27 réponses à ce sujet

[ReallyRue]

I'd like to do it for variety's sake. And the fact that Carver's dialogue in Legacy seems different on the friendship path to the rivalry. I managed a playthrough where I got Carver's friendship almost to 100%, but I'm having a really hard time doing the opposite with Bethany, especially seeing as she gets an automatic +15 friendship just for completing the Birthright quest. So far, I've only been able to get her to the neutral mid-point.

These are the rivalry points I'm aware of (I looked it up on the Wiki too, but it's lacking some). Am I missing any?

-picking the diplomatic option when Merrill opens the path on Sundermount. (+5)
-at the end of Fenris' recruitment, telling him you "know the risks" when he questions associating with a mage. (+5)
-picking the aggressive options in the conversation with Bethany at Gamlen's house after the Birthright quest. (+10)
-sleeping with Jethann (+5)
-killing the Fereldens who confront you for asking about Anders (+5)
-telling Anders not to kill Karl (+5)
-refusing Petrice's quest (+5)
-telling Cullen to strip Keran's rank and agreeing when he says that mages are dangerous (+15)
-agreeing with Fenris about mages when first bringing him to the Gallows (+5)
-picking the aggressive options when talking to Arianni (+10)
-not taking her on the Deep Roads expedition (+10)
-siding with Janeka in Legacy (+5)

-Apparently, also picking diplomatic/humorous options when first meeting Wesley avoids a +5 friendship bonus, and not giving Bethany the painting gift avoids the friendship points from that (which you supposedly get no matter the dialogue choice).

[Knight of Dane]

Blackmailing Thrask?

[berelinde]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Blackmailing Thrask?

"Pay me or I'll expose you" gives you +5 rivalry
Send Kelder back to the Magistrate +5 rivalry
During the Wayward Son quest, tell Ariani "I will stop him" followed by "Don't hold your breath" +10 rivalry
During the Wayward Son quest, order Feynriel to return to the Circle +10 rivalry

[Fidget6]

I was actually just going to make a thread with the same title haha. I was wondering if some of the banter with Bethany in Legacy would be different if she was rivaled.

[Sir Edric]

No wonder it's harder for Bethany than the others, she's such a sunshine^^

[TobiTobsen]

Why would anybody rival Bethany? That's like... kicking puppys.

[Reznore57]

Is there a point to get 100% friend or rival with siblings?
Because they have no questionning belief quest , and no gameplay bonus as far as i can tell.

[berelinde]

Reznore57 wrote...

Is there a point to get 100% friend or rival with siblings?
Because they have no questionning belief quest , and no gameplay bonus as far as i can tell.

Kind of. There are rumors that middle-ground Bethany will attack you if you put her in the Circle and then side with the templars.  Also, the dialogue changes based on your sibling's affection/respect for you.

And about rivaling Bethany, why not? If you are running a character who opposes the things she values from a role-playing standpoint, rivalry will be the result. Some people (not me, but some people) cannot seem to grasp why anyone would support the mages in the first place. But that's alright. I have trouble understanding why people would support the templars.

Friendship/rivalry has little to do with actual affection for a character. I adore Carver, yet he almost always winds up somewhere on the rival spectrum because I like to play mages and I am sympathetic toward the cause of mage freedom.  I despise Bethany (not everyone likes bland personalities), but she usually winds up on the friendship side of things. Of course, since I usually play mages, I get the sibling I prefer, so it all works out in the end.

Oh, and for those of you who heard otherwise: once you get a sibling maxed at friendship or rivalry, you will stop getting friendship or rivalry points for them.

[Icy Magebane]

berelinde wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...

Is there a point to get 100% friend or rival with siblings?
Because they have no questionning belief quest , and no gameplay bonus as far as i can tell.

Kind of. There are rumors that middle-ground Bethany will attack you if you put her in the Circle and then side with the templars.

This is very interesting to me, but I think I'll look around the internet a bit before I try it... seems like it would take too long to do, and would be a big waste of time if it didn't work.  Still, thanks for the heads up.  I never thought this was in any way possible.

[berelinde]

Icy Magebane wrote...
This is very interesting to me, but I think I'll look around the internet a bit before I try it... seems like it would take too long to do, and would be a big waste of time if it didn't work.  Still, thanks for the heads up.  I never thought this was in any way possible.

I would never discourage anyone from doing research, and I would be curious to hear what you find out, but if you are playing on the PC, it doesn't have to be such a chore... if you send Bethany to the Circle. You can always save the game before the Last Straw, use the console to adjust Bethany's rivalry downward (set her at "rival"), and then play through Last Straw to see how it goes. If it doesn't go the way you want it to, just fire up your pre-Last Straw save and it's as if it never happened.

[Quething]

I think Beth's dialog is a bit buggy. She's always a bit short and snappish with you during the Qunari Crisis, as though Rivaled, and always sweet and sad with you in the Deep Roads with Nate, as though Friended; Carver, on the other hand, has relationship-consistent dialog when you meet up with him later. Given those inconsistencies, I imagine she's supposed to have path-dependent differences as well. Maybe I'll go play around in the talktables and see if I can find proof...

As far as Legacy goes, anyway, IDK; I've done a Rivaled Warden Beth and a Friended Circle Beth and they respond quite differently, but with no Friended Warden or Rivaled Circle to compare them to, I can't say if that's due entirely to their fates or not.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Quething wrote...

