263 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

She said she was tasked to investigate Darkspawn in the ceremony, which is still a canon part of the game (which is why the boon carries over to DA2).


http://www.youtube.c...0ztms0VA#t=487s

It doesn't appear in the epilogue slides. It appears in the game itself.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She said she was tasked to investigate Darkspawn in the ceremony, which is still a canon part of the game (which is why the boon carries over to DA2).


http://www.youtube.c...0ztms0VA#t=487s

It doesn't appear in the epilogue slides. It appears in the game itself.

Except there's nothing in DA2 that plays a part in that. No mention no thing. 

Like...it didn't happen! 

[TEWR]

Gee, maybe the reason why she doesn't mention that in DA2 to Hawke is because Hawke has no affiliation with the Darkspawn and she has only a 2 minute cameo, and it wasn't the most important detail!

That doesn't mean it isn't part of the canon though! It doesn't have to be mentioned in DA2 for it to be canon if it was already mentioned in the game itself.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gee, maybe the reason why she doesn't mention that in DA2 to Hawke is because Hawke has no affiliation with the Darkspawn and she has only a 2 minute cameo, and it wasn't the most important detail!

That doesn't mean it isn't part of the canon though! It doesn't have to be mentioned in DA2 for it to be canon if it was already mentioned in the game itself.

Yet she can bother mentioning the Warden?  Oi whatever. The point that Dagna's circle can't always exist is already made. 

[TEWR]

she doesn't bring up the Warden. Hawke does when he asks her a question

"The Leliana? Who accompanied the Hero of Ferelden to slay the Archdemon?"

"Ah, I see it will be harder for me to remain anonymous so near the Fereldan border. Yes, I traveled with the Hero of Ferelden. He is a good friend/He is dear to me."

If you expected her to go into a long rant about how her travels with the Warden and encounters with Darkspawn when Hawke asked her a question that was "Wait... you traveled with the Warden right?", then I'm baffled.

[LobselVith8]

@Ryzaki, it isn't odd if the Magi boon happened, before the writers decided to change that. It doesn't seem that the creators planned for the Chantry to say no, given how Irving responded to The Warden as though it was given that it already happened and the lack of the independent Circle of Orzammar.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

she doesn't bring up the Warden. Hawke does when he asks her a question

"The Leliana? Who accompanied the Hero of Ferelden to slay the Archdemon?"

"Ah, I see it will be harder for me to remain anonymous so near the Fereldan border. Yes, I traveled with the Hero of Ferelden. He is a good friend/He is dear to me."

If you expected her to go into a long rant about how her travels with the Warden and encounters with Darkspawn when Hawke asked her a question that was "Wait... you traveled with the Warden right?", then I'm baffled.

You're right. 

That oesn't change the fact that there's no circle in Orzammar and Dagna doesn't study with the circle unless the Warden helps her though.  

LobselVith8 wrote...

@Ryzaki, it isn't odd if the Magi boon happened, before the writers decided to change that. It doesn't seem that the creators planned for the Chantry to say no, given how Irving responded to The Warden as though it was given that it already happened and the lack of the independent Circle of Orzammar.

 


Point.  

[LobselVith8]

I'm surprised a Ferelden with the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle of Magi or with an independent Circle of Orzammar weren't considered for an apostate Hawke or a Hawke with Bethany. Surely, it would be safer than remaining at the seat if power for the templars in eastern Thedas.

[Ryzaki]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm surprised a Ferelden with the Hero of Ferelden from the Circle of Magi or with an independent Circle of Orzammar weren't considered for an apostate Hawke or a Hawke with Bethany. Surely, it would be safer than remaining at the seat if power for the templars in eastern Thedas.

That would require common sense and logic. 

You know Hawke doesn't have that. 

[Erani]

Well, even if the Circle of Orzammar is only found in the epilogue, it hasn't been contradicted yet. Yes, I know the slides are only rumors but it's a very big thing to make up. Maybe the dwarves decided to close it later on or something else happened but there must be some truth to it.

[TEWR]

Well, even if Gregoir refuses, I still maintain that the Warden had nothing to do with Irving being open (there's an option to say to Irving "I think she's being silly" regarding Dagna, so I'll see where that one leads. If he says that she can't study, then I was wrong. But if he still says "she can study", then the Warden had absolutely nothing to do with him accepting Dagna).

And besides, if Bioware wanted to, they could make it so that Gregoir changed his mind after much arguing with a new First Enchanter that earned his respect (if someone Annulled the Circle).

