443 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino who ultimately said that Meredith could, in fact, search the tower?

After being cornered and surrounded by an army? Too little, too late.

I suppose in the end, it may not matter. You may be murderers, but you're also failures. You can't stop Anders from sparking the revolution, you can't keep the templars together with the Chantry, you can't squelch the mages at all, just make the world in Kirkwall a little bit worse.

[IanPolaris]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino who ultimately said that Meredith could, in fact, search the tower?

After being cornered and surrounded by an army? Too little, too late.

Not true.  Meridith had ample opportunity and more than enough reason to think a Right of Annulment was unjustified.  Knight Captain Cullen is no softie on mages and HE thinks it's unjustified.

The bottom line is that Meredith wanted to slaughter all mages no matter what, and this was a convenient excuse.  Meredith never wanted a peaceful solution and indeed worked hard to insure there wouldn't be one.

-Polaris

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

I suppose in the end, it may not matter. You may be murderers, but you're also failures. You can't stop Anders from sparking the revolution, you can't keep the templars together with the Chantry, you can't squelch the mages at all, just make the world in Kirkwall a little bit worse.

Except you don't know you'll fail without metagame?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 août 2011 - 08:24 .

[Ryzaki]

Yes what a failure for us being railroaded by the devs. 

Ah well. Won't have to deal with Hawke in the next game most likely. WIll be nice to have someone who isn't just bufetted by the winds of fate. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 août 2011 - 08:26 .

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes what a failure for us being railroaded by the devs.

That's really what it comes down to isn't it?

-Polaris

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes what a failure for us being railroaded by the devs.

That's really what it comes down to isn't it?

-Polaris

Snark detector's broken. (so can't tell if snark)

But all endgame could've been avoided by tossing Anders at Meredith's feet and saying he wanted to plant something in the Chantry. (as well as him being an abomination). I doubt Meredith would've did anything other than behead him. According to her the only reason she didn't in the first place was because he was friends with the Champion. Not to mention Cullen holding the idiot ball when Hawke warns him about Anders. 

Elthina's always been a fool so that needn't change. Cullen on the other hand...just bleh. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[IanPolaris]

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes what a failure for us being railroaded by the devs.

That's really what it comes down to isn't it?

-Polaris

Snark detector's broken. (so can't tell if snark)

But all endgame could've been avoided by tossing Anders at Meredith's feet and saying he wanted to plant something in the Chantry. (as well as him being an abomination). I doubt Meredith would've did anything other than behead him. According to the only reason she didn't was because he was friends with the Champion. Or Cullen not holding the idiot ball when Hawke warns him about the Chantry. 

Elthina's always been a fool so that needn't change. Cullen on the other hand...just bleh. 

I was dead serious.  It does come down to an poorly executed Act III railroad.  I can think of a half-dozen ways that an active Hawke with his known political connections and martial power should have been able to stop what happened dead in it's tracks or at least mitigated the worst of the consequences and we aren't allowed to do any of it (same with Hawke's mum).

-Polaris

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Yes what a failure for us being railroaded by the devs.

That's really what it comes down to isn't it?

-Polaris

Snark detector's broken. (so can't tell if snark)

But all endgame could've been avoided by tossing Anders at Meredith's feet and saying he wanted to plant something in the Chantry. (as well as him being an abomination). I doubt Meredith would've did anything other than behead him. According to the only reason she didn't was because he was friends with the Champion. Or Cullen not holding the idiot ball when Hawke warns him about the Chantry. 

Elthina's always been a fool so that needn't change. Cullen on the other hand...just bleh. 

I was dead serious.  It does come down to an poorly executed Act III railroad.  I can think of a half-dozen ways that an active Hawke with his known political connections and martial power should have been able to stop what happened dead in it's tracks or at least mitigated the worst of the consequences and we aren't allowed to do any of it (same with Hawke's mum).

-Polaris

Agreed. Act III was so poorly handled. I think it's safe to say that most people on here have at least a half-dozen ways that Act III should've been handled (myself among them).

Bah....

[Huntress]

Dave of Canada wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

If even one mage was innocent, then following Meredith is morally rephrensible as is collective punishment.  Bottom line.

-Polaris

If even one mage was a blood mage, then following Orsino is negligent.

IF if if, yet there is no prove that the gallows is full of blood mages, not even when the battle start none of this mages uses blood magic to repeal the templars, at the end anyone who goes killing mages in prisions cells are just good at following orders of a nut case!
And about being the champion of kirkwall.. the mages in the gallows are not a threat to kirkwall or anyone they are already caged, whatever this champion think was just* (*guided by truth, reason, justice, and fairness) for his/her actions.. is a sick lie, it shows he doens't know about  justice or truth, and is good for 1 thing killing.

 Anyway all I wished for was that meredith should had survived that encounter if sided with her same goes with orsino, is a shame bioware didn't have time to create 1 epic battle for the end and keep orsino or Meredith alive  at the end of act3. 
Oh well next DA is going to be all new and probably we will rage about it, Im sure nothing that happen in Kirkwall will make anything big on the next game, meh, a new character won't give much thoughts about anything! rofl.

