115 réponses à ce sujet

[SarunasAndSoOn]

 so ive been lurking around the forums for a while, and ive seen multiple posts about shepard being indoctrinated in ME3. now i dont know if i missed some huge update or if people are just making up crazy rumors. if this is is true, which i highly doubt for many reasons, does anyone have any sources or some sort of confirmations? Also sorry if a post on this already exists. 

[yogolol]

People are saying he is because Cerberus is indoctrinated and people think that Cerberus put Reaper tech in Shepard when they brought him back to life.

[Rekkampum]

yogolol wrote...

People are saying he is because Cerberus is indoctrinated and people think that Cerberus put Reaper tech in Shepard when they brought him back to life.

Not only that, but those who played Overlord know that Shepard is "vulnerable" to some extent. 

[Sashimi_taco]

That would be the most stupid plot point. Shepard is well... Shepard. And to have the main character be indoctrinated would take the control out of the players hands which would simply ruin the game. The game is about choices, being indoctrinated would ruin that.

[CheeseEnchilada]

 Speculation, coming from a few sources:

-The kid in the ducts. Earlier on, there were a lot of theories that he was a hallucination, either brought on by stress or due to Reaper indoctrination. As it turns out, the kid is real, and ends up being killed.

-Overlord. Not necessarily indoctrination, but it seems Shep is able to be 'hacked' in some capacity.

-Object Rho's blast during Arrival. Getting hit full on by a Reaper artifact and being out for almost two days could have consequences. Or it could have just been a plot device to keep Shepard down.

-The theory that Cerberus rebuilt Shepard with Reaper technology. According to this theory, that's why they're after him/her--they're concerned that Shepard's the indoctrinated one.

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 07 août 2011 - 01:05 .

[yogolol]

Rekkampum wrote...

yogolol wrote...

People are saying he is because Cerberus is indoctrinated and people think that Cerberus put Reaper tech in Shepard when they brought him back to life.

Not only that, but those who played Overlord know that Shepard is "vulnerable" to some extent. 

Hmm I just took that as the austic guy (can`t remember his name) targetting only Shepard and messing with his omni tool.

[Sisterofshane]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

 Speculation, coming from a few sources:

-The kid in the ducts. Earlier on, there were a lot of theories that he was a hallucination, either brought on by stress or due to Reaper indoctrination. As it turns out, the kid is real, and ends up being killed.

-Overlord. Not necessarily indoctrination, but it seems Shep is able to be 'hacked' in some capacity.

-Object Rho's blast during Arrival. Getting hit full on by a Reaper artifact and being out for almost two days could have consequences. Or it could have just been a plot device to keep Shepard down.

-The theory that Cerberus rebuilt Shepard with Reaper technology. According to this theory, that's why they're after him/her--they're concerned that Shepard's the indoctrinated one.

Personally, I think that Shep is un-indoctrinatable.  I think that's partly why the collectors wanted to study Shep's body.

Think Paul Grayson in Retribution.  They specifically gave him red sand to break his will power, because he was effectively resisting indoctrination by the nanites injected into his body.  Shep, I believe, is another person with such will power, and it is hinted at in all of the games.

[Mr Powers94]

my opinion is hes not he destroyed object roh(sorry if spelling is wrong) a peice of reaper tech were as everyone else worshipped it and he was only exposed to it a short time.

[Unpleasant Implications]

I can see why people would think that. With all of the time s/he spends around Reapers and reaper-related objects, I wouldn't be surprised if s/he was in a state of early indoctrination.

[didymos1120]

Rekkampum wrote...

Not only that, but those who played Overlord know that Shepard is "vulnerable" to some extent. 

Which is irrelevant, because indoctrination works on the organic brain. Shepard has always been vulnerable. So is everything else in the galaxy that has a brain.

[didymos1120]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

-Overlord. Not necessarily indoctrination, but it seems Shep is able to be 'hacked' in some capacity.

No, it's necessarily not indoctrination.  Indoctrination is for organics only.  Don't know why this misconception is so common.

[didymos1120]

Sisterofshane wrote...
Think Paul Grayson in Retribution.  They specifically gave him red sand to break his will power, because he was effectively resisting indoctrination by the nanites injected into his body. 

No, they did that to speed things up.  It wasn't because he'd have been able to hold out forever.  It was because TIM didn't feel like waiting. Grayson was already slipping before they dosed him:

He tried to ignore them, but it was impossible to block out their constant, insidious murmur. There was something simultaneously repulsive yet seductive about them. Their presence in his mind was both a violation and an invitation: the Reapers calling to him across the great void of space.

Somehow he knew that if he concentrated on them, he would be able to understand what they said. But he didn’t want to understand. He was trying very hard not to understand because he knew understanding the voices was the beginning of the end.

With each passing hour Grayson could feel the whispers growing stronger. More insistent. Yet even though Cerberus had implanted him with this horrific alien technology, his will was still his own. For now, he was still able to resist them. And he intended to hold them at bay for as long as was humanly possible.

[Sisterofshane]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
Think Paul Grayson in Retribution.  They specifically gave him red sand to break his will power, because he was effectively resisting indoctrination by the nanites injected into his body. 

