147 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

elektrego wrote...

@sinners:

As I said as long as you stick to criticizing the character design, I have no problem.

But saying you respect Samara despite the design and not respecting Ashley because of the design is kind of hypocritical.

I don't think she is sexed up in a ridiculous way, based on the Mass Effect universe, where everything always was kind of skin thight, even im ME1 (where was your outrage then?)
I don't see any layers of make-up, she always wore make-up, this ridiculing of one kind of femininity in an exaggerating way is borderline sexist in it-self, imo. Apart from pornstar, I have read "hooker" or "Barbie" or the use of other characters or real-life people in a demeaning manner in posts by other people. Very classy.
When your mind goes from Ashley's new design to porn star immidiately than you are the oblivious one.
This inability to really look, compare and differantiate in these "critiques" is what is my gripe and the use of sensationalistic comparisons like that is what we hate about the marketing people.

Well, when you criticize something you should really watch how you do it or you risk people giving you a taste of your own medicine.

For myself I found Samara's character to be facinating in concept.  But the outfit...yeah major ponts got docked there.  Goes totally against the "mystic warrior" vibe the were trying to go for i my mind.

As for Ashley.  Compare her casual outfit in ME1 to ME3.  In ME1 it's an Alliance uniform with a t-shirt and cargo pants.  Simple, professional.  functional.  Not at all skin tight.  Now look at the "casual" outfit she wears.  Thigh high boots and a jacket that looks like it can pass as a miniskirt in a pinch.  It' serves no function other than to say "Look at me!  I got a makeover!  Ain't I hot?"

 Even the pose they put her in for the latest pictures is pretty laughable.  Especially compared to Kaidan, right next to her.  I totally admit to calling her new look "Mass Effect Barbie"  because she has in fact been dolled up.  though the other terms are a bit too strong.  I don't see layers of makeup and I don't care if her hair is let down provided it's tied back in combat. (and it looks like it is)

Modifié par iakus, 25 octobre 2011 - 04:50 .

[SinnersDestiny]

I only respect Samara because of her personality. It took me a while to get used to her look. I used to ignore her. I don't like it. But I tolerate it. I have to, because I see it all the time in games. There is a difference between respecting a character and liking how they look. The only thing about Samara's look I like, is her jewelery. So no, it isn't hypocritical. I do tolerate her look only because that is how the character was originally designed by BioWare. I don't tolerate what they have done to Ashely because that was not her original design. They changed it significantly, it's not Ashley anymore, it's Miranda. It's not the Ashely I respected, even if I didn't like her personality. There are thousands of Miranda's and a rare amount of "old Ashley's". I still don't think you know how much changing her appearance to another Miranda affects many girls who game as a whole. Many of us don't want another Miranda. We want Ashley's. Now we don't even have Ashley anymore. It's the principle.

I do think that she is sexed up in a ridiculous way. She was sexed up in ME1, I noticed that, but I had no problem with because it was a lot more subtle. I take what I can get. She was on the right track to a decent female who doesn't pander to guys.

People now are desensitized to this, so much so that they do not realize how much. I have seen it a lot. I mean, just take a look at James Vega. He was sexualized (and I still think not as much as Ashley) and there was an outcry because "he looked like a douche". In other words, he was slightly objectified. But no one complains if it is done to a female, because they are used to it and don't see a problem with it. Heck, maybe even think it as normal. There is a huge outcry if it is done to men, though. And that is my point. You don't see it because it is so "normal".

I just want more decent females for us females to like. That is all. I do not want to stop objectification of either sex, I just want it to be more equal in how they portray our sex. Ashley was one of the few decent females left over the sea of male fantasy women, and one of, if not the only woman in Mass Effect which didn't pander to guys either. I think there are quite a few females who like BioWare games, right? I am sure we would appreciate more Ashley's. Who do I have left now to portray females in a decent light, and not as a sex object, for once?

What you are saying is this "There were loads of sexulized females in ME. So what difference does it make if one more female is changed?"

What I say to that is, that is exactly the point. There are a lot of females in ME who were sexualised. I tolerate it. Ashley (and maybe Jack with her shaved head and tattoos) was the only ones who weren't like that. We females want that in games. Now she is gone.

