23 réponses à ce sujet

[Ballzz]

I'm trying to get started on this game but find the group "tactics" more than a little frustrating. With the default setting the party charges ahead when anything is in sight..setting off traps before I can disarm them and generally just not being very smart. I tried to add custom tactics and my party went from doing questionable things in combat to just standing there doing nothing unless I switch and control them myself. The interface seems pretty straight forward as far as the script language (set condition and action) so it's a mystery to me why they don't seem to do anything in combat. I'm sure that I'm just missing something but not sure what.

I really prefer solo play and don't have much desire in micro-managing a party. I would love to set up the party tactics to play a mostly support type role where they stay close to me, only attack when attacked (or when I'm attacked), heal as necessary and never chase after anything. I would think those tactics would be rather simple to set up if I could figure out what I'm doing wrong.

I have tried searching for some tactics ideas to set this up without much luck. Most of the tactics discussions I have found are for PC and none really even talk about them not working at all. Even this forum only has 1 Xbox 360 section for "technical support" but nothing for gameplay?

[Simulacrum]

Yes, same problem with me. Generally the only thing I can find use for it is with healing. It's extremely annoying how my fighters charge in when I don't want them to.

I have the PC version though.

Modifié par Simulacrum, 21 novembre 2009 - 12:14 .

[ZOlllBIE]

make sure theyre not set to aggresive

[DAFntc]

I have the standing around issue as well. Even when I target an enemy and command use of my blood magic (from the DLC) he still sometimes just stands there. In critical moments in the fight which may mean life or death it drives me MAD!



The game is outstanding, IMO it is perhapes so good that these minor issues agitate, since it could have been perfection!

[PatT2]

Set your tank to aggressive. Your dps rogue too, if you have one. Set your healer to cautious. Set yourself any way you want. Or not...



Then...use the "hold position" command to set traps or disable them before they run in. The minute my rogue (party member, I'm a mage) yells "trap just ahead" I grab control of the rogue, Put "hold position" on the party, then run in and disable the traps. Have the healer shield them from damage if possible. Have the rogue use stealth if they have it. You can disable them in combat too.



There are "behavior" settings and "tactics" settings. Use both.

[Ballzz]

What is this "hold position" you speak of?

[Pietruch]

in your wheel under left trigger move to advanced and there you can find hold position I think

[mosti]

If you read through all the options and the game booklet you will realize there are different options for how you would like certain members to act.

There is a behavior menu at the top of the tactics screen which controls how the character approaches combat.

By pressing x while the behavior menu is selected, this will give you a description of the behaviour selected.

[Ballzz]

Thanks for the responses. I found the hold position so that works ok I guess.



To mosti..I saw that and the problem I had was when I changed the behavior from anything besides "default" the party members would do nothing...just stand there, even with tactics set up. That was my problem and still not sure why that was happening.



I have since found that just using "default" behavior + one of the presets for each party member is working well enough so stopped messing with it.

[Taiko Roshi]

Ballzz wrote...

Thanks for the responses. I found the hold position so that works ok I guess.

To mosti..I saw that and the problem I had was when I changed the behavior from anything besides "default" the party members would do nothing...just stand there, even with tactics set up. That was my problem and still not sure why that was happening.

I have since found that just using "default" behavior + one of the presets for each party member is working well enough so stopped messing with it.

Tactics slot take a lot of working out. You can make it as basic as you want or as nuanced as you want. The best thing to do is take the time to sit down and read through ALL of the options provided. Believe me, I'm just about to start nightmare and I now can set up the more advanced tactic options. It makes a huge difference to game play. Fights that where once very hard, now are a breeze. All you need to do is experiment with the options understand what does what and when and you will not regret it. The tactics options is the BEST thing going for this game. I hope they have them in ME 2.

Don't worry, at first I was in the same boat. Countless times I would be wondering why the **** is my mage just standing there, or how come my tank is not leading the charge and taking aggro. You need to sit down and read all of the options and work out your talents/builds/tactic slot options by trial and error. Its a lot of fun and once you get the hang of it the game kicks over to a whole new level of complexity tactically.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 22 novembre 2009 - 10:55 .

[jerms510]

I eventually got the tactics dialed in, but i noticed once I upped the difficulty, none of the mobs go for the tank anymore. They come right at me on both my rogue and my mage, before I do anything at all. They also enjoy it when I lob a fireball at them first thing, and then I have to run around like a headless chicken to not get smushed.

