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[Escapulario100]

All species have something expecial. Example: Salarians are smart, Quarians are tech expert, Volus are great merchants, Turians have a great sence of public sence. So, what do we humans have? Will power

[Whatever42]

Escapulario100 wrote...

All species have something expecial. Example: Salarians are smart, Quarians are tech expert, Volus are great merchants, Turians have a great sence of public sence. So, what do we humans have? Will power

Actually, this is a fantasy trope right from dungeons and dragons. All the races have specialized qualities except humans, whose quality is adaptability. 

So dwarfs might make the best warriors and elves the best wizards but humans can be both, although not *quite* as good.

Humans being chosen by the Reapers for their variability is probably a continuation of the same trope. 

[jamesp81]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Really?

It's quite simple. Bioware is in business to make money. They don't make money by making a game that gets all preachy to their 100% human audience about how humans are not noteworthy, inherently bad, or are of no unique intrinsic worth.

Grow the hell up people.

Pessimism is no good philosophy to live by.

Thinking a game portraying humans would have to make them special in any remarkable form to actually sell is a prejudice.

It's not prejudice.  It's common sense.

If people want a sermon, they go to church.  A game is not a good platform for sermonizing, not if one expects to make any money off of it.

Furthermore, turning a profit is not prejudicial or pessimistic.  Merely realistic.  Seeking to make money does not mean the devs aren't putting their hearts and souls into it.  They have a talent and they wish to profit from that talent.  Nothing wrong or pessimistic about that.

[Agamo45]

I always thought that one of the themes of the story was how humanity was stronger and more adaptable than the other races. In ME1 we see that the Council races are slow, blind, and stubborn, ignorant in their false sense of security. Then when it all falls apart it takes humanity to put it back together. It is clear that only humanity has what it takes, the ruthlessness and the willpower to survive and lead the other races to victory.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Agamo45 wrote...

I always thought that one of the themes of the story was how humanity was stronger and more adaptable than the other races. In ME1 we see that the Council races are slow, blind, and stubborn, ignorant in their false sense of security. Then when it all falls apart it takes humanity to put it back together. It is clear that only humanity has what it takes, the ruthlessness and the willpower to survive and lead the other races to victory.

I know what you're saying but try to see it from the Council's perspective.

A Human soldier tells them he's had visions of an impending apocalypse, but cant corroborate it with hard evidence. When you get hard evidence against Saren they do help you upto a point.

How about this : A decorated war veteran from the present day starts to go around spouting 'Repent, the end is nigh', now do we believe him if he says he had visions from a 'special' object? not really.

Shepherd was 'lucky' to be next to the Beacon, it could easily have been Nihlus if he hadn't been killed.

[Someone With Mass]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

I know what you're saying but try to see it from the Council's perspective.

A Human soldier tells them he's had visions of an impending apocalypse, but cant corroborate it with hard evidence. When you get hard evidence against Saren they do help you upto a point.

How about this : A decorated war veteran from the present day starts to go around spouting 'Repent, the end is nigh', now do we believe him if he says he had visions from a 'special' object? not really.

Shepherd was 'lucky' to be next to the Beacon, it could easily have been Nihlus if he hadn't been killed.

Ha, that'd been fun. Receiving mission objectives from Nihlus throughout the game.

[LadyJaneGrey]

jamesp81 wrote...

If people want a sermon, they go to church.  A game is not a good platform for sermonizing, not if one expects to make any money off of it.

Sorry for the rabbit trail, but: I'm not sure that's true.  The Bioshock games seem to have done pretty well for themselves.

[Rekkampum]

Humans aren't special. Shepard is.

[Pulletlamer]

Humans ARE special. Just listen to Mordin on his loyalty mission:

[goofyomnivore]

There have been subtle hints that humans are special/superior throughout both games. I'm not in favor of it being a major plot element. It is a stale/predictable trope/cliche. It's presence is here though and it may be foreshadowing. I hope not.