I think it says a lot when I say that I have no favourite characters who are female (Shale is an exception). Not one. All my fave characters are male (Legion is also an exception). And that is because of how the females are being portrayed. It means a lot when a character who was finally being portrayed in a light which females liked, is now just another sex object.

I am not saying there it only one kind of femininity. You were by saying that she was always feminine, so it gives her an excuse to dress up like that. There are a lot of ways to dress feminine. Why does she have to dress up as a male fantasy to become more feminine? That is demeaning.

And no, I am not oblivious. She DOES look like a porn star. She looks pretty tacky, really. That was not how she was. If you want to continue saying she looks like a decent, pretty, feminine girl who you can proudly show to your parents, and does not say "objectify me" and says "respect me" well there is nothing I can say to that other than you have it all wrong.

If a female in real life wants to dress up like that, they will get the attention that dressing up like that gives (objectification). It's very, very rare for females to dress up like that, anyway. And I don't call females ****s. I am just saying the label that males call them when they dress up as such. Speaks volumes, I think. But my point wasn't really about rl anyway. It is how we women are portrayed in the media. I can't believe you are condoning this, and trying to defend it. Blatantly ignoring the fact that we women want VARIATION and something DIFFERENT in how WE are portrayed. Which Ashley was, until the makeover. If you want eye candy, go drool over the Asari or Miranda, or every other female in games.

Now Ashley is just like every other woman being portrayed in games. A generic sex object fantasy woman for guys. Ashley stood for progress. Not anymore. What is the harm in wanting more variation in how we are portrayed? There is no good excuse for portraying us all like we are eye candy for men to drool at, and that if we are to look attractive to you, we all have to look like Miranda, Ashley, Samara etc or even all have to be attractive to men in the first place. And if anyone thinks it is OK, you are ignorant, and you never know, maybe even a little sexist. There is no harm in wanting to portray females in a different light, how we want them to be portrayed.

Modifié par SinnersDestiny, 25 octobre 2011 - 04:57 .

[alex90c]

SinnersDestiny wrote...

People now are desensitized to this, so much so that they do not realize how much. I have seen it a lot. I mean, just take a look at James Vega. He was sexualized (and I still think not as much as Ashley) and there was an outcry because "he looked like a douche". In other words, he was slightly objectified. But no one complains if it is done to a female, because they are used to it and don't see a problem with it. Heck, maybe even think it as normal. There is a huge outcry if it is done to men, though. And that is my point. You don't see it because it is so "normal".

B.S.

Default Shepard's face is the face of a Calvin Klein model, and yet nobody has batted an eyelid. Jacob flaunts his abs in his final romance scene, nobody really cared about that either (as in, in the negative sense). If you don't think people complain about sexualisation of female characters, then you're wrong by a long shot; peoplw moaned and moaned and moaned about Ashley's appearance so now in combat she'll have the bun rather than her hair down, and when the first version of the Kotobuyika Liara statue was displayed, everyone just went crazy for god knows how long saying that the sexualisation was the biggest pile of sh*t they'd ever seen. And yes, now the boobs have gone from being planet sized to a much more modest size. Same for the long legs in the original design, they were reduced in length.

[SinnersDestiny]

alex90c wrote...

B.S.

Default Shepard's face is the face of a Calvin Klein model, and yet nobody has batted an eyelid. Jacob flaunts his abs in his final romance scene, nobody really cared about that either (as in, in the negative sense). If you don't think people complain about sexualisation of female characters, then you're wrong by a long shot; peoplw moaned and moaned and moaned about Ashley's appearance so now in combat she'll have the bun rather than her hair down, and when the first version of the Kotobuyika Liara statue was displayed, everyone just went crazy for god knows how long saying that the sexualisation was the biggest pile of sh*t they'd ever seen. And yes, now the boobs have gone from being planet sized to a much more modest size. Same for the long legs in the original design, they were reduced in length.

People, as a whole, are desensitised to it, especially when it comes to sexulization of females. I am not saying ALL people are. Just a lot. Case in point, a very good example:

browse.deviantart.com/

I have gotten so many hate messeges, or read so many things from guys who say stuff about sexulizing males saying "this is so gay" "that is so discusting" "I am going to puke" "my eyes bleed" etc yet don't think anything about it with women, to warrent this. I am just glad that BioWare fans, as a whole seem to be more open about this. It makes me happy. I think this is the most accepting group of people I have come across.

