50 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

They don't change anything! Don't you get it? The slides ARE NOT CANON, they are rumors! The slide detailing Cullen was obviously jsut a rumor, which was proven to be false in DA2. The slide about Harrowmont closing off Orzammar, on the other hand, is proven true. And if Anders weren't recruited and Justice was killed, did it ever occur to you that Justice may have returned to the Fade, and or not "died" in the traditional snese, and then met Anders (who is a mage, and thus attract spirits)?

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 20 septembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They don't chagne anything! Don't you get it? The slides ARE NOT CANON, they are rumors! I don't get how it can be so hard to understand. The slide detailing Cullen was obviously jsut a rumor, which was proven to be false in DA2. The slide about Harrowmont closing off Orzammar, on the other hand, is proven true. And if Anders weren't recruited and Justice was killed, did it ever occur to you that Justice may have returned to the Fade, and or not "died" in the traditional snese, and then met Anders (who is a mage, and thus attract spirits)?

The developers did change things, even when it didn't deal with the Epilogue slides specifically. Oghren came back from the dead if The Warden killed him, Leliana came back from the dead if The Warden killed her, Anders and Justice always meet even if the two never did in the narrative (and both characters can come back from the dead), so the developers clearly changed things that were established.

Why would Justice seek out Anders specifically if the two never met, and Justice was killed at the Dragonbone Wastes? Why would Ser Pounce-A-Lot have been given away if Anders faked his death while the Hero of Ferelden was still Warden-Commander? There are inconsistencies.

[EmperorSahlertz]

If Oghren dies in DA:A he is dead. And to my recollection, you can't kill him in DA:O (despite what the urban legend says). Lelianna comming back is not a retcon, since it doesn't disregard previous actions taken in the game. And who says Justice seeks Anders out to begin with? They may just as well have had a chance encoutner in the Fade.
And Ser-Pounce-Alot would be given away if Anders died, becuase... Anders died... and the Commander couldn't be arsed with the cat.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If Oghren dies in DA:A he is dead. And to my recollection, you can't kill him in DA:O (despite what the urban legend says).

The developers make a joke about Oghren being brought back into Awakening if he was killed in Origins.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lelianna comming back is not a retcon, since it doesn't disregard previous actions taken in the game.

It does disregard the fact that Leliana was dead and now she's alive, so it was a recton.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And who says Justice seeks Anders out to begin with? They may just as well have had a chance encoutner in the Fade.

So Anders trusted a random spirit in the Fade?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And Ser-Pounce-Alot would be given away if Anders died, becuase... Anders died... and the Commander couldn't be arsed with the cat.

Which is why Anders says he gave away Ser Pounce-A-Lot because the Wardens demanded it?

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If Oghren dies in DA:A he is dead. And to my recollection, you can't kill him in DA:O (despite what the urban legend says).

The developers make a joke about Oghren being brought back into Awakening if he was killed in Origins.

GASP! How dare they! How dare they make a joke! All they say MUST be true!

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lelianna comming back is not a retcon, since it doesn't disregard previous actions taken in the game.

It does disregard the fact that Leliana was dead and now she's alive, so it was a recton.

No it doesn't. It acknowledges her death, and expands upon it. She came back for a reason.

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And who says Justice seeks Anders out to begin with? They may just as well have had a chance encoutner in the Fade.

So Anders trusted a random spirit in the Fade?

He seems to have an infatuation with spirits. Especially since he is a spirit healer. So, yes.

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And Ser-Pounce-Alot would be given away if Anders died, becuase... Anders died... and the Commander couldn't be arsed with the cat.

Which is why Anders says he gave away Ser Pounce-A-Lot because the Wardens demanded it?

Fine. That is the one timeline discrepancy. I suppsoe a line about a cat, invalidates the entire game now?

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The developers make a joke about Oghren being brought back into Awakening if he was killed in Origins.

GASP! How dare they! How dare tehy make a joke! All they say MUST be true!

