13 réponses à ce sujet

[el_sombrero]

Hi there guys,

 Does anyone knows where I can found different maze models.

 I wanted to create a real maze at my project. The one kind in which you can get lost and there is no obvious way out, no linear path. I know many of you will not recomend building this kind of structure, but it is really important to the experience I want to create in my project.
 Also, I'm concerned that I wont be able to create the strcuture I want with the 32x32 tyles limit that is imposed to interior areas, is there anyway to create bigger interior areas without using cenario transitions? I would like my maze to be one huge area, not several brokena minor areas.

 Cheers!

[kamal_]

Bigger than 32x32 without transition? No.

You could build with open tiles and place walls, it would be very tedious/painful and you would be limited by the space you kept between the walls. The tileblock and you would become bestest buddies.

Also you need to look at things like nomap for solving the ability of the player to use the minimap and just generally get an overhead view.

[painofdungeoneternal]

That is just a limit

You can do an exterior, and use the BCK from the vault to make the walls and such for it. That should be bigger.

For a finishing touch, I would add in collision blockers, which will prevent pathfinding to anywhere the players want, combined with setting the player to ignore them when they walk thru them ( trigger just outside of them ). Make sure the walls are not walkable in the baked walkmesh.

( using the following in a trigger, this just gets them past the collision blocker. )

effect eEffect = EffectCutsceneGhost();

Other option is to make it a teleport maze, but make it so the players have no idea this is going on ( whole party does it, remove anything dropped, and make it look similar in both before and after positions ) This would make the maze seem much larger than it actually is.

[el_sombrero]

Thx guys, lets go to the second round.

Kamal... about nomap, is it an utility or just the disabling of the minimap at the options menu?

Painofdungeoneternal... the idea of doing the maze using an exterior map model has crossed my mind... but I havent tried yet because I didint know how to place the walls. with the BCK i can place wall at an exterior map? It seems that to download the BCK from the link you sent I need the autodownloader... where do I get it? I tried to google it, but wasn't successful.
Uhm... I'm kind of a begginer with the toolset, so, what is a collision blocker?
About the teleport maze... if I choose this option the player still would be draged to the "loading" screen between the teleports, wouldn't it?

[painofdungeoneternal]

el_sombrero wrote...

Thx guys, lets go to the second round.

Kamal... about nomap, is it an utility or just the disabling of the minimap at the options menu?

Painofdungeoneternal... the idea of doing the maze using an exterior map model has crossed my mind... but I havent tried yet because I didint know how to place the walls. with the BCK i can place wall at an exterior map? It seems that to download the BCK from the link you sent I need the autodownloader... where do I get it? I tried to google it, but wasn't successful.

It is for the autodownloader, but it does not need it. You just use it as haks, and if you are running a PW that content works very well with the autodownloader.

If someone is using a PW with the BCK, then using those haks means they don't have to download them again.

If someone is using your module, then they go play on a PW with those haks, then it means they won't have to redownload them again.

At some point there will be a autodownloader for single player, but it does not exist yet -- basically an installer for your users which streamlines dealing with configuring things optimally.

Uhm... I'm kind of a begginer with the toolset, so, what is a collision blocker?

It's a placeable, search for it in the blueprints you can use. Then size as needed. It prevents passage until you delete it, or the creature is set to ghost. ( could just delete them as the person gets further in the maze, might make things less hassle AFTER the maze is solved. )

This is very advanced idea, involves scripting, triggers with custom scripts for on enter and on exit. But it blocks someone from being able to click on the exit and having the game walk them to it. I'd do this AFTER you get everything else done, and even then it mainly prevents something which is an exploit which may or may not be a problem. Really they are just ruining their own experience, and it might be a good thing if your maze is just too hard.

Triggers are a type of blueprint you can place, look for the triggers tab where you see the placeables tab.

You probably want to "hire" a scripter to help you set that up after your maze is done. ( there are many who will help you, and no i am not volunteering myself )

About the teleport maze... if I choose this option the player still would be draged to the "loading" screen between the teleports, wouldn't it?

Loading happens on area load, this would involve the same area, hence no load. It uses triggers to send people to waypoints.

[kamal_]

Nomap is a hak on the Vault

[rjshae]

Shouldn't it be possible to create a large interior map that is broken up into 'runs' with a door on each end (or even multiple doors), then use the door transition to shift the party to a different 'run'? That would make mapping the thing deucedly difficult, especially if you used stairs up and stairs down in places to confuse matters. (You would need to put a blank cell behind each door though.) In addition, I think you can use the ExploreAreaForPlayer function with nExplored=FALSE to undo the previous mapping. Just call it after each transition.

You'd have to be careful about door alignments for the transitions though, otherwise the party will end up facing the wrong way following the transition.

