477 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Also to clarify, I was playing devils advocate....Perspective is very different for different people is my point.  How I know or you know rpg isn't going to be the same as the next person.

It still made my brain hurt. 

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

"RPGs" are already dead.

[Nohvarr]

Well, I'll say the following and leave it alone, because I'm getting tired of seeing the same argument getting started again and again. Let's take a look at what's coming out between now and 2013.

Deus Ex Human Revolution: A game where you can purchase upgrades to your conversation abilities and approch situations in multiple ways just for starters

Skyrim: a game where tha manner in which you play determines how your skills advance.

The Old Republic: we'd be here all day if I tried to list it's RPG creds.

X-men Destiny: moral choices, diablo loot drops, and significant character customization

Diablo 3: nuff said

Mass Effect 3: choice, character/armor/weapon customization etc.

Kingdoms of Amalur: choice, gear, character builds etc

Bioshock infinite: nuff said

X-Com: Choice and gear

Borderlands 2

Dishonored: Builds, Gear and choice

And that is discounting all the games that have significant RPG elements like customization, choice etc. Games like Rage, Batman AC, Prey 2 etc.

In short, are RPG's dying? No

Are RPG's evoloving? Yes

Are they moving in a direction everyone will like? Not always

The good news is that amongst the flood of RPG's coming out you're likely to find something you will enjoy. If not, wait, someone is bound to get around to it eventually.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 09 août 2011 - 01:07 .

[marshalleck]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I swear, its always the RPG fanboys who are complaining things aren't RPG enough.

They're so use to RPG games that pander to the RPG fan -- while there is nothing wrong with that...anything outside the "norm" is hated on for being different.

It gets a little old to hear the same complaints. Especially when ME3 isn't out yet and everyone knows they're going to buy the game and like it.

Why shouldn't an RPG cater to RPG fans?

Should a shooter not cater to shooter fans? A flight sim for flight sim fans? So on and so on?

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 01:05 .

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, I'll say the following and leave it alone, because I'm getting tired of seeing the same argument getting started again and again. Let's take a look at what's coming out between now and 2013.

Deus Ex Human Revolution: A game where you can purchase upgrades to your conversation abilities and approch situations in multiple ways just for starters

Skyrim: a game where tha manner in which you play determines how your skills advance.

The Old Republic: we'd be here all day if I tried to list it's RPG creds.

X-men Destiny: moral choices, diablo loot drops, and significant character customization

Diablo 3: nuff said

Mass Effect 3: choice, character/armor/weapon customization etc.

Kingdoms of Amalur: choice, gear, character builds etc

Bioshock infinite: nuff said

X-Com: Choice and gear

Dishonored: Builds, Gear and choice

And that is discounting all the games that have significant RPG elements like customization, choice etc. Games like Rage, Batman AC, Prey 2 etc.

In short, are RPG's dying? No

Are RPG's evoloving? Yes

Are they moving in a direction everyone will like? Not always

The good news is that amongst the flood of RPG's coming out you're likely to find something you will enjoy. If not, wait, someone is bound to get around to it eventually.



Borderlands 2, nuff said

hardly any of those are RPGs

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

hardly any of those are RPGs

 Why?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

marshalleck wrote...

Why shouldn't an RPG cater to RPG fans?

Should a shooter not cater to shooter fans? A flight sim for flight sim fans? So on and so on?

No, games should cater to gamers.  Sims are a different story.

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

hardly any of those are RPGs

 Why?

Actually scratch that, only half are

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

hardly any of those are RPGs

 Why?

Actually scratch that, only half are

Then why are the other half not RPG's?

[marshalleck]

because they're action/adventure/shooter games?

[Nohvarr]

because they're action/adventure/shooter games?

So Mass Effect was never an RPG in your opinion?

Modifié par Nohvarr, 09 août 2011 - 01:12 .

[Gatt9]

sedrikhcain wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Making a Shooter(ME2) or an Adventure game(Oblivion, Skyrim) and calling it an RPG isn't evolution,  it's mislabelling.  They all lack the qualities of an RPG,  and embody the qualities the other genres are defined by. 

Wow...ok I also stopped reading.

Oblivion and Skyrim aren't RPG's? Really? I don't even play those games (I watched someone on youtube playing them to see if I wanted to get the game) and I know they're RPG's...

This is the whole crux of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes an RPG and for some people, any deviation from whatever set image is in their head makes it a non-rpg. I think this is limiting for consumers and developers. We should not be dominated by pre-conceived notions about genre. It's confining and opressive. Embrace the game, no matter what, or reject it on its own merits, but don't do either because it does/doesn't fit into some hardwired idea about genre. It would be great if we could ditch the labels entirely.

