987 réponses à ce sujet

[Esbatty]

If I want a Silent protagonist I'll play Legend of Zelda or Portal, if I want to roleplay a character then I'd like them to have a voice to share in the conversations.

[Xewaka]

As long as voice is linked to paraphrases and silent is not, I'll choose silent.

[Aargh12]

Silent all the way - Voice works for me only in games with set protagonists like Adam Jenses or Geralt. If I wanted cinematic experience I would play Call of Duty not a game that is supposed to be a cRPG.

[raven_corrino]

I like people who talk, makes me feel that you're part of the conversation. Felt strange that the Warden was always quiet except when in battle. Like he's just staring blankly at the conversor and making faces to show if he agrees or not, is happy or not. So yes prefer voiced protagonist.

[KLUME777]

To me, the thing i like most to do in RPG's is to imagine myself in the game, that i am the PC. Voiced protagonist does not allow for this at all. So just that there is reason enough for me to greatly dislike voice, as well as all the other limitations that come with voiced PC's.

[Hello There]

I have to say I am (pleasently) surprised with these poll results.

I had assumed that there were more people that like voice protagonist, but this does not seem the case. Perhaps if we get vocal enough, we may even persuade Bioware to turn Dragon Age back (as its only fair. The voiced fans have Mass Effect, us silent fans should have Dragon Age, especially since it was meant to be the successor to Baldurs Gate).

Well done, BSN!

[alex90c]

Hello There wrote...

I have to say I am (pleasently) surprised with these poll results.

I had assumed that there were more people that like voice protagonist, but this does not seem the case. Perhaps if we get vocal enough, we may even persuade Bioware to turn Dragon Age back (as its only fair. The voiced fans have Mass Effect, us silent fans should have Dragon Age, especially since it was meant to be the successor to Baldurs Gate).

Well done, BSN!

We can moan and b*tch all we want, Bioware is moving forward with a voiced protagonist, end of. (line)

[AngryFrozenWater]

Looks like 50% to me. Whatever BW does will make the other 50% unhappy.

[KLUME777]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Looks like 50% to me. Whatever BW does will make the other 50% unhappy.

Better them than us 

[nitefyre410]

Voiced

The silent protaganist felt like me picking the dialogue of the other character and not a conversation.

[andraip]

Hello There wrote...

I have to say I am (pleasently) surprised with these poll results.

I had assumed that there were more people that like voice protagonist, but this does not seem the case. Perhaps if we get vocal enough, we may even persuade Bioware to turn Dragon Age back (as its only fair. The voiced fans have Mass Effect, us silent fans should have Dragon Age, especially since it was meant to be the successor to Baldurs Gate).

Well done, BSN!

Well Bioware is going to voiced.

Also this are "only" 205 votes, I don't guess this will persuade BioWare.

Just a sidenote, many of the people who have chosen silent did so 'cause they want different races and origins, with is quite impossible (money) with voiced. [edit] So it's more a discussion of origins + races vs voiced [/edit]

As for the "Since Mass Effect is for voiced fans Dragon Age should be for silent", there isn't much logic behind this... I could also say "Dragon Age is for the rpg fans so Mass Effect has to be an FPS for the call of duty crowd", one thing isn't related to the other.

and all this is just my opinion.

Modifié par andraip, 07 août 2011 - 12:57 .

[Robhuzz]

Huntress wrote...

I like voiced, Fhawke was excellent and I hope the next FemalePC get her voice!

Indeed, particularly sarcastic LadyHawke was awesome. 

On topic: Voiced protagonist all the way, as long as a good VO is hired. I'd rather have a silent protagonist than one who talks like he/she is uninspired or even bored. I feel a good VO adds so much life to a character I wouldn't ever go back to silent protagonists.

As a side note: BW's new Star Wars MMO has only voiced protagonists, and this is a game of immense scale. Whatever people may think of it, this shows in BioWare games, voiced protagonists are staying.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 07 août 2011 - 12:54 .

[xkg]

andraip wrote...
As for the "Since Mass Effect is for voiced fans Dragon Age should be for silent", there isn't much logic behind this... I could also say "Dragon Age is for the rpg fans so Mass Effect has to be an FPS for the call of duty crowd", one thing isn't related to the other.

But Dragon Age already had silent protagonist and was quite successful.
Mass Effect on the other hand never was FPS for call of duty crowd. It was and is Action Rpg with FPS combat mechanics.
Your idea would require to redesign entire ME game completely (similar to DAO->DA2 ).
Going back to something that was done already is much simpler.

So imo, your analogy is not valid at all.

[andraip]

xkg wrote...

But Dragon Age already had silent protagonist and was quite successful.
Mass Effect on the other hand never was FPS for call of duty crowd. It was and is Action Rpg with FPS combat mechanics.
Your idea would require to redesign entire ME game completely (similar to DAO->DA2 ).
Going back to something that was done already is much simpler.

So imo, your analogy is not valid at all.

Yes you are right.

What I meant was that Mass Effect being voiced isn't a reason for Dragon Age 3 beeing silent.