[Rekkampum]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Humans ARE special. Just listen to Mordin on his loyalty mission:

Opinio does not equal Scientia. Also, Mordin is talking about an evolutionary advantage that makes us preferable for experiments, not some clandestine trait, unless you consider being a replacement for lab rats something that makes us "special."

Modifié par Rekkampum, 08 août 2011 - 06:26 .

[Pulletlamer]

Rekkampum wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

Humans ARE special. Just listen to Mordin on his loyalty mission:

Opinio does not equal Scientia. Also, Mordin is talking about an evolutionary advantage that makes us preferable for experiments, not some clandestine trait, unless you consider being a replacement for lab rats something that makes us "special."

He was talking about humans being genetically diverse. That's what makes us special. Our genetical diversity.
Humans are more genetically diverse than any other species. That's something that makes us unique.

If you don't want to see it fine. Worse for you. Also I didn't say we should be lab rats at any point.

So yeah. If you want to be blind about it, it's your problem, not mine. Just don't try to tell me it's not the truth just because you have a diferent opinion about it.

Modifié par Pulletlamer, 08 août 2011 - 06:32 .

[Rekkampum]

Pulletlamer wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Pulletlamer wrote...

Humans ARE special. Just listen to Mordin on his loyalty mission:

Opinio does not equal Scientia. Also, Mordin is talking about an evolutionary advantage that makes us preferable for experiments, not some clandestine trait, unless you consider being a replacement for lab rats something that makes us "special."

He was talking about humans being genetically diverse. That's what makes us special. Our genetical diversity.

If you don't want to see it fine. Worse for you. Also I didn't say we should be lab rats at any point.

So yeah. If you want to be blind about it, it's your problem, not mine.

I've seen it. Second of all, being "genetically diverse" is an evolutionary advantage. You kind of learn that in Biology 101. If you want to ascribe some greater meaning to something purely coincidental, then you're entitled to. But, as the video you mentioned clearly shows, it's this same "genetic diversity" that made humans preferred subjects for their rather heinous research.

[Pulletlamer]

^ Whatever dude, you're missing the point of what I was trying to say.

I don't want to fight. Looks to me like you had a bad day. Not my fault.

[sponge56]

Why the hell not? Humans are more geneticaly diverse than everyone else, and so thats bad writing is it? Why arent we moaning that the asari are special, as they are natural biotics. As many hae already said humanity is special in that in the ME universe we are more driven than other species, meaning w accomplish more faster and greater than any other species. Also, name me a popular sci fi with humanity in it where humans are just a load of crap with nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. Yes it would be cool to have one, but people need some kind of perspective on the universe they are imursing themselves in, a humanity being in some way 'special' is a good way of doing it

[Vengeful Nature]

sponge56 wrote...

Why the hell not? Humans are more geneticaly diverse than everyone else, and so thats bad writing is it?

Yes. It's a case of "didn't do the research." Greater human genetic diversity compared to the possible (likely) genetic diversity of other species is hokum.

Why arent we moaning that the asari are special, as they are natural biotics.

Maybe I'm being a little off-topic, here, but does anyone else see this as a retcon? The asari were never universally biotic in ME1, it's just stated that biotics are "common enough that they are required for military service" or something like that. Anyway, back on topic, folks.

Modifié par Vengeful Nature, 08 août 2011 - 07:09 .

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

sponge56 wrote...

Why the hell not? Humans are more geneticaly diverse than everyone else, and so thats bad writing is it? Why arent we moaning that the asari are special, as they are natural biotics. As many hae already said humanity is special in that in the ME universe we are more driven than other species, meaning w accomplish more faster and greater than any other species. Also, name me a popular sci fi with humanity in it where humans are just a load of crap with nothing whatsoever to do with the plot. Yes it would be cool to have one, but people need some kind of perspective on the universe they are imursing themselves in, a humanity being in some way 'special' is a good way of doing it

What was it someone once said? ' Individuals are smart, People are stupid', well thats Humanity in a nutshell - and for verification on that I only have to turn on the TV.

At our present rate we'll never amount to a hill of beans  - paraphrasing Humphrey Bogart as 'Rick'

[GreenDragon37]

DonDaMon wrote...

