25 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Sharrah]

Is the general consensus on the forum to still believe the chant(ry) that when the Tevinter Imperium invaded "heaven" to take control of the golden city it was tainted and turned black?  Or has the dialogue with Cory at the end of Legacy at least opened the possibility with some that "the Golden City" was never golden?

Cory's choice of words seem to indicate that the city may have been "Black" when they got there...what if the TI Magisters were decieved and the city that they were actually led to invade was "The Black City".  And rather than tainting the home of the "Elven Gods", they helped to releast the "Forgotten Ones" from the abyss that Dread Wolf tricked them into?

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't know that there is a general consensus one way or the other. Legacy has ignited *a lot* of discussion though, on a variery of topics that include those you have mentioned.

[Sepewrath]

I don't know about all that Dread Wolf stuff, I mean most of these gods if any are real, have to be just fabrications. And I never believed the Chantry version to begin with, it would be stupid to worship a God who unleashed the Blight on everyone for the actions of a few and then just turns a blind eye to it. If this Maker is so loving and helpful like they make him out to be, he would have never done that. I believe Cory's story, whether it was Dumat or someone claiming to be Dumat, someone was whispering in their ear and sent them to an already corrupt city.

[whykikyouwhy]

Ah...I'm compelled to comment further...

The Golden/Black City is a rotten Twinkie. It's golden and fluffy on the outside (from magical locks) but rotten on the inside - it is a veritable Pandora's box holding all of the vile evil bad at bay.

Such is my theory.

[D.Sharrah]

I think that it is entirely too coincidental that so much of the story seems to relvolve around the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones/Elven Gods etc...

I hope that they either continue to expand upon this in DLC or future games.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm still not convinced exactly if Corypheus's words meant the city was black when they arrived or if it turned black when they got there, but in either case this does seem to confirm that the corruption of the Black City appears to be the origin of the taint.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 août 2011 - 05:44 .

[JedTed]

Sepewrath wrote...

I don't know about all that Dread Wolf stuff, I mean most of these gods if any are real, have to be just fabrications. And I never believed the Chantry version to begin with, it would be stupid to worship a God who unleashed the Blight on everyone for the actions of a few and then just turns a blind eye to it. If this Maker is so loving and helpful like they make him out to be, he would have never done that. I believe Cory's story, whether it was Dumat or someone claiming to be Dumat, someone was whispering in their ear and sent them to an already corrupt city.

What if the magisters inadvertantly killed the Maker when they invaded the Golden City(turning it black)?  That is what i took away from Cory's words, when they saw the city was black they returned to Thedas which is when they became darkspawn and began searching for the Old Gods.

Everyone who worshipped the Maker would have no idea that he was dead but they'd continue to worship anyway.

[Wereparrot]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Is the general consensus on the forum to still believe the chant(ry) that when the Tevinter Imperium invaded "heaven" to take control of the golden city it was tainted and turned black?  Or has the dialogue with Cory at the end of Legacy at least opened the possibility with some that "the Golden City" was never golden?

Cory's choice of words seem to indicate that the city may have been "Black" when they got there...what if the TI Magisters were decieved and the city that they were actually led to invade was "The Black City".  And rather than tainting the home of the "Elven Gods", they helped to releast the "Forgotten Ones" from the abyss that Dread Wolf tricked them into?

Maybe the Maker personally corrupted the Golden City because the magisters were not fit to enter it, so that when they did enter it they did not find what they sought.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

JedTed wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

I don't know about all that Dread Wolf stuff, I mean most of these gods if any are real, have to be just fabrications. And I never believed the Chantry version to begin with, it would be stupid to worship a God who unleashed the Blight on everyone for the actions of a few and then just turns a blind eye to it. If this Maker is so loving and helpful like they make him out to be, he would have never done that. I believe Cory's story, whether it was Dumat or someone claiming to be Dumat, someone was whispering in their ear and sent them to an already corrupt city.

What if the magisters inadvertantly killed the Maker when they invaded the Golden City(turning it black)?  That is what i took away from Cory's words, when they saw the city was black they returned to Thedas which is when they became darkspawn and began searching for the Old Gods.