There are good reasons for DA3 being silent, like having multiple races and origins or DAO selling well despite having silent protagonist (and other games to like Fallout or Oblivion, and Skyrim won't have voiced either), but ME being voiced isn't.

However there are also good reasons for DA3 beeing voiced, since DA2 was and it would be a redesign, again. And a lot of people liked DA2, besides Bioware wants to give their games a better cinematic experience, so I guess it will be voiced

Modifié par andraip, 07 août 2011 - 01:51 .

[Zjarcal]

Hello There wrote...

I have to say I am (pleasently) surprised with these poll results.

I had assumed that there were more people that like voice protagonist, but this does not seem the case. Perhaps if we get vocal enough, we may even persuade Bioware to turn Dragon Age back (as its only fair. The voiced fans have Mass Effect, us silent fans should have Dragon Age, especially since it was meant to be the successor to Baldurs Gate).

Well done, BSN!

1. Voiced is still winning (even if it's by a small margin)

2. A 50/50 divided poll consisting of little over 200 users is not only NOT a significant sample, but it won't persuade anyone to change a set course.

[nitefyre410]

andraip wrote...

xkg wrote...

But Dragon Age already had silent protagonist and was quite successful.
Mass Effect on the other hand never was FPS for call of duty crowd. It was and is Action Rpg with FPS combat mechanics.
Your idea would require to redesign entire ME game completely (similar to DAO->DA2 ).
Going back to something that was done already is much simpler.

So imo, your analogy is not valid at all.

Yes you are right.

What I meant was that Mass Effect being voiced isn't a reason for Dragon Age 3 beeing silent.

There are good reasons for DA3 being silent, like having multiple races and origins or DAO selling well despite having silent protagonist (and other games to like Fallout or Oblivion, and Skyrim won't have voiced either), but ME being voiced isn't.

However there are also good reasons for DA3 beeing voiced, since DA2 was and it would be a redesign, again. And a lot of people liked DA2, besides Bioware wants to give their games a better cinematic experience, so I guess it will be voiced

DA:O with silent  protaganist and selling is some what  of a moot  point -  IMO   If  Bioware went back  that would be flip floping  and in inconsistent which would hurt the series more  just for consistency.   They have to pick a direction  espiecally with some thing  as important as the Main Character.  Cause if  they go back and forth  like they will be in the same situation they are now.  Long lasting sucussful series have two things in common -  great development and consistency.  Legend of  Zelda and Mario are  good examples.   If they were  going stick with Origins style they should have just stuck with it for DA 2 but jumping back and forth  is a not a good way to build a series.  

[In Exile]

[quote]erynnar wrote...
Apparently ambiguous to you, I get that. And others who prefer a voiced protag. Again, is it so hard to believe, that it isn't all that ambiguous to me or those of us who don't like a voiced protag?[/quote]

Yes. Because "I pick my own tone and I am the director" is very different from "I know it's impossible to pick my own tone and I try to identify the tone the writers predetermined for me." 

That's what I'm challenging.


[quote]I have had no problems playing DAO and getting which dialogue choice may get me what response, or what personality. Why does that cause such incredulity to you? [/quote]

Per the above. There is a difference between you thinking you can pick your own tone, and you knowing the predetermined tone and behaviour that the writers created.


[quote]I rarely have odd responses from NPCs. Is it 100 %? Nope. But I have a lot less "surprise" than with the voiced protag and the stupidly paraphrased choiceds on DA2. Do I find it difficult that some people navigated it better than me? Nope. Obviously, people did. Good on them. I don't demand that they teach me their techinques in such  durogatory tone as if it just defies all belief. They do, I don't. I did fine in DAO, you didn't. Sorry. [/quote]

No; you use a derogatory tone when you describe the personality tones. It's snark for snark, silly. 

[quote]mrcrusty wrote...

Unless you've got emergent gameplay, but that's another aspect of things you don't like.
[/quote]

What do you mean? There's no such thing as "emergent" gameplay. It's impossible in games. 

[quote]J.C. Blade wrote...
I do not think that. We all have characters that don't really make sense for the game's story but we still want to guide them through it. If I absolutely want to play a Warden who doesn't want to be one then I'll switch off the machine after joining and assume she died.[/quote]

What does this have to do with the original point I responded to?

[quote]You're putting dialogue up again and I wasn't taking about that at all. I'm saying how the game will show three, well four, crucial events in Hawke's life and tell the player to Lego the rest but only so long it doesn't contradict those key moments. I know it sounds similar to what you essentially do with the silent protagonist but it isn't. Creating background for a silent protagonist is not the same as filling those monstrous gaps within the game itself. At least not for me.[/quote]

But fans of silent VO argue precisely for this. That in conversation, you fill in the blanks (because there are blanks). 

And DA:O was the same way as DA2, just apparently over a shorter scale. Wynne talks about "months" that went by during your quest. But do you see these months? Do you even see more than a few days pass? 

I appreciate that you really, really disliked DA2's way of handling this. But it seems to me that the writers left these games without described precisely to allow people to "fill-in-the-blanks" which they've argued is something really important to RP for them.

