103 réponses à ce sujet

[LilyasAvalon]

OdanUrr wrote...

It could very well be a marketing ploy. By generating this much debate over ME3, making fans feel genuinely concerned about the final instalment of the trilogy, if the game is then any good, you just turned it into a great game despite its merits. You know, by carefully lowering fans' expectations of the game, you can turn any game from simply good to great. Just putting it out there. Having said that, I have high hopes for ME3, regardless of what Mr. Silverman said, which can actually be interpreted any number of ways, doomsday being just one variation.

I'm not that worried to be honest. He's obviously the trademan for newer or casual gamers. Now if had been Casey that had said something along these lines....

There's no words to describe the utter horror I'd feel.

[TexasToast712]

I remember everything I did in ME1 mainly because I just played it again. David Silverman should be fired. 

Modifié par TexasToast712, 08 août 2011 - 04:28 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I agree.

And good to see you on here again, I've missed you.

Missed you too, bro.  Still got a month left of dial-up endurance, though.  Rrr.

ANYWAY, for those of us who "forgot" what we did in previous games, seeing the results of our actions should be enough to jog our memory.  For example, if/when the rachni queen says "I, and my children, owe you our lives/You should have killed me when you had the chance," the player will most likely go, "Oh.  Right.  I remember that."  Slap on a little mention of Noveria just in case, and boom!

Really, though, the whole point of the series is that your decisions matter.  And now this bozo is all "Who cares hurr durr?"  You, uh... kind of remember what makes the series unique, right?

[LilyasAvalon]

TexasToast712 wrote...

I remember everything I did in ME2 mainly because I just played it again. David Silverman should be fired. 

I still remember everything I did from ME1.

[TexasToast712]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

I remember everything I did in ME2 mainly because I just played it again. David Silverman should be fired. 

I still remember everything I did from ME1.

Thats what I meant. I edited it. I meant ME1. lol

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

It really is a natural entry point for people: giant alien race launches all-out war, you have to rally the forces of the universe to counter and see if you can take them down. That’s pretty clear. You don’t need to be like: ‘Well, what about when I had this love affair?’ It’s like, who cares? It’s all out war! New people will get it, but existing fans will see the stakes being raised. It will still have levels of nuance – I don’t want to spoil anything – but you’re definitely going to be seeing things that you’ll be like: ‘Oh, I remember that!’ - BioWare Marketing Head David Silverman

I understand everyone has a job to do and that marketing's job is to hype things...  but if I had friended him, he would now be unfriended.  Obviously, he can say whatever he wants about the long term fans, we're still going to buy ME3.  In a sense we're pretty much immune to marketing blabber and he can treat us as idiots as he pleases.

Still...  There is no way to read around that line.  That was a real dick thing to say.  I am actually feel bad about the time I've invested in BioWare games right now.

"What I meant was..." in 3... 2... 1...   Never.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 08 août 2011 - 05:00 .

[PoSpoon]

Natural Entry point. Right.
Like how MGS4 is the natural entry point for the series.
Why does Silverman still have a job? And why do they let him talk?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

PoSpoon wrote...

Natural Entry point. Right.
Like how MGS4 is the natural entry point for the series.
Why does Silverman still have a job? And why do they let him talk?

Totally empathize with what you're saying there.  :) 

BUT.  I can see what he's saying about it being a natural entry point.  ME3 is going to be the big-huge-explody-star wars-galactic-combat kind of epic that will draw people into the franchise.  People who might not be interested in "adventures of an intrepid space marine!" or "fallen hero rising from the grave and plunged into mystery" might be interested in "zomg living starships come for deeeeeath!"  And in that sense... ME3 would be a natural starting point to make them say "hey, maybe I should check out the first two games."  I can buy that reasoning...  since I know my ex-girlfriend got into ME2 first and decided to play the first one after her first play through of ME2.

[TMJfin]

I have many saves from both ME & ME2 and I have written down all the decisions for every Shepard I've ever played. So, I'm not a Rain Man but I got that covered Now I just have to remember to keep my fingers on the pulse

[SalsaDMA]

so how is it a marketing rep can get away with calling the companys loyal customers for 'rain man' types?

[Reikenji]

*Enters thread, clears throat*

*runs around like a lunatic screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING!!" *

*bows*


In all seriousness though, all I hear out of Mr Silverman's mouth is marketing nonsense. I have faith in the development team.

*cracks knuckles behind development team*

Complete and utter faith. 

Come on Bioware! Do us proud!  


Rei
 

Modifié par Reikenji, 08 août 2011 - 07:24 .

