147 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Quick note to the moderators (especially javierabegazo).
I know there is somewhat of a stigma attached to posting stuff on these forums that aren't just outright praising Bioware and ME3, but please read this article fully before deciding to delete this thread.

Oh I wouldn't be so dramatic. Seriously.

I've seen plenty of threads noting the many problems that exist with Mass Effect, and many of them are well written and thought out. And then there's just the run of the mill "I've been here since blah blah blah, so that means my opinion matters more than yours!". 

In any case, I don't see what was so special of the article, It feels like just a simple rehash of many of the things that have been discussed on here, even with the same hyperbole (DA2).  The article is meh-worthy at best. But that's just my opinion.

[SirBlakhawk]

A big reason why the RPG elements aren't advertised is due to a lot of RPG and story aspects would be spoilers if they are given. I don't understand how people can't seem to understand that. Hence why they show a demo showing you that gameplay is like they promised and give you a few screenshots showing you that RPG aspects are in the direction of what they promised. Yes they don't advertised it, but I'm glad they don't. I would be pissed if I saw all the RPG elements that I've been waiting to see in the game, only to see it in forums and interviews. So is the solution to take a video of someone playing the WHOLE game and then watching it closely and knit-picking if it does include what they promised? You have voiced your opinions so many times and all over the forums and other media. They get it, they get that you want more RPG and you don't want a DA2 repeat, and hence why the promised repeatedly that they'll change that and try their best to make you happy. So all we can do is wait, and if the game doesn't include something that you wanted, it doesn't mean Bioware forgot, it means they didn't want it in the game, because they made the decision that it wouldn't work with their creation.

Not defending Bioware but I don't understand asking for more RPG-marketing. I want to play the game and actually see how the weapon mods work and leveling system etc., and go 'Wow, I can do all that?! This game is awesome.' At most of what they could show without ruining the game is the weapons or maybe the mod pieces. I don't know... I'm all for customization, actually the more the better. But I'm also all for being patient and seeing how the game will turn out whilst playing it (if worried, then wait till your friend buys it and says 'ME3 is the best game ever!' then buy it).

[HTTP 404]

ThePwener wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

whats an rpg?

Rocket-propelled grenade?

Repeating plasma gun?

Rotary pulse generator?

Reflection phase grating?

Role playing game? Nah.......

I think I remember playing an RPG that would have had a turian air quote that.

[HTTP 404]

It really shouldn't matter what its called. Mass Effect is a good game. Game "Experts" can call it a sports game for all I care. Im not just an "rpg" fan. I am a video game fan.

[StarWarsLord]

Bioware is not losing its touch, in fact its getting more and more fans everyday, and the games is just awe inspiring

[Shockwave81]

jreezy wrote...

LGTX wrote...

"A great many BioWare fans – myself included – fell in love with games like Mass Effect precisely because they are not Gears of War."

I stopped reading there. I fell in love with Mass Effect because it was Mass Effect, not because it was an "RPG" or "something new" or NOT something else, etc.

Sorry for not contributing fully to the discussion, just wanted to voice this.

What you said. I love Mass Effect because it's Mass Effect.

I'm with these two, except I (regrettably) read the whole article.  I was expecting some kind of masterpiece, but alas, I've seen it all before on BSN.  I don't see why that article deserves any more attention than any of the dozens/hundreds of similar threads and posts that are stored here?

I would really like to know how many people (see also: 'hardcore fans') were compelled to play (and replay) Mass Effect because of the inventory and skill point allocation systems.  For me, both games thus far have been the same in 'core' ways:

1: Multiple classes to choose from? Check
2: Do I have the ability to customise my character's appearance? Check
3: Do I have the ability to form relationships with my crew members? Check
4: Do I have the ability to make decisions with immediate and/or far reaching implications? Check
5: Multiple weapons and skills to choose from? Check

Unfortunately (as we all know) both games have also had their own form of redundant/cumbersome features

Mass Effect:
1: Inventory filled to brimming point with pointless items? Check
2: In-game currency that can't actually be used for anything other than more useless items (once you've obtained your desired armor/weapons of course)? Check
3: Aimless wandering around sparse maps with few points of interest other than text? Check

Mass Effect 2: 
1: Practically limitless resources available for collection that can't actually be used for anything outside of a few upgrades? Check
2: Aimless wandering around sparse maps with few points of interest other than text? Check

I could go on, but frankly I don't think it's necessary.  There's nothing new to see here, therefore I honestly don't feel that there any point in these threads and articles popping up day after day ad nauseum. BioWare knows that people are worried about ME3.  Let the reviews and player feedback be as good or bad as deserved once we've all seen the final product, but for Heaven's sake, take a chill pill and stop fretting!