No, they did that to speed things up.  It wasn't because he'd have been able to hold out forever.  It was because TIM didn't feel like waiting. Grayson was already slipping before they dosed him:

He tried to ignore them, but it was impossible to block out their constant, insidious murmur. There was something simultaneously repulsive yet seductive about them. Their presence in his mind was both a violation and an invitation: the Reapers calling to him across the great void of space.

Somehow he knew that if he concentrated on them, he would be able to understand what they said. But he didn’t want to understand. He was trying very hard not to understand because he knew understanding the voices was the beginning of the end.

With each passing hour Grayson could feel the whispers growing stronger. More insistent. Yet even though Cerberus had implanted him with this horrific alien technology, his will was still his own. For now, he was still able to resist them. And he intended to hold them at bay for as long as was humanly possible.

Alright, admitting now that I haven't actually read the books.  But I still think it may be a good example that indoctrination can be resisted (to a point).  Who knows exactly how long he would have held out if his will power hadn't been broken?
And how else would we be able to explain  that characters like TIM and Shep being exposed to all kinds of Reaper tech and still (seemingly) remain un-indoctrinated, except through sheer force of will?

[Destroy Raiden_]

In game evidence is leading us that way thats why you see the post its a very plausible scenario we could encounter. I personally hope shep gets hacked and possessed by evil reaper rather then him get indoctrinated.

[Sashimi_taco]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

In game evidence is leading us that way thats why you see the post its a very plausible scenario we could encounter. I personally hope shep gets hacked and possessed by evil reaper rather then him get indoctrinated.

I just hope liara is not there to save the day if that happens with her mind powers. 

[WhiteKnyght]

yogolol wrote...

People are saying he is because Cerberus is indoctrinated and people think that Cerberus put Reaper tech in Shepard when they brought him back to life.

I think Cerberus becomes indoctrinated after ME2. Considering one ending leaves The Illusive Man with a buttload of collector/reaper tech ready for the harvesting Its safe to say thats a pretty good reason why they would be indoctrinated.

It's also possible that The Reapers themselves indoctrinated Cerberus at the start of the galactic war. Think of it like how Skynet managed to kill John Connor's future self in Terminator 3's story. They used an outdated T-800 designed to play on his childhood memories to deceive him. So the Reapers probably think that Shepard trusts Cerberus since he worked with them and decided to indoctrinate them to get behind his guard. Look how close they came to killing Shepard in Arrival. They lured him in alone, outnumbered him, and had him knocked out, disarmed, and laid on a lab table. Their mistake was not killing him then.

[Masquerade_Assassin]

Definitely with the will power defense. If you remember Morinth's mission (Samara's loyalty) she tried to control you. If you were Paragon/Renegade enough, you could pick who you wanted on your team.

In Overlord, David overloaded your Omni Tool. That only lasted for several seconds. Enough time to get you away from your team mates. After which you were in complete control of your Shepard. Just viewed the world differently.

In Arrival, the worst that the artifact could do to you is knock you out or show you it's thoughts. Shep woke up in a lab where I assume they were analyzing him on why they couldn't indoctrinate him.

Just a thought... You think coming into contact with Prothean artifacts makes you immune. You and your squad did come into contact with an artifact in ME1 and ME2. Would make sense why your immune and why Reapers would repurpose/make the extinct. Only one force in the galaxy that is immune to your effects?

[Sisterofshane]

Masquerade_Assassin wrote...

Definitely with the will power defense. If you remember Morinth's mission (Samara's loyalty) she tried to control you. If you were Paragon/Renegade enough, you could pick who you wanted on your team.

In Overlord, David overloaded your Omni Tool. That only lasted for several seconds. Enough time to get you away from your team mates. After which you were in complete control of your Shepard. Just viewed the world differently.

In Arrival, the worst that the artifact could do to you is knock you out or show you it's thoughts. Shep woke up in a lab where I assume they were analyzing him on why they couldn't indoctrinate him.

Just a thought... You think coming into contact with Prothean artifacts makes you immune. You and your squad did come into contact with an artifact in ME1 and ME2. Would make sense why your immune and why Reapers would repurpose/make the extinct. Only one force in the galaxy that is immune to your effects?

It might have something to do with Shep's brain being altered from the beacon's and the cipher, but I highly doubt it.  Besides, Vigil states that there were indoctrinated Protheans that were used as "sleeper agents", and eventually betrayed the other worlds.  So, they were not immune to indoctrination by themselves.
But. I think no.  Just sheer will power.  The kind that enable people to cut off trapped limbs in order for survival.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

In game evidence is leading us that way thats why you see the post its a very plausible scenario we could encounter. I personally hope shep gets hacked and possessed by evil reaper rather then him get indoctrinated.

I just hope liara is not there to save the day if that happens with her mind powers. 

I don't know if Asari melds beat indoctrination.....I was thinking shep would be hacked back by a combined force of EDI, Tali, and Legion.