[crimzontearz]

I still wonder HOW he still has his job. And before anyone says "yeah, this guy has a family....why do you wish for him tolose his job?" consider this......if you SUCK at your job you SHOULD be replaced by someone more competent. He doesn't even have the decency of reading up on the product he is selling

[Wynne]

Molenator wrote...

“We’ve really struck a great balance. Obviously, if
you’ve played the game before you’ll see things that apply to you… And
even if you’ve played the games multiple times before – Mass Effect
came out almost eight years ago – you’re not going to remember all the
details from when you played that game, right? Even I can’t recall
everything that happened to me when that came out in 2007. It’s human
nature. We’re not Rain Man…I think this is definitely the best chance we have in the series to
really break out and go truly blockbuster. It really is a natural entry
point for people: giant alien race launches all-out war, you have to
rally the forces of the universe to counter and see if you can take them
down. That’s pretty clear. You don’t need to be like: ‘Well, what
about when I had this love affair?’ It’s like, who cares? It’s all out
war! New people will get it, but existing fans will see the stakes being
raised. It will still have levels of nuance – I don’t want to spoil
anything – but you’re definitely going to be seeing things that you’ll
be like: ‘Oh, I remember that!’ - BioWare Marketing Head David Silverman

Does this mean our decisions made in Mass Effect 1 and 2 won't have major consequences like promised? If that is true I will be so disappointed with Mass Effect 3! Who cares about balance anyways? It ruins the game for hardcore fans!

How the hell do you get "ME1 and ME2 won't have major consequences" from that post? Seriously. It's like if I said "the sky is blue" and you start screaming that I cheated on you and murdered your cat.

All Silverman is saying, is they're not going to get complete strangers who never heard of Mass Effect before involved in the tangled relationships between Ashley and Jack or Kaidan and Thane because they wouldn't get it. He's saying that the third game is a great place for newcomers to start in order to still get people who might be thinking, "Wow, I've missed the last two games and I don't have the cash/free time, but this game looks really cool..." to think of Mass Effect 3 as awesome even if you don't know the context. Which, to be fair, it IS.

Should the last two games be played? Yes, but people make their own decisions, and marketing doesn't presume to make those choices for buyers. It would be so damned elitist to sniff and say, "Play the first two games or YOU DON'T DESERVE THE THIRD!!!" Let's not be that way. Marketing's job is to break down what is and make it accessible and non-intimidating to every average person who hears about the game. A product doesn't sell if it seems like you have to memorize the Silmarillion before you can appreciate it. DS's job is to be that little devil on the shoulder of a person who's resisted playing the previous two games, or who never heard of them before, whispering "this is going to be a completely awesome game, you saw that... fighting an ancient race of alien beings... there's no reason to be afraid you won't understand or care about the plot, so why not try it?"

And yeah, that's his job. Don't judge the guy who has to break things down for the mainstream. He's doing the best he can to explain a whole codex to complete newbies. It requires some summarization and downplaying. That doesn't mean he's an idiot or that ME is dumbed down, it means that he's dumbing down the explanation for people who need the basics in order to get caught up on the previous two games. That's all it is. Marketing doesn't develop the games, okay? Relax, people. He wasn't talking to hardcore ME fans, he was trying to generate new interest among casual gamers.

And thank goodness. I'd love to see a day where people outside my immediate social circle stop looking at me like I'm talking about my intention to create my own zombie army by feeding random strangers turpentine and grape soda whenever I mention my love of video games.

Also, it is not anyone's place to call for a man to be fired when they haven't worked with him. That's incredibly presumptuous. As if ME2 sold so horribly. As if he hasn't said anything better than what was quoted in the OP: 

He added: “We’re hoping for a big hit. It’s the best game we’ve ever
made at BioWare Edmonton. The stuff we’re doing – making the gameplay
more action-adventre-y, making it on a par with some of the best action
games you see today, whilst on top of that adding in these RPG elements
that maybe people were upset we didn’t focus on as much in Mass Effect
2 – it strikes a balance.”
What RPG fans may be delighted to hear is that when Silverman was
asked whether Mass Effect 3 would have more depth as an RPG than the
last game, he said:
“Absolutely. Hands down. We’ve done a lot of research about what
people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too –
what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin’s Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty
and lots of RPG games too.
“We’ve looked at all these games to see what’s resonating and what’s
not. On the one hand, we don’t want to go too far down the RPG rabbit
hole where Shepard starts rolling dice, but on the other hand we don’t
want to ignore that coolness – where people can customise parts of their
character and making them feel that it’s them in the adventure. We
capitalise on that in spades in ME3."

Modifié par Wynne, 08 août 2011 - 11:55 .