I truly do think that Orzammar will be key for the Mages, since both Brother Burkel's death or the establishment of a Circle (depending on which epilogue you got. Though I assume if you did both quests that Brother Burkel's death leads to the Chantry being removed from Orzammar and the Circle falling under Orzammar jurisdiction) made the Divine consider calling an Exalted March on them. I would hope Bioware would take advantage of those epilogue slides for this Mage-Templar War, especially if Bhelen's on the throne.

[Sepewrath]

Ryzaki wrote...
That would require common sense and logic. 

You know Hawke doesn't have that. 

That would also require it to be canon, which its not.

LadyJaneGrey wrote...
Hubby was playing in the Origins' secret
proving fights earlier today, and one of the combatants is labeled
quite clearly as an arcane warrior.  Kind of odd.

Wasn't the mage with the cult also an Arcane Warrior, the one you get the Spellweaver from.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, even if Gregoir refuses, I still maintain that the Warden had nothing to do with Irving being open (there's an option to say to Irving "I think she's being silly" regarding Dagna, so I'll see where that one leads. If he says that she can't study, then I was wrong. But if he still says "she can study", then the Warden had absolutely nothing to do with him accepting Dagna).

And besides, if Bioware wanted to, they could make it so that Gregoir changed his mind after much arguing with a new First Enchanter that earned his respect (if someone Annulled the Circle).

I truly do think that Orzammar will be key for the Mages, since both Brother Burkel's death or the establishment of a Circle (depending on which epilogue you got. Though I assume if you did both quests that Brother Burkel's death leads to the Chantry being removed from Orzammar and the Circle falling under Orzammar jurisdiction) made the Divine consider calling an Exalted March on them. I would hope Bioware would take advantage of those epilogue slides for this Mage-Templar War, especially if Bhelen's on the throne.

No he still let's her if you say she's being silly. 

Why would Gregoir bring it up to the new First Enchanter? He's dismissed the idea and is going to have much tighter reigns on the circle he's not going to let some new first enchanter have too much power. That's what lead to the first incident. The mages having too much power. 

I doubt it. Orzammar is too cutthroat to give a damn about mage rights. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I have to agree. They never seemed that fond of foreign influences. Even with Bhelen as king, they aren't pleased with a Chantry opening up in Orzammar.  A new mage tower may provide new benefits but If a mage tower became a stronghold of apostates and blood mages they I would imagine the dwarven rulers would begin to consider them more trouble than they are worth.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 09 août 2011 - 11:34 .

[TEWR]

Ah. Well then the Warden had absolutely nothing to do with Irving accepting Dagna.


I dunno. Maybe Dagna sends the Circle letters. Maybe she just shows up there one day in front of the Knight Commander and new First Enchanter and Gregoir goes "Oh no not you again..."

And what led to the mage rebellion had nothing to do with the First Enchanter. It had to do with Uldred, a senior Enchanter, who was described to be "too good at rooting out blood mages". Uldred wasn't exactly friendly with many of the mages.

And Orzammar would benefit greatly from helping the mages. Bhelen (and Xanthos Aeducan =P) would see that. Maybe have Bhelen side with the mages and Harrowmont either remain neutral or side with the Templars because he's weak and doesn't want to risk angering the Chantry.

Dwarven Berserkers are able to harness their rage until they slay all of their foes, so that could help the mages. Who knows how many dwarves there are. Thousands definitely. Maybe tens of thousands.

Poing being Bhelen pisses on risk. Harrowmont tries to appease it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dwarves are kind of still slowly being driven towards extinction by an endless unwinnable millennium long war with the darkspawn. Even if they regain some territory under Bhelen, that fact is still the defining inescapable fact of their existence, the very last thing they need to get involved in is a costly and messy surface war.

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dwarves are kind of still slowly being driven towards extinction by an endless unwinnable millennium long war with the darkspawn. Even if they regain some territory under Bhelen, that fact is still the defining inescapable fact of their existence, the very last thing they need to get involved in is a costly and messy surface war.

I can't get over how everyone that says the dwarves wouldn't want to get involved (under Bhelen anyway) chooses to ignore the fact that a) mages are an incredibly asset when fighting mindless hordes of darkspawn, all the dwarves need to do to beat the templars is shut their gate for a week and wait for them to go into withdrawal of the substance they're totally reliant on dwarven miners for.

[TEWR]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dwarves are kind of still slowly being driven towards extinction by an endless unwinnable millennium long war with the darkspawn. Even if they regain some territory under Bhelen, that fact is still the defining inescapable fact of their existence, the very last thing they need to get involved in is a costly and messy surface war.

Considering the Architect and his Disciples keep to their word and retreat into the Deep Roads and become allies of the Wardens, I doubt they're attacking the dwarves that much.

