263 réponses à ce sujet

[London]

Retakng territories is just spreading what Dwarves there are even further apart, and I'm assuming this is only possible shortly after the blight ends while the deep roads are managable; even then I'm sure there continued to be some losses during the retakings. Spreading back accross more territory doesn't suddenly create a strong army. That's going to take more than the 7 years or so that have passed.

[dragonflight288]

But it also means the Darkspawn line is weakening.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Darkspawn do breed more quickly than Dwarves though.

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...Huh? I thought Asunder wasn't released for a while yet?

It was in the brief description that was given about it. Something's killing the Templars. That's all that's known really.

Still, something's killing the Templars. I'm dancing for joy.

[dragonflight288]

General Robert E. Lee defeated the Union Army in the American Civil War multiple times, despite being outnumbered. True, he lost the war, but the south did more damage to the northern army than the north did to the south.

[TEWR]

SebastianDA wrote...

Retakng territories is just spreading what Dwarves there are even further apart, and I'm assuming this is only possible shortly after the blight ends while the deep roads are managable; even then I'm sure there continued to be some losses during the retakings. Spreading back accross more territory doesn't suddenly create a strong army. That's going to take more than the 7 years or so that have passed.

Xanthos Aeducan, my Warden, would see to it that traps were put in place at each and every retaken Thaig. He would make an alliance with Kal-Sharok and ignore traditionalism, and try and push the Darkspawn line back using a two-pronged assault if possible (by the look of the map for Orzammar, it extends pretty far into Orlais. How far Kal-Sharok is from the Anvil I don't know).

He would also bring in Circle mages and Wardens, along with Fereldan soldiers and Golems.

The Darkspawn line would be decimated entirely. Then, using what notes there were from Amgarrak, the Golems would be improved.


This is all in my fanfic of course. Me and dragonflight think alike regarding Dwarves.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 04:46 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The North didn't outnumber the South anywhere near the same scale as the Darkspawn outnumber the Dwarves though. You may win a few battles, but if the war is lost, it will only ever be a footnote in history (though the Darkspawn probably don't keep a lot of records, in which case it would just be forgotten).

[London]

I still think if the Dwarves are preoccupied or not with retaking their territories and trying to keep everything fortified, the last thing they'd have an interest in is sacrificing even what few dwarves they'd have to spare over an issue of human politics. I just don't think they have the manpower available for casualties when the war above ground is not concerning them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I can't imagine most nations in the world are eager to jump into what promises to be a long and destructive conflict if it doesn't necessarily involve them. The Dalish might not be fond of templars but even if they were gone it wouldn't change their overall situation or their mutual antipathy towards humanity as a whole. If they make a point of protecting all the elf mages who flee to them, then maybe they'd become drawn in but I don't see them being all that willing to fight a major war that doesn't exactly directly relate to them much.

Since Nevarra is a Chantry country I don't see why their Circle would be fundamentally different from any of the other Andrastian nations. Being a political enemy of Orlais wouldn't mean they'd have radically different doctrine or practices. Ferelden was also an enemy of Orlais, and that has little to do with how they treat mages. I also don't know that Ferelden is ready to declare independence from the Chantry yet either. Just because Allister is sympathetic to escaped mages and Greigor is relatively lenient for a Knight-Commander doesn't mean that Ferelden is a "Pro-mage" country. The general populace never seemed any more fond of mages than anywhere else. Remember those gossips you found everywhere? But even if they did, what difference would that make? It's not the whole Chantry vs rebel mages, it's rebel templars vs rebel mages.

Rivain has a Circle of Magi and presumably some Chantry presence so I would suspect what happened to that circle would be the same as everywhere else. The Rivaini seers would probably only get involved if the renegade circle mages were given asylum or something. But again, I have to think they'd be reluctant to get involved in somebody else's conflict.

[Augustei]

Tevinter will not support the mages as Tevinters magisters wont want to bring any foreign mages into the imperium, seeing them as political competition. David Gaider said something about it a while back

David Gaider wrote...
There's also the fact that the Tevinter magisters don't particularly
like the idea of having foreign mages flooding into the Imperium and
possibly becoming competitors-- they're not sympathetic to the plight of
mages elsewhere. Remember that the magisters are at the top of the food
chain there. For them it's a matter of political power.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 09 août 2011 - 08:19 .

[dragonflight288]

Xanthos Aeducan, my Warden, would see to it that traps were put in place at each and every retaken Thaig. He would make an alliance with Kal-Sharok and ignore traditionalism, and try and push the Darkspawn line back using a two-pronged assault if possible (by the look of the map for Orzammar, it extends pretty far into Orlais. How far Kal-Sharok is from the Anvil I don't know).