[Nohvarr]

Sometimes I wonder if gamers need someone to hate...

[Wynne]

You said it, Nohvarr.

[Bad King]

wat iz blance?

[Praetor Knight]

Bad King wrote...

wat iz blance?

Maybe the imaginary person we can universally hate? Kinda like Batman!

Only Mr or Ms. Blance stands between hardcore gamers and newcomers!?

[Vyse_Fina]

Oh come on guys, Silverman does what he is paid to do. With a project of this scale, marketing has to appeal to as many people as possible. If they claimed the game was tailored only to the hardcore fans who finished ME1&2 several times, then who besides those fans would buy that game?

Let me translate that marketing talk for the unitiated:
"For those of you who haven't played ME1/2 or only played them once and forgot some things over the years, we included some ingame explanations so you're not lost completely. Now give us your money already"

That's all there is to this. Where is this statement even from? I am quite sure that wasn't meant for any place hardcore ME fans typically get their informations from. This message was supposed to reach people who didn't care all that much for ME yet and meant to tell them that ME3 is the best point to get into the trilogy (like ME2 was back when ME2 was released and ME1 was back when ME1 was release. Anyone noticed a pattern yet?)

[Praetor Knight]

TheWarofArt wrote...

Just words to make people new to series/casual gamers feel like they're not getting half of a game by not playing the first two titles.
You have to understand that most of us here are hardcore fans, hardcore enough to make posts in a forum dedicated to the third game. Silverman is trying to appeal to people not 100% familiar with Mass Effect (like we are).

I think you said it best, TheWarofArt.

[Sashimi_taco]

Why is he trying so hard to alienate the already existing player base? He already said "who cares" about romances and everything else mass effect fans care about. I feel like he's calling us nerds so he can get the halo players to play mass effect.

[Rekkampum]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

You'll get some very exciting email in ME3. They've added the ability for NPCs to include attachments!

Dont forget the lolpyjaks on icanhazavarrenskewer

Emails sound great.

[davidshooter]

Bioware is just trying to ensure that the gamers who pick up ME3 off the shelf in their local gamestore who haven't played the previous games don't say to themselves "this looks really cool, but if I buy it I won't know what's going on with the story" and then put it back. Bioware wants to get the message out to everyone that if you think ME3 looks fun and is worth buying, don't worry if you haven't played the other 2 games, you'll still enjoy it.

Siverman is a bit of an idiot, but this is just marketing 101 - except for not actually knowing how long it's been since the first game came out, and the awesome button thing, and well.......never mind, Silverman's an idiot.

[Kasai666]

Silverman should be fed to the Pyjacks and Varren. Then incinerated, then spaced.

[crimzontearz]

Wynne wrote...

Molenator wrote...

“We’ve really struck a great balance. Obviously, if
you’ve played the game before you’ll see things that apply to you… And
even if you’ve played the games multiple times before – Mass Effect
came out almost eight years ago – you’re not going to remember all the
details from when you played that game, right? Even I can’t recall
everything that happened to me when that came out in 2007. It’s human
nature. We’re not Rain Man…I think this is definitely the best chance we have in the series to
really break out and go truly blockbuster. It really is a natural entry
point for people: giant alien race launches all-out war, you have to
rally the forces of the universe to counter and see if you can take them
down. That’s pretty clear. You don’t need to be like: ‘Well, what
about when I had this love affair?’ It’s like, who cares? It’s all out
war! New people will get it, but existing fans will see the stakes being
raised. It will still have levels of nuance – I don’t want to spoil
anything – but you’re definitely going to be seeing things that you’ll
be like: ‘Oh, I remember that!’ - BioWare Marketing Head David Silverman

Does this mean our decisions made in Mass Effect 1 and 2 won't have major consequences like promised? If that is true I will be so disappointed with Mass Effect 3! Who cares about balance anyways? It ruins the game for hardcore fans!

How the hell do you get "ME1 and ME2 won't have major consequences" from that post? Seriously. It's like if I said "the sky is blue" and you start screaming that I cheated on you and murdered your cat.

All Silverman is saying, is they're not going to get complete strangers who never heard of Mass Effect before involved in the tangled relationships between Ashley and Jack or Kaidan and Thane because they wouldn't get it. He's saying that the third game is a great place for newcomers to start in order to still get people who might be thinking, "Wow, I've missed the last two games and I don't have the cash/free time, but this game looks really cool..." to think of Mass Effect 3 as awesome even if you don't know the context. Which, to be fair, it IS.