Yes, there was some outcry about Ashley, but as usual, most people are saying "it's OK". All you have to do is look at the number of people in this thread who either like it, or don't mind it. 

But I agree. Default Shepard is hot. But do you see him being sexulised to the degree that Miranda is? Is he wearing skintight clothes (I don't count armour, Ashley also wears it, it isn't extreme like Miranda or something)? It is highly likely that Male Shep was intended to cater to a male audience anyway. Not a female one, since a lot of males will want to play as MaleShep. And that is a huge difference.

Also, Jacob only flaunts his abs if you romance him. So, in other words a sex scene that you have to romance Jacob in order to see. One reason why I like BioWare so much is that they are a lot better to their female audience compared to other Devs, though. I commend and respect them for that. Which is a great leap. However, Ashley's new look is a huge step backwards.

Do I think that the female/female sex scene with nudity is bad? No, it is not bad because it is a sex scene. It is meant to be that way. Because they are sex scenes. So I don't think you can count that. Male characters are not being portrayed like that throughout the whole game. Jacob does seem to have a spandex thing going on, which I guess BioWare did try to cater to females with that (although, I don't think it worked properly lol). But it is pretty rare for male characters to get the sexulization that females get, especially for a female audience, and not for a male one. The only characters I can think of which gets the sexulization that females get, are characters from the MGS series, and Regnier from Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom.

I still think Liara was created for guys anyway, though. Well, she IS an Asari. But it's great that another character was made that wasn't your average sex object. Unless they changed her look too, then I got no problem with her. Although, I think you have got me there. Good one lol. I am glad so many hated the over the top sexulization for her. But then, why feel like it is OK to do it with Ashley, but not Liara?

I just never paid attention to Liara. She seemed too much like "I want you Shepard" for me. I did like the fact that she was a researcher and interested in the Protheans, though. Funny you think Liara's boobs are modest size. They still look very big to me.

[SinnersDestiny]

I don't generalize REAL LIFE people in how they dress. I thought I said that before. Like you would be able to find someone who dresses like Samara easily anyway (That is a fact, not a generalizaton, her design is very fantasy like). Unless maybe you are in a club. Then no.

I base my thoughts about desensitization of sex in FANTASY situations based on a few things: actually having prejudice against me and being in a minority, how that character is meant to be perceived and why they designed and made a character like that in the first place. It also helps that I can look at this objectively. It may seem harsh to some, but I am just telling the truth. That can unfortunately come out bad at times. Even though I do not intend it to be as such. I am not doing any bashing on any person/group/people. I didn't realize that I was doing it at all actually. I apologize if you think I was doing that. I just don't think you understand my points properly, or maybe they came out the wrong way.

What this new Ashley character design boils down to, is sex appeal to get more sales.
It's a marketing trick. Sex sells, and people like sex. It has nothing to do with the character themselves and how they have developed and grown. Even if some people do not see the design as sexy (since everyone has preferences) it is still intended to be sexulized for males to look at. Whether they see it as sexy or not is something entirely different.

I am not saying every male is a drooling idiot (not my intention AT ALL!!) or making any pre conceived notions that you think I am implying. I could easily say that Kaiden is designed to have sex appeal to women to drool over, but not every woman who likes Kaiden is a drooling idiot. Which it is obvious Kaiden was made to appeal to women. It doesn't mean all women think of him like that though.

I am just stating facts. These characters are made for sex appeal on purpose. I want Ashley to be more than that. And for once, female characters to be different and not always objectified, like the males can be (in other words, not designed to be sexulized in any way). That is all. I don't see what is so bad about wanting that.

But fine. If you can't understand what I am truly trying to get at (even if we do agree on some points) then I guess we should just leave it at that.

Modifié par SinnersDestiny, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:12 .

[CptData]

SinnersDestiny wrote...

