143 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

ThePwener wrote...

Here's your evidence.

http://t3.gstatic.co...GBpR1Y3EwVr6Vzi

Still think it's useful Quole? It just stood there taking a barrage of fire. Great tactic.

User error

[Thargorichiban]

essarr71 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Name one naval campaign where the Destiny Ascension contributed significantly to Citadel victory.

Um, my point is, the Alliance sacrified ships in the battle, and is therefore weaker because of it.

But since you brought it up, the Destiny Ascension has been in precisely one battle that I know of... which is a pretty small sample size from which to determine its battle capability. Straw-man argument.

The point he's making is that the Destiny Ascension is/was a low value target to save. It beraly could defend itself. It was, frankly, a waste of a ship. It was a just a glorified transport ship.

Actually he brings up some evidence that might contradict his and the OPs except:

It's assumed that the DE is the most powerful and secure ship in the Citadel (why else would they move the Council to it, especially, if it wasn't capable),  The fact that it's almost destroyed reinforces the fact that the Citadel was relatively undefended - with the bulk of the Citadel's military elsewhere. 

So I ask where is the evidence that it isn't the most powerful ship, outside of saying a complete surprise attack by countless Geth ships and a Reaper put it at risk?  Or one better, name any other vessel that would have been able to handle it.

Regardless, the OPs except sounds more like conjecture or a poetic license than anything else.  The Alliance might be the force IN the citadel, but there isn't anything to say they're the backbone of the Citadel Fleet, regardless of your choices in ME1.

Good points there. It took an entire Geth fleet along with a Reaper to (potentially) destroy the Destiny Ascension. It is a dreadnaught that was designed for long range combat and it was suddenly forced into a close-range fight with practically no screening ships.

It was a testament to the armanents of the Destiny Ascension that it could last that long without being destroyed especially with it being the largest target on the battlefield.

I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of damage it can inflict when properly used in ME3.

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

So, you have no basis to judge how effective it actually is because it never even tried to stand and fight in the first place (which would have been a bad move in that situation).

I rest my case. Even if it was a bad move, it could have done something other then stand and die.

[James2912]

I would just like to say that I have no agenda in posting this thread. I was just as surprised as the rest of you to read that. It also says in the book that there was no way the council could think that Sovereign was a Geth ship and that the Council was covering up the evidence of the Reapers.

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

So, you have no basis to judge how effective it actually is because it never even tried to stand and fight in the first place (which would have been a bad move in that situation).

I rest my case. Even if it was a bad move, it could have done something other then stand and die.

What case?  You don't have one.  And I just explained to you what it was doing: trying to get the heads of state out of the combat zone. 

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

What case?  You don't have one.  And I just explained to you what it was doing: trying to get the heads of state out of the combat zone. 

Sure it was, sure it was.

Modifié par ThePwener, 08 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[Praetor Knight]

ThePwener wrote...

Sure it was, sure it was.

Sorry for getting silly, but I can picture this guy saying that line

[essarr71]

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

What case?  You don't have one.  And I just explained to you what it was doing: trying to get the heads of state out of the combat zone. 

Sure it was, sure it was.

Considering your case, I'm not shocked that this is the best response you have to the evidence.  And before you dismiss me:

I'm rubber, you're glue.

[ThePwener]

Who's alcoholic father is that?

[ThePwener]

essarr71 wrote...

Considering your case, I'm not shocked that this is the best response you have to the evidence.  And before you dismiss me:

I'm rubber, you're glue.

Great, I have Zulu's reputation. Just what I needed.

[Agamo45]

The DA reminds me of the Japanese battleship Yamato from WW2. If you don't know the history behind her, she was the biggest, most heavily armored, most heavily armed battleship ever to have existed. She must have looked damned impressive, but she ended up doing almost nothing the whole war and In the end was easily sunk by American aircraft. Dreadnoughts are basically all show with little real use. The Alliance has carriers which are apparently a new thing, they will probably supersede the big dreadnoughts.

[Praetor Knight]

ThePwener wrote...

Who's alcoholic father is that?

Wikipedia has a surprisingly detailed article on Kramer 

[Nashiktal]

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

This is compounded further by how small humanities military is, its less than three percent of Humanities total population, said population is mostly on Earth... While the Turians have colonies spread across the galaxy at least as big as Palaven. 

It just makes no sense, Drew is just trying to make humanity more special than it makes sense for them to be.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 08 août 2011 - 05:13 .

[ThePwener]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Who's alcoholic father is that?

Wikipedia has a surprisingly detailed article on Kramer 

What has been seen cannot be unseen. He looks like the run of the mill pedophile to me.

[armass]

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

AMEN.

[Praetor Knight]

armass wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

AMEN.

Hmm... what about the American MIC's for WWI & WWII?


I'd say that militarism is not important to the number of ships that can be fielded in fleets.

[Nashiktal]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

armass wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

AMEN.

Hmm... what about the American MIC's for WWI & WWII?


I'd say that militarism is not important to the number of ships that can be fielded in fleets.

Not comparable. Humanity has LESS than 3 percent of their population in the military, and most of that population is on Earth, most colonies are the population size of Australia. They have also only been an "intergalactic" power for about thirty years, they are barely getting their feet wet.

The Turians, where their ENTIRE population undergoes military service for a few years of their life, who has been an intergalactic empire for over 100 years, with colonies who's populations are comparable to their homeworld...

Absolutely friggin ridiculous.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 08 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[ThePwener]

Nashiktal wrote...

Absolutely friggin ridiculous.

It's a videogame, let it go.

[Praetor Knight]

Nashiktal wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

armass wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

AMEN.