They made a joke about why he's alive in Amaranthine if he was killed during the Fifth Blight...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It does disregard the fact that Leliana was dead and now she's alive, so it was a recton.

No it doesn't. It acknowledges her death, and expands upon it. She came back for a reason.

It ignores the player's decision to kill Leliana by forcing her back in the narrative.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

So Anders trusted a random spirit in the Fade?

He seems to have an infatuation with spirits. Especially since he is a spirit healer. So, yes.

That doesn't make any sense. How would Anders even know that Justice was actually a Spirit then and not a demon in disguise?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Which is why Anders says he gave away Ser Pounce-A-Lot because the Wardens demanded it?

Fine. That is the one timeline discrepancy. I suppsoe a line about a cat, invalidates the entire game now?

One discrepency among many.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Oghren can't die in Origins, so thats a done deal.

No it doesn't ignore the players decission to kill Lelianna. It expands upon it. You still killed her. The game recognizes your actions. It however also expands upon it, and shows that she came back. It does NOT ignore it.

Uhm.. Because he is a mage, and should know the difference? If he doesn't, then he would trust Justice anyway, since he would think he was a spirit. If he does know the difference, he will recognize Justice as a spirit and trust him.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oghren can't die in Origins, so thats a done deal.

Then why did the developers make a joke about why Oghren shows up in Awakening if he died in Origins?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No it doesn't ignore the players decission to kill Lelianna. It expands upon it. You still killed her. The game recognizes your actions. It however also expands upon it, and shows that she came back. It does NOT ignore it.

It denigrates the decision by bringing the character back to life.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. Because he is a mage, and should know the difference? If he doesn't, then he would trust Justice anyway, since he would think he was a spirit. If he does know the difference, he will recognize Justice as a spirit and trust him.

It's already stated in the lore that demons can pose as spirits, so Spirit Healers always have to be careful if they use spirits to enchance their healing abilities.

[SerraAdvocate]

I really don't see how bringing Leliana back from the dead denigrates player decisions. You still made the decision you did, for good or for ill. That's unchanged. Her "resurrection" only serves to highlight her importance, it doesn't reduce your own agency. Especially if Leliana wasn't just metaphorically brought back to life but literally brought back to life, which I suspect is the case.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Oghren can't die in Origins, so thats a done deal.

Then why did the developers make a joke about why Oghren shows up in Awakening if he died in Origins?

To be funny?

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No it doesn't ignore the players decission to kill Lelianna. It expands upon it. You still killed her. The game recognizes your actions. It however also expands upon it, and shows that she came back. It does NOT ignore it.

It denigrates the decision by bringing the character back to life.

No. It emphasizes the importance of Lelianna. Obviously there is much more to the character than any of us initially assumed. Perhaps killing her could be the most important decission the Warden ever amde. We won't know until the story advances.

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Uhm.. Because he is a mage, and should know the difference? If he doesn't, then he would trust Justice anyway, since he would think he was a spirit. If he does know the difference, he will recognize Justice as a spirit and trust him.

It's already stated in the lore that demons can pose as spirits, so Spirit Healers always have to be careful if they use spirits to enchance their healing abilities.

Then obviously Anders recognized Justice as a spirit and began to trust him.

[LobselVith8]

Helm505 wrote...

I really don't see how bringing Leliana back from the dead denigrates player decisions. You still made the decision you did, for good or for ill. That's unchanged. Her "resurrection" only serves to highlight her importance, it doesn't reduce your own agency. Especially if Leliana wasn't just metaphorically brought back to life but literally brought back to life, which I suspect is the case.

Because she was dead, and now she's alive. Her ressurection highlights the recton of bringing her back from the dead.

[Giggles_Manically]

You only though she was dead.

If they kept every character in a comic book "dead" who we thought was "dead"... well there would be no more comic book characters by this point really.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Then why did the developers make a joke about why Oghren shows up in Awakening if he died in Origins?

To be funny?