[quote]In DAO I have only to imagine and create the background and personality of a single character and how that will affect choices within that one year time span of the game - will she or won't she save the kid in Redcliff for example. [/quote]

I appreciate that, like I said. But people will argue that in DA:O you had to do much more (e.g. imagine side conversations with NPCs in your party, and that's the fun of an RPG).

[quote]In DA2 I have to create Hawke’s life in Lothering and her sentiments towards her family - fair enough, it is the beginning of your character; then Hawke’s first year in Kirkwall, how it went and what made her reach the top, the missions, the people she met; then those three years after deep roads, then the next 3… 

If I were actually writing a fanfiction story about Hawke all this blankness would be excellent. [/quote]

No, you don't. No more than you have to describe what it was that happened to the Warden while travelling from Denerim to Orzammar or Haven. Did Alistair have fun? How did they eat? What did Sandal do? Was Morrigain complaining about how useless the trip was? What about Sten?

[quote]xkg wrote...

Why are we even discussing it. Those who can't immerse themselves while playing silent protagonist ... well RPGs aren't for them. Because that how it is in RL.[/quote]

In RL you can't hear your own voice? In RL you have to pick from 3-5 predetermined placards that define what you are going to say?

[quote]While playing live session you can hear the voice of other players and NPCs (spoken by the gamemaster) but you can't hear yours.[/quote]

Again, you can't hear your own voice? What?

[quote]If you can't do it in the computer game you can't do it in RL.[/quote]

....Wait, what? This makes even less sense than the stuff before.

[quote]So why bother with cRPGs in the first place. There are some limitations like - I can't say whatever I want, I can't do whatever I want - that can't be implemented in computer version - but if we change every aspect of real PnP RPGs just for sake of changes - that is not RPG anymore. In fact it is getting closer and closer to some cinematic adventure games.[/quote]

Who cares what a PnP RPG is like? 

Modifié par In Exile, 07 août 2011 - 02:10 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

http://en.wikipedia....ergent_gameplay

To add to that, combat is a form of semi-emergent gameplay.

Also, I would like to think that since the entire point of the genre is to try and emulate PnP games, it would be pretty important in you know, influencing the genre.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 07 août 2011 - 02:24 .

[In Exile]

mrcrusty wrote...
Also, I would like to think that since the entire point of the genre is to try and emulate PnP games, it would be pretty important in you know, influencing the genre.

Maybe the point was to emulate PnP, a long time ago (say in the mid 80s by SSI). That doesn't matter. cRPGs are their won genre now, and should respect their own conventions. 

A single player RPG is already the antithesis of PnP. 

Re: Emergence

I'm aware of what the phenomenon means - but I don't see how this is possible in an RPG. Any meaningful RPG feature (where it's dialogue or decision) has to be pre-scripted. Maybe a game lets you kill Caesar 15 different ways... but the only changes that will result from Caesar being killed are those that are pre-scripted by the writers. 

It's not 'emergent' if it's all in your head. Otherwise something like force field + storm of the century in DA:O would be 'emergent' but not really meaningful RP gameplay. 

Modifié par In Exile, 07 août 2011 - 02:26 .

[Babli]

I just repeat myself from other thread.

Silent protagonist doesnt work nowadays. Its thing of the past and has no future. True Story.

Modifié par Babli, 07 août 2011 - 02:30 .

[elys]

I enjoy voiced Protagonist.

I would love however to be able to have choice between few different type of voices at character creation. But I know this won't happen due to the voice acting requirements.

Now maybe the next character editor coupled with an adequate sound engine could include voice morphing, the same way the character editor uses face morphes  

Modifié par elys, 07 août 2011 - 02:33 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Emergent gameplay =/= Emergent narrative. The gameplay allows for huge variations in what you experience through the use of otherwise unscripted mechanics like faction reputation, disguises, etc.

So, to you, the act of actually playing is unimportant?

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...
Maybe the point was to emulate PnP, a long time ago (say in the mid 80s by SSI). That doesn't matter. cRPGs are their won genre now, and should respect their own conventions.

Wait. RPGs don't have to be RPGs anymore? How does that even make sense?

[In Exile]

mrcrusty wrote...

Emergent gameplay =/= Emergent narrative. The gameplay allows for huge variations in what you experience through the use of otherwise unscripted mechanics like faction reputation, disguises, etc.

The faction mechanics are scripted. There are set events that happen at certain thresholds. If you want to argue that there are potentally unique outcomes for players based on different facton scores + disguises, I'll certainly agree with you there... but that has nothing to do with role-playing.

It says nothing about me that some particular consequence of events happened... because that consequence is perfectly viable for multiple characters. 

So, to you, the act of actually playing is unimportant?

No. But head-cannon is unimportant. What matters is what you can do, and how the game reacts to what you can do. 

Xewaka wrote...

Wait. RPGs don't have to be RPGs anymore? How does that even make sense?

It doesn't. That's not what I said. I said that a cRPG is not a PnP RPG.We can apply the very simple rule of ''if they don't have the same name, they are likely not the same thing'' to avoid the quandry that you're in. 

Modifié par In Exile, 07 août 2011 - 02:46 .

[R0vena]

I don't mind silent protagonist, but prefer the voiced one.