Modifié par rjshae, 08 août 2011 - 09:30 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

That is a teleport maze basically. Sounds like something out of a cartoon, but basically the same thing, just using doors and not triggers. ( doors are a type of trigger technically )

[Shaughn78]

I have had a few different tries on mazes. This is what I have found.

Interior mazes, it you use the single tile room (4 walls) it will make the map near to unreadable. It is almost impossible to tell which walls have doors and which don't.Throw a few loops and twist in there and you will have a decent maze.

For an exterior maze I used subareas with multiple exits in a single large area. One exit would move to the next subarea and the rest would jump the player to a random subarea they have already visited. The subareas are randomly located so there is no clear progression with the area map.

Another exterior trick would be to use something like BCK and make all the objects environmental or non-static & non-useable. This way they will not show up on the maps, again making it useless. Walkmesh cutters will be used to define your boundaries and walls.

There are several haks that will either add a blocking placeable to render the map unusable or disable the area and mini map.

Hope this helps.

[PJ156]

Teleporting would be the way to go for me as well. PORR has a nice little maze which uses this system on an interior maze.  I'm sure there are other good examples but I have not played them.

Having the map is less relevant. Knowing where you are in the maze is not the same as knowing your way out provided there is not pattern to the teleport destination.

PJ

[Morbane]

hey sombrero - if it seems like everyone is talking over your head - dont be hesitant to ask questions. Everyone posting here loves this stuff so ask all the short answer questions you like (or long answer ones for that matter).

[M. Rieder]

May I recommend that you play a few modules that have very large interior areas before you put one in your own module. It will help you sort out what you think works and what you think does not work. The campaign "Serene" has some absolutely massive interior areas. They are not mazes, but they will let you see what sort of game experience can be expected from a large interior area to help you be sure that is the effect you desire.

[el_sombrero]

okay,

First of all, thx all you dudes for your tips and suggestions.
Here goes round 3 (which may sound really noobish :0P :

1º Is autodownloader a custom software? Where do I get it?

2º At painofdungeoneternal message, what does de letters PW stand for? And since I'm here, what does BCK stands for?

3º How do I install the "BCK from the vault" that painofdungeoneternal suggested? (I got to the vault through the link, but that was it... I don't know what to do with the .lzma files).

4º About triggers. I have used some trap triggers to take and give hp to the player but, I havent used them to teleport the player. Which parameter should I alter at a trap triger to make it a teleportation trigger?

5º Any other tips about maze design ?

cheers!

[painofdungeoneternal]

Autodownloader is part of the Multiplayer game released with 1.23, a PW is a persistent world, it comes with the game and lets those playing together to have the person running the server configure everything.

BCK stands for Building Construction Kit, and it's basically modelled on oblivion ( i think ) and how their toolset works by someone named Nytir. It is a must have piece of content. You need the "BCKCombinedUtps.7z" and the "NytirHaksSingleDownload.7z" as well as the "2DA_Changes.txt" to use BCK. ( you can just use my placeables.2da if you want as well which has a lot combined, but each thing you use generally needs to be merged and combined so they work together )

Traps are a type of trigger, but these are different. You can put scripts into the on entered event to jump people to a waypoint for example. I have a rather large script project here which happens to have some ladder scripts which you can look at in the Area modifier folder. Look for TG_Ladder_OnEnter.nss and TG_Ladder_OnUse.nss

This is TG_Ladder_OnEnter.nss

void main()
{
	object oPC =  GetEnteringObject();
	object oLadder = OBJECT_SELF;
	string sWaypointName = GetLocalString( oLadder, "TG_LADDER_WP");
	string sMessage = GetLocalString( oLadder, "TG_LADDER_MESSAGE");
	object oWayPoint = GetObjectByTag( sWaypointName );
	
	//SpeakString("Taking character to "+sWaypointName);
	if ( GetIsObjectValid( oWayPoint ) )
	{
		location lWaypoint = GetLocation( oWayPoint );
		lWaypoint = CalcSafeLocation( oPC, lWaypoint, 10.0f, FALSE, FALSE );
		AssignCommand(oPC, JumpToLocation(lWaypoint));
		if ( sMessage != "" )
		{
			SendMessageToPC( oPC, sMessage );
		}
		
		object oPM = GetFirstFactionMember( oPC, FALSE );
		while ( GetIsObjectValid( oPM ) == TRUE )
		{
			if ( GetMaster( oPM ) == oPC && GetDistanceBetween(oPM, oPC) < RADIUS_SIZE_ASTRONOMIC )
			{
				AssignCommand( oPM, ClearAllActions() );
				AssignCommand( oPM, ActionForceMoveToLocation(GetLocation(oLadder), TRUE, 60.0f));
			}
			oPM = GetNextFactionMember( oPC, FALSE );
		}
	}
}

You set a variable on the trigger named "TG_LADDER_WP" in which you put the tag of a waypoint. You put that waypoint on the map where you want the person to jump to. Then in the on enter event of the trigger you select "TG_Ladder_OnEnter".