Everyone who worshipped the Maker would have no idea that he was dead but they'd continue to worship anyway.

Worship of the Maker was not common back then. Andraste's Exalted March was centuries after the Magisters' mistake.

[Addai]

Did anyone ever simply accept the Chantry's version as "the way things are"??

[jamesp81]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Is the general consensus on the forum to still believe the chant(ry) that when the Tevinter Imperium invaded "heaven" to take control of the golden city it was tainted and turned black?  Or has the dialogue with Cory at the end of Legacy at least opened the possibility with some that "the Golden City" was never golden?

Cory's choice of words seem to indicate that the city may have been "Black" when they got there...what if the TI Magisters were decieved and the city that they were actually led to invade was "The Black City".  And rather than tainting the home of the "Elven Gods", they helped to releast the "Forgotten Ones" from the abyss that Dread Wolf tricked them into?

I don't know that there is a consensus.  For my part, my characters are still mostly subscribing to the chantry view of things, with the caveat that their history probably got a few details wrong.  And the whole mage oppression thing, they have a real problem with that.

IOW, my characters still subscribe to the Andrastian faith but have little use for the current crop of leaders in the chantry itself.  Or templars.

Modifié par jamesp81, 08 août 2011 - 06:26 .

[jamesp81]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm still not convinced exactly if Corypheus's words meant the city was black when they arrived or if it turned black when they got there, but in either case this does seem to confirm that the corruption of the Black City appears to be the origin of the taint.

Or it could be that the black city was the source of it, at least.

Viewed in that light, it doesn't actually much matter if the tevinters were the ones that corrupted it, or simply released the taint inside when they entered it.

[Rifneno]

Addai67 wrote...

Did anyone ever simply accept the Chantry's version as "the way things are"??

If they did, Dragon Age must've been the first RPG they ever played.  Or they have no pattern recognition.

As to the original question, I believe the taint is a twisted form of the elves' lost power.  Legend has it elves were immortal, and all had the gift of magic.  Darkspawn are immortal in the same sense (no aging, death by natural causes) and the few darkspawn with basic intelligence have learned to use the taint as a form of magic in a way no other species can.  Mighty big coincidence that the two things the elves lost the darkspawn have.  As for the golden city, the immortal elves of old used to spend centuries at a time in the Fade.  The golden city was probably theirs, and it became tainted either by the elves own hand, wanting to take the Tevinter humans down with them, or because it was cut off from its people.

[TEWR]

I believe it was never Golden. Or if it was, it wasn't corrupted by Corypheus and his drinking buddies. I believe that when they entered, they became the first Awakened Darkspawn, but not the first Darkspawn in existence.

[D.Sharrah]

Good discussion. I love the amount of intelligent speculation that this community makes...I find myself agreeing with the arguements of alot of the posters (on both sides)...and I think that is one of the best parts of the potential of this question. We still don't know enough to say one way or another, how it is going to turn out. Personally, I am leaning towards the idea of the TIM's being decieved and led to "The Black City" by the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods - and subsequently (and quite unwillingly) re-released them upon the world. The more interesting part to me, is the story tie in with Morrigan and the OGB (and in my cannon run thru the warden) - where exactly did they go when the went into the mirror? Did they travel to "The Golden City" that had been protected (and lost) by the elves?

[Rifneno]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Personally, I am leaning towards the idea of the TIM's being decieved and led to "The Black City" by the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods

The Illusive Man disapproves of this acronym.

[D.Sharrah]

Rifneno wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Personally, I am leaning towards the idea of the TIM's being decieved and led to "The Black City" by the Forgotten Ones/Old Gods

The Illusive Man disapproves of this acronym.

Couldn't resist...

[Gespenst]

Sepewrath wrote...

If this Maker is so loving and helpful like they make him out to be, he would have never done that.

The Maker's always been a bit of a dick.

http://dragonage.wik..._First_Children

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm still not convinced exactly if Corypheus's words meant the city was black when they arrived or if it turned black when they got there, but in either case this does seem to confirm that the corruption of the Black City appears to be the origin of the taint.

