143 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Here's a video:

That's the Paragon route in which the Citadel fleet wasn't left to dangle while the Alliance dealt with Sovereign.

There is no difference (unless you think the Geth ships - which you failed to kill - destroy hundreds of turian cruisers)

[Someone With Mass]

lovgreno wrote...

Canon-Shmanon. Just create the story you prefer and stop pretending that your opinion are the superiour. I'm sure most of us have enough self esteem to admit that there are more than one way to see things.

Yeah. Claiming that the canon is the only way to go is indeed pretty silly.

[RocketManSR2]

marshalleck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

The Collector Base will put everyone in line.

What Collector base? All I can see is a scrapheap.

The one Cerberus got tech from despite your rash and impulsive decision.

That did bother me. From what I've seen of these games, eezo core explosions are tremendous. There shouldn't have been anything left larger than a turian's right nut.

[Someone With Mass]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

That did bother me. From what I've seen of these games, eezo core explosions are tremendous. There shouldn't have been anything left larger than a turian's right nut.

Hear that, Sovereign? You're doing it wrong!

[Reptillius]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

There is no difference (unless you think the Geth ships - which you failed to kill - destroy hundreds of turian cruisers)

Hundreds? No, but another 20 or more cruisers would do the job. Cruisers don't build themselves and they are needed to pair up with dreadnoughts.

It'd be easier to determine how severe the loss was if we knew how big the turian fleet is, but we don't.

Honestly... it doesn't really matter...  The only thing either way that got damaged was the Citadel Fleet. Now because they were the primary protectors that means most of the ships were Turian... But the DA isn't so that's no loss to their fleet either way.  So they lose some Cruisers. That would still mean they have basically more of just about everything than anybody else has.  and a couple news reports potentially reaffirm that in ME2.

you really think that jsut because human ships take up primary residence around the citadel makes us the best? Realistically it doesn't. It just makes us stupid enough to get our butt's kicked on the behalf of everybody the next time.  The Turians and Krogan like that kind of abuse... Humanity probably shouldn't...

Afterall. Humanity only managed to stand up to the Turians in the First Contact war because we used tactics that the Turians weren't really prepared to fight.  It's like the American Independance War all over again.

[Wulfram]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hundreds? No, but another 20 or more cruisers would do the job. Cruisers don't build themselves and they are needed to pair up with dreadnoughts.

It'd be easier to determine how severe the loss was if we knew how big the turian fleet is, but we don't.

We know from the codex that the Turians have got 37 dreadnoughts in 2183, and are up to 39 in 2185.  How many cruisers that would imply is difficult to guess, but we can surely assume that the cruisers outnumber the dreadnoughts by a considerable degree.

[Bad King]

ThePwener wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Name one naval campaign where the Destiny Ascension contributed significantly to Citadel victory.

Um, my point is, the Alliance sacrified ships in the battle, and is therefore weaker because of it.

But since you brought it up, the Destiny Ascension has been in precisely one battle that I know of... which is a pretty small sample size from which to determine its battle capability. Straw-man argument.

The point he's making is that the Destiny Ascension is/was a low value target to save. It beraly could defend itself. It was, frankly, a waste of a ship. It was a just a glorified transport ship.

I doubt it's simply a glorified transport ship with a main gun like that. When the geth got in close, it was rendered useless just like all dreadnoughts are (dreadnoughts are only effective at long range). We can't judge its combat effectiveness from one battle where it couldn't even fire its main gun.

[Elvis_Mazur]

Just pretend that phrase never happened and don't think about it, you will forget it in the future

Also, I highly doubt all the Council races send most of their forces to defend the Citadel and leave some of their own worlds unprotected. There is no way they lost the majority of their fleets.

[Darkelefantos1]

Bad King wrote...

I doubt it's simply a glorified transport ship with a main gun like that. When the geth got in close, it was rendered useless just like all dreadnoughts are (dreadnoughts are only effective at long range). We can't judge its combat effectiveness from one battle where it couldn't even fire its main gun.

I would have lol'ed at a large green lazor beam eradicating the geth fleet.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Now we just need better weapons and defenses on those ships.

Meh, we already have the most advanced ship with the SR-2. A mere fleet of those would work miracles in-universe.

Of course, when the Reapers arrive it's a whole 'nother story.

