477 réponses à ce sujet

[xSTONEYx187x]

I prefer the type of RPG's that focus on story, dialogue and choice ala Mass Effect, then you have RPG's like Shenume, which I love I hope and pray that Sega will at least release a HD re-release like alot of developers are doing with their past IP's.

Then you JRPG's like Lost Odyssey, what a brilliant game I might add, which is about the story, charatcers and customization.

You also have the "here's a big, open world, now go play" RPG's like Fallout 3, New Vegas, Oblivion and Skyrim. 

These types of games truly define the RPG genre, not stats and loot.

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 09 août 2011 - 01:26 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

As =always= this thread has turned into this thread.

[HTTP 404]

sedrikhcain wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Making a Shooter(ME2) or an Adventure game(Oblivion, Skyrim) and calling it an RPG isn't evolution,  it's mislabelling.  They all lack the qualities of an RPG,  and embody the qualities the other genres are defined by. 

Wow...ok I also stopped reading.

Oblivion and Skyrim aren't RPG's? Really? I don't even play those games (I watched someone on youtube playing them to see if I wanted to get the game) and I know they're RPG's...

This is the whole crux of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes an RPG and for some people, any deviation from whatever set image is in their head makes it a non-rpg. I think this is limiting for consumers and developers. We should not be dominated by pre-conceived notions about genre. It's confining and opressive. Embrace the game, no matter what, or reject it on its own merits, but don't do either because it does/doesn't fit into some hardwired idea about genre. It would be great if we could ditch the labels entirely.

andraste's teats!  you are a refreshing cup of water here on bsn.  my sentiments exactly. no labels, just the game.

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

Which games on that list don't fit your definition of RPG?

X-Men Destiny: I can't tell wtf this is supposed to be. The game's website is useless.

Bioshock Infinite: since when was Bioshock anything ever RPG?

X-Com

Borderlands isn't really RPG, though I really enjoyed the first, so don't think I'm slagging it

Dishonored: looks like an action game to me

Rage, Batman, Prey 2, all action/shooter games

Diablo 3 is hack n' slash/dungeon crawl

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 01:29 .

[Someone With Mass]

sedrikhcain wrote...
This is the whole crux of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes an RPG and for some people, any deviation from whatever set image is in their head makes it a non-rpg. I think this is limiting for consumers and developers. We should not be dominated by pre-conceived notions about genre. It's confining and opressive. Embrace the game, no matter what, or reject it on its own merits, but don't do either because it does/doesn't fit into some hardwired idea about genre. It would be great if we could ditch the labels entirely.

Probably the best comment in this whole thread.

[marshalleck]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Because that is what this whole "RPG's are dying" thing is stemming from. ME2 isn't an RPG apparently. ME2 has parts of the various games on the list -- they all play similar to each other in some way. Yet that list "hardly has any RPG's"

Either way, this will be last post about this subject. RPG's are changing and evolving. When ME3 comes out, I highly doubt everyone will immediately jump on what is wrong with the game. Yes there are things wrong with both ME1 and ME2 but none-the-less, the games are fun to play. It's just a matter of accepting what you can't control.

Okay. I never said anything about ME2 until I was asked about it, so I don't see why you're getting all bent out of shape about it with me

Probably a good time for you to take a break, you seem a bit flustered

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 01:31 .

[Golden Owl]

So long as Silverman is just talking out of his *ss and is wrong, I will be happy...I will be VERY unhappy if those of us who have played the series and want to see real repercussions to our decisions are tossed aside in favor of new comers...HEY SILVERMAN...I remember all the choices I made, what I saw, where I went in ME1 and I expect it to MATTER!!

[DxWill10]

This part from the article made me laugh: "We’re not saying one is better than the other, but..."

You didn't just spend the entire article explaining why you thought the cumbersome inventroy system in ME1 was superior to the smooth compelling flawless gameplay of ME2?

I loved ME1. I loved ME2 better.

ME2 was absolutely better received as a whole than ME1 was. ME2 was rated higher than ME1 by every major video game rating corporation. Regardless of what anyone think, the facts speak for themselves.
ME2 was without a doubt amazingly well received, more so than ME1. Personally, I hope ME3 is the exact same as ME2, with some customization elements from ME1. Regardless, ME3 will be the best of the series.

Also, RPGs are evolving obviously, by definition. Just because you don't like the evolution doesn't mean it isn't evolution

[Jaron Oberyn]

DxWill10 wrote...

This part from the article made me laugh: "We’re not saying one is better than the other, but..."

You didn't just spend the entire article explaining why you thought the cumbersome inventroy system in ME1 was superior to the smooth compelling flawless gameplay of ME2?

I loved ME1. I loved ME2 better.