Hmm... what about the American MIC's for WWI & WWII?


I'd say that militarism is not important to the number of ships that can be fielded in fleets.

Not comparable. Humanity has LESS than 3 percent of their population in the military, and most of that population is on Earth, most colonies are the size population size of Australia.

The Turians, where their ENTIRE population undergoes military service for a few years of their life, who has been an intergalactic empire for over 100 years, with colonies who's populations are comparable to their homeworld...

Absolutely friggin ridiculous.

Right, so Turians are well trained, and generally are said to be disinterested in economics. So what I wonder is how is their fleet setup? And how many Turians are there?

The problem I see is that it is easy to convert existing infrastructure for military purposes, so the nature of the culture does not help us know how many ships either side could build and then sustain without knowing their industrial capacity.

And dreadnoughts need large crew sizes. The Destiny Ascension needed ~10,000 crew and the Turians have like ~39 of them, which comes out to needing at least 390,000 turians serving on those ships alone, and with only 5 years of service for enlisted Turians, the logistics seem staggering and they would need a huge population too.

And if Earth is sustaining a population of ~11,490,225,106, that would mean at least ~344,706,753 human personnel are in the Alliance, which seems sufficient for manning many smaller class ships. The question is how large are the crews for the different ships, and how many ships are there?

[Nashiktal]

ThePwener wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Absolutely friggin ridiculous.

It's a videogame, let it go.

Its my entertainment, so no.

There is also the suspension of belief situation, but that argument has been tossed around enough that you should know it and i'm tired of typing it out.

While we are at it, lets make shep fly, have humanity somehow manage to construct a new fleet during ME3, and The krogans should have conquered a few systems by now.

[ThePwener]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

*snip*

Dude, only the DA needed 10,000 crewmembers. Every dreadnaught needing 10,000 men is insane! Humans have them too, and there is no way we could fill them.

[ThePwener]

Nashiktal wrote...

While we are at it, lets make shep fly, have humanity somehow manage to construct a new fleet during ME3, and The krogans should have conquered a few systems by now.

Isn't that the plot of ME3 right there?

[Nashiktal]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

armass wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Not to mention its absolutely, friggin ridiculous that humanity that has barely been around for three decades has more ships than the Turians, who are a militaristic race that has existed as an intergalactic power for more than A THOUSAND YEARS.

AMEN.

Hmm... what about the American MIC's for WWI & WWII?


I'd say that militarism is not important to the number of ships that can be fielded in fleets.

Not comparable. Humanity has LESS than 3 percent of their population in the military, and most of that population is on Earth, most colonies are the size population size of Australia.

The Turians, where their ENTIRE population undergoes military service for a few years of their life, who has been an intergalactic empire for over 100 years, with colonies who's populations are comparable to their homeworld...

Absolutely friggin ridiculous.

Right, so Turians are well trained, and generally are said to be disinterested in economics. So what I wonder is how is their fleet setup? And how many Turians are there?

The problem I see is that it is easy to convert existing infrastructure for military purposes, so the nature of the culture does not help us know how many ships either side could build and then sustain without knowing their industrial capacity.

And dreadnoughts need large crew sizes. The Destiny Ascension needed ~10,000 crew and the Turians have like ~39 of them, which comes out to needing at least 390,000 turians serving on those ships alone, and with only 5 years of service for enlisted Turians, the logistics seem staggering and they would need a huge population too.

And if Earth is sustaining a population of ~11,490,225,106, that would mean at least ~344,706,753 human personnel are in the Alliance, which seems sufficient for manning many smaller class ships. The question is how large are the crews for the different ships, and how many ships are there?

When your entire population has military training, and you have an entire galactic empire with colonies that have similar population to your homeworld... I don't think you would worry about crew sizes mate.

In any case it doesn't shake how silly it is that the Turians entire military is busted after one attack on the citadel, especially when its mostly c-sec forces guarding the thing. You don't maintain an intergalacic empire with only a few hundred ships.

[Keatons]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Now we just need better weapons and defenses on those ships.

Meh, we already have the most advanced ship with the SR-2. A mere fleet of those would work miracles in-universe.

Of course, when the Reapers arrive it's a whole 'nother story.

Exactly.

I was thinking about how the SR2's upgrades are not standard issue for the Alliance's ships from what we know so far; so we need to outfit the ships with at least Thanix Cannons, the cyclonic barriers and the Silaris Armor.

I'd also like to see the Javelin system, and a Cruise Missile equivalent to be used in ME3.

A bit off topic, but the Thanix cannon is a Turian weapon, and I doubt that Turians other than Garrus would be willing to share it with humans other than Shepard, Cyclonic barriers have some signicant risks attached to them if I recall correctly, and armoring anything larger than a frigate or fighter in Silaris Armor is, I believe according to the codex, 'prohibitively expensive'. Not to mention that the SR2 is a Cerberus, not Alliance vessel so the odds that they're sharing design details is slim to none. Not saying it wouldn't be awesome, just that it's not feasible for various reasons.

[ThePwener]

Keatons wrote...

A bit off topic, but the Thanix cannon is a Turian weapon, and I doubt that Turians other than Garrus would be willing to share it with humans other than Shepard, Cyclonic barriers have some signicant risks attached to them if I recall correctly, and armoring anything larger than a frigate or fighter in Silaris Armor is, I believe according to the codex, 'prohibitively expensive'. Not to mention that the SR2 is a Cerberus, not Alliance vessel so the odds that they're sharing design details is slim to none. Not saying it wouldn't be awesome, just that it's not feasible for various reasons.

Yeah well all life is running the risk of being exterminated so I don't care who I have to kill or stomp to get what I want to stop the Reapers.