If you think Normny mk2 could one-shot reapers, you are mistaken.
It couldn't bring down the shields of a derelict reaper. The thanix gives the Normany the punch of a CRUISER.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ThePwener wrote...
The point he's making is that the Destiny Ascension is/was a low value target to save. It beraly could defend itself. It was, frankly, a waste of a ship. It was a just a glorified transport ship.

The DA wasn't design for knife-fights, but rather long-range bombardment. Which is why it faired so poorly at the Citadel.

[Sebby]

The DA was a white elephant. The fact that it was in the (previously) safest part of the galaxy that whole time is more proof of it.

[Someone With Mass]

The Normandy SR-2 was also incredibly expensive. If the SSV Normandy cost about as much as a heavy cruiser, I'd imagine you can build a dreadnought and then some for the money they spent on building the SR-2.

Not to mention that the stealth drive is completely useless against the Reapers.

[Dragoonlordz]

"as the galaxy's single most dominant power."

We all know the Reapers have the strongest fleet, they are now in the galaxy therefore they win this argument until the end of ME3 in which I assume one outcome is stopping them.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 août 2011 - 11:27 .

[Basuru]

I just want to say that it wouldn't take a military genius to see that you don't have you highest valued target (the Council) and you most valuable weapon be one in the same (i.e. you don't hand the big powerful gun to the president). Instead, you would want your fastest and/or best armored ship to be the blockade runner as you evac. the council.

Also, it is said in both games that the Turians are primarily responsible for the protection of the Citadel. Also it is said that their fleet took a huge hit in that battle and they were working on quickly producing replacements for those ships that were lost. I take that to mean that throughout ME2 the Alliance is the strongest, but I think that by the time ME3's storyline begins the Turians will have recouped most of their losses.

Also to those bickering about the cost of the Normandy mk1 and the creation of a fleet of mk2s. The reason the mk1 cost so much was because it was a prototype and the large price tag was including all the research. That means that to build more would be far cheaper. Also the mk2s are far larger and more powerful and there is no evidence to indicate that it was extremely costly to build one. Again research here to upgrade the mk1 into the mk2 carries a large price tag, but building a fleet of mk2s wouldn't carry quite the same cost (in fact they would probably be about the same cost as a normal carrier), especially if the stealth component is left out, since it is not needed and requires special ship venting and infrastructure that adds no other advantage. Doing that still leaves a ship that has superior firepower, armor, shields, speed, and maneuverability as compared to most Alliance ships, especially those of comparable size. Also that would be ignoring the fact that the turians and humans can share tech (and thats what the Normandy is after all).

The last thing I want to address is I forget who is was but someone said that the humans have inferior tech and weapons. The person cited that the humans only survived the First Contact War using "tactics the Turians had not trained for" as evidence of this, but if you read and compare weapons in both the games and the outside material you see that though the humans did start behind in tech they quickly progressed and are now on par, and in some cases ahead of the other races, with the exception being amps. (As an additional note, the Normandy was not just a prototype for the Alliance, it was also the best weapons/armor/shields tech that the Turians had as well)

[Arppis]

marshalleck wrote...

armass wrote...

Well my opinion is it's BS. There's no way alliance had the most powerful fleet, even if citadel forces were decimated. I think they just somehow shoehorned this into the book tough logically and statistically it makes absolutely no sense.

Your opinion is wrong. Books > you

Games > Books. They will always be more canon.

But you know, either way, most of the citadel fleet was at the citadel and they got beaten up pretty badly, doesn't matter which choice you took, was it to save DA or not, humans propably have the biggest fleet now.

[SkittlesKat96]

 I highly doubt that...the Turians have so many Dreadnoughts and cruisers in their fleet, ones way more powerful than the Alliance's, and even though a lot of their ships are apart of the citadel fleet they still have lots left over.

I'm guessing that Ascension is based on what would happen if Shepard didn't save the Council...in that case I suppose it would be plausible.

EDIT: Or maybe it is true? I'm still not so sure though.

If someone chose to save the council a few human ships were destroyed, and Sovereign seemed to only have really destroyed a few Turian ships...isn't the Turian fleet much more massive than the Alliance's?

EDIT 2: I suppose it makes sense though that the books might have retconned it and said/implied that more Turian ships were lost than were seen in the game (we never really got to hear or see the exact statistics of the battle I'm pretty sure.)

Maybe thats it?

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 17 août 2011 - 07:59 .