[Orca Orcinus]

I am not necessarily as frustrated by the Tactics limitations as I am by trying to cast an AoE spell like Sleep - only to see Morrigan run up to the mob first before casting. (She being set to "ranged' behaviour with a custom Tactic set.) Still, there are several oddities that I found in the Tactics array. Sometimes 'ranged' behaviour was acting like 'defensive' behaviour, with my archer and mage following the character with the current focus - decidedly frustrating. It seems to be a spontaneous bug. Maybe wiping the HD cache and starting the game up again with the Tactics already set was able to fix it, since it hasn't bothered me recently. I thought I had a great set-up for my rogue, who uses archery and daggers in equal measure. Imagine my surprise when I learned that I could not save more than one set of 'custom' (read 'Intelligent') tactics. This includes just making use of the added Tactics settings that are unlocked under the defaults as the characters level up. Then, my horror was increased when I discovered selecting a new set of default Tactics (Scrapper) would completely over-write the custom Tactics, even if I don't change a single thing. Now I spend more time than anyone should simply rebuilding the custom tactics array everytime I get jumped in close combat by 'surprise' encounters (so - like half the game so far). I guess it just takes a Zen Master to set the Tactics up to be perfect in every scenario - oh, except for when the Tactics themselves are limited to only one weapon set at a time. (Sorry, Taiko, I had to ;p) Tactics need a lot of help to be truly useful. They are a damn site better than the old NWN2 NPC behaviours, but still needed more testing/tweaking than EA apparently wanted. (Hey, if it's broke - just ship it and fix it later. Deadlines are more imporantant than proper subroutines?) IMHO, the combat scenarios are too varied to apply the exact same set of 8 or 9 strategic options to a 'Hard' playthrough, I am unsure of how much more deeply detailed the Tactics might be in 'Nightmare'. Perhaps I should have been playing on that challenge setting all along, considering how often my 15th level characters 'miss' a frozen/prone target on Hard - I doubt that is too likely a solution; but I'll reserve my doubt until I start playing at that difficulty. Besides that, is there anyway to my character name in the list of Allies - instead of just ?



The Tactics issues are further compounded by a simple lack of the 'frozen' setting for enemy status arguments. I run with basic healing/stunning Tactics and would love it if the rest of the party would shatter enemies that are frozen instead of needing micro-management to do so (obviously rooted or immobilized don't apply exactly since those status flags relate to more spells/talents than they type that allow you to combine your attacks). Ah well, here's to hoping...

[Orca Orcinus]

@jerms - try maximizing your Threaten/Sunder Armor or other high 'hate' talents to keep the enemies focused on your fighters. The types of armor you equip also make them more likely to target your fighters (Massive Armor > Heavy Armor > Medium Armor). If that doesn't help, because you are doing all those things, look at the abilites you are using right away with your mage/rogue. You might need the fighters to bring the hurt first before attacking with the abilities you currently use. (Misdirection hex brings a ton of hate, Morrigan gets targeted right away after casting it - even if I have been beating the snot out of the spell's target. Thankfully it pretty much ruins melee attacks so she doesn't get destroyed before I get my own melee attackers to intercept them)

[Ballzz]

Ok, my rather basic tactics set up finally has broken down like I was afraid it would. I just got access to Wynne and had already had Morigan set up with the basic "heal" ability in her tactics set. Wynne has so many tactics slots that I had a full array of heal/buff/regen tactics and the last 3 spots where dmg spells. However, I would watch the onscreen message during fights and she would just sit there casting arcane bolt (one of the last tactics) and never seeming to heal or do *any* of the 6 tactics with a higher priority. I removed all dmg spells from the tactics list and it helped some but between Morigan and Wynne my party is getting wtfwnd. I either really don't get the tactics mechanic or it's not working at all like expected.



Here is what I have set for Wynne:

self:any ----> activate rock armor

ally:health<50% ----> group heal

self:health<50% ----> heal

ally:mana or stamina<50% ----> mass rejuvenation

controlled party member:any ----> heroic offense

self:being attacked by ranged attack ----> heroic aura

self:health<90% ----> regeneration

ally:health<90% ----> regeneration

3 empty slots



It may not be the most efficient set up and I was worried Wynne might die with me putting her as secondary priority to others for heals but what happens is everyone but her dies pretty much so even with me putting the healing of party members as first priority..and having her group heal when an ally dips below 50%..plus Morigan spot healing as well..the group keeps dying. My character is around level 10 so I'm also wondering if I might be too low level to be doing the Circle tower event? I dunno..I'm bewildered.

[Ballzz]

Oh, I forgot the most important thing..I was going to ask for suggestions on improving my tactics setup or maybe what others have theirs set to if they are getting better results.

[Ballzz]

Well...upon closer scrutiny in game it appears that the casters just run out of mana in like 5 seconds and begin just casting the lowest cost mana item over and over. Don't really know how to fix that. If I set them up to cast even less to conserve mana I will die even faster. I even tried removing the group heal and group rejuvenation and that helped a little but not enough. blarg!

[trickfred]

So... add a rule that makes them drink a lyrium potion when their mana is < 25%. Solved.