[CaptREDKangaroo]

People are overthinking things trying to connect things that have OTHER explanations than oh he must be indoctrinated. If Shepard is indoctrinated - what would the point of an ME3 be... or ME2? I mean seriously - he kills collectors stops reapers delays reapers from getting to earth (Arrival) and talks to Harbinger like they're enemies... for what point?

If he is slowly becoming indoctrinated in ME3, still. WE are Shep - clearly, it's dealt with right away in ME3 - or the Reapers have become crap at indoctrinating if Shep is going to be killing them and thwarting and rallying the galaxy against them, which of course, he will, even if he doesn't win. It's the same reason why TIM isn't indoctrinated during ME2 (ME3 now maybe different).

Shep is the hero of ME, he's touted as humanities best hope, a Spectre, worth reviving, he must have some darn strong willpower and frankly kinda find the notion he's somehow indoctrinated offensive, because WE are him and makes no sense unless it's just a way to lose in ME3 or you can overcome it IF he becomes it in ME3.

Modifié par CaptREDKangaroo, 07 août 2011 - 06:23 .

[marshalleck]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

yogolol wrote...

People are saying he is because Cerberus is indoctrinated and people think that Cerberus put Reaper tech in Shepard when they brought him back to life.

I think Cerberus becomes indoctrinated after ME2. Considering one ending leaves The Illusive Man with a buttload of collector/reaper tech ready for the harvesting Its safe to say thats a pretty good reason why they would be indoctrinated.

It's also possible that The Reapers themselves indoctrinated Cerberus at the start of the galactic war. Think of it like how Skynet managed to kill John Connor's future self in Terminator 3's story. They used an outdated T-800 designed to play on his childhood memories to deceive him. So the Reapers probably think that Shepard trusts Cerberus since he worked with them and decided to indoctrinate them to get behind his guard. Look how close they came to killing Shepard in Arrival. They lured him in alone, outnumbered him, and had him knocked out, disarmed, and laid on a lab table. Their mistake was not killing him then.

Except that this doesn't mesh with what Mac Walters has said about TIM in ME3, which is that he's very much himself, and doing things for his own reasons. So that effectively rules out TIM indoctrination, at least. And if you look at the text blurb about Cerberus troopers on th ME3 site, it says "As the galaxy crumbles, their loyalty to Cerberus only grows more absolute." Does that sound like they're indoctrinated? Something else is going on with them. 

When Shepard calls them indoctrinated in the gameplay trailers, I think he's just assuming that to be the case. He's an unreliabla narrator.

Modifié par marshalleck, 07 août 2011 - 06:52 .

[robarcool]

Sisterofshane wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

 Speculation, coming from a few sources:

-The kid in the ducts. Earlier on, there were a lot of theories that he was a hallucination, either brought on by stress or due to Reaper indoctrination. As it turns out, the kid is real, and ends up being killed.

-Overlord. Not necessarily indoctrination, but it seems Shep is able to be 'hacked' in some capacity.

-Object Rho's blast during Arrival. Getting hit full on by a Reaper artifact and being out for almost two days could have consequences. Or it could have just been a plot device to keep Shepard down.

-The theory that Cerberus rebuilt Shepard with Reaper technology. According to this theory, that's why they're after him/her--they're concerned that Shepard's the indoctrinated one.

Personally, I think that Shep is un-indoctrinatable.  I think that's partly why the collectors wanted to study Shep's body.

Think Paul Grayson in Retribution.  They specifically gave him red sand to break his will power, because he was effectively resisting indoctrination by the nanites injected into his body.  Shep, I believe, is another person with such will power, and it is hinted at in all of the games.

I like this theory. Hey folks, believe in your hero!

[marshalleck]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

That would be the most stupid plot point. Shepard is well... Shepard. And to have the main character be indoctrinated would take the control out of the players hands which would simply ruin the game. The game is about choices, being indoctrinated would ruin that.

Just curious, when someone says "Shepard's indoctrinated" what gameplay scenarios come into your mind, such that you're so utterly against it? Do you think we would no longer be given choices to make and Shepard would go around stomping puppies?

Modifié par marshalleck, 07 août 2011 - 06:57 .

[didymos1120]

robarcool wrote...

I like this theory. Hey folks, believe in your hero!

As I said upthread: Grayson was already succumbing to indoctrination, despite his considerable willpower.  That's kinda the whole point: eventually, it WILL get to you.  And that's only if the Reaper doesn't just decide to hit you with a maximum strength dose and turn you into an drooling moron in the space of few days.

[marshalleck]

didymos1120 wrote...

robarcool wrote...

I like this theory. Hey folks, believe in your hero!

As I said upthread: Grayson was already succumbing to indoctrination, despite his considerable willpower.  That's kinda the whole point: eventually, it WILL get to you.  And that's only if the Reaper doesn't just decide to hit you with a maximum strength dose and turn you into an drooling moron in the space of few days.

Exactly. Grayson's mental resistance wouldn't have spared him more than a few more hours, maybe days at most. Cerberus just didn't want to play waiting games with him, so they dosed him with the red sand. It's not like that was the only way Grayson would have succumbed. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 07 août 2011 - 07:08 .