritten lines like in DA:O.

Similarly, I'm fine with the silent protagonist in Skyrim because while there are countless amounts of NPCs that speak to you, the majority of the "conversations" in the game are more about informing the player about characters, places, and quests, and not really about your character having a back-and-forth dialogue.

Modifié par arcelonious, 09 mai 2012 - 08:45 .

[DreamerM]

Again, I just want my character to say what I told them to. This "pick a vague topic for character to expand upon in way you might or might not agree with" is why I saved before every DA2 conversation so I wouldn't screw up being the sort of character I actually wanted to be.

[Malsumis]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The topic is never irrelevant.  David's pronouncement applies only to the immediate future.

They've changed it once.  They can change it again.

Doubtful, if it was going to revert, it would be in DA3.

We're stuck with voiced PC.

[Aetika]

Well, it also depends on voice actors. For example, I like both acting for Commander Shepard, so I have no problem with that concept in Mass Effect. In DAO, I love how many different responses you can choose from and how rich is emotional range of those responses. DA2 on the other hand has taken the variety in dialogue away and offered me very average and uncaptivating (at least I feel it that way) voice performance. So for Dragon Age, I prefer silent protagonist.

[HiroVoid]

Malsumis wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The topic is never irrelevant.  David's pronouncement applies only to the immediate future.

They've changed it once.  They can change it again.

We're stuck with voiced PC.

Well, if DA3 tanks then maybe.  Of course, that could possibly end up with scrapping the DA universe as a whole.

[AkiKishi]

I finally got around to playing Witcher2 yesterday (for more than 10 minutes) after finally getting through Xenoblade after 164 hours.

At one point someone says something and the paraphrase says "sorry" the actual dialogue is "F**k you"!
Not really what I was expecting, but still rather appropriate for Geralt in the situation he was in.
This only works because Geralt is Geralt. Had it been a character I had created, that would have been a bit of a problem...

Cinematic games and voiced PCs kind of go together, just like watching a silent movie is a bit of an odd experience today.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 mai 2012 - 10:10 .

[In Exile]

wsandista wrote...
Someone needs a timeout

You trivialize the silent protagonist argument you know, that argument is that the player has the freedom to interpret what is not explicitly stated however they want.

Judging from your statements you believe if something isn't explicitly stated it did not happen. that completely nullifies imagination you know.

I think you're free to imagine whatever you want. I just think that pretending like it's some mark of superior genius that you're inventing content for yourself is ridiculous, and I'm tired of the self-contradulatory posts about the master race of players that like to write fan-fiction.

Not to mention that this imagination argument is super selective. What happens between Act I and II is totally ambiguous, but you don't see this forum praise Bioware for their strong support of imagination by giving absolutely no in-game indication of what happens to Hawke.

[vixvicco]

I like both if done well. I used to prefer silent, but I agree that they seem emotionless. In terms of immersion, silent. But in terms of full quality, voiced. It's just when they do voiced, you get a sense of some kind of pre-existing personality, despite whatever choices you make, i.e. Hawke. No matter what I did, Hawke seemed greedy and boring.

[Evamitchelle]

I'm surprised that the poll shows the majority of people prefers a voiced protagonist. Maybe the silent PC supporters are just more vocal about it (sorry bad joke). I used to like silent well enough but I couldn't do without voiced now. It helps that I really like Lady Hawke's VO in DA2.

[Windninja47]

There's kind of a pattern here. Many people who want a silent PC like to pretend that it's them in that character's place and/or imagine how that character is acting even if it doesn't show on screen.

On the other hand many people who want a voiced PC want the PC to be a character in his/her own.

I personally prefer voiced- I am not Hawke, I don't buy these games to imagine things, I buy them to get a story.

[wsandista]

Windninja47 wrote...

There's kind of a pattern here. Many people who want a silent PC like to pretend that it's them in that character's place and/or imagine how that character is acting even if it doesn't show on screen.

That is generally what is considered role-playing.

On the other hand many people who want a voiced PC want the PC to be a character in his/her own.

I personally prefer voiced- I am not Hawke, I don't buy these games to imagine things, I buy them to get a story.

Well I buy RPGs to role-play a character.