What this new Ashley character design boils down to, is sex appeal to get more sales.
It's a marketing trick. Sex sells, and people like sex. It has nothing to do with the character themselves and how they have developed and grown. Even if some people do not see the design as sexy (since everyone has preferences) it is still intended to be sexulized for males to look at. Whether they see it as sexy or not is something entirely different.

I am not saying every male is a drooling idiot (not my intention AT ALL!!) or making any pre conceived notions that you think I am implying. I could easily say that Kaiden is designed to have sex appeal to women to drool over, but not every woman who likes Kaiden is a drooling idiot. Which it is obvious Kaiden was made to appeal to women. It doesn't mean all women think of him like that though.

I am just stating facts. These characters are made for sex appeal on purpose. I want Ashley to be more than that. And for once, female characters to be different and not always objectified, like the males can be. That is all. I don't see what is so bad about wanting that.

Several snips ... but here we go:

Ashley was a poster character of ME, together with John "canon" Shepard and Garrus. I wouldn't say Ash was "not" sexy on that cover, since her armor was quite feminine. But wouldn't say I bought the game because of Ashley. I bought ME once it was released for PC because of that great trailer and I have a thing for SciFi. ME can easily be named as the "Star Wars of the 21st Century" in my eyes.

ME3 doesn't need Ashley as "sexy lady" to get bought. Actually, I wonder why they used Miranda for ME2 - for me, she's a bit too often reduced to her body attributes, overshadowing her interesting character.

Ashley is a tad better developed and one of the more authentic characters. I don't see her as a "sexy woman for drooling nerds who never can get in touch with a real woman" - I mean this game isn't just made for 16y old guys. I'm nearly 30, have a beautiful fiancee and still enjoy games like Mass Effect. And I love Ashley as a well developed character. Don't need an "oversexed Ash" to buy the game. She's great as she is and her new look - as far as I know - is optional and just one of several options. I'll go for the hair bun and a more combat worthy appearance ...


By the way: if it's all about marketing - why aren't Miranda & Liara poster characters of ME3? As far as I know both have more fans than any other character.

Modifié par CptData, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:24 .

[SinnersDestiny]

CptData wrote...


Several snips ... but here we go:

Ashley was a poster character of ME, together with John "canon" Shepard and Garrus. I wouldn't say Ash was "not" sexy on that cover, since her armor was quite feminine. But wouldn't say I bought the game because of Ashley. I bought ME once it was released for PC because of that great trailer and I have a thing for SciFi. ME can easily be named as the "Star Wars of the 21st Century" in my eyes.

ME3 doesn't need Ashley as "sexy lady" to get bought. Actually, I wonder why they used Miranda for ME2 - for me, she's a bit too often reduced to her body attributes, overshadowing her interesting character.

Ashley is a tad better developed and one of the more authentic characters. I don't see her as a "sexy woman for drooling nerds who never can get in touch with a real woman" - I mean this game isn't just made for 16y old guys. I'm nearly 30, have a beautiful fiancee and still enjoy games like Mass Effect. And I love Ashley as a well developed character. Don't need an "oversexed Ash" to buy the game. She's great as she is and her new look - as far as I know - is optional and just one of several options. I'll go for the hair bun and a more combat worthy appearance ...


By the way: if it's all about marketing - why aren't Miranda & Liara poster characters of ME3? As far as I know both have more fans than any other character.

Now, if only the media paid more attention to people like us who really couldn't give two hoots about extreme sexulization in games.... that said, I did buy Circle of Doom because of Regnier. OK, perhaps I do give two hoots. But I don't usually buy games for sexy characters, and heck, males generally aren't as over sexulized like females (I bought Circle of Doom along with Oblivion because I wanted an RPG like game, and just picked the two that stood out, so sex does sell, however it can get pretty out of hand). Sexulization is OK as long as it is not with ALL characters. Both male and female. I just ignore Miranda. No problem there. But I want there to be a lot more out there.

As for Miranda, she was on the box art of ME2 along with MaleShep and Thane. I would say that they did try to use her to market the game. I don't mind sexy characters, I just hate it when it happens so often for all or most characters. Especially when they change characters who were attractive and break the mold, but not too over sexulized like with Ashley. It turns me off wanting to play a game. I want it to be even. Oghren and Shale, along with Alistair are my fave characters ever in DA:O, along with Dog. They were all pretty funny and cute. Both genders don't need over the top sexulization for all or most characters. If they want to use sex to sell, fine. I have no problem. It can actually be good in some instances, for both genders. It's all fun. It only becomes a problem when sexulization is the main or only option for either gender. As it stands, it's a problem.