[Ballzz]

Yeah, I made some adjustments. It's working well now. Thanks.

[SHartin70]

I figured out something while playing last night, that Im not sure a lot of people realize. Whenever a character is selected by the player, their tactics / behavior are not active. This also includes multi-select, ie, when you press both lb + rb at the same time to select all. I was under the mistaken impression that when you did multi-select, it still ran the AI for everyone except the character you have previously selected with single select. I was typically controlling the whole party at once by selecting all party members, therefore none of them ever ran behavior / tactics. I stopped doing this and micro-managed my party more, selecting only 1 char at a time, and I noticed they did exactly what I had set in tactics.

[PatT2]

What SHartin70 said. Select them and you pull them out of tactics.



Wynn and all mages should have a line to chug lyrium potions when their mana gets below 25%, or yes, they'll just skip any line in tactics that they cannot comply with due to a shortage of mana. I also set everyone else to use heal poultices, even with a healer. Sometimes she simply cannot do everything for everyone.



I never use group heal or mass rejuvination in the tactics. If you have only one ally in need of healing, it's a total waste of precious mana to heal everyone. It should be more targeted.



I have my healer (Wynn) set to watch over 1) her own health and mana and then 2) the tank. If, and ONLY IF, there is no need for herself or the tank at the moment, THEN, she cares for the others. All "group" healing/regen happens as I notice it is needed, and then becomes a wise use of mana.



I also set up one of the dps folks to protect Wynn. If she comes under attack, I set them on whomever is attacking Wynn. So you can have party member A watch party member B's back. Useful in those conflagrations where you can't even see anything because there's blood and smoke and flames everywhere. The AI is the only one that can see what's happening



Tactics, are, imo, the most useful part of the game, but there's a learning curve. Well thought out tactics can save a team from a wipe. Poorly planned tactics can cause one. I'm careful about using abilities or items that cause friendly fire in tactics.



And then, aside from tactics themselves, there's behavior. So there are a lot of ways you can get each character to act. And it's really cool to watch it work well when you've taken the time and trouble to be thoughtful about tactics and behavior.

[Eshme]

Even if i disarm a trap, someone else is faster and sets it off. Or my mage does AOE, or Shale does some Quaking without considering teammates and this Quake is deadly for my team. It takes off more than 100HP, killing my rogues by a hair.

You cannot have these AOE attacks in your automated actions, and if u try to act manual you realize the automated stuff has depleted the stamina pool. Also i could cringe when automated heal heals the one with lowest HP, but not the one who is about to be pummeled and likely is dead quicker.

In all, not the traps, but the AOE is what destroys any tactic i try to achieve the most lol. I havent found a way yet to have teamies be careful with that. I dont see how anyway.

[Tielis]

The only way to prevent the party from routinely setting off traps is to always have control of the Rogue when walking around, and have him/her be stealthed. All party members will freeze when attacked, and the Rogue can move in and disarm the traps. However, once the Rogue leaves stealth, all hell breaks loose.

[Setz69]

Not sure if this falls in with what you guys are talking about, but anyone else having problems with the behavior tactics just straight out not working for Arcane Warrior?



If I equip wynn with a sword she gets right up close in every fight, even when set to ranged/passive/ or cautious. I wanted her as an Arcane warrior so she'd have enough armor to take the blows she gets from being a healer, but now she's standing right up in the front lines and I can't get her to stay back.

[Taiko Roshi]

Make sure to check the range of your mage's spell. Some are close range spells while others are long range. If you set a close range spell in tactics your mage will run into a mob to use it. Always, always make sure to set up your mage tactics to cast buff spells first so that your tank can take and hold aggro. Once your mage cast a powerful dps AoE spell there is a very high chance that your tank will lose aggro due to the spells dps, best way around this is to set your mage tactics up as follows:

1. Buff spell for tank: enemy->attacking NPC (tank)-> buff tank
2. Hold spell for mob: enemy->attacking NPC (tank)-> stun/hold AoE
3. AoE spell: enemy->attacking NPC (tank)-> dps AoE
4. Hold spell for any mob that tries to close on the mage: self->any->stun/hold AoE
5. Manna +/-% drink pot

Rinse repeat

Thats a basic set up which should see you through most fights. A more advanced set up will include using specific talents from your melee/ranged npc to attack mobs with +/- % health or mages, mob bosses etc. Again, make sure to work out what is the range of the talent/spell you are using and how much damage they do. If you are in hard/nightmare you MUST always cast protective buffs on your tank/off-tank/melee NPCs before you cast a AoE dps spell, otherwise they will more than likely die from your own attack. Stun/hold is a wonderful thing, you need to work out how to control mobs. Most importantly, take your time, read all of the tool tips and have fun. 

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 29 novembre 2009 - 07:21 .