ME2 was absolutely better received as a whole than ME1 was. ME2 was rated higher than ME1 by every major video game rating corporation. Regardless of what anyone think, the facts speak for themselves.
ME2 was without a doubt amazingly well received, more so than ME1. Personally, I hope ME3 is the exact same as ME2, with some customization elements from ME1. Regardless, ME3 will be the best of the series.

Also, RPGs are evolving obviously, by definition. Just because you don't like the evolution doesn't mean it isn't evolution

Just because a bunch of CoD saturated casual gaming review sites gave it high scores doesn't make it a better game. The Mass Effect franchise, thanks to ME2, is struggling to find out what genre it is. Is it an RPG, or is it a Shooter? Bioware's leaning towards the shooting side, although they leave a few role playing elements. However, some of these roleplaying elements are starting to disappear, and it looks like ME3 will be full GoW clone. That's what they're aiming for unfortunately. As the article pointed out, instead of showing how an RPG can have good RPG elements, story, and combat, they opted out for the cheap way and made it a third person shooter. I enjoy the game, don't get me wrong, but I don't enjoy ME2 as an RPG because it simply isn't. If you consider ME2 an RPG, then you'll have to include AC:2, because it's pretty much the same minus the dialogue system, although AC:2 has better exploration.


-Polite

[Nohvarr]

That's a really entertaining list.  Of those 11 games,  6 of them are not RPG's,  most of the 6 are actually Shooters.  1 is an MMORPG.  You also left out the other 30 games coming that are all shooters.

Which illustrates my point,  6 of the games aren't even remotely close to being an RPG,  but here they're listed as one?

Well, it' obvious you and I won't agree since you don't even consder Skyrim and RPG, that said, here's a quick rundown of the types of gamescoming out between now and 2013

Pure Shooters (and I'm being generous) - 15
RPG (Ability to ater plot, character builds and/or gear) - 16
Hybrids (A mix of the two) - 10
Action/Adventure - 11
Strategy - 6

the rest are sports/vehicle/survival etc games

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Which games on that list don't fit your definition of RPG?

X-Men Destiny: I can't tell wtf this is supposed to be. The game's website is useless.

An action/rpg were you pick one of three mutants, then choose their power set,then alter their power set based on droped loot and finally decide whether to follow Professor Xaviers dream or Magnetos.

Bioshock Infinite: since when was Bioshock anything ever RPG?

Sice you had a moral choice, and were given a limited amout of resources and the ability to build your character in a fashion you the player choose.

X-Com

A hybrid, bu you still pick your team, choose objectives and decide how to deal with found Alien tech. One previewer even said "It's basically Mass Effect"

Borderlands isn't really RPG, though I really enjoyed the first, so don't think I'm slagging it

Why not? It has an obscene amount of loot and the ability to build your character as you see fit?

Dishonored: looks like an action game to me

Then you weren't paying attention. The game allows you to build a character as you see fit then approch the various challenges of the world in any manner you desire. On top of that, the game tracks how 'chaotic' you are in completeing objectives and adjusts the story accordingly.

Also, I'd suggest you look at the two men who are responsible for the game before you dismiss it as an action title.

Rage, Batman, Prey 2, all action/shooter games

They're hybrids, for example Prey 2 gives the player a lot of choice in how to approch capturing bounties, and wha to do with thm once captured.

Diablo 3 is hack n' slash/dungeon crawl

So the ability to build ones character with loot and skill upgrades is no longer considered 'RPG enough'?

[sedrikhcain]

HTTP 404 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Making a Shooter(ME2) or an Adventure game(Oblivion, Skyrim) and calling it an RPG isn't evolution,  it's mislabelling.  They all lack the qualities of an RPG,  and embody the qualities the other genres are defined by. 

Wow...ok I also stopped reading.

Oblivion and Skyrim aren't RPG's? Really? I don't even play those games (I watched someone on youtube playing them to see if I wanted to get the game) and I know they're RPG's...

This is the whole crux of the problem. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes an RPG and for some people, any deviation from whatever set image is in their head makes it a non-rpg. I think this is limiting for consumers and developers. We should not be dominated by pre-conceived notions about genre. It's confining and opressive. Embrace the game, no matter what, or reject it on its own merits, but don't do either because it does/doesn't fit into some hardwired idea about genre. It would be great if we could ditch the labels entirely.

andraste's teats!  you are a refreshing cup of water here on bsn.  my sentiments exactly. no labels, just the game.

I prefer andraste's holy knickers, myself. But glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Nohvarr]

At the end of the day I don't ask if it was a good RPG, shooter or driving sim. I ask if I had fun playing. So far nothing I've seen of ME 3 suggests that the game won't be a joy to play.

[sedrikhcain]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

DxWill10 wrote...

This part from the article made me laugh: "We’re not saying one is better than the other, but..."

You didn't just spend the entire article explaining why you thought the cumbersome inventroy system in ME1 was superior to the smooth compelling flawless gameplay of ME2?

I loved ME1. I loved ME2 better.