I think it must be the latter - that's how Anders interpreted it and I didn't even notice the other way it could be taken until I read this thread.

JedTed wrote...

What if the magisters inadvertantly killed the Maker when they invaded the Golden City(turning it black)?  ...

Everyone who worshipped the Maker would have no idea that he was dead but they'd continue to worship anyway.

Except Andraste didn't come along until after the first blight. I don't think anyone really worshiped the Maker until that. They sort of took for granted that he (or something like him) was there but didn't really care because he didn't do anything - unlike the old gods or the dwarven ancestors.

Rifneno wrote...

As to the original question, I believe the taint is a twisted form of the elves' lost power.  Legend has it elves were immortal, and all had the gift of magic.  Darkspawn are immortal in the same sense (no aging, death by natural causes) and the few darkspawn with basic intelligence have learned to use the taint as a form of magic in a way no other species can.

Twisted elves? So the darkspawn are orcs? Well I always kind of suspected but... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Gespenst, 09 août 2011 - 04:08 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

People are quick to see Fen'harel's hand in a lot of the stories that each of the people have, such as with Andraste, but I think if the Dread Wolf was involved anywhere in these events it might be with the magisters. The Chant of Light says that the Old Gods whispered to the magisters and encouraged them to invade the Golden City, and they seemed to be under the impression that they did as well, but since that apparently ended badly for both them and the Old Gods, it's possible that Fen'harel was the voice that goaded them on. A series of destructive Blights sounds like something more along the lines that he'd want to watch.

[D.Sharrah]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

People are quick to see Fen'harel's hand in a lot of the stories that each of the people have, such as with Andraste, but I think if the Dread Wolf was involved anywhere in these events it might be with the magisters. The Chant of Light says that the Old Gods whispered to the magisters and encouraged them to invade the Golden City, and they seemed to be under the impression that they did as well, but since that apparently ended badly for both them and the Old Gods, it's possible that Fen'harel was the voice that goaded them on. A series of destructive Blights sounds like something more along the lines that he'd want to watch.

That may very well be true...but if "The City" that the Magisters are goaded into invading was in fact the prison that Fen'harel trapped the Old Gods, it would make sense that they would want to decieve someone into breaching its defenses and releasing them as well.

[Torax]

The Dreadwolf jailed them. What goal would he have to free them later? That would be like a Warden handing the prison key to the mass murderer in the prison cell. "Have fun storming Thedas."

[Aradace]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ah...I'm compelled to comment further...

The Golden/Black City is a rotten Twinkie. It's golden and fluffy on the outside (from magical locks) but rotten on the inside - it is a veritable Pandora's box holding all of the vile evil bad at bay.

Such is my theory.

Does that mean if you were to eat it, that it would wreak havoc on your colon as well? lol

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well I'm not really working with the idea that the Forgotten Ones are the Old Gods. I also don't believe that Fen'harel is the Maker. If the dalish are correct in their stories about him, Fen'harel seems to have a tendency to try to eliminate his rivals, and in that the Old Gods could conceivably be similar to the Elven Gods or the Forgotten Ones in that respect. Even though they were sealed away, it's possible he wanted to get rid of them for good or eliminate their influence altogether. If he knew what the trip to the Black/Golden City would result in and knew how the taint operates, then him having a plan to corrupt them into archdemons and cause them to wage war against all life until they were destroyed, it sounds like something he'd be interested in doing. Plus the sheer chaos and destruction caused by a Blight sound like something he'd get a kick out of.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 10 août 2011 - 04:32 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Aradace wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ah...I'm compelled to comment further...

The Golden/Black City is a rotten Twinkie. It's golden and fluffy on the outside (from magical locks) but rotten on the inside - it is a veritable Pandora's box holding all of the vile evil bad at bay.

Such is my theory.

Does that mean if you were to eat it, that it would wreak havoc on your colon as well? lol

It means that if I inhale its rotten fumes long enough, I will go a bit insane from the overspeculation.

Twinkies aren't natural, you see. They are not of the woods. No food should last as long on the shelf as they should. Dark magics are involved there...yes, dark magics, indeed.