I hope the media actually listens and grows up, even if just a little. I would really appreciate it. :/

Modifié par SinnersDestiny, 25 octobre 2011 - 09:12 .

[Iakus]

elektrego wrote...

@iakus:

I am actually comparing it to armor (I am still inclined to believe, that the term "casual outfit" was coined after the initial outrage) and I place it somewhere between light and medium armor, apart from the open zipper at the collar, the foot wear and the differently cut bust, but those are "features" of the overall change in female design going from the first to the second game and as long as you stick to critizing the whole tendency behind the design, I agree.

I don't see her casual outfit as armor at all.  That's a jacket she's wearing.  No more "armor" than Thane's longcoat.  And armor should never have an open collar anyway.  Not only is that a huge "shoot here" sign, but that's where the helmet is supposed to fasten onto.  If Ash's new armored look is a result of outrage, then it was outrage put to good use.  

But comparing it in terms of material and colorization, I don't see that much of a difference, and this is the origin of comments like miniskirt or underwear. Hell, in the, I think it's the heavy duelist armor in ME1, she "looks like she is wearing bikini bottoms from behind" for example, if I apply that way of looking at it. Because of the shoulder pads I am actually inclined to stick it among the medium armor, the type she wears initially, before the player starts to put points in her development and the type she is certified in according to her profile.
If you choose to compare it only in terms of the Phoenix, the one we are stuck with in some of the cutscenes, then it really doesn't reflect the whole reality of the game and when she says her famous line about the Asari commandos, she can be very well in something different.

I won't argue that the colors and patterns on ME1 armor left much to be desired.  I would personally seek out more monochrome colored armors like Onyx and Mantis whenever possible.  

But if you look at her casual outfit, the shoulders are the only parts that make her look like she's wearing any kind of armor at all.  The top is clearly a jacket or tunic of some sort, with a rakishly askew beltloosely hung on her hips.  The tops of her legs look to be white.  I guess those are pants, but with the thigh high boots, it looks more like some kind of underclothes.  Very unfortunate look.  It's not Miranda or Samara bad.  But I'd be left hoping Cerberus has a sense of humor, as her only chance of survival would be if they fell over laughing.

I went back and looked at the old Phoenix armor.  Yes it's one of those armors with the rather distressing colors and patterns.  But even medium armor appears to have plating on the chest, arms, and legs.  And a collar that goes up to the chin.  

Speaking of elevators: Have you ever seen the pose she sometimes strikes in one of her idle animations and then compared it to the pose, they chose for the concept art.
Yeah, I would have loved an interrupt for that: "Stop that!"
But again, the pose is nothing new for Ashley.

I haven't seen such a gesture from Ashley on the elevators or other idle animations.  I confess, though that I don't pay much attention to them.  But if that's the gesture she has, I'd be inclined to agree.  It looks like she broke something and can't stand upright anymore.

Getting the urge to start another ME1 playthrough...

When you compare the "casual outfit" to the great casual crew wear of the SR1, then I have to agree, that it isn't as tight and I want to add that this is probably one of my favourite outfits in the entire series so far, I would cut my beautiful hair off to have that back!

Agreed,   Cerberus casual looked like a Little League team in comparison.

The real Barbie can be whoever we want her to be, but we sure can't do that with Ashley, though we can push her development in a certain direction. A certain kind of outfit doesn't make a doll either.
But I admit, I always liked to try different outfits on video game characters, in a way they are just dolls we play with, more to the point, they are somewere in between characters in more traditional forms of narration and dolls we play with, imo.

The thing about Barbie dolls is, whatever role they get put in, they're designed to be ridiculously, unnaturally beautiful.  Dream House Realtor Barbie, Tennis Star Barbie, Axe-Murderer Barbie,  It's all Barbie.  just in different outfits.  With Ash's casual outfit, she's almost like Mass Effect barbie (only a brunette) A Spectre, but one that's ridiculously dressed to look as attractive as possible.  Rather than relying what seh already had.  In ME1, she could look attractive without a tight outfit, an open collar, or even flowing locks of hair.  Though that last bit I don't mind.

