403 réponses à ce sujet

[ubermensch007]

Well said armass... thanks for putting in your two cents.

I guess though.I remember back when KOTOR 2 came out.I was expecting and hoping that this time around.We would have the option of being a non human protagonist.But nooooooooooooooo... The Exile. The hero has to be human.

I must say that i was surprised when Dragon Age: Orgins came out - and BioWare actually finally allowed us to not have to be a goddamn human hero for a change. <_<

Edit; And yes, I know that KOTOR 2 was made by Obsidian Games and not BioWare.But you know what i mean.

Modifié par ubermensch007, 14 septembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[TobyHasEyes]

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Maybe if it must be that way temporarily, but I hate the constant struggle. It may lead to advances, but it adds up to so much wasted effort. I want to see sapient beings truly united, focused on the betterment of all and leaving petty rivalries behind.

Simply put, that is not going to happen.

In depth: Without some sort of struggle toward and end, advancement necessarily stagnates. You say that conflict is 'wasted effort', but produces results. Lets say only 5% of effort in a conflict produces some sort of advancement. I would point out that without conflict, there is not need for results, meaning that any effort to maintain such a status quo is going to result in less than 1% of all effort producing and advancement.

While I acknowledge that a society that could actually produce advancements with a large % of its efforts w/o some sort of conflict would be a magnificent thing, it is simply in opposition of every known behavior of naturally occurring species. Your best bet would be with a manufactured species such as the Geth, which have been working in isolation toward their mega-construct independent of any major conflict. However, once that goal is achieved, they will likely plateau and stagnate unless they discover some new sort of goal to work towards.

 It is a widely held falsehood that advancements have some necessary link to competition and warfare. Firstly, I'd state that technological advancements only occur disproportionately during conflict because research receives much higher funding in those times. It is not beyond belief that united species, or even preacefully independent species could maintain that budgeting (assuming they are not employing a WW1/2-esque borrowing frenzy)

 My big issue is that people see a universe in which people struggle, fight and scramble to be dominant as desirable because it involves speedy technological advancement

 What you call 'plateau and stagnate' people might call peaceful spread of resources, slower paced research independent of warfare etc. in other words.. an enjoyable place for people to live in

 I can understand people being skeptical about the chances of inter-species co-operation, or even intra-species co-operation, but the idea that it is undesirable seems bogus to me

[Wulfram]

Inventing a whole galaxy of inferior races in order to boost our own egos seems rather pathetic.

[didymos1120]

Wulfram wrote...

Inventing a whole galaxy of inferior races in order to boost our own egos seems rather pathetic.

Good thing the games don't take the attitude that they're inferior then.

[Someone With Mass]

Wulfram wrote...

Inventing a whole galaxy of inferior races in order to boost our own egos seems rather pathetic.

Especially when we can do whatever we want and just get a wrist slap for it if we get caught, while other races are almost driven to extinction when they're doing something bad.

[CroGamer002]

Wulfram wrote...

Inventing a whole galaxy of inferior races in order to boost our own egos seems rather pathetic.

Only that it didn't happen with Mass Effect.

[Wulfram]

didymos1120 wrote...

Good thing the games don't take the attitude that they're inferior then.

"Humans are Special" is just another way of saying that Aliens are inferior

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Inventing a whole galaxy of inferior races in order to boost our own egos seems rather pathetic.

Especially when we can do whatever we want and just get a wrist slap for it if we get caught, while other races are almost driven to extinction when they're doing something bad.

If you're referring to the AI research in Revelation, it's hardly comparable to the geth situation or the Krogan Rebellions.  Also:  Relay 314. Not what I'd call a slap on the wrist

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 septembre 2011 - 10:33 .

[lovgreno]

Wulfram wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Good thing the games don't take the attitude that they're inferior then.

"Humans are Special" is just another way of saying that Aliens are inferior

Or perhaps saying that you want to feel superior.

[didymos1120]

Wulfram wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Good thing the games don't take the attitude that they're inferior then.