The only problem with that is that Kal-Sharok still hates Orzammar and hasn't forgiven them for sealing them into the deep roads with the darkspawn. Not that I'm disagreeing, but playing politics there could take unnecessary time.

[Illydoor]

There is one faction we have forgotten to insert into the equation, the Seekers.

Apparently designed to watch over corruption in the Templars and the Chantry, the Divine's personal guard. Perhaps, they have been noticing corruption in the Chantry for years (the likes of lyrium smuggling and trade and such), and have in fact fabricated a mage war to help 'clean out the baddies'.

But now they've done it, maybe they've bit off more than they can chew?

If a war does start and the Templars have the advantage of numbers, I'd expect mages to run a guerilla war from the forests and the wilds that surround the outskirts of the cities. And who resides in these remote areas? The Dalish and the Chasind and the like. Whether they'd be a) willing to accomodate and harbour these mages and perhaps even join their cause, is debatable.

The Dalish have been waiting for their chance to overthrow Humans for years, they may see that helping the mages will lead to a better and more peaceful situation for them co-existing (and eventually usurping?). However, they also thought Andraste and her marches would solve this, and we all know how that turned out. But, I think revenge on the Chantry, who betrayed them, would be too much of an oppurtunity to pass up.

Modifié par Illydoor, 09 août 2011 - 01:20 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

Illydoor wrote...

There is one faction we have forgotten to insert into the equation, the Seekers.

Apparently designed to watch over corruption in the Templars and the Chantry, the Divine's personal guard. Perhaps, they have been noticing corruption in the Chantry for years (the likes of lyrium smuggling and trade and such), and have in fact fabricated a mage war to help 'clean out the baddies'.

But now they've done it, maybe they've bit off more than they can chew?

The Seekers didn't do a damn thing. They are ostensibly the Templars's IA division, but they adopted a wait and see approach when Meredith was obviously and totally losing her mind. When push came to shove, the Seekers didn't do their damn job. Cassandra had no idea what really happened, and she found Varric three years after Meredith died. That is the height of incompetence.

[TEWR]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Xanthos Aeducan, my Warden, would see to it that traps were put in place at each and every retaken Thaig. He would make an alliance with Kal-Sharok and ignore traditionalism, and try and push the Darkspawn line back using a two-pronged assault if possible (by the look of the map for Orzammar, it extends pretty far into Orlais. How far Kal-Sharok is from the Anvil I don't know).

The only problem with that is that Kal-Sharok still hates Orzammar and hasn't forgiven them for sealing them into the deep roads with the darkspawn. Not that I'm disagreeing, but playing politics there could take unnecessary time.

The animosity they have towards each other is due in large part to Orzammar being incredibly traditional. Xanthos Aeducan is prepared to risk angering the Ancestors if it means that the Dwarves can still live. Plus, he'll send a delegate to Kal-Sharok (that delegate being Renvil Harrowmont, who will still be attacked by Bhelen's Carta connections because Bhelen's a traitorous snob and Xanthos will end up having to kill him to keep things stable. There's more to the Bhelen-Xanthos king story then I'm giving here, so this isn't an issue of Xanthos being a weak king)

Luckily he has the blessing and favor of the Ancestors, specifically his late mother Rhea Aeducan

[TEWR]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Tevinter will not support the mages as Tevinters magisters wont want to bring any foreign mages into the imperium, seeing them as political competition. David Gaider said something about it a while back

David Gaider wrote...
There's also the fact that the Tevinter magisters don't particularly
like the idea of having foreign mages flooding into the Imperium and
possibly becoming competitors-- they're not sympathetic to the plight of
mages elsewhere. Remember that the magisters are at the top of the food
chain there. For them it's a matter of political power.

This goes along with me saying they'll be indirect allies at best by defending themselves from the Rogue Templars if need be.

[Rifneno]

DPSSOC wrote...

More demand for what they supply? Lyrium is useful to mages but Templars (current Templars anyway) need the stuff. You can sell a bottle of water for a lot more to a man dying of thirst than you can someone who's merely thirsty. Obviously with limitations you are dealing with armed fanatics so you can't gouge them too hard. Also properly manouvered Orzamar could end up placing itself in the Chantry's old position (controlling Templars by virtue of being their only dealer).

That's true... but I think getting a an extremely powerful new weapon in their constant war on the darkspawn would be considerably more valuable to them than some gold.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ah, okay.. Well, I can't really argue against that, but lets at least keep to the common ground, and debate using what is established in the universal lore.