You're right,  this is the crux of the problem,  but it's not that "Everyone has a different idea",  it's that there's people who hate RPG mechanics but for some strange reason want to pretend they like RPG's.  Remove the RPG mechanics,  you get an Adventure Game or a Shooter with a story,  the mechanics are what defines the genre.

Just like an FPS is defined by FPP and Shooting,  you cannot have a Third-person FPS.  You cannot have a Real-time-turn-based strategy.  You cannot have an RPG without a defined character whose Role you assume.

People want to pretend Oblivion and Skyrim are RPG's,  despite the fact that they lack pretty much all RPG elements (Thanks to level scaling making them redundant or outright removal).  They're not,  and they never will be.  They remain Adventure games,  no different from Tomb Raider in form and function.

The genres are what they are,  and everything falls into them.  Just like movies,  just like TV,  just like Books.

I'm always amazed that people demand RPG's be something they're not,  and never have been,  just to wear the "RPG Player" badge.  I often wonder if they go on flight sim boards and demand they be made like Wing Commander?  Because it makes about as much sense to demand RPG's play like Tomb Raider or Gears of War.

[Someone With Mass]

I think it's more like the RPG elements are branching out to other genres, which I also think is a great thing, because it can create new ways for RPG mechanics to be used.

It doesn't mean it's somehow worth less just because some mainstream game is using a level system or a customization system.

That's just a snobby way to think.

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

So Mass Effect was never an RPG in your opinion?

Where did you get that from? I never said any such thing.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 01:12 .

[Gatt9]

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, I'll say the following and leave it alone, because I'm getting tired of seeing the same argument getting started again and again. Let's take a look at what's coming out between now and 2013.

Deus Ex Human Revolution: A game where you can purchase upgrades to your conversation abilities and approch situations in multiple ways just for starters

Skyrim: a game where tha manner in which you play determines how your skills advance.

The Old Republic: we'd be here all day if I tried to list it's RPG creds.

X-men Destiny: moral choices, diablo loot drops, and significant character customization

Diablo 3: nuff said

Mass Effect 3: choice, character/armor/weapon customization etc.

Kingdoms of Amalur: choice, gear, character builds etc

Bioshock infinite: nuff said

X-Com: Choice and gear

Borderlands 2

Dishonored: Builds, Gear and choice

And that is discounting all the games that have significant RPG elements like customization, choice etc. Games like Rage, Batman AC, Prey 2 etc.

In short, are RPG's dying? No

Are RPG's evoloving? Yes

Are they moving in a direction everyone will like? Not always

The good news is that amongst the flood of RPG's coming out you're likely to find something you will enjoy. If not, wait, someone is bound to get around to it eventually.

That's a really entertaining list.  Of those 11 games,  6 of them are not RPG's,  most of the 6 are actually Shooters.  1 is an MMORPG.  You also left out the other 30 games coming that are all shooters.

Which illustrates my point,  6 of the games aren't even remotely close to being an RPG,  but here they're listed as one?

[marshalleck]

lightsnow13 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

So Mass Effect was never an RPG in your opinion?

Where did you get that from? I never said any such thing.

Well...it was always a 3rd person shooter...

kind of a hybrid isn't it? ME2 less so than ME1, but still

[Nohvarr]

Gatt9 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, I'll say the following and leave it alone, because I'm getting tired of seeing the same argument getting started again and again. Let's take a look at what's coming out between now and 2013.

Deus Ex Human Revolution: A game where you can purchase upgrades to your conversation abilities and approch situations in multiple ways just for starters

Skyrim: a game where tha manner in which you play determines how your skills advance.

The Old Republic: we'd be here all day if I tried to list it's RPG creds.

X-men Destiny: moral choices, diablo loot drops, and significant character customization

Diablo 3: nuff said

Mass Effect 3: choice, character/armor/weapon customization etc.

Kingdoms of Amalur: choice, gear, character builds etc

Bioshock infinite: nuff said

X-Com: Choice and gear

Borderlands 2

Dishonored: Builds, Gear and choice

And that is discounting all the games that have significant RPG elements like customization, choice etc. Games like Rage, Batman AC, Prey 2 etc.

In short, are RPG's dying? No

Are RPG's evoloving? Yes

Are they moving in a direction everyone will like? Not always

The good news is that amongst the flood of RPG's coming out you're likely to find something you will enjoy. If not, wait, someone is bound to get around to it eventually.