[KevShep]

F*** the mainstream! They are always about 5 to 10 years behind the hardcore gamers. For instance games that are to "complex" for todays games will be mainstream in about 5 years or so.

Game devs are one of the main reasons why innovative games are slow coming.....we already have the tech to do these things. The devs are focusing on the mainstream gamers who are scared of innovative/complex games, while we hardcore gamers have to wait about 5 years for a game company to have the balls to make a game that goes against the mainstream, companys like betheasda(TES) and bioware(ME) for example.

Stop buying games like COD(for example) every 6 months, this is the reason game companys are focusing on them. Since they are easy to make and since the majority of gamers(mainstream) are turned off by innovativeness game companys will continue to shell out CRAP like COD that I would not even wipe my a** with.

Modifié par KevShep, 08 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[InkognitoY]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about the gameplay, I just want a deep and meaningful story. Combat is boring and repetitive, and upgrades are 'meh,' I only use them so I can burn past the combat faster.

If they made ME3 a first person shooter, but keep the same character involvement as in ME1, then I really wouldn't care.

[LordNige]

So ME3 has expanded the RPG system, added powers and added weapons customisation but because they also added Cover swapping, rolling and the omniblade its a Gears of war rip off? People should really gain some perspective before they scaremonger. Having played every Bioware game since BG2, I'd have to say stats systems and loot drops work when it fits the game, all they did in ME1 was muddle things, ME2 sorted that.

[Luigitornado]

How was that a good a article?

I could have condensed, packaged it, and had it readily available for a larger readership quicker than it took me to read it.

I have faith in Bioware.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 08 août 2011 - 12:58 .

[dreman9999]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

LGTX wrote...

"A great many BioWare fans – myself included – fell in love with games like Mass Effect precisely because they are not Gears of War."

I stopped reading there. I fell in love with Mass Effect because it was Mass Effect, not because it was an "RPG" or "something new" or NOT something else, etc.

To be honest, I think he is making the exact same point you are, that being, that ME was/is unique.

He is lamenting what he sees as the possible 'loss' of this uniqueness. He attributes this with the "because it is not GoW" phrase.

In short, in reality he is saying exactly what you are. The thrust of that particular point of his is not really about GoW, but about ME's uniqueness (which is, from what I understand, also what you like about the game).

Please read the rest, it is very worth it, imho.

Here's the thing that most of you people complianing about the cover based shooting improvements in ME2......ME1 combat system is a cover base shooter. You go from cover to cover shooting at your enemy. You do more shooting in ME1 than ME2 bacause your powers did not kill your target directly. So why complain when they improved the game? And if you feel your doing more shooting in ME2, theirs a reason....You not driving 50 miles to shoot someone in the face. Everyone who complines about ME2 not being like ME1 forgets the short comings of ME1.

[Jayce]

Going back to the original article he has a few valid points although I don't agree with everything he says.

One of the biggest issues I had with the original Mass Effect was the reuse of locations for side quests. Many people pointed out how immersion breaking and spoiling this was and that on the whole most of us would prefer fewer sidequests with unique locations than an avalanche of dull and boring cookie cutter grind-fests. Casey's Team actually took this on board and all kudos to them for doing so.

But the issue is a wider problem for Bioware. It cropped up again in Dragon Age Origins, especially so in the DLC content. Again I and many others gave the same feedback, but unlike ME2, in DAII it wasn't taken on board, the result was by the last chapter of DAII, I was sick to the hind teeth of Kirkwall and didn't give a damn what happened in the story.

The whole thing felt massively repetitive and the plot felt forced. Shepard is a character that shapes events while Hawke is more like Murphy's ****.

I'm one of those core RPGers people keep mentioning and yes quality of the product does affect wether or not I buy. I've bought all the DLC for Mass Effect 1 and 2 and am eargerly awaiting 3. I did the same with Dragon Age and have regretted it. I wont be purchasing the DAII DLC or DA3

[sholden180]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

This is a VERY good article that I think everyone should read:

http://www.fmvmagazine.com/?p=371



Quick note to the moderators (especially javierabegazo).
I know there is somewhat of a stigma attached to posting stuff on these forums that aren't just outright praising Bioware and ME3, but please read this article fully before deciding to delete this thread.

It is actually VERY balanced and brings up a LOT of very good points imho. So please don't just delete this thread/ban my account.


I think we need a more balanced discussion on these forums. I think it will be better for the community as a whole, much better than only discussing articles/ideas that outright praise Bioware and take the "BW can do no wrong" approach, while deleting/banning anything else that thinks even slightly contrary.

Thanks

I had a long-winded response typed out, but as I was reading it over, I came to the conclusion that it was inflamatory and a bit rude.