Modifié par Huntress, 15 août 2011 - 08:46 .

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino who ultimately said that Meredith could, in fact, search the tower?

After being cornered and surrounded by an army? Too little, too late.

Technically the mages had the advantage. Meredith tells them to go back in the Tower while she waits for her men to arrive by boat.

The Mages could've used the corridor as a funnel for any Templars coming through and could've sunk the boats. And Templars wearing heavy plate armor aren't really good swimmers.

The mages had the advantage there. While the Templars had strength in numbers, the mages had better positioning.

Sadly, it doesn't matter because of what happened.

[Ryzaki]

IanPolaris wrote...
I was dead serious.  It does come down to an poorly executed Act III railroad.  I can think of a half-dozen ways that an active Hawke with his known political connections and martial power should have been able to stop what happened dead in it's tracks or at least mitigated the worst of the consequences and we aren't allowed to do any of it (same with Hawke's mum).

-Polaris

Agreed. Or if Hawke was mage aligned helped speed it along and make the blast more impactful.

le sigh.  

[Dave of Canada]

Huntress wrote...

IF if if, yet there is no prove that the gallows is full of blood mages, not even when the battle start none of this mages uses blood magic to repeal the templars, at the end anyone who goes killing mages in prisions cells are just good at following orders of a nut case!

So all those blood mages and demons roaming the streets are part of my imagination?

[CrimsonZephyr]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Huntress wrote...

IF if if, yet there is no prove that the gallows is full of blood mages, not even when the battle start none of this mages uses blood magic to repeal the templars, at the end anyone who goes killing mages in prisions cells are just good at following orders of a nut case!

So all those blood mages and demons roaming the streets are part of my imagination?

When the majority of the Circle mages were locked in the Circle? I think we can blame some of that on the usual blood mage cabals that are already a mainstay in Lowtown.

As for the Circle mages themselves, you see a group of mages in the streets in Lowtown fighting with exclusively legal magic. Then there's the group in the Gallows courtyard, and then the group you fight with, including Alain and Emile. None of whom use blood magic.

So, no, the blood mages didn't constitute a majority of those seen in the city.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

When the majority of the Circle mages were locked in the Circle? I think we can blame some of that on the usual blood mage cabals that are already a mainstay in Lowtown.

As for the Circle mages themselves, you see a group of mages in the streets in Lowtown fighting with exclusively legal magic. Then there's the group in the Gallows courtyard, and then the group you fight with, including Alain and Emile. None of whom use blood magic.

So, no, the blood mages didn't constitute a majority of those seen in the city.

Hell, the only time I saw blood mages and abominations in any number was in Act 3, when Meredith was in possesion of her giant red lyrium ****** and was certafiably bwahahahaha batsh*t at that point. But even then, the mages were only a fraction of the assorted crazies running around Kirkwall that kept attacking me. I got attacked more by thugs, pirates, raiders, slavers, and freaking hobo wino elves than I did mages in Acts 1 and 2. 

I even got attacked by more templars in the whole game than I did mages or abominations.

[TEWR]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

When the majority of the Circle mages were locked in the Circle? I think we can blame some of that on the usual blood mage cabals that are already a mainstay in Lowtown.

As for the Circle mages themselves, you see a group of mages in the streets in Lowtown fighting with exclusively legal magic. Then there's the group in the Gallows courtyard, and then the group you fight with, including Alain and Emile. None of whom use blood magic.

So, no, the blood mages didn't constitute a majority of those seen in the city.

Hell, the only time I saw blood mages and abominations in any number was in Act 3, when Meredith was in possesion of her giant red lyrium ****** and was certafiably bwahahahaha batsh*t at that point. But even then, the mages were only a fraction of the assorted crazies running around Kirkwall that kept attacking me. I got attacked more by thugs, pirates, raiders, slavers, and freaking hobo wino elves than I did mages in Acts 1 and 2. 

I even got attacked by more templars in the whole game than I did mages or abominations.

 Red Lyrium ****** .
 
Must. Remember. That. Joke.

I'm also going to be unable to see it as anything else now because I bet that's what Meredith does with it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2011 - 09:58 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

When the majority of the Circle mages were locked in the Circle? I think we can blame some of that on the usual blood mage cabals that are already a mainstay in Lowtown.

As for the Circle mages themselves, you see a group of mages in the streets in Lowtown fighting with exclusively legal magic. Then there's the group in the Gallows courtyard, and then the group you fight with, including Alain and Emile. None of whom use blood magic.

So, no, the blood mages didn't constitute a majority of those seen in the city.

Hell, the only time I saw blood mages and abominations in any number was in Act 3, when Meredith was in possesion of her giant red lyrium ****** and was certafiably bwahahahaha batsh*t at that point. But even then, the mages were only a fraction of the assorted crazies running around Kirkwall that kept attacking me. I got attacked more by thugs, pirates, raiders, slavers, and freaking hobo wino elves than I did mages in Acts 1 and 2. 