When players stated that when Oghren gets to -100, such as with the pranks, that he would get angry with The Warden and say he's leaving, but that The Warden could mock him and fight with him, where they would get to fight him, and have the option of killing him like they do with the others. If this was inaccurate information, wouldn't the developers have addressed this rather than giving a response that seems to confirm it's accurate?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It denigrates the decision by bringing the character back to life.

No. It emphasizes the importance of Lelianna. Obviously there is much more to the character than any of us initially assumed. Perhaps killing her could be the most important decission the Warden ever amde. We won't know until the story advances.

There's no indication that Leliana is important. All she does is blame everything on the mages (in "Faith") and say that The Warden and Hawke disappeared.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's already stated in the lore that demons can pose as spirits, so Spirit Healers always have to be careful if they use spirits to enchance their healing abilities.

Then obviously Anders recognized Justice as a spirit and began to trust him.

Why would Anders trust a spirit in the Fade?

[SerraAdvocate]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Helm505 wrote...

I really don't see how bringing Leliana back from the dead denigrates player decisions. You still made the decision you did, for good or for ill. That's unchanged. Her "resurrection" only serves to highlight her importance, it doesn't reduce your own agency. Especially if Leliana wasn't just metaphorically brought back to life but literally brought back to life, which I suspect is the case.

Because she was dead, and now she's alive. Her ressurection highlights the recton of bringing her back from the dead.

Unless it wasn't a retcon and was always intended. Leliana talks to the maker. Moreover, this is a fantasy genre game. She might actually talk to the maker. Her (possible) death and resurrection serves to emphasize the possibility that she's not crazy, but should be taken seriously as a possible conduit to some of the uber-powerful figures of the Dragon Age universe.

Modifié par Helm505, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[LobselVith8]

Helm505 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Because she was dead, and now she's alive. Her ressurection highlights the recton of bringing her back from the dead.

Unless it wasn't a retcon and was always intended. Leliana talks to the maker. Moreover, this is a fantasy genre game. She might actually talk to the maker. Her (possible) death and resurrection serves to emphasize the possibility that she's not crazy, but actually should be taken seriously as a possible conduit to some of the uber-powerful figures of the Dragon Age universe.

The inaccuracies between DAA Anders and Anders' being in Kirkwall and how he got there gives me the impression that they didn't really plan ahead.

[SerraAdvocate]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Helm505 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Because she was dead, and now she's alive. Her ressurection highlights the recton of bringing her back from the dead.

Unless it wasn't a retcon and was always intended. Leliana talks to the maker. Moreover, this is a fantasy genre game. She might actually talk to the maker. Her (possible) death and resurrection serves to emphasize the possibility that she's not crazy, but actually should be taken seriously as a possible conduit to some of the uber-powerful figures of the Dragon Age universe.

The inaccuracies between DAA Anders and Anders' being in Kirkwall and how he got there gives me the impression that they didn't really plan ahead.

A lack of planning ahead when dealing with a character whose significance was determined in an expansion pack and later expanded does not suggest that there was a similar lack of planning ahead for a character whose possible importance as a conduit to the maker was defined in the first conversdation the Warden has with her.

[LobselVith8]

Helm505 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The inaccuracies between DAA Anders and Anders' being in Kirkwall and how he got there gives me the impression that they didn't really plan ahead.

A lack of planning ahead when dealing with a character whose significance was determined in an expansion pack and later expanded does not suggest that there was a similar lack of planning ahead for a character whose possible importance as a conduit to the maker was defined in the first conversdation the Warden has with her.

The fact that the Guardian accuses Leliana of lying about her vision leads me to believe otherwise.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Helm505 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The inaccuracies between DAA Anders and Anders' being in Kirkwall and how he got there gives me the impression that they didn't really plan ahead.

A lack of planning ahead when dealing with a character whose significance was determined in an expansion pack and later expanded does not suggest that there was a similar lack of planning ahead for a character whose possible importance as a conduit to the maker was defined in the first conversdation the Warden has with her.

