131 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Right.  I'm sure that quad-strand DNA was totally compatible.  To say nothing of potential genitalia issues.

Play "Destroy All Humans". It's exactly what happened.

OK.  How is that relevant to Mass Effect?

[Kaiser Shepard]

didymos1120 wrote...

annihilator27 wrote...

I dont think the Reapers are going to like it when they found out their Relay was no longer considered a "Planet"

Well, they're not going to because the relay was inside Charon. You know: Pluto's moon.  That was never called a planet in the first place.

That's no moon...

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

OK.  How is that relevant to Mass Effect?

It isn't. Don't be a jerk.

[Sisterofshane]

marshalleck wrote...

We had an interesting discussion on this topic not long ago. I think there's more to the Charon relay being frozen than just natural accumulation of dust and ice. Pluto and Charon are in the Kuiper Belt, which is a massive debris field left over from the creation of our solar system. It's mostly methane, water, and dust with a small amount of metals. So it would make sense that ice and dust and debris would collect on the relay over time, but one of the conclusions we reached in the other thread was that it seemed to accumulate an awful lot (the real Charon is estimated to have a 750 mile diameter for example) awfully quickly, and also it's strange that seemingly no other relay ever got encased like that. Do relays have self-cleaning mechanisms to keep them free of collecting cosmic junk? If so, why didn't Charon's work?

It might not have purposefully been encased, but very likely the maintence mechanism could have purposefully shut off.  This would have been much easier then moving that amount of water around the charon relay, and could have potentially been done quickly enough to have been an emergency contingency for when the endtimes came down upone the Protheans (can anybody say Reapers?).

In fact, I rather like my theory.  The Protheans knew enough about a mass relay to build one, so why could they not know enough to shut off the maintanence systems?  Also, they were smart enough to know that it, potentially like a comet,  the relay would eventually encase itself in a protective layer of ice.  It might have been such an insignificant change that the Reapers would potentially not notice, and at that point in time there was no reason for the Reapers to want anything from the Planet Earth.  The Protheans,  foreseeing their eventual demise, and seeing the potential in our species (they were studying us), would have been able to quickly and discreetly take this step to ensure that humanity's future course would not be interrupted until they were ready.

[ThePwener]

Sisterofshane wrote...

*snip*

I don't know....

From what Vigil says, the Protheans didn't get a chance to build one before the Reapers arrived. It seems that the Reapers were late to the party and gave the Protheans a little too much time (estimated 100,000 years - our saving grace) and the Protheans advanced to levels that threatened the Reapers. If they had the time to build a Relay, (1) it would have looked different and (2) they would have used it to escape to another unknown sector and avoid the Reapers.

Thus, you're theory is highly unlikely and illogical. No offense.

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

OK.  How is that relevant to Mass Effect?

It isn't. Don't be a jerk.

Asking for clarification when someone posts something that seems totally random is "being a jerk"? Alright.  *shrug*

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

Asking for clarification when someone posts something that seems totally random is "being a jerk"? Alright.  *shrug*

Okay, sorry, I obviously hurt you're feelings,

*hug*

[Sisterofshane]

ThePwener wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

*snip*

I don't know....

From what Vigil says, the Protheans didn't get a chance to build one before the Reapers arrived. It seems that the Reapers were late to the party and gave the Protheans a little too much time (estimated 100,000 years - our saving grace) and the Protheans advanced to levels that threatened the Reapers. If they had the time to build a Relay, (1) it would have looked different and (2) they would have used it to escape to another unknown sector and avoid the Reapers.

Thus, you're theory is highly unlikely and illogical. No offense.

Actually they did build one.  It was called the conduit.  It was what enabled Saren and Shep to get inside of the Citadel from Ilos.  So, since they were able to construct a working prototype, theoretically they could have been able to know of, and know how to disable, simple systems and mechanisms involved with the mass relays that the Reapers had built.

And I always take offense to being called "illogical", for future reference.  I don't object to the "highly unlikely" part, that's all a matter of opinion.

I'll let you off the hook this time .

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

Okay, sorry, I obviously hurt you're feelings,

*hug*

No, wasn't that. I just found it puzzling. 

[ThePwener]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Actually they did build one.  It was called the conduit.  It was what enabled Saren and Shep to get inside of the Citadel from Ilos.  So, since they were able to construct a working prototype, theoretically they could have been able to know of, and know how to disable, simple systems and mechanisms involved with the mass relays that the Reapers had built.

And I always take offense to being called "illogical", for future reference.  I don't object to the "highly unlikely" part, that's all a matter of opinion.