I think Beth's dialog is a bit buggy. She's always a bit short and snappish with you during the Qunari Crisis, as though Rivaled, and always sweet and sad with you in the Deep Roads with Nate, as though Friended; Carver, on the other hand, has relationship-consistent dialog when you meet up with him later. Given those inconsistencies, I imagine she's supposed to have path-dependent differences as well. Maybe I'll go play around in the talktables and see if I can find proof...

Huh.  I chalked it up to her (and everyone else in Kirkwall) having a really bad day.  Please let us know if you find anything. 

[CrimsonZephyr]

Quething wrote...

I think Beth's dialog is a bit buggy. She's always a bit short and snappish with you during the Qunari Crisis, as though Rivaled, and always sweet and sad with you in the Deep Roads with Nate, as though Friended; Carver, on the other hand, has relationship-consistent dialog when you meet up with him later. Given those inconsistencies, I imagine she's supposed to have path-dependent differences as well. Maybe I'll go play around in the talktables and see if I can find proof...

As far as Legacy goes, anyway, IDK; I've done a Rivaled Warden Beth and a Friended Circle Beth and they respond quite differently, but with no Friended Warden or Rivaled Circle to compare them to, I can't say if that's due entirely to their fates or not.

Well, her mother died recently, the Qunari were ruining everything, and the five mages around her had all been killed. I think it's fair to say you didn't catch her on a good day.

[Quething]

Wouldn't say it's a worse day than dying in the Deep Roads or getting mugged in her bed by blood mages and then waking up on the Wounded Coast with a knife over her face or watching her entire unit die after years cut off from her family and surrounded by darkspawn, though. I wouldn't begrudge her a little bitterness, but that doesn't mean it seems in-character, given how totally immune to it she seems elsewhere (at least on the Friendship path).

[Quething]

Huh. Well, it's hard to be sure without access to the actual cnv files, but just from the talktable it looks like y'all are right. Beth and Carver are both always supposed to be asses when you meet them during the Qunari crisis.

The Deep Roads dialog is harder to sort. It's spread out through the talktable, and I don't have a handy save I can use to check what gets called. It does look like she's supposed to be a bit tetchier when Rivalled, but some of that may be Carver dialog. I so wish they'd give us a toolset already...

[TobiTobsen]

Quething wrote...

Huh. Well, it's hard to be sure without access to the actual cnv files, but just from the talktable it looks like y'all are right. Beth and Carver are both always supposed to be asses when you meet them during the Qunari crisis.

Yup. They both **** at you if you meet them during the Qunari crisis, no matter their friendship/rivalry paths or the warden/cricle/templar route.
Especially "nice" for a Circle Bethany who ****es at you because of her fate after she explicitly told my Hawke to back down when he was totally willingly to kill Cullen right there and then when the Templars came for her.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 13 août 2011 - 12:52 .

[Quething]

I think she's supposed to be mad about Leandra, moreso than her Circle status.

I don't know how that translates to her being irritated at Hawke taking charge of the assault, though.

[Asch Lavigne]

I rivaled and friended everyone to see both sides and during one rival Bethany playthrough I sent her to the Wardens (my preferred choice) and when you meet up with her in Act 2 and talk about Leandra that scene made me feel so bad. I was like wow.... pout, pout, she really doesn't like me anymore.

I also rivaled her and sent her to the Mages but that didn't seem as interesting because it felt like she was in the game less on that path. Even when I sided with the Templars and let Meredith kill her it wasn't very interesting.

[Time4Tiddy]

I had Bethany at 100% friendship and left her behind during the Deep Roads. During both encounters in Act 2, she was friendly and even happy to see me. I never got a Bethany who was snappy or rude. I had read on the wiki that she "holds a grudge" if you send her to the Circle no matter if you are friend or rival, but in my playthrough it never seemed that way and there was no dialogue to suggest it. Is it possible it got patched?

[TobiTobsen]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

I had Bethany at 100% friendship and left her behind during the Deep Roads. During both encounters in Act 2, she was friendly and even happy to see me. I never got a Bethany who was snappy or rude. I had read on the wiki that she "holds a grudge" if you send her to the Circle no matter if you are friend or rival, but in my playthrough it never seemed that way and there was no dialogue to suggest it. Is it possible it got patched?

Just played that scenes a few days ago and Bethany is still a little bit rude, even as a circle mage. Do you play the game in english or a different language? Maybe the Voice Actors suck... at least the german ones do

[Xilizhra]

The wiki's off. She's not that unhappy to be in the Circle.

[TobiTobsen]

Xilizhra wrote...

The wiki's off. She's not that unhappy to be in the Circle.

She is not unhappy to be in the circle, but the few words she directs at Hawke when you meet her are not really friendly. It's not the same kind of rudeness she displayes as a warden but she still sounds kinda snappy. At least in my opinion.

[CrimsonZephyr]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The wiki's off. She's not that unhappy to be in the Circle.

She is not unhappy to be in the circle, but the few words she directs at Hawke when you meet her are not really friendly. It's not the same kind of rudeness she displayes as a warden but she still sounds kinda snappy. At least in my opinion.

Well, her mother just died and the mages around her just got slaughtered, so it's understandable that she's not as sunny as usual. She still isn't nearly as testy as her Warden self, or Templar!Carver.

[TobiTobsen]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The wiki's off. She's not that unhappy to be in the Circle.

She is not unhappy to be in the circle, but the few words she directs at Hawke when you meet her are not really friendly. It's not the same kind of rudeness she displayes as a warden but she still sounds kinda snappy. At least in my opinion.

Well, her mother just died and the mages around her just got slaughtered, so it's understandable that she's not as sunny as usual. She still isn't nearly as testy as her Warden self, or Templar!Carver.

Yup, I agree.