115 réponses à ce sujet

[FERMi27]

marshalleck wrote...

FERMi27 wrote...

Y ok, then what's the point in this thread and many others?

Sometimes a kid in an air duct really is just a kid in an air duct.

Not if he disappears like a ghost and talks in a spooky fashion. "You can't help me" - yeah, right, go find a random kid in the ventilation shaft, he'll repeat the same thing.

Modifié par FERMi27, 07 août 2011 - 09:47 .

[Major Tao]

 Pretty good points all around there folks ! 
Nicely argued ! 

I knew spending time with Rho was a BAD IDEA !       
Uh. oh...... my lurking fears are still lurking !!!

~  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Scene :  On the Gunnery Deck, Garrus and the Commander are chatting....

Garrus:   "Shepard,  I wouldn't usually mention something like this.... "

Shepard:   "Yes ?"

Garrus:     "....but man.. you're seriously glowing...  Did you just DO IT with Liara - and come here immediately afterwards ?"

Shepard:    "Garrus.... no way buddy... am I... ?    UH.......ARRGH !!!!"   

Garrus:  ( Shouting as the Commander doubles over....)     "Shepard !" 

( There is a bright red- FLASH - in the room and suddenly a glowing red figure stands in Shepard's place......)

( Harbringer's  voice )       "ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL"

~  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 

Modifié par Major_Tao_Tau, 07 août 2011 - 10:05 .

[FERMi27]

Shepard is "unassumable". Deal with it.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

^ I can just imagine te howls rising from all around the globe.  

[Han Shot First]

Exclusive clip of Indoctrinated Shepard in ME3, doing what he does best while the Earth burns:

[robarcool]

marshalleck wrote...

People are power-hungry. Aliens in ME are just humans in funny looking suits; the first game goes out of its way to tell you this. Remember Kaidan's comment about them being saints and sinners just like the rest of us?

What greater power is there than conquering death? I just cannot accept that if any individuals or groups in ME thought it even a remote possibility with the right application of ingenuity and technology, that they would just turn it down. Especially on financial grounds. Bringing people back from the dead would be the most significant advance ever for all of the biological and medical sciences. They would be dedicated to pursuing it, no matter the cost.

Well, looks like I will see it when the game comes out. As for all those colors showing up in scars and reaper larva, it could be what people are saying or it could be a coincidence as I believe. All in all, I kind of don't like the idea of Shepard being indictrinated, even if you folks might be right.

Modifié par robarcool, 07 août 2011 - 04:10 .

[King Minos]

A mission where Shepards indoctrinated and the player ends controlling a LI and has to get Shepard back would be an awesome mission, controlling Liara and seeing her crying trying to turn Shepard back would be awesome.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

That would be the most stupid plot point. Shepard is well... Shepard. And to have the main character be indoctrinated would take the control out of the players hands which would simply ruin the game. The game is about choices, being indoctrinated would ruin that.

Did Isaac being insane ruin Dead Space 2? (Hint: Sten)
Frankly, if it's a Saren-esque process, and Shepard recognizes he's becoming just like Saren (technically, he's a rogue Spectre due to working with Cerberus, he's recruiting armies of Krogan, possibly Rachni and possibly Geth, has cyberntic implants, etc.), then I think it'll give Shepard loads of needed character. The choice would then be "How do I deal with the fact I'm slowly losing myself?"
Or "How do I find a cure? Is there one?"
Also, the fact that the Geth can't be force-fully indoctrinated may actually show that Shepard's implants will be his saving grace FROM indoctrination. It could work out in a few different ways, depending on how the reaper tech was implanted, and how much of it actually is reaper tech, ranging from none to all.

[Sashimi_taco]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...



Did Isaac being insane ruin Dead Space 2? (Hint: Sten)
Frankly, if it's a Saren-esque process, and Shepard recognizes he's becoming just like Saren (technically, he's a rogue Spectre due to working with Cerberus, he's recruiting armies of Krogan, possibly Rachni and possibly Geth, has cyberntic implants, etc.), then I think it'll give Shepard loads of needed character. The choice would then be "How do I deal with the fact I'm slowly losing myself?"
Or "How do I find a cure? Is there one?"
Also, the fact that the Geth can't be force-fully indoctrinated may actually show that Shepard's implants will be his saving grace FROM indoctrination. It could work out in a few different ways, depending on how the reaper tech was implanted, and how much of it actually is reaper tech, ranging from none to all.