I'll let you off the hook this time .

Wrong.

After coming out of stasis, the Protheans spent years studying the Relays. When they used the Conduit, they weren't 100% sure that it would function properly, or even at all. Point is, they didn't know how to make one prior to the invasion.

I'll let YOU off the hook this time. Go talk to Vigil again.

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Okay, sorry, I obviously hurt you're feelings,

*hug*

No, wasn't that. I just found it puzzling. 

Now Im really confused.

[Dean_the_Young]

didymos1120 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Okay, sorry, I obviously hurt you're feelings,

*hug*

No, wasn't that. I just found it puzzling. 

Maybe you're just a jerk on general principle?

I mean, if there were more jerks like you around, the world would be a better place.

[ThePwener]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I mean, if there were more jerks like you around, the world would be a better place.

I can't argue that.

[Sisterofshane]

ThePwener wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Actually they did build one.  It was called the conduit.  It was what enabled Saren and Shep to get inside of the Citadel from Ilos.  So, since they were able to construct a working prototype, theoretically they could have been able to know of, and know how to disable, simple systems and mechanisms involved with the mass relays that the Reapers had built.

And I always take offense to being called "illogical", for future reference.  I don't object to the "highly unlikely" part, that's all a matter of opinion.

I'll let you off the hook this time .

Wrong.

After coming out of stasis, the Protheans spent years studying the Relays. When they used the Conduit, they weren't 100% sure that it would function properly, or even at all. Point is, they didn't know how to make one prior to the invasion.

I'll let YOU off the hook this time. Go talk to Vigil again.

That's not the way it happened.  The Research facility on Ilos was SPECIFICALLY BUILT by the Protheans in order to build a prototype mass relay.  That's why it was so top-secret that even the Reapers never found it.  Once the Scientists were revived, they realized the plight of their species, spent a few decades trying to find a way to stop the cycle, and then came up with the idea to "reprogram" the Keepers to not respond to any signal outside of the citadel itself.  They then used the conduit to take a one way trip to the citadel, reprogrammed the Keepers, and then died a presumably slow death of starvation.

So, by the time the Reapers invaded and Ilos went "dark", they either had finished the relay, or had been so close to finishing the relay that they knew it would work. In fact, they had to know it would work in order for their plan to reprogram the keepers to hold any merit.

Perhaps it is you that should talk to Vigil again.

[ThePwener]

Sisterofshane wrote...

So, by the time the Reapers invaded and Ilos went "dark", they either had finished the relay, or had been so close to finishing the relay that they knew it would work. In fact, they had to know it would work in order for their plan to reprogram the keepers to hold any merit.

You're virtually making stuff up at this point. The Protheans were working on blind faith alone.

[Sisterofshane]

ThePwener wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

So, by the time the Reapers invaded and Ilos went "dark", they either had finished the relay, or had been so close to finishing the relay that they knew it would work. In fact, they had to know it would work in order for their plan to reprogram the keepers to hold any merit.

You're virtually making stuff up at this point. The Protheans were working on blind faith alone.

Do you not know anything about the development of prototypes?  I'm assuming it worked the same way with the Protheans as it does now, but typically a prototype is not constructed unless it's developers have a reasonably good idea that said prototype could work.

So, they were not working merely on blind faith, but on the fact that they had a good chance.
And it obviously worked, or there would be no game to play.

So therefore, they HAD the knowledge of Mass Relay Technology BEFORE the facility on Ilos was forced underground by the Reaper invasion, meaning that they STUDIED the mass relays and could have presumably known about, and shut down, the charon relay's maintenence systems.

You can't twist the facts of the game to suit your argument.  The Protheans knew how to build relays.  End of story.

[ThePwener]

Of course they knew how to build one, it worked! They didn't know it would though. That's the kicker.

A prototype does not mean "something that will definitly work". That's why it's a prototype. As in for testing.

[Sisterofshane]

ThePwener wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Actually they did build one.  It was called the conduit.  It was what enabled Saren and Shep to get inside of the Citadel from Ilos.  So, since they were able to construct a working prototype, theoretically they could have been able to know of, and know how to disable, simple systems and mechanisms involved with the mass relays that the Reapers had built.

And I always take offense to being called "illogical", for future reference.  I don't object to the "highly unlikely" part, that's all a matter of opinion.

I'll let you off the hook this time .

Wrong.

After coming out of stasis, the Protheans spent years studying the Relays. When they used the Conduit, they weren't 100% sure that it would function properly, or even at all. Point is, they didn't know how to make one prior to the invasion.