"Humans are Special" is just another way of saying that Aliens are inferior

No, it's really not. 

[Someone With Mass]

didymos1120 wrote...
If you're referring to the AI research in Revelation, it's hardly comparable to the geth situation or the Krogan Rebellions.  Also:  Relay 314. Not what I'd call a slap on the wrist

Compared to other wars that were driven for years and billions of lives that were lost? It is.

I was also thinking more along the lines of...project TRAPDOOR and project DOORWAY.

[CroGamer002]

If humans are special then how come some small Turian patrol was capable to conquer human colony with garrison then?

Modifié par Mesina2, 14 septembre 2011 - 10:51 .

[Wulfram]

Mesina2 wrote...

If humans are special then how come some small Turian patrol was capable to conquer human colony with garrison then?

You're referring to the war where the Turians got outfought by a humanity with less than a decade's experience of Mass Effect technology, no idea of even the existence of Biotics and no expertise in space combat?

Since that colony can only have existed for 5 years max, there can't have been much of a population or garrison there.

[CroGamer002]

^If humans were really special, they would have win occupation without assistance of the fleet.


Every single success humanity had is do to chance and luck.

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I was also thinking more along the lines of...project TRAPDOOR and project DOORWAY.

And those are Cerberus projects that we only know of from Shadow Broker files.  And even if they were known: Cerberus. Projects.   The Council wouldn't levy sanctions or whatever on the Alliance for them anyway, because the Alliance wasn't the one breaking laws.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[didymos1120]

Wulfram wrote...

You're referring to the war where the Turians got outfought by a humanity with less than a decade's experience of Mass Effect technology, no idea of even the existence of Biotics and no expertise in space combat?

No, it was the war in which a small turian patrol fleet was taken by surprise.  That hardly counts as outfighting the turian military as a whole.  In actuality, the fact is that we got really lucky there.  And biotics are irrelevant, since they're vanishingly rare amongst turians anyway.

Since that colony can only have existed for 5 years max, there can't have been much of a population or garrison there.

Which is irrelevant since it wasn't the people on the colony who attacked the occupying force.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 septembre 2011 - 11:11 .

[Wulfram]

didymos1120 wrote...

No, it was the war in which a small turian patrol fleet was taken by surprise.  That hardly counts as being outfighting the turian military as a whole.  In actuality, the fact is that we got really lucky there.  And biotics are irrelevant, since they're vanishingly rare amongst turians anyway.

We took less casualties, we took back Shanxi.  That counts as outfighting them.  Despite having no experience in fighting wars with Mass Effect technology.

Yes, the Turians could probably have swarmed us with superior numbers.  But it's still an utterly pitiful performance from any race with pretensions to military competency.

[marshalleck]

Mesina2 wrote...

^If humans were really special, they would have win occupation without assistance of the fleet.


Every single success humanity had is do to chance and luck.

Success is often all about capitalizing on chance and luck. There's nothing wrong with that; it's the smart move to make.

Modifié par marshalleck, 14 septembre 2011 - 12:44 .

[CroGamer002]

I just wrote this about "humanity is special" in Mass Effect arguments.

[CroGamer002]

marshalleck wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^If humans were really special, they would have win occupation without assistance of the fleet.


Every single success humanity had is do to chance and luck.

Success is often all about capitalizing on chance and luck. There's nothing wrong with that; it's the smart move to make.

But it doesn't make you special.
That's what I'm arguing against.

[marshalleck]

And it's not what makes humans "special" in the ME lore either. The only thing that makes us special there is our DNA is highly malleable, and that's a dubious distinction at best.

[CroGamer002]

^Agreed.

Hold on.
I'm agreeing with you?

[marshalleck]

Don't worry, it's normal. Everyone comes around to see sense eventually. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 14 septembre 2011 - 01:10 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Indeed. My opinion has gone up quite a bit since Barrus started agreeing with me.

[Seboist]

Marshal is a good Cerberus blood brother. Agreeing with him means you're on the right path.