Dead space 2 was not a game based on the player's choices. 

[MrAtomica]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Sashimi_taco wrote...

That would be the most stupid plot point. Shepard is well... Shepard. And to have the main character be indoctrinated would take the control out of the players hands which would simply ruin the game. The game is about choices, being indoctrinated would ruin that.

Did Isaac being insane ruin Dead Space 2? (Hint: Sten)
Frankly, if it's a Saren-esque process, and Shepard recognizes he's becoming just like Saren (technically, he's a rogue Spectre due to working with Cerberus, he's recruiting armies of Krogan, possibly Rachni and possibly Geth, has cyberntic implants, etc.), then I think it'll give Shepard loads of needed character. The choice would then be "How do I deal with the fact I'm slowly losing myself?"
Or "How do I find a cure? Is there one?"
Also, the fact that the Geth can't be force-fully indoctrinated may actually show that Shepard's implants will be his saving grace FROM indoctrination. It could work out in a few different ways, depending on how the reaper tech was implanted, and how much of it actually is reaper tech, ranging from none to all.

And there's the reason why Shepard being in the infant stages of indoctrination could have been a powerful device for character building. While control would not be taken away from the player, the knowledge that Shepard is slowly losing his/herself to his/her mortal enemy would bring emotional connection to the story. Nothing makes a war meaningful like a personal stake.

Do I think that Bioware will do anything like this? Short answer, nope. Shep is a good old fashioned action hero, so the possibility of a psychological conflict like this is slim to none.

Fun fact: after Project Lazarus, Shepard is now a blend of organic and synthetic. Sound familiar? That creates a commonality between the hero and villain, which also brings another potential means of adding depth to his/her character - the realization that one of the distinguishing factors between "us" and "them" is now gone.
I'm definitely reading too much into this, but I have the excuse of being a college student.

[Han Shot First]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

Jonathan Shepard wrote...



Did Isaac being insane ruin Dead Space 2? (Hint: Sten)
Frankly, if it's a Saren-esque process, and Shepard recognizes he's becoming just like Saren (technically, he's a rogue Spectre due to working with Cerberus, he's recruiting armies of Krogan, possibly Rachni and possibly Geth, has cyberntic implants, etc.), then I think it'll give Shepard loads of needed character. The choice would then be "How do I deal with the fact I'm slowly losing myself?"
Or "How do I find a cure? Is there one?"
Also, the fact that the Geth can't be force-fully indoctrinated may actually show that Shepard's implants will be his saving grace FROM indoctrination. It could work out in a few different ways, depending on how the reaper tech was implanted, and how much of it actually is reaper tech, ranging from none to all.

Dead space 2 was not a game based on the player's choices. 

If Indoctrination was implemented in the story it wouldn't remove player choices. You'd still have choices, it would just be presented in such a way that when the indoctrination reveal came about, your choices would be described as being part of the Reaper's plan.

Also, Shepard obviously wouldn't stay indoctrinated. There are going to be endings where the Reapers lose.

[Luigitornado]

We don't know the extent of cybernetic upgrades he has gotten from Cerberus. If explained well, I wouldn't mind seeing a Shepard struggling with indoctrination in ME3...but I don't think Cerberus implanted Shepard with Reaper tech.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 07 août 2011 - 06:10 .

[JamieCOTC]

The way Shepard's death and resurrection was hand waved in ME2 and subsequent DLC I have a sinking feeling it will never come up at all.

[didymos1120]

JamieCOTC wrote...

The way Shepard's death and resurrection was hand waved in ME2 and subsequent DLC I have a sinking feeling it will never come up at all.

Go read the twitter thread.

[JamieCOTC]

didymos1120 wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

The way Shepard's death and resurrection was hand waved in ME2 and subsequent DLC I have a sinking feeling it will never come up at all.

