Aller au contenu

Photo

Love scenes


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
192 réponses à ce sujet

#51
Sutekh

Sutekh
  • Members
  • 1 089 messages

casadechrisso wrote...

Well it's not only the act that was not believable IMO, it was the whole fastfood-romance. Maybe I'm too old and kids these days go faster from first kiss to moving in, but I thought the whole thing was rather anti-climatic, skin or not:

Romance initiation (advanced RPers only): click heart symbol during conversation 3 times (Hint: Heart! Not Jester, doh! Noo, not the broken heart!). Listen to Hawke's lines, you really should try those out in the pub too next time... >_<
Then it goes like...

Merrill: Hi Hawke, this is totally awkward but...
Hawke: (generic ****** line)
*kiss*
*shag*
"move in with me!" - "Ya, sure".

... done.

Excuse me when I say there was zero romance, zero erotic and zero butterflies in that whole game. ME1 was in my opinion the most mature (and still very naive and child-safe) love scene Bioware made, but after that ridiculous FOX "scandal" (they apparently never even looked at the scene) they chickened out instead of keeping that classier standard.


Too bad you lived it like that. I didn't, so I guess it's just a matter of perception, right?

re: the heart. It indeed is cheesy, but on the other hand, it makes sure the player knows what they're doing. There have been so many complaints about Leliana ninjamancing (and sometimes even Morrigan. I know, it happened to me three times) that the heart is one solution for disambiguation.

There are still complaints about "Fenris jumped my Hawke" (which he never does), so I'd say that the heart is not even enough, apparently.

Also, going fast? Three years isn't that fast to me. If anything it's damn slow, considering.

What makes the romance feel so hollow is the lack of interaction. Some flirt lines, one love scene, a couple others and that's it.

As for love scenes themselves, I absolutely don't care. Fade to black, show some flesh or don't, as long as it's well done, relevant, and isn't either too prude or trying too hard to be "mature", I'm good. Oh, and if there's nudity, it better be on equal ground for male and female characters.

Modifié par Sutekh, 09 août 2011 - 10:42 .


#52
Drone696

Drone696
  • Members
  • 1 319 messages
I think it's not the romance scenes per se why some of you think there was "zero romance, zero erotic".

I romanced (what a stupid word) all LIs in different playthroughs and I have to say the Anders romance was simply the best written and executed (can you say that?). Merrill has almost the same scene in the Hawke Estate as Anders, but the whole romance with her felt a bit shallow; the same with Fenris.

In the end it's purely a matter of taste, I guess.

#53
Savber100

Savber100
  • Members
  • 3 049 messages
*glances at Witcher 2 *

Minus the explicit nudity, I found that CDPR got those scenes right.

gamer_girl wrote...

I dunno that BW wants that kind of negative publicity again - no matter how many other games have worse sex scenes, and no matter who it was that brought the negative spotlight upon them.


There's no such thing as NEGATIVE publicity in a business. ;)

#54
Cyne

Cyne
  • Members
  • 872 messages
The love scenes in DA:O may have been a little awkward, but they were still better than DA2's tame and highly censored versions. Those seemed to mock DA2's audience as being too juvenile to view real intimacy.

Modifié par Cyne, 09 août 2011 - 10:58 .


#55
Sinaxi

Sinaxi
  • Members
  • 527 messages
I preferred DA2s romance scenes to DA:O's...but only because I felt like they were more "character" centered. Like the romance scenes in DA:O had no personality to them, and also that music...my god...>.< As far as censor-wise yeah there could have been way more shown in DA2's romance scenes...instead it was the whole character entrance and then..."now they are on the bed, and fade to black". But, eh.

The ME1 scenes were tasteful and more on line with how DA:O's romance scenes were - but I thought that the ME1 scenes were also very generic...mostly face shots and then I think the full body outline or whatever. I still prefer the different vibes to each romance scene in DA2 since it reflected upon how their characters actually acted, though I still think they could have been improved upon when it came time to show the actual romance part lol...and if that part ended up being a ME1 style kind of thing it would work out fine I think.

The romance scene that honestly sort of bothered me, because I felt it got favoritism was that Miranda scene with Shephard in ME2. None of the other romance scenes in ME/DA I felt were that graphic (and I say graphic for lack of a better term, not because I think the scene was like "graphic! oh noes!") After seeing that scene, I was like..."Uh?? Why aren't the other romance scenes in ME2 and DA2 on par with this?"

