63 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

No, Wardens and mages should never be involved in politics. It was a mistake to ever give the Warden Commander a title.

Unfortunately for you, the new ruler of Ferelden disagrees. The Warden-Commander and Arl of Amaranthine can be a mage, and considering that the people of the nation think he's "blessed by the Maker" (as Queen Anora notes), there's really nothing the Chantry can do about it. And I don't see how it's a mistake when The Warden can save the lives of an entire city as the new Arl.

[EmperorSahlertz]

His duty as an Arl of Amaranthine would demand that he defends it to his last breath. His duty as a Warden may require him to abbandon it (and I'm not just talking about waht happens in Awakening). That is a conflict of interrest, that the Warden wouldn't have if he hadn't gotten a title.
And the only moment in history a Warden should ever involve hismelf in politics is during a Blight. Otherwise they should STFU and STFD, and let the actual noblemen of the country run their own country.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

His duty as an Arl of Amaranthine would demand that he defends it to his last breath. His duty as a Warden may require him to abbandon it (and I'm not just talking about waht happens in Awakening). That is a conflict of interrest, that the Warden wouldn't have if he hadn't gotten a title.

It's not a conflict of interest if he's a capable leader and fighter. Saving Amaranthine from the darkspawn is a plausible course of action for the man who acts as Warden-Commander and Arl of Amaranthine.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And the only moment in history a Warden should ever involve hismelf in politics is during a Blight. Otherwise they should STFU and STFD, and let the actual noblemen of the country run their own country.

I'm certain the survivors of the Amaranthine crisis would disagree.

[TEWR]

You see, if the Warden actually takes the time to do what he should do with his fortress (that being making it an actual fortress), he doesn't have to worry about it and there is no conflict of interest.

Hell he can go to Amaranthine alone if he wanted to and leave 5 Wardens at the Keep, and an entire little army equipped by Master Wade. If Dworkin works on his explosives and makes them powerful, the Keep has an incredible explosive device. Then there's the other Dwarf's masonry.

The Warden only has a conflict of interest if he's an idiot commander.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And again, I wasn't neccesarily talking about what happens during Awakening, but also in the future Blights to come. Even though in Awakening not everyone manages to completely upgrade their Keep, and even if they did, I'd wager the Wardens would rather let Amaranthine burn than take the chance that their Keep could hold, without their army and commander.

[TEWR]

without their army? The Warden goes into Amaranthine with only himself and at most 3 other people. The army stays at the Keep.

As for a commander, Seneschal Varel and the other guy are the commanders too. The Warden isn't the only commander. And considering Varel fought at Ostagar as a Captain, he knows how to command.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 04:49 .

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

And again, I wasn't neccesarily talking about what happens during Awakening, but also in the future Blights to come. Even though in Awakening not everyone manages to completely upgrade their Keep, and even if they did, I'd wager the Wardens would rather let Amaranthine burn than take the chance that their Keep could hold, without their army and commander.

Given that The Warden's actions would have repercussions in a nation that's only recently permitted the Grey Wardens to return, I see trying to save the City of Amaranthine as a valid course of action. And I'm sure that Duncan and the other Grey Wardens would have abandoned Ferelden to the Fifth Blight, but The Warden didn't. Neither did Alistair, or even Warden Loghain.

[DPSSOC]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And considering Varel fought at Ostagar as a Captain, he knows how to command.

Sorry I can't resist, needs to be said.

Because Ostagar went so well didn't it.

[LobselVith8]

DPSSOC wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And considering Varel fought at Ostagar as a Captain, he knows how to command.

Sorry I can't resist, needs to be said.

Because Ostagar went so well didn't it.

Probably didn't help that the Chantry only permitted seven mages to stop the Fifth Blight.

[TEWR]

Hah.

That Ostagar's battle failed doesn't mean Varel doesn't know how to command forces.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And considering Varel fought at Ostagar as a Captain, he knows how to command.

Sorry I can't resist, needs to be said.

Because Ostagar went so well didn't it.

Probably didn't help that the Chantry only permitted seven mages to stop the Fifth Blight.

To be fair we do have no idea if all of the mages and Templars would've been enough when there were thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of dwarves and hundreds of elves (though it's possible the battle could've been won with all of them if the Mages ran magic hell down on the Darkspawn before the soldiers charged into the lines. Because while the horde seemed endless, it obviously wasn't).

What didn't help was Arl Howe's betrayal of the Cousland army and not sending his forces south (as soldiers questioned where all of his men were). Or that people didn't believe the Wardens, who had saved them from 4 previous Blights, when they said it was a Blight.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 05:06 .

[DPSSOC]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
And considering Varel fought at Ostagar as a Captain, he knows how to command.

Sorry I can't resist, needs to be said.

Because Ostagar went so well didn't it.

Probably didn't help that the Chantry only permitted seven mages to stop the Fifth Blight.

True.  And the fact they trusted a man who essentially had "I'm evil and will betray you" tatooed on his forehead to bring reinforcements, or having an imbecile being the official man in charge.  Ok there were a lot of things wrong with Ostagar.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Hah. 

That Ostagar's battle failed doesn't mean Varel doesn't know how to command forces.

Also true, still not exactly the best thing to put on his resume, "I led men at Ostagar."

Modifié par DPSSOC, 09 août 2011 - 05:04 .

[TEWR]

Well, given the Warden's history with Ostagar, he'd understand that it wasn't his fault.

[Ulicus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Wardens still didn't hold titles, for the very reasons that their duties as a noble, could clash with their duties as a Warden.

Considering how quickly the First-Warden leaps at the opportunity for Wardens to hold titles, it's pretty clear that the only reason Wardens don't hold titles is because the nations of Thedas, as a rule, don't let them. It would seem as though it has nothing to do with them foreswearing titles as an Order, themselves.

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 août 2011 - 11:36 .