I'll let YOU off the hook this time. Go talk to Vigil again.

Look at your post above, then look at this one I quoted, the bolded underlined part in particular.

You told me that the Protheans had no knowledge of the Relays before being frozen.  I proved you wrong.  That was the entire point of the argument to being with.

I'm not here to argue the exact "working" state of general prototypes with you.  If they knew how to build a prototype, then they knew quite a bit about mass relays in general.  It is therefore, possible to assume that they could disable systems within a Relay, systems such as a maintenence system.

My original theory remains valid.  It is not a said fact, but unless someone has a more factually based argument then yours to present, then I am sticking to that point.

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 08 août 2011 - 04:59 .

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

Of course they knew how to build one, it worked! They didn't know it would though. That's the kicker.

A prototype does not mean "something that will definitly work". That's why it's a prototype. As in for testing.

You've moved the goalposts. Here's your original claim:

After coming out of stasis, the Protheans spent years studying the Relays.

Vigil does not support that at all. It contradicts it: they spent the years post-stasis studying the keeper signal problem.

[Skirata129]

eh, bioware might be foreshadowing something. why else would they name the relay after the boatman that transports the souls of the dead to the underworld?

[Sisterofshane]

didymos1120 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Of course they knew how to build one, it worked! They didn't know it would though. That's the kicker.

A prototype does not mean "something that will definitly work". That's why it's a prototype. As in for testing.

You've moved the goalposts. Here's your original claim:

After coming out of stasis, the Protheans spent years studying the Relays.

Vigil does not support that at all. It contradicts it: they spent the years post-stasis studying the keeper signal problem.

This +1.  Thank you Didymos

[Sisterofshane]

Skirata129 wrote...

eh, bioware might be foreshadowing something. why else would they name the relay after the boatman that transports the souls of the dead to the underworld?

 

They named the relay after Pluto's moon, Charon, which actually exists in real life.

And the fact that the Planet (if you can call it that anymore) is named "Pluto" (god of the underworld) means that it was aptly named.

Still, a very good and interesting parallel.  I wonder if the writers had meant it to happen...

[MrChowderClam]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

eh, bioware might be foreshadowing something. why else would they name the relay after the boatman that transports the souls of the dead to the underworld?

 

They named the relay after Pluto's moon, Charon, which actually exists in real life.

And the fact that the Planet (if you can call it that anymore) is named "Pluto" (god of the underworld) means that it was aptly named.

Still, a very good and interesting parallel.  I wonder if the writers had meant it to happen...

Not to mention Cerberus, the three-headed dog who guards the gates of the underworld.

On topic: I like the idea that the Protheans somehow managed to encase the relay in ice (I think your theory that the protheans somehow managed to shut down it's maintenance systems makes more sense than the protheans moving all the water from Mars). 

That said, the dissertation on the steam forums also has some really interesting points that I think tie in to your parts of your theory.  Mimaz98 bring up a really good point - logically, it makes sense that the Protheans had more than one operation going on to try to stop the Reapers. From a storyteller's perspective, it's also quite poetic that the Protheans, knowing that they were going to die, attempted to break the cycle by "tampering" with humanity:

Mimaz98  wrote...

To backtrack a little, I think there’s something poignant in the idea of the Protheans trying to break the cycle of extinction by forcing lesser races across the galaxy to develop along their paths instead! What better way to forever stop the Reapers if not by influencing the development of a potential spacefaring race away from Reaper influence? In this sense, the current galactic community does indeed owe its state of existence more to the Protheans than the Reapers.

To the OP: I'm not too keen with the idea that Shepard somehow holds the cipher to a secret prothean message on earth, but it makes sense.

Modifié par MrChowderClam, 08 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[Sisterofshane]

@ MrChowderClam, good point on the name "Cerberus"!

And I give my thumbs up to Mimaz's dissertation. It really made me start thinking about the games from a more literary stand point, and made my gaming experience as a whole a lot more enjoyable.

[Skirata129]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

eh, bioware might be foreshadowing something. why else would they name the relay after the boatman that transports the souls of the dead to the underworld?

 

They named the relay after Pluto's moon, Charon, which actually exists in real life.

And the fact that the Planet (if you can call it that anymore) is named "Pluto" (god of the underworld) means that it was aptly named.

Still, a very good and interesting parallel.  I wonder if the writers had meant it to happen...

well, I meant in the sense that the moon was chosen for it's name. they could easily gone with an unnamed or numbered icy asteroid in the belt and avoided all the mythological connotations if they had so desired.