Oh, and Kaidan is standing very self assured, calm and strong, something very sexy in a man. Just a little something extra to think about.

He's also dressed to take on an entire platoon of batarians all by himself.  

[Nashiktal]

What I don't get is why we can't have an armored kaiden and an armored ashley to begin with. Kaiden was the one who admired the asari for their reliance on speed over armor, while ashley scoffed at said asari and expressed her wish for heavy armor.

So why is kaiden suddenly dressed like a tank and ashley in a rubber suit?

Add to the fact that ashley's writer left some time ago and hell yes I am going to be concerned.

[CptData]

Nashiktal wrote...

What I don't get is why we can't have an armored kaiden and an armored ashley to begin with. Kaiden was the one who admired the asari for their reliance on speed over armor, while ashley scoffed at said asari and expressed her wish for heavy armor.

So why is kaiden suddenly dressed like a tank and ashley in a rubber suit?

Add to the fact that ashley's writer left some time ago and hell yes I am going to be concerned.

Lets hope the new writer is as good as the old one. If not - pick some Ashley fans and let them write Ash's character

To be serious: I'd be VERY disappointed if new Ash will end as a shallow character without the deepness of ME1!Ashley. That's just my biggest fear - far more than her "open hair" or "maybe high heels on the battlefield". That's stuff I most likely can change with an option or mod, but I can't change a badly written character.

[MACharlie1]

Nashiktal wrote...

What I don't get is why we can't have an armored kaiden and an armored ashley to begin with. Kaiden was the one who admired the asari for their reliance on speed over armor, while ashley scoffed at said asari and expressed her wish for heavy armor.

So why is kaiden suddenly dressed like a tank and ashley in a rubber suit?

Add to the fact that ashley's writer left some time ago and hell yes I am going to be concerned.

TBH, it's marketing. It's shameful but it's a legitimate way to appeal to the Straight Male Gamer™. 

We have the options of putting Kaidan into a lighter jacket and Ashley into heavier armor in-game so I'm good regardless. 

[SinnersDestiny]

elektrego wrote...


I didn't see this yesterday, when I checked back shortly before bed and this deserves another reply. 
Maybe you should re-read your own posts and look at the vocabulary you were using and than look again at my previous posts.
I will try a last tl;dr of what I have been getting at, before I return to passing the time till march by some simple fanboying/fangirling and redirect the bolded part from your post back at you.

The idea for Ashley to become more feminine isn't out of character, the way they try to achieve this visually is questionable, but it is rather a problem with the whole art style, than with the character and it isn't as bad as some people are making it out to be in some of the rants by using terms that are as unfitting and insulting as real bikini armor.
I just don't want to confuse character design and actual characterization. As for how good/bad it really is going to be, I won't make a judgement until I have played the game.

The only thing I can think of which have the possibly to be offensive to some (although I don't know why) would be "barbie" "plastic" or "porn star". And I don't see a problem in calling out the fake sexual look of the character design, in which a real person would not look like AKA: ficional porn stars or barbie) because it is obviously an unnatural and over the top sexulized look. I really didn't think I could offend anyone since this is the "fantasy woman" look. A look which isn't real. Which is why the barbie metaphor works so well. I think it was you who started jumping down my throat for some reason which I still do not fully understand, as it's not like I could possibly offended anyone as she doesn't actually look realistic.

Unless of course, I am missing something else which I did not intend to be offensive. Again, sorry. If you find more things, just leave it please. I didn't mean to cause any offence to any real living person by saying that a character who doesn't look realistic because her look is sexulized beyond belief, looks fake and I like her more natural look. I am just stating how she looks (apart from giving my reasons as to why she isn't one of my fave characters, which isn't predudice, as she really doesn't act very kindly to other species, don't want to cause any arguments about this either, I just wanted to explain why, me not being a huge fan of Ashley has nothing to do with her new design, I was not hating on the character, I can sometimes be too blunt). I am not judging how she acts and her personality based on this design. I am also not saying I hate the character. I don't hate any character. I just find her personality too much for me. I am saying I don't like this new design for reasons stated above and I agree with the OP.