Like the fact that mages are even more powerful against darkspawn than they are against sentient because darkspawn are a mindless zerg. Or the fact that "The dwarves sell very little of the processed mineral to the surface, giving the greater portion of what they mine to their own smiths, who use it in the forging of all truly superior dwarven weapons and armor." Meaning their economy isn't exactly going to collapse without the Chantry, and it's entirely possible that the only reason they do trade with the Chantry is so the Chantry won't try the religious conquest villain move.

SebastianDA wrote...

I don't see Orzammar being key in this war; they are having enough of their own survival problems with having less and less dwarves by the year as the darkspawn continue to claim victims faster than they can repopulate; they are already mourning being under-staffed and being preoccupied with keeping the darkspawn out of what little space they have left. Interceding in a brutal war is not to their advantage in any wya.

It's like I'm the only one that remembers Duncan talking about how awesome people with big AE damage are against... was it nugs? No, that's not right. Kossith transvestites? No... oh wait, I remember! It's darkspawn, those things that are the cause of all the problems you just mentioned!

Interceding doesn't mean sending out all their warriors to fight. All they have to do is close up shop. All they have to do is not provide a product.

dragonflight288 wrote...

Unless Bhelen is on the throne. Then they are retaking territories because he isn't sticking to suicidal traditions.

THANK YOU! FINALLY, someone gets it!

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It was in the brief description that was given about it. Something's killing the Templars. That's all that's known really.

Still, something's killing the Templars. I'm dancing for joy.

Excellent, my cover hasn't been blown.

[TEWR]

not to mention Mages are a good source of income themselves. Formari enchantments and all that. Look at how well Solivitus, a non-Tranquil mage, does.

[Ryzaki]

Solivitus sells enchantements (if he even sells them) that the tranquil make. Only tranquil can make enchantments.(them and Sandal anyway).  

And chances are the tranquil are going to be on the Chantry's side. So that income is not on the mages side.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[TEWR]

Formari goods aren't just enchantments. Look at Unara's tooth. That was made from a high dragon fire gland.

[Rifneno]

I think a lot of people are capable of making enchantments. Ambassador Cera certainly wasn't a tranquil. That said, I think the dwarves are already the best in this regard. The reason tranquils are so good at enchantments is because of their insensitivity to lyrium, having been cut off from the Fade. Dwarves are also insensitive to lyrium, so they can do it as well while still having a soul. This is actually why dwarves keep the great majority of the lyrium they mine: their own stuff.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Formari goods aren't just enchantments. Look at Unara's tooth. That was made from a high dragon fire gland.

!!!  HATE!  Thinking about that thing still makes me want to punch a blind orphan!  +1 stats necklace, from the optional megahard boss (pre-Legacy)?  If you have the class item packs, the necklaces that companions get for free at the start of Act I make the dragon's tooth necklace look like garbage.  NERDRAGING HARD HERE!

[Erani]

@Ryz, That's true,

But is is possible that when the Circles broke free, some of the mages took their tranquil friends with them or the tranquil, having some sort of survival instinct, realized that they were also in danger of being mistaken for a mage what with all the confusion and revolting and killed by the Templars. After all, Owain was smart enough to stay away from the abominations.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Formari goods aren't just enchantments. Look at Unara's tooth. That was made from a high dragon fire gland.

Ah 

@Riferno: There's a conversation about how Sandal is special because he's a dwarf that can make enchantments and I recall a conversation at Ostagar with a tranquil mage who said they were the best ones for making enchantments. I don't think normal mages can do it Dwarves mine lyrium (which is dangerous) and they're the best at that. They don't make enchantmnts though. 

@Erani: I doubt it. The tranquil have strict orders that they follow to the letter. I'm fairly certain they were told what to do in the case of a RoA or revolt. (which most likely was to stay where they were). 

When Wynne tries to get Owain to leave he refuses. 

Not to mention I don't think tranquil mages are killed in a RoA. There's no reason to kill them. They're connection with the Fade is severed. They're no threat. That was the whole point in making them tranquil in the first place. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 août 2011 - 05:08 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I suspect that most tranquil will pick the side they think is most likley to win.

[Erani]

@Ryz: But Owain was "safe" where he was so he had no reason to go anywhere else considering that the stockroom was his comfort zone, so to speak. What I meant was the there's a chance that when the fighting was going on, some of the tranquil got scared and ran away and eventually joined up with apostates and Templar supporters for protection.