If we want to get into the heart and flirt stuff, that would be a whole different story since overall I felt like DA2 didn't let you devote enough time to relationships. (despite the fact that it takes course over 3 years) It was, flirt in Act 1, make sure to bang them in Act 2, and then Act 3 it was over. I just felt like there wasn't much interaction between the characters in general, so when you pursue a romance with one it feels like there is twice as less interaction than normal. DA3 definitely needs more interaction, on par with the amount of random conversations we could have with DA:O companions about their lives and their views etc.

#56
Alex Kershaw

Alex Kershaw
  • Members
  • 921 messages
The Witcher 2 showed how it's done in this area, but it's just a tiny addition to the game rather than a selling point in my opinion...

#57
Guest_Recon64bit_*

Guest_Recon64bit_*
  • Guests
 M = ages 17 and up.

#58
Time4Tiddy

Time4Tiddy
  • Members
  • 466 messages

casadechrisso wrote...

Mass Effect 1's "scandal scene" had no VO either, is tame but a hundred times more believable than DA2's.

Reminder


Yes.  The parallel romantic scenes with Kaidan are forever my standard for gaming romance.  It felt so real, so intense, without having to show T&A or full penetration.  Personally I'm fine with fully clothed if it's sexy or suggestive or sensual.  Like hands brushing or lingering glances or teasing comments, other little things that would have been easy to add into cutscenes if you are currently in a romance.  

Above all, I need to buy into it.  I actually really liked when Fenris surprises you at home and rushes you.  Very passionate, very believable.  Not so believable - the fact that he's wearing his armor when he gets out of your bed...

The last thing I will say, they pretty much felt forced to add the heart (and broken heart) to the dialogue wheel after so many "straight" male gamers complained about "accidentally" having sex with Zevran.  Even so, they still complain that Anders "comes on" to you even if you don't romance him.  I'm assuming this is a reference to when he tells you that he was in a relationship with Karl.  You know gays, if they tell you they have been with a man before, that means they are hitting on you!  Throwing their sexuality in your face!  Forcing you to click the heart!!

#59
afhdjs

afhdjs
  • Members
  • 181 messages
I wish they can have something like the elven bath scene in TW2. That is like the perfect sex scene, playful, erotic, sensual and funny.

#60
casadechrisso

casadechrisso
  • Members
  • 726 messages

Sutekh wrote...

re: the heart. It indeed is cheesy, but on the other hand, it makes sure the player knows what they're doing. There have been so many complaints about Leliana ninjamancing (and sometimes even Morrigan. I know, it happened to me three times) that the heart is one solution for disambiguation.

There are still complaints about "Fenris jumped my Hawke" (which he never does), so I'd say that the heart is not even enough, apparently.


And that's where I hate Bioware for listening to the strangest suggestions, but not to the good ones, and those complains were very id... *cough*... strange IMO.

What makes a flirt/romance realistic is the element of surprise after all, if you go into a disco you can't control who hits on you and who doesn't, can you? So let them hit on you and turn them down, which I can safely say is very much possible in DA:O - after playing the game 8 times I've seen the "I think we should just be friends" line often enough, or the milder "turndowns". If you read the replies carefully, you know what to do.
Anders in DA2 though... I just thought "what, my Hawke just talks to you the first time and already needs the broken heart?"

Anyway, I think it's just realistic that sometimes you have to turn someone down or get into an awkward situation, and that element of surprise was what I really liked in DA:O.

Sutekh wrote...

Also, going fast? Three years isn't that fast to me. If anything it's damn slow, considering.

What makes the romance feel so hollow is the lack of interaction. Some flirt lines, one love scene, a couple others and that's it.


What I meant was the 2nd part, and after some initial flirting the first kiss/sex/moving in is all stuffed into one and the same cutscene, one night. Not to mention that the game might tell you it's been 3 years, but it feels like a week for the player.

Sutekh wrote...

Oh, and if there's nudity, it better be on equal ground for male and female characters.



Natcherlee.

#61
FieryDove

FieryDove
  • Members
  • 2 632 messages

Time4Tiddy wrote...