I do agree that I can see her becoming more feminine, it is obvious that she can be. Just not in the way of the new design. I think it's out of character and from what I have seen, I don't like it one bit. I hope they tone it down.

If you don't agree on what I am saying then that is fine. That is your opinion. But I still hold mine and I am not intentionally trying to offend or hurt anyone in reality by saying this. I am sorry, this is just my opinion on a fictional character design. I do not mean to offend anyone in real life. It was not meant to be taken that way.

Can we just part ways or something? You can reply if you want to, but this will be my final post on this topic. I don't like heated debates/arguing and I never intended for it to go this far. I apologize for any indecent behaviour or whatever I said to cause offense on my side. If you really want to know, it is hard for me to say what I truly mean and I can accedently cause stupid situations like this. So I apologise for my harsh wording. I really do not intend to cause offense.

OK so:

End.

I will shut up. I'm out for good. :/

Modifié par SinnersDestiny, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:37 .

[europe2champion]

Paula Deen wrote...

I think her ME1 and ME2 appearance is attractive. I think her ME3 appearance is ugly and demeaning (Miranda is probably the only one who can pull off wearing the most impractical outfit for combat and not seem like an idiot).

I think her hair looks horrible, and her face seems to just plain look worse (or maybe that's just due to the hair).

I'm kind of curious if I'm alone in that opinion.

I'm with you on this one. Couldn't agree more.

[CptData]

She doesn't look much different from ME1!Ashley in that screenshot.
A bit tweaked, yes, but not "ugly".

[Ravensword]

CptData wrote...



She doesn't look much different from ME1!Ashley in that screenshot.
A bit tweaked, yes, but not "ugly".

It must be a bad angle.

[Voronwer]

Ashley was pretty much my favourite character in this series. A tough, no bull**** soldier girl. I just loved her in ME1 and didn't think twice about romancing her. (Even did the gender tweak to romance her with fem!Shep.) I did a lot of eyerolling at the pink armour (srsly? srsly?) but other than that, this was the most fun character to me. She had some nice character development and I loved the romance story.

You bet your ass my Shep pined for her in ME2 and refused to look at any of the new girls. In all of her tomboyishness, I thought Ashley was ten times as attractive as Miranda and I loved that Bioware created a character like this. Then I saw a flash of her in ME3 and cringed. All I could think was that they turned her into a second Miranda. I was so disappointed and I'm still weary as hell.

I hope that I'm wrong and while the cap above isn't bad, it isn't exactly Ashley either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hope that it really isn't as bad as it looks at first glance. I'd hate to see this character ruined and I hope the characterisation at least will stay true. My Shep waited a whole game for her to come back to him, after all.

[CptData]

Voronwer: I assure, besides the looks, Ash is still Ash.
Won't go into details here, just in case. She stays Ashley. And if you liked her in ME1, you'll entirely fall for her in ME3.

[europe2champion]

Voronwer wrote...

Ashley was pretty much my favourite character in this series. A tough, no bull**** soldier girl. I just loved her in ME1 and didn't think twice about romancing her. (Even did the gender tweak to romance her with fem!Shep.) I did a lot of eyerolling at the pink armour (srsly? srsly?) but other than that, this was the most fun character to me. She had some nice character development and I loved the romance story.

You bet your ass my Shep pined for her in ME2 and refused to look at any of the new girls. In all of her tomboyishness, I thought Ashley was ten times as attractive as Miranda and I loved that Bioware created a character like this. Then I saw a flash of her in ME3 and cringed. All I could think was that they turned her into a second Miranda. I was so disappointed and I'm still weary as hell.

I hope that I'm wrong and while the cap above isn't bad, it isn't exactly Ashley either. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hope that it really isn't as bad as it looks at first glance. I'd hate to see this character ruined and I hope the characterisation at least will stay true. My Shep waited a whole game for her to come back to him, after all.

You really have a point here. Once again i couldn't agree more. (Except didn't tweak romance with fem Shep, and not going to do it ever.)
+ CptData: I really hope your right. That would save my next year