The fact that the Guardian accuses Leliana of lying about her vision leads me to believe otherwise.

She probably is Andraste reborn though. She has a strong belief in the Maker, she has a beautiful singing voice, she is brought back to life in a place that is described as being "watched by the Maker", etc.

Grasping at straws I am.

[Urzon]

Yet another thread that dissolves into a "OMG HOW DARE THEY BRING LELIANA BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!"

Woe be upon the OP.

[Spartansfan8888]

Since whoever Corypheus presumably possessed and escaped through is a warden, I think it would be cool if they did a plot involving corruption of the wardens from within. Bonus points if it is centered around the mysterious and impregnable Weisshaupt fortress. I've kinda wanted a plot like that since Awakening introduced us to how the warden command structure is largely regional and many wardens have never even been to Weisshaupt. Imagine what happens when you find out who you're REALLY working for....

[megski]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She probably is Andraste reborn though. She has a strong belief in the Maker, she has a beautiful singing voice, she is brought back to life in a place that is described as being "watched by the Maker", etc.

Grasping at straws I am.

I always kind of thought that that too, even though she has a past as the cunning deceitful bard, I never thought she was lying about the Maker speaking to her and I don't think she just hears voices either.  I didn't realize that Andraste was the only person the Maker spoke to, but after I read that somewhere I was like, hmmm.  

[jamesp81]

megski wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She probably is Andraste reborn though. She has a strong belief in the Maker, she has a beautiful singing voice, she is brought back to life in a place that is described as being "watched by the Maker", etc.

Grasping at straws I am.

I always kind of thought that that too, even though she has a past as the cunning deceitful bard, I never thought she was lying about the Maker speaking to her and I don't think she just hears voices either.  I didn't realize that Andraste was the only person the Maker spoke to, but after I read that somewhere I was like, hmmm.  

This is actually a pretty good theory.  I didn't take the Guardian's comments as proof she was lying about the whole thing, either.  The Guardian challenged everyone on whatever they said.

[SerraAdvocate]

jamesp81 wrote...

megski wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She probably is Andraste reborn though. She has a strong belief in the Maker, she has a beautiful singing voice, she is brought back to life in a place that is described as being "watched by the Maker", etc.

Grasping at straws I am.

I always kind of thought that that too, even though she has a past as the cunning deceitful bard, I never thought she was lying about the Maker speaking to her and I don't think she just hears voices either.  I didn't realize that Andraste was the only person the Maker spoke to, but after I read that somewhere I was like, hmmm.  

This is actually a pretty good theory.  I didn't take the Guardian's comments as proof she was lying about the whole thing, either.  The Guardian challenged everyone on whatever they said.

The Guardian also had limits to his knowledge, and was a servant of Andraste, not the Maker. His assertion that Leliana was lying would have been automatic, given that he had personally known Andraste, but he probably had no way to judge whether or not the Maker was actually talking to her.

[Foolsfolly]

XxDeonxX wrote...

After discovering that Revered Mother Dorothea ended up becoming the divine I began to think perhaps Bioware will place people we know from previous games in positions of power around thedas and with Corypheus presented to us in the latest DLC Corypehus escapes by posessing either Janeka or Larius. A great way for our choice to be echoed throughout thedas giving it proper weight and imo a cool little story arc that could happen is Janeka or Larius through being possessed by Corypheus uses their immense power in magic and maleficarum knowledge to take over tevinter and become its new Archon. Then with a global war seemingly happening in DA3, Have Tevinters involvement be invading and attacking the Anderfels and the wardens for revenge in his imprisonment and seeing them as a threat to his existance.

Anyone else think this might happen / is a cool idea?

I think that's highly unlikely. Just beat Legacy for the first time today and there were notes lying around. They'd given Cory a name (something omnious) and talked about how it went after the Stone itself. Cory may make a B-line towards Kal-Shirok which, these boards tell me the Stone is located, and go after the Stone.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'd thought the notes were a reference to one of the other bosses in the Dungeon.