I believe to please both groups they should do something like this. Use the dialogue system in DAO(full text) with an option to turn off the voiced PC. Have someway to connote tone (I personally think a tone wheel in the corner would work) when playing with a voiced PC. Not only will this please the silent PC side, but the WTF moments when playing a voiced PC will decrease, since they know what will be said beforehand.

Would this solution work for you?

[Maria Caliban]

wsandista wrote...

Windninja47 wrote...

There's kind of a pattern here. Many people who want a silent PC like to pretend that it's them in that character's place and/or imagine how that character is acting even if it doesn't show on screen.

That is generally what is considered role-playing.

No, it's not. "The PC is me" is how some people role-play but I'd argue that what is generally considered RPing involves the PC being someone other than yourself.

[Sutekh]

[quote]wsandista wrote...

[quote]Windninja47 wrote...

There's kind of a pattern here. Many people who want a silent PC like to pretend that it's them in that character's place and/or imagine how that character is acting even if it doesn't show on screen.[/quote]

That is generally what is considered role-playing.[/quote][/quote]Nope. That's self-insert. A form of roleplaying, if you will, but the "role" in "roleplaying" means that you deal with another persona than yourself. Roughly, you don't make the character act as though they were you, but you act as though you were them (virtually). You play a role.

You can have a say in the char's personality - more or less depending on context, medium, predefinition etc... - and that definition can incidentally be "they think / act just like me", but the latter isn't what it's about.

[In Exile]

Sutekh wrote...
Nope. That's self-insert. A form of roleplaying, if you will, but the "role" in "roleplaying" means that you deal with another persona than yourself. Roughly, you don't make the character act as though they were you, but you act as though you were them (virtually). You play a role.

You can have a say in the char's personality - more or less depending on context, medium, predefinition etc... - and that definition can incidentally be "they think / act just like me", but the latter isn't what it's about.

More importantly, there are many elements to a self-insert.

I couldn't have a "self-insert" without VO, because VO opens up the range of actions open the PC. You go from passive observer (e.g. KoTOR and DA:O) to actively driving the scenes (Witcher 1-2, Alpha Protocol).

You don't need a fixed protagonist to have an active protagonist, but so long as actions are "up-to-the-imagination" and we now have the technoloy to display the characters doing more than just standing around as sprites, the PC has to become a spectator to work with the animations.

Even in a game that's largely without cinematics (e.g. Skyrim) you still need the player to just be a background piece without voice & various actions open to the player.

Modifié par In Exile, 13 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[AkiKishi]

[quote]Sutekh wrote...

[quote]wsandista wrote...

[quote]Windninja47 wrote...

There's kind of a pattern here. Many people who want a silent PC like to pretend that it's them in that character's place and/or imagine how that character is acting even if it doesn't show on screen.[/quote]

That is generally what is considered role-playing.[/quote][/quote]Nope. That's self-insert. A form of roleplaying, if you will, but the "role" in "roleplaying" means that you deal with another persona than yourself. Roughly, you don't make the character act as though they were you, but you act as though you were them (virtually). You play a role.

You can have a say in the char's personality - more or less depending on context, medium, predefinition etc... - and that definition can incidentally be "they think / act just like me", but the latter isn't what it's about.
[/quote]

There is a difference between roleplaying and just picking the options you fancy and here lies the crux of the difference between the silent protagonist and the voiced (at least in regard to design). Games with silent protagonists don't write stories for a specific character, you can get wrong options. Options that are just not suited for character you have created. The skill element (if you want to call it that) is in playing the character and keeping character integrity even when it's not the best the option.
With a voiced protagonist since the lines are written for the character specifically, there is no wrong option. Anything works. You can still shape the characters actions, but you don't need backgrounds and personalities, that's all done for you.

If you want to create and play a character, less is definately more. If you want to guide a character through the story in the way you choose, voiced works just as well, if not better.
The problem with DA2 and to a lesser extent DA is that you have two contradictory designs pulling in opposite directions.

The only real difference between something like Witcher 2 and DA2 is in DA2 you can alter the characters look and assign a first name (outside of gender choice) both of those options are trivial and have no impact on the game.
Personally I can't see the point of character ownership in a cinematic game since it will invariably be contradicted.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 13 mai 2012 - 02:52 .