That's a really entertaining list.  Of those 11 games,  6 of them are not RPG's,  most of the 6 are actually Shooters.  1 is an MMORPG.  You also left out the other 30 games coming that are all shooters.

Which illustrates my point,  6 of the games aren't even remotely close to being an RPG,  but here they're listed as one?

An MMORPG is an RPG designed to be played in a persistant world.

Now which six games are you talking about?

kind of a hybrid isn't it? ME2 less so than ME1, but still

Which games on that list don't fit your definition of RPG?

Modifié par Nohvarr, 09 août 2011 - 01:18 .

[Sombrero Bandit]

RPG's aren't dying. People are just losing taste and expecting more and more in them. Previous games set the roles for RPG's and people were wanting more from what they saw. An example would be like pizza. You first try it and it's good. Then you think of so many ways to make it better. Add this, add that. Well that's how it is for games. It starts out as a good RPG. But then people want this in it and want that. However game industries try to please more than one genre so its kinda hard to please everyone. Basically, RPG's aren't dying, it's just the demand for more and more "quantity" in the game is cutting the line for what is "RPG" and what is RPG.

[comrade8472]

this is an rpg.
have no idea why role playing games are RPG.
so are all threads talking about RPGs actually terrorist threats?
or do I get the wrong impression. Sure hope so!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Role playing games = every game. even  RTS ,Shooters even cod/halo/battlefield...
even well mabey not farm ville no wait even that...
so now then what game is not a role playing game????  

[marshalleck]

lightsnow13 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

So Mass Effect was never an RPG in your opinion?

Where did you get that from? I never said any such thing.

Well...it was always a 3rd person shooter...

kind of a hybrid isn't it? ME2 less so than ME1, but still

you do realize that what you said was entirely hypocritical, right? The other games are hybrids but because ME1 is a hybrid and started off slightly more RPG-ish it constitutes an RPG. So ME2 is also an RPG then. Thats good, I'm glad you agree.

Now you're just fumbling over your own words.... I kind of feel like I'm feeding a troll.

I'm not fumbling over anything. Have you confused me with someone else? Why don't you quote me saying ME2 wasn't an RPG (or at least an RPGish hybrid)

[sedrikhcain]

Gatt9 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Making a Shooter(ME2) or an Adventure game(Oblivion, Skyrim) and calling it an RPG isn't evolution,  it's mislabelling.  They all lack the qualities of an RPG,  and embody the qualities the other genres are defined by. 

Wow...ok I also stopped reading.

Oblivion and Skyrim aren't RPG's? Really? I don't even play those games (I watched someone on youtube playing them to see if I wanted to get the game) and I know they're RPG's...

This is the whole crux of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes an RPG and for some people, any deviation from whatever set image is in their head makes it a non-rpg. I think this is limiting for consumers and developers. We should not be dominated by pre-conceived notions about genre. It's confining and opressive. Embrace the game, no matter what, or reject it on its own merits, but don't do either because it does/doesn't fit into some hardwired idea about genre. It would be great if we could ditch the labels entirely.

You're right,  this is the crux of the problem,  but it's not that "Everyone has a different idea",  it's that there's people who hate RPG mechanics but for some strange reason want to pretend they like RPG's.  Remove the RPG mechanics,  you get an Adventure Game or a Shooter with a story,  the mechanics are what defines the genre.

Just like an FPS is defined by FPP and Shooting,  you cannot have a Third-person FPS.  You cannot have a Real-time-turn-based strategy.  You cannot have an RPG without a defined character whose Role you assume.

People want to pretend Oblivion and Skyrim are RPG's,  despite the fact that they lack pretty much all RPG elements (Thanks to level scaling making them redundant or outright removal).  They're not,  and they never will be.  They remain Adventure games,  no different from Tomb Raider in form and function.

The genres are what they are,  and everything falls into them.  Just like movies,  just like TV,  just like Books.

I'm always amazed that people demand RPG's be something they're not,  and never have been,  just to wear the "RPG Player" badge.  I often wonder if they go on flight sim boards and demand they be made like Wing Commander?  Because it makes about as much sense to demand RPG's play like Tomb Raider or Gears of War.

Hmmm, I certainly agree with you that the "RPG gamer" designation is sought after for street cred. I think that's ridiculous but that is the way it works. However, to say that Oblivion and Tomb Raider are no different from each other in form and function is ridiculous. In one, you build a character through initial choices and your own distinct build. In the other, you play a preset role that you don't customize at all. They are not analogous