230 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

errant_knight wrote...
 I can't see  tweaking  the DA2 model to bring back a few elenents from the DA:O one doing the trick. I can't help but wish that if they wanted to make a game that was so different in so many ways, they'd created a new franchise with which to do it, rather than doing what they did to Dragon Age, which for me, gutted it.

With what they did with DA2, that formula would have worked more with JE2 than DA. I liked that they tried to improve the combat from DA:O, but it was too much of a change. Although, I do hope they keep the talent trees or improve them. Same with friend/rivalry system. But this is a nice example of needing to "take a step back."

[Salaya]

craigdolphin wrote...

...


I guess my only response to that is that the vision for DA2 is clearly different from that which resulted in DAO.

When the vision changed, the lead designer for DAO declined the project because he didn't want to make that game, and ultimately left Bioware. When the vision changed, the result was a number of changes that led to huge dissappontment amongst the established fans of DAO.

The team is being open and honest communicating with the fan base on the forums these days which is awesome But I think my concern is they're focussed on the details of how they can implement that same vision from DA2 in a more palatable way. I think that the 'vision' itself is the underlying problem, and trying to treat the symptoms without recognizing the cause is, ultimately, going to lead to continued dissappointment.

No disrespect intended to the devs. I just think that the vision for DA needs to return to the same as it was for DAO. The specific implementation, of course, can and should evolve.

This is, exactly, how I would verbalize my opinion if my english werent as bad as it is xD

Its great to have devs here, talking so openly. But the core problem is not going to disappear if the main idea is mantained ^_^u 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Oh, god.  Post deleted.  Not worth my time.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 09 août 2011 - 01:01 .

[Sylvianus]

What I would like for future interviews, is that we talk no more about DA2 and its development. It always brings us back to the past.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 août 2011 - 01:41 .

[Yrkoon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

You're acting as if every game you've ever made has received the same level  of polarized reception that DA2 has received,     That this is somehow  "nothing new".  Dishonest.

Were you around during NWN? How about KotOR?

No, a polarized reception is nothing new. We've been getting a "polarized reception" on our games since NWN was revealed to be using the new D&D Third Edition rule set and not the familiar 2nd Edition AD&D rules. Or KotOR was revealed to be a more action RPG than anything we ever did. Or Jade Empire was being set in an Asian-inspired world.

Right.    There's a  difference between a "Polarized reception" and "The Most Polarizing  reception  we've had, frankly".

Stop pretending that this  was all just another day  at the office for Bioware, like when you launched NWN, or KOTOR, or Jade Empire  or whatever.   It was NOT.  It  was much more... and still is.     Ask yourself why.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 août 2011 - 02:22 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Yrkoon wrote...
Ask yourself why.

Because you touch yourself at night.

[nitefyre410]

Yrkoon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

You're acting as if every game you've ever made has received the same level  of polarized reception that DA2 has received,     That this is somehow  "nothing new".  Dishonest.

Were you around during NWN? How about KotOR?

No, a polarized reception is nothing new. We've been getting a "polarized reception" on our games since NWN was revealed to be using the new D&D Third Edition rule set and not the familiar 2nd Edition AD&D rules. Or KotOR was revealed to be a more action RPG than anything we ever did. Or Jade Empire was being set in an Asian-inspired world.

Right.    There's a  difference between a "Polorized reception" and "The Most Polarizing  reception  we've had, frankly".

Stop pretending that this  was all just another day  at the office for Bioware, like when you launched NWN, or KOTOR, or Jade Empire  or whatever.   It was NOT.  It  was much more... and still is.     Ask yourself why.

 

No serious  this was just another day at  office these guys... seriously.

[Yrkoon]

furryrage59 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Blastback wrote...
Yeah, you might want to clarify your original point man, it's a bit muddled.

A lot of people on the DAO side of the argument will say word of mouth helped DAO's sales enormously, then when it comes to why DA2 didn't do so well, they'll say "word of mouth isn't that powerrful!"  There is a double standard.  DA2 is not perfect, but the hate campaign didn't help either.

DA:O side here.

Word of mouth helped DA:O and hindered DA:2.

Not sure where you are reading that we have been saying it isn't powerful because it clearly is.

He didn't read any such thing.

He had no compelling argument so he just  made something up....Tried to find  a "double standard" where none exists. 

[Blastback]

Can we avoid attacks? Please?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 09 août 2011 - 02:42 .

[Blastback]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

He didn't read any such thing.

He had no compelling argument so he just  made something up....Tried to find  a "double standard" where none exists. 

You just proved my point.... again. 

What point?  you havn't really made a coherent point in this thread.  I'm trying to understand what your saying, but help me out man.

[nitefyre410]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

 


and that is called "tellin it like it is"

[Yrkoon]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

And the Double Standard is... where exactly?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Blastback wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

He didn't read any such thing.

He had no compelling argument so he just  made something up....Tried to find  a "double standard" where none exists. 

You just proved my point.... again. 

What point?  you havn't really made a coherent point in this thread.  I'm trying to understand what your saying, but help me out man.

I apologize for that post.  I took it down and replaced it with something I actually believe.  I posted in, shall we say, haste.  ^_^

[Yrkoon]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
 Also, I will never understand people comparing DA2 to CoD, it just makes no sense to me,

Perhaps you should ask Mike Laidlaw to try and explain this comparison to you.  Since he was the first to make it.