ME2 was absolutely better received as a whole than ME1 was. ME2 was rated higher than ME1 by every major video game rating corporation. Regardless of what anyone think, the facts speak for themselves.
ME2 was without a doubt amazingly well received, more so than ME1. Personally, I hope ME3 is the exact same as ME2, with some customization elements from ME1. Regardless, ME3 will be the best of the series.

Also, RPGs are evolving obviously, by definition. Just because you don't like the evolution doesn't mean it isn't evolution

Just because a bunch of CoD saturated casual gaming review sites gave it high scores doesn't make it a better game. The Mass Effect franchise, thanks to ME2, is struggling to find out what genre it is. Is it an RPG, or is it a Shooter? Bioware's leaning towards the shooting side, although they leave a few role playing elements. However, some of these roleplaying elements are starting to disappear, and it looks like ME3 will be full GoW clone. That's what they're aiming for unfortunately. As the article pointed out, instead of showing how an RPG can have good RPG elements, story, and combat, they opted out for the cheap way and made it a third person shooter. I enjoy the game, don't get me wrong, but I don't enjoy ME2 as an RPG because it simply isn't. If you consider ME2 an RPG, then you'll have to include AC:2, because it's pretty much the same minus the dialogue system, although AC:2 has better exploration.


-Polite

just out of curiosity, can you name a game out in the last, say, 4 years that you consider an RPG?

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

So the ability to build ones character with loot and skill upgrades is no longer considered 'RPG enough'?

You asked me for my opinion. I gave it. Character building is fun, I'm a min-maxer/concepter myself, but I don't think it defines RPG. RPG isn't defined by loot either. It's about shaping the game's story through decisions and seeing how it all plays out. Bioshock's "save the girl/juice the girl" hardly strikes me as a compelling "moral decision." It's more of a benefit now/later gameplay mechanic.

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

So the ability to build ones character with loot and skill upgrades is no longer considered 'RPG enough'?

You asked me for my opinion. I gave it. Character building is fun, I'm a min-maxer/concepter myself, but I don't think it defines RPG. RPG isn't defined by loot either. It's about shaping the game's story through decisions and seeing how it all plays out. Bioshock's "save the girl/juice the girl" hardly strikes me as a compelling "moral decision." It's more of a benefit now/later gameplay mechanic.

Ah, so the ability to alter the games story based on what you do is what makes an RPG for you? Then Bioshock Infininte fits your bill. The last 15 minute game play teaser showed two branching spots. In one you could choose to scavenge for more resources, or continue straight to your objective, the other involved saving a man from a lynch mob or letting him die. Not only that, but the way you treat your female companion (Elizabeth I think) and her Guardian/Jealous Ex-boyfriend, Songbird, dictates how the story goes.

The same is true of Dishonored where the story changes depending on how much chaos you leave in your wake, and Prey 2 in which your moral choices dictate how the world reacts to you. X-men destiny also has a branching story dependant on you decisions, same with Kingdoms of Amular, Skyrim, Deus Ex, and X-com.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 09 août 2011 - 02:10 .

[marshalleck]

Uh, no. Being presented two rails to choose from as I progress through a level isn't the sort of decision-making I'm talking about. If that were the case, Gears of War would be an RPG. I'm talking about altering the course of the narrative, as was done with Witcher 2 for example, and many older CRPGs.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 02:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Just because a bunch of CoD saturated casual gaming review sites gave it high scores doesn't make it a better game. The Mass Effect franchise, thanks to ME2, is struggling to find out what genre it is. Is it an RPG, or is it a Shooter? Bioware's leaning towards the shooting side, although they leave a few role playing elements. However, some of these roleplaying elements are starting to disappear, and it looks like ME3 will be full GoW clone. That's what they're aiming for unfortunately. As the article pointed out, instead of showing how an RPG can have good RPG elements, story, and combat, they opted out for the cheap way and made it a third person shooter. I enjoy the game, don't get me wrong, but I don't enjoy ME2 as an RPG because it simply isn't. If you consider ME2 an RPG, then you'll have to include AC:2, because it's pretty much the same minus the dialogue system, although AC:2 has better exploration.


-Polite

How about checking ME3 out first before you spew out that RPG elitist crap? Because the bolded part is a flat out lie.

If anything, I belive strongly that ME3 will surpass ME1 with ease in terms of RPG-ness or whatever you want to call it and gameplay.

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Uh, no. Being presented two rails to choose from as I progress through a level isn't the sort of decision-making I'm talking about. If that were the case, Gears of War would be an RPG. I'm talking about altering the course of the narrative, as was done with Witcher 2 for example, and many older CRPGs.

I just said that the game changes not only because of decisions like which path to take, and whether or not to save a person, but also in how you treat your companion.

[marshalleck]

So you say. Considering the pedigree, I'll remain skeptical.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 02:20 .