Go read the twitter thread.

Thanks. I stand corrected.  And happily so.  (http://twitter.com/#...203535064498176)

[Destroy Raiden_]

Hopefully they give as much detail as possible I've made a thread that attempts to give BW a map to fallow for what subjects to coverhttp://social.biowar...3/index/7730998
I would prefer a readable data cache with a few audio files, and photos thrown in.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 07 août 2011 - 10:49 .

[SarunasAndSoOn]

ok so i read some of the posts (four pages is just to many) but heres why i think shep cant be indoctrinated. forgive me if people already said this

Even if TIM wanted to put reaper tech in shepard during the Lazarus project, Miranda would have known about it, considering she was around ALL THE TIME. and if you gain here loyalty/romance her, she would have undoubtedly told you about it.

Next, im pretty sure people already said this, but if shepard was idoctrinated, player choice in terms of anything you can do with your remote, will be completely useless. It would go beyond dialogue, you wouldnt even be able to shoot your gun at "reaperized" creatures.

and last, indoctrinated people, or at least those who we have met, show major worship for the reapers. unless i played the wrong game. shepard shows the complete opposite.

[BatmanPWNS]

Shep better get indoctrinated. I mean his been hanging out with too much Reaper artifacts to just be free from it.

[Destroy Raiden_]

But Saren also was the opposite he was no reaper worshiper either. Shep can be indoctrinated and not be a worshiper. There was also a scientist that you find during a sidequest where the entire operation was indoctrinated but one of them figured it out and wanted to destroy the project but his staff killed him first.

[SarunasAndSoOn]

saren may not have been all out worshiping the reapers, but he sure as hell didnt hate them. the only times he showed any sort of distaste was when his mind cleared for a short period time (like right before he shot himself in the head)

[Destroy Raiden_]

He joined them because he saw no other solution he must've realized quickly on he stood no chance at giving a proper resistance and in order to save his species he decided to be a willing puppet for them.

I'm trying to figure out if he died while getting sovereign or did he just naturally look like a walking corpse? (any info from the books on this?) My theory is while he was trying to get sovereign he died and sovereign brought him back sense from ME he's decked out from the start with tubes, stitching, and metal enhancements and he is considerably more pale then any Turian I've seen before ME or sense. It would also explain the extensive metal skeleton he had like shep death would be easier to have that end achieved with less harm to the person then having them alive putting them under and going all psycho on their skeletal structure.


I look at Saren as he was a hostage of sovereign but he crossed that line from being victim to outright collaborator when he actively started participating in Sovereigns demands..

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 08 août 2011 - 08:54 .

[Wynne]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

-The theory that Cerberus rebuilt Shepard with Reaper technology. According to this theory, that's why they're after him/her--they're concerned that Shepard's the indoctrinated one.

Huh. Interesting. That does make sense. Shepard arrives on Earth and suddenly it's being attacked by Reapers? Odd, and seems highly circumstantial, but it could be. Maybe someone within Cerberus (an indoctrinated someone) presented false data to make TIM go after Shepard.

[kold213]

It's been said a dozen times over the course of the games: the more free will the reapers allow, the more they can control their target.

They used persuasion and influence to get better use out of Paul Grayson (made him THINK he didn't want to kill himself out of rebellion) and Saren (made him think he was actually saving everyone by helping Sovereign).

[SandTrout]

It's been said a dozen times over the course of the games: the more free will the reapers allow, the more they can control their target.

Incorrect. It is stated that the more subtle the indoctrination process, the less degradation in neural processes there is. Free will, however, is directly counter to Indoctrination.

They used persuasion and influence to get better use out of Paul Grayson (made him THINK he didn't want to kill himself out of rebellion) and Saren (made him think he was actually saving everyone by helping Sovereign).

This is not an example of free will, this is alternate routes of subverting it.

Modifié par SandTrout, 08 août 2011 - 11:42 .

[ThePwener]

It would indeed make for an interesting twist. Arrival had too many weird things going on. 2 days is a lot of time to be out next to a Reaper artifact, and the whole DLC is canonical wethever you played it or not.