Ask him to explain the Farmville comparison as well.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Yrkoon wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
 Also, I will never understand people comparing DA2 to CoD, it just makes no sense to me,

Perhaps you should ask Mike Laidlaw to try and explain this comparison to you.  Since he was the first to make it.

Link or it didn't happen.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Yrkoon wrote...

And the Double Standard is... where exactly?

It's obvious.  I shouldn't have to point it out to you.

[Blastback]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

Gotta disagree.  A number of the "boring parts" are geninly fun for a large portion of the RPG audiance. And non RPG players are more likely going to be reached with a game like Mass Effect than Dragon Age.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Blastback wrote...

Gotta disagree.  A number of the "boring parts" are geninly fun for a large portion of the RPG audiance. And non RPG players are more likely going to be reached with a game like Mass Effect than Dragon Age.

Which is exactly why DAO had to go away and DA2 had to exist.  If people wanted to play DAO/NWN/BG2, there would be a dozen games like them on the shelves.  There is not.  It's a shame to see a great story shared with so few... when it could be shared with a lot more.

Gamers will take to fantasy games just fine... if it's a good story.  Look at the success of the Lord of the Rings movies. 

[Imrahil_]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I always say that, at some point, you either believe what we're telling you or believe that we're lying.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me...

...oh, oops.  Sorry about that.  Not an intentional issue, and certainly not “by design” but something that happened and needs to be addressed. Posters should not have to accept that Sentence A is also Sentences B through D.

[Blastback]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Gotta disagree.  A number of the "boring parts" are geninly fun for a large portion of the RPG audiance. And non RPG players are more likely going to be reached with a game like Mass Effect than Dragon Age.

Which is exactly why DAO had to go away and DA2 had to exist.  If people wanted to play DAO/NWN/BG2, there would be a dozen games like them on the shelves.  There is not.  It's a shame to see a great story shared with so few... when it could be shared with a lot more.

Gamers will take to fantasy games just fine... if it's a good story.  Look at the success of the Lord of the Rings movies. 

Honestly, I think you overestimate the importance a lot of non RPG  gamers put on story.  Amoung my friends, it's the RPG fans that talk about a games story.  The shooter and action game fans barely pay attention to that.  They might love Lord of the Rings, but they don't look for story in games.

Just my personal observations

[Davasar]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

Good games get good word of mouth.

Bad games get bad word of mouth.  Ya know, cause they're BAD.

Proof is in the sales and the community outcry, bud.

Live in denial all you want, but it don't change those simple facts.

Modifié par Davasar, 09 août 2011 - 03:06 .

[TheRealJayDee]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

And the only reason there was bad word of mouth in the first place was because people wanted DA:O2, right? And DA:O got good word of mouth because... what?

And yeah, thank God we've finally reached a time in which games are there to have fun...

[nitefyre410]

Davasar wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Ok, ok.  I'm bored enough to ride this dead horse around yet again.  :lol:

The single reason the game is thought of as bad is the word of mouth.  That's it.  That's all.  Otherwise, as a game, it is much better than DAO.  DA2 is DAO with all the boring parts taken out.  If there had been no negative word of mouth, the game would be bigger than DAO.  Once the formula is tweaked a bit, DA3 will be even better.

The DAO supporters pretend that there were world shattering flaw in the game, but there wasn't.  There were problems, but nothing any place near what they describe.  Instead, it's all word of mouth that hurt the game.  That's all.  The flaws were annoying, but not game killing.  That came from the jilted girlfriends.

In the end, it doesn't matter.  Games have changed.  They're all about story and fun.  Games are entertainment now, meaning they have to focus on fun over a period of time, rather than being passtimes to eat up hours like they used to be.  No amount of anger is going to change that.

:P:P

Good games get good word of mouth.

Bad games get bad word of mouth.  Ya know, cause they're BAD.

Proof is in the sales and the community outcry, bud.

Live in denial all you want, but it don't change those simple facts.

 


Then Okami and Clover studies would like to speak with you.... except they got shut down because the Okami did not sell dispite the good word of mouth. 

[gangly369]

I have no idea why people are complaining about the combat of all things. Now there are problems with DA2, no denying that. But combat wise they improved greatly. I'm playing through DA:O again right now, and I can't tell you how bad it is to watch my Dalish elf take absolutely FOREVER to try and set himself up to attack the enemy. It's horrible. Now the whole 'men falling from the sky' thing was bad in DA2, but their fixing it. Proof? Legacy dlc. That and they said they were going to improve upon this in the future so I have no worries.

Now the more pressing issues to me would involve the story, specifically the impact of your choices. And guess what? they said that they're listening and that they will address this.

And why would I doubt these guys. I don't mean to suck up to Bioware whatsoever, but this is the only game of theirs that I've played where I felt mildly disapointed by what I bought. I'm more than willing to give them a second chance and to wait and see what they come up with next. I'm more than willing to sit here and contribute ideas as to how they can improve the next installment, rather then sit here rambling on about how they screwed everything up and that they're 'taking this to calm cause its such a major failure!!!! this doesn't happen all the time bioware!!! blah blah blah' and all that ****.

Note: I also can't stand the people who can't stop talking about how high and mighty they are because they don't play CoD. Who cares? Like at all? This is dragon age, no matter what comparisons are made, so lets just focus on that