And surface Dwarves apparently have the same amount of numbers as the Dwarves in Orzammar, plus we don't know if there are any Dwarves in Qunari territory. If there are, I doubt they're as near extinction as one would think

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Considering the Architect and his Disciples keep to their word and retreat into the Deep Roads and become allies of the Wardens, I doubt they're attacking the dwarves that much.

And surface Dwarves apparently have the same amount of numbers as the Dwarves in Orzammar, plus we don't know if there are any Dwarves in Qunari territory. If there are, I doubt they're as near extinction as one would think

The Architect is not an ally of the Wardens. If he were Nathaniel would have said so, but he spoke of the awakened darkspawn by saying "fortuantely their numbers are few." Even if the Architect did keep his word though, he isn't really capable of controlling the whole of the darkspawn mutlittude. Plus he might simply be dead and allowed the darkspawn to run rampant in the deep roads again.

The surface dwarves are much fewer in number than underground dwarves but I think Gorim only puts their numbers in the hundreds anyway.

Most people who talk about the war with the darkspawn in Orzammar seem to have a decidedly pessemistic outlook. Someone mentioned that more warriors are being killed by the darkspawn than there are children to replace them. Duncan even mentions to the Dwarf Noble that now the dwarves are much fewer in number than they were in ages past.

Rifneno wrote...

I can't get over how everyone that says
the dwarves wouldn't want to get involved (under Bhelen anyway) chooses
to ignore the fact that a) mages are an incredibly asset when fighting
mindless hordes of darkspawn, all the dwarves need to do to beat the
templars is shut their gate for a week and wait for them to go into
withdrawal of the substance they're totally reliant on dwarven miners
for.

Magic may be useful against the darkspawn but I don't know that they'd think making enemies on the surface would be worth the trouble. It's their only lifeline. And ending the threat the templars would pose would not be as simple as closing their gates. Since they rebelled against the Chantry, the templars would be cut off from lyrium anyway, so that might not even end up being an issue.

[TEWR]

The Architect is not an ally of the Wardens. If he were Nathaniel would have said so, but he spoke of the awakened darkspawn by saying "fortuantely their numbers are few." Even if the Architect did keep his word though, he isn't really capable of controlling the whole of the darkspawn mutlittude. Plus he might simply be dead and allowed the darkspawn to run rampant in the deep roads again.

Darkspawn don't die of age. The taint sustains them and makes them immortal. They can die in battle, but they can't die due to the passage of time.

And the Disciples are under the Architect, so he and his followers are allies of the Wardens. Even though he may not be able to control all of the mindless ones, he can certainly convince the sentient ones to try and live a life of peace.

...so long as he doesn't awaken another insane broodmother.

The surface dwarves are much fewer in number than underground dwarves but I think Gorim only puts their numbers in the hundreds anyway.

The dwarves are a dwindling race, their exiled surface-kin threatening to match their numbers, if the projections of their scholars are correct. They are under a state of constant war, and judging from my warrior-caste friend, this serves as a backdrop for all that they do. Dwarves have few children, and so priceless sons and daughters are sent into battle day after day against the darkspawn, but it is a price that is paid both at the behest of their noble lords and out of a desire for a glorious death.

http://dragonage.wik...The_Endless_War

Most people who talk about the war with the darkspawn in Orzammar seem to have a decidedly pessemistic outlook. Someone mentioned that more warriors are being killed by the darkspawn than there are children to replace them. Duncan even mentions to the Dwarf Noble that now the dwarves are much fewer in number than they were in ages past.

Well if their numbers are dwindling because of the Darkspawn, then that's more of a reason for them to help the mages.



edit: and the dwarves have lyrium explosives now, thanks to Dworkin. Lyrium explosives, ways to improve their golems (even if you destroy the Anvil, Orzammar still has some golems as Shaper Czibor says), dwarven warriors, and if they help the mages then they have mages.

Mages who can heal flesh, toss fireballs at Darkspawn, strengthen their allies, etc.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 août 2011 - 12:35 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

"The Architect was the first of the speaking and thinking darkspawn. Very dangerous. He spread his "gift" to other darkspawn, the disciples. Fortunately their numbers are few" is what Nathaniel says about the Architect. That doesn't sound like they are the allies he mentioned.

If the surface dwarves threaten to outnumber the Orzammar dwarves that speaks even worse for Orzammar because I'm pretty sure Gorim says that he's heard that "Over 500" dwarves have fled to the surface. That'd mean the underground dwarves are probably less than 1000.

[TEWR]

 stupid computer decided to lag into oblivion and make a double post....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[TEWR]

I think Gorim meant 500 dwarves have fled to the surface in terms of that year. Because you can clearly see that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Dwarves marching to fight the Blight.