It boiled down to a simple statement: BioWare creates stories.

Regardless of genre, regardless of method. It's all about story and we do the men and women who work so hard a great disservice by whining about their chosen method of telling their story.

Do you enjoy playing their games? If you do, then there's no problem. If you don't, there is still no problem. You need not play. It works the same as movies, book, and TV shows. If you don't like it, don't pay attention.

/shrug.

[AlanC9]

javierabegazo wrote...
The article is meh-worthy at best. But that's just my opinion.

Mine too.

[macrocarl]

That article wasn't that good. I mean, I've read better posts here to be honest. Anyway, whatever. RPG's, shooters, jumpers, poopers, I don't care what you call it. So long as the action is fun, the cinematics draw me in and the story is amazing I'm all over it like flies on horse ****! YEE HAW

[RubiconI7]

Biased, but it serves as a friendly warning from all of us who wants to see Bioware keep dishing out fantastic titles. It does indeed deliberately bring out GoW quotes and ignores the assurances of Bioware saying that they will not stray from RPG elements.

However the article itself can be seen as a warning bell to Bioware. If someone writes something like this, chances are people are sensing the misdirection the company has taken.

"there is a danger that seeking to widen your audience too far may result in you abandoning the very things that made you so successful in the first place."

[Thompson family]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Quick note to the moderators (especially javierabegazo).
I know there is somewhat of a stigma attached to posting stuff on these forums that aren't just outright praising Bioware and ME3, but please read this article fully before deciding to delete this thread.

If it wasn't for whining and b****ing, this forum would be five pages long.

EDITED P.S.  Read the article. There hasn't been a new point made in this argument since ME2 came out. It adds nothing.

Modifié par Thompson family, 08 août 2011 - 04:45 .

[AlanC9]

When someone says an article is "good," all it usually means is that he agrees with whoever wrote it.

[Candidate 88766]

zollace wrote...

I had a long-winded response typed out, but as I was reading it over, I came to the conclusion that it was inflamatory and a bit rude.

It boiled down to a simple statement: BioWare creates stories.

Regardless of genre, regardless of method. It's all about story and we do the men and women who work so hard a great disservice by whining about their chosen method of telling their story.

Do you enjoy playing their games? If you do, then there's no problem. If you don't, there is still no problem. You need not play. It works the same as movies, book, and TV shows. If you don't like it, don't pay attention.

/shrug.

Exactly. Bioware has always placed the story ahead of the gameplay when it comes to their games. That doesn't necessarily mean the gameplay will be bad, but Bioware games often have plenty of glitches. The reason we can look past them is because of the story, which is almost always fantastic in Bioware games.

The style of story they are telling with ME works well with fast-paced gameplay, and so they've gone for gameplay in line with modern action-based games. It may not be traditional, but frankly the genre of the gameplay is not and pretty much never will be as important as the story when it comes to a single player game (the only exception I can think of is Portal, where the game was based entirely around the gameplay).

"The reason BioWare has built up such a strong and dedicated fanbase over the years is because its team are so skilled at creating compelling, sophisticated and expansive gameworlds, populated by complex, diverse characters, brimming with wondrous places to explore and ultimately allowing the player to build their own character’s skills and personality, making crucial decisions that shape the story along the way."

This quote from the article sums it up nicely. Its the stories and worlds Bioware creates that the fanbase loves, not the genre of games they make. They haven't made a hardcore RPG for almost 8 years, and even KotOR wasn't really hardcore. Bioware makes good stories - thats what makes their games great. The majority of Mass Effect fans are here for the story and the universe Bioware created. That was why people enjoyed ME1; not because it was an RPG, as nearly all the RPG features were poorly implemented, but because of the stpry and the setting. That is the important bit and while we can argue over ME3's genre til the cows come home, it is ME3's story, not the genre of its gameplay, that will decide whether it lives up to the fan expectation.

[GarrusV4karian]

LGTX wrote...

"A great many BioWare fans – myself included – fell in love with games like Mass Effect precisely because they are not Gears of War."

I stopped reading there. I fell in love with Mass Effect because it was Mass Effect, not because it was an "RPG" or "something new" or NOT something else, etc.

Sorry for not contributing fully to the discussion, just wanted to voice this.

Pretty much same for me.

[sg1fan75]

I love RPG's and I love shooting stuff and using powers as log as the story is good its not short, and I can at least detect elements of an RPG ME3will be a very good Game. DA2 will still be a steaming pile of dung!!!

[Darth Death]

I don't think BioWare will ever retain their former glory...

[KreeCapt]

Darth Death wrote...

I don't think BioWare will ever retain their former glory...

Yeah. They surpassed it.