Humans are special = lazy writing ...

This. This entirely.

Also, the fact that we are on par with the other races in about 40 years?

They should have made it a century at least between first contact and ME1's story. It was too soon for my tastes.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 08 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[azerSheppard]

marshalleck wrote...

self-hating liberal guilt

buthurt conservative

[Whatever42]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...

Humans are special = lazy writing ...

This. This entirely.

Also, the fact that we are on par with the other races in about 40 years?

They should have made it a century at least between first contact and ME1's story. It was too soon for my tastes.

In 40 years we went from bi-planes to fighter jets. We went from horses and dirt roads to super highways. When a technologically advanced race finds a trove of prothean technology, you don't think its possible we could do a tremendous leap forward?

And the other races are noted for being stagnant, on resting on prothean technology and the relay system. We have many parallels to this in our own history. 

Just because its not to your taste or you would have designed the galaxy different doesn't mean its lazy. It means that Bioware writers just have more imagination.

[TwistedComplex]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Lazy writing is unacceptable. Following the age old trope of "humans be speshul coz they be speshul herpyderp" is old, boring, and quite frankly, insulting.

If we were the only race in the galaxy, fair enough, but in a multi-raced adventure like ME, it would be nice for someone else to hold the trump card occasionally.

Yeah, until you put it into practice and realize how boring it is to take a backseat in the game that's supposed to be about YOU

[Someone With Mass]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

This. This entirely.

Also, the fact that we are on par with the other races in about 40 years?

They should have made it a century at least between first contact and ME1's story. It was too soon for my tastes.

They really want us to believe that the alien races reached a certain technological point and then it all just stopped moving forward for thousands of years. 

Because I find humanity being on par with alien technology in less than half a century to be just as ridiculous.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...

Humans are special = lazy writing ...

This. This entirely.

Also, the fact that we are on par with the other races in about 40 years?

They should have made it a century at least between first contact and ME1's story. It was too soon for my tastes.

In 40 years we went from bi-planes to fighter jets. We went from horses and dirt roads to super highways. When a technologically advanced race finds a trove of prothean technology, you don't think its possible we could do a tremendous leap forward?

And the other races are noted for being stagnant, on resting on prothean technology and the relay system. We have many parallels to this in our own history. 

Just because its not to your taste or you would have designed the galaxy different doesn't mean its lazy. It means that Bioware writers just have more imagination.

Though just because you find a trove of Prothean technology shouldn't necessarily mean you can quickly and readily assimilate it and use it for yourselves, it could take decades of R&D to find how things work, even though I used to be an avid watcher of many of the shows, this was always an achilles heal of the various Startrek series.

On a similar note - In just over 40years we've gone from people landing on the Moon to grounding, permanently, the Space Shuttle - and we're 100's, if not 1000's, of times more technologically advanced than we were in 1969.

[darth_lopez]

didymos1120 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

If, for example, Humans with 9 years of experience of advanced technology can out fight the Turians....

You realize the whole point of that was that we got lucky. They underestimated our military capacity.  Liberating Shanxi really was not due to our innate awesomeness.  The turians weren't gonna get caught out like that again and would have curbstomped us with ease if the Council hadn't stepped in.

Yet we still become the dominant military power no matter the outcome of ME 1. And the only species to successfully kill a reaper with our fleet. We still Defeated an Enemy that shouldn't have been defeated. There are 2 ways to look at the entire scenario "Oh we Got Lucky" demeaning the entire achievement for humanity. Or you realize through the games we were tactically, and Strategically superior to the Turians. You can even see the evidence in this from the Battle of Shanxi. Our naval strategy of holding a fleet with in jump distance of multiple colonies and leaving a small garrison on each world to "probe the enemy" if you will rather than defend out right worked. Furthermore the Codex's state we are a "Sleeping Giant" We have one of the smallest yet one of the strongest militaries in the universe but we have the capacity to field an even larger stronger one. The galaxy fears our military potential in ME 1 and comes to fear our Might in ME 2.