Should the last two games be played? Yes, but people make their own decisions, and marketing doesn't presume to make those choices for buyers. It would be so damned elitist to sniff and say, "Play the first two games or YOU DON'T DESERVE THE THIRD!!!" Let's not be that way. Marketing's job is to break down what is and make it accessible and non-intimidating to every average person who hears about the game. A product doesn't sell if it seems like you have to memorize the Silmarillion before you can appreciate it. DS's job is to be that little devil on the shoulder of a person who's resisted playing the previous two games, or who never heard of them before, whispering "this is going to be a completely awesome game, you saw that... fighting an ancient race of alien beings... there's no reason to be afraid you won't understand or care about the plot, so why not try it?"

And yeah, that's his job. Don't judge the guy who has to break things down for the mainstream. He's doing the best he can to explain a whole codex to complete newbies. It requires some summarization and downplaying. That doesn't mean he's an idiot or that ME is dumbed down, it means that he's dumbing down the explanation for people who need the basics in order to get caught up on the previous two games. That's all it is. Marketing doesn't develop the games, okay? Relax, people. He wasn't talking to hardcore ME fans, he was trying to generate new interest among casual gamers.

And thank goodness. I'd love to see a day where people outside my immediate social circle stop looking at me like I'm talking about my intention to create my own zombie army by feeding random strangers turpentine and grape soda whenever I mention my love of video games.

Also, it is not anyone's place to call for a man to be fired when they haven't worked with him. That's incredibly presumptuous. As if ME2 sold so horribly. As if he hasn't said anything better than what was quoted in the OP: 

He added: “We’re hoping for a big hit. It’s the best game we’ve ever
made at BioWare Edmonton. The stuff we’re doing – making the gameplay
more action-adventre-y, making it on a par with some of the best action
games you see today, whilst on top of that adding in these RPG elements
that maybe people were upset we didn’t focus on as much in Mass Effect
2 – it strikes a balance.”
What RPG fans may be delighted to hear is that when Silverman was
asked whether Mass Effect 3 would have more depth as an RPG than the
last game, he said:
“Absolutely. Hands down. We’ve done a lot of research about what
people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too –
what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin’s Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty
and lots of RPG games too.
“We’ve looked at all these games to see what’s resonating and what’s
not. On the one hand, we don’t want to go too far down the RPG rabbit
hole where Shepard starts rolling dice, but on the other hand we don’t
want to ignore that coolness – where people can customise parts of their
character and making them feel that it’s them in the adventure. We
capitalise on that in spades in ME3."

Wynne are you ****ing me?

come on listen to him!

he is the man who came up with "press a button and something awesome happens"

He can't even get straight WHEN mass effect 1 was released

he could not explain, as you put it, the wealth of background and flavor of the codex to the newcomers even if he was trying because, as it sounds, he seems to have not even played ME1 in depth. Notice how he NEVER mentions RPG features or games related to those RPG features as models but he is more than ready to quote some of the most known and mainstream games to compare ME3's action/gameplay to even when the goddamn question was about RPG features themselves.

Also, newsflash....customization is in a ton of games that are NOT rpgs. He is comparing customization to RPG features because  he probably does not know what RPG features are side for dice based stat rolls (which I am assuming was spoon fed to him). Visual Customization was very present (for shepard...and he is referring to the main character obviously) in ME2 and it is NOT the kind of RPG feature people were crying for.....but of course he would not know it.


Your supposition as per how his Marketing would work for newcomers is flawed. I have a few budding gamer friends, two of them are female co-workers of mine who, until I explained to them what Mass Effect actually was completely believed it was "a game like gears of war" and thus to them unappealing even tho one of them is a huge sci fi fan who loved the 80ies/90ies sci fi periods. I am not sure it was because of Silverman's marketing BUT if you were only to listen to Silverman what would you think (I am also assuming you are putting yourself in the shoes of someone who is NEW to Bioware's games in general)?  Just because you want to appeal to new people that does not mean you want to appeal only to new redbull fueled COD/Halo/GoW players who are looking for awesome explosions, plasma swords and chainsaw bayontetts without actually pointing out  how the game would appeal to the RPG crowds.

And while we are there. If you remove the human relationships in Mass Effect...... Your choices, Genocide of races, Love interests, Friendships, Loss, Character progressions of ex villains/criminals, Shepard's own internal struggle with choices like apprehending a villain or saving the lives of a hostage and, like Silverman Said, "screw that....we are in an all out war"....WHAT exacxtly is left? Another Third Person shooter with added casting skills and RPG-like progression (which is kept nicely hidden right now by silverman). Silverman may just brush it off to cater to another slice of the market but a HUGE part of ME 1 and 2 is ACTUALLY playing the role of commander shepard not just fighting off whatever the level designers threw your way with big guns