I even got attacked by more templars in the whole game than I did mages or abominations.

 Red Lyrium ****** .
 
Must. Remember. That. Joke.

I'm also going to be unable to see it as anything else now because I bet that's what Meredith does with it.

Agreed.

I was dying for the option to tell Meredith that she seriously needed to get laid.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 15 août 2011 - 10:00 .

[Tirfan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

 Red Lyrium ****** .
 
Must. Remember. That. Joke.

I'm also going to be unable to see it as anything else now because I bet that's what Meredith does with it.

LOL. I'm waiting for someone to draw picture of Meredith in action after this. It must happen.

[GavrielKay]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Protecting Kirkwall is the Champion's duty, regardless of how much blood must be on your hands.

One, Hawke was Champion in name only for just about the entire game as s/he has precious little actual influence.

Two, I consider the caged mages of the circle to require more protection than the random citizens of Kirkwall who can leave if they wish.  Thugs and rioters deserve what they get.  Circle mages kept prisoner for life by the Chantry deserve to be protected when their Chantry overlords turn insane and come to wipe them out.

The position that innocent mages are less innocent than anyone else baffles me.

[IanPolaris]

GavrielKay wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Protecting Kirkwall is the Champion's duty, regardless of how much blood must be on your hands.

One, Hawke was Champion in name only for just about the entire game as s/he has precious little actual influence.

Two, I consider the caged mages of the circle to require more protection than the random citizens of Kirkwall who can leave if they wish.  Thugs and rioters deserve what they get.  Circle mages kept prisoner for life by the Chantry deserve to be protected when their Chantry overlords turn insane and come to wipe them out.

The position that innocent mages are less innocent than anyone else baffles me.

Not only that but the innocent circle mages who have committed as far as anyone knows no crime is part of the Kirkwall that you are supposed to protect as Champion.

When it comes down to it, if you are tasked to protect Kirkwall no matter what then the choice is clear.  The circle mages aren't an immediate threat (having already been locked down), but Meredith is going to slaughter them anyway for a crime they didn't commit.  That means your duty is to protec the innocent, i.e. the circle.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Tirfan wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

 Red Lyrium ****** .
 
Must. Remember. That. Joke.

I'm also going to be unable to see it as anything else now because I bet that's what Meredith does with it.

LOL. I'm waiting for someone to draw picture of Meredith in action after this. It must happen.

Please....don't.  I saw in another thread enough Meredith-Orsino "interaction pictures" (esp post transformation Meredith/Orsino "interaction pictures") to last an eternity.  My brain will never be clean again.....

-Polaris

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The way meredith was so lovingly caressing that damned thing, during her lol rants in the final battle, I was half expecting her to start pole dancing on her sword.

@Ian Polaris: Which thread? Especially if it involves sexytime between Harvestino and lyrium poo Meredith.

What can I say, I'm a very, very disturbed person.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The lockdown in the Circle was clearly ineffectual, since the Circle was practically leaking mages. At the same time, mages on the outside kept pressuring the Templars, making sure the Templars couldn't effectively shut down the leak, without opening outside for more apostates.

[Dave of Canada]

GavrielKay wrote...

Thugs and rioters deserve what they get.

You're right.

That's why the mages deserve to die.

[TEWR]

GavrielKay wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Protecting Kirkwall is the Champion's duty, regardless of how much blood must be on your hands.

One, Hawke was Champion in name only for just about the entire game as s/he has precious little actual influence.

Two, I consider the caged mages of the circle to require more protection than the random citizens of Kirkwall who can leave if they wish.  Thugs and rioters deserve what they get.  Circle mages kept prisoner for life by the Chantry deserve to be protected when their Chantry overlords turn insane and come to wipe them out.

The position that innocent mages are less innocent than anyone else baffles me.

Hawke has some influence, though it's very poorly done because his rise to Champion was pathetic. He's able to form an alliance with Ser Marlein Selbrech and the nobility follow Hawke like lemmings if he speaks out against Orsino/Meredith.

But that influence amounted to nothing in game, as it wasn't shown anywhere else. He never called upon them or anything.

[GavrielKay]

Dave of Canada wrote...
So all those blood mages and demons roaming the streets are part of my imagination?

Well, Hawke isn't inside the circle of Magi until the very end.  So, all the blood mages roaming the streets and throwing themselves on Hawke's sword are not circle mages.  So, imagination or not, their actions shouldn't count against the circle.  Remember there are hundreds of mages in the circle itself.  There is no reason to believe that all or even most of them would condone what's happening in the streets.

Once you reach the end game and Hawke is inside the circle, there's an RoA going on - and all bets are off as to the behavior of folks who are under a death sentence.  Once they've been declared guilty of being alive, they have precious little reason to follow Chantry law.