The last thing I will say, they pretty much felt forced to add the heart (and broken heart) to the dialogue wheel after so many "straight" male gamers complained about "accidentally" having sex with Zevran.  Even so, they still complain that Anders "comes on" to you even if you don't romance him.  I'm assuming this is a reference to when he tells you that he was in a relationship with Karl.  You know gays, if they tell you they have been with a man before, that means they are hitting on you!  Throwing their sexuality in your face!  Forcing you to click the heart!!


If you are diplomatic with Anders in the second talk you have with him, he flirts with Hawke male or female. No hearts involved. Doesn't bother me, its nice one of them say something first but not everyone likes that. You can turn him down (broken heart) and get some rivalry. Its nothing to lose sleep over, friendship/rivalry is easy to get in this game.

#62
Atakuma

Atakuma
  • Members
  • 5 609 messages
I don't really mind the fade to black, I think they just need to remove some clothing beforehand to really sell it. Also, I think they need to improve the animations because the looked like puppets half the time.

#63
craigdolphin

craigdolphin
  • Members
  • 587 messages
Personally, I think the best implementation of this to-date is in TW2. The approach used in Mass Effect 1 was the best of breed for Bioware and, sadly, it has all gone downhill from there.

#64
Guest_Recon64bit_*

Guest_Recon64bit_*
  • Guests

craigdolphin wrote...

Personally, I think the best implementation of this to-date is in TW2. The approach used in Mass Effect 1 was the best of breed for Bioware and, sadly, it has all gone downhill from there.


Does anyone else think the protagonist for TW2 looks like Fenris and Anders combined?:alien:

#65
Uccio

Uccio
  • Members
  • 4 696 messages
^Nope, Fenris is a anime character in my books. TW2 characters look more "real".

#66
Xayoz

Xayoz
  • Members
  • 122 messages

Alex Kershaw wrote...

The Witcher 2 showed how it's done in this area, but it's just a tiny addition to the game rather than a selling point in my opinion...

This.

DA2 romance mostly made me feel awkward.
Only good bits where the one with Isabella and the kiss with Merril in the end.

#67
Chibi020

Chibi020
  • Members
  • 27 messages
I don't see how Fenris looks like an anime character...holding a picture of an anime character on my left...and one of Fenris on the right...I can't pull together a single similarity....this is especially so as I spend a lot of my time re-drawing Manwha (Korean version of Manga) to the point I see it when I sleep. Big eyes maybe?

What I'd have liked is more violence (yes violence haha) between the characters. I expected Fenris to come and pick up Hawke by the throat and get seriously angry about letting him kill his sister/not letting him kill his sister...where Hawke chooses to fight back or remain cool and that'd initiate some sort of awkward love moment where Fenris feels so alone that?...I'd expected Merrill to break down and be on the edge of sanity after witnessing her clan die where Hawke steps in and tells her to grow up/comfort her...maybe Anders to get super angry and start smashing things around after witnessing a friend/mage be turned into an apostate and Hawke interferes by throttling Justice away...

Of course this all depends on what time you romance the character etc etc ...but the point I'm trying to make is, I'd like the characters to be more human and to get crazy angry or crazy sad...and for Hawke to really understand/get to know them..and for romance to be annoying/in the way..a desperate try to cling to the shred of sanity some of these characters have left. I'm amazed how sane these people are judging by what's happenned...and if it's one thing I know about fans of something, they looooove insane characters...the mysterious man that no one understands (swishes cloak over shoulder) but you, you know why he's the way he is and can "tame him"...the girl that everyone wants to be with but she's so cold/messed up that she lets no one in but you...

but...

Really, all the romance scenes needed to be are longer ¬¬;; Just like legacy, lots of clip scenes and a very long one with lots of choices when/if the two characters decide to become an item.

I understand if people don't agree with me, i'm definitely the product of Asian psychotic gaming/films/literature where you watch people awkwardly go through life/events whilst falling in love in a very haphazard fashion. It's just more touching at the end when you see how crazy people actually manage to hold a relationship together having gone through so much.

#68
alex90c

alex90c
  • Members
  • 3 175 messages
All Bioware need to do is go back to Mass Effect 1-esque love scenes. Honesty, I'd heard how good they were so many times, but it's only when you actually see it for yourself that you realise how well done it was, and simply how it's better than DA:O's awkward humping and DA2's fully clothed .... whatever.

If there's one thing Mass Effect has up on Dragon Age, it has to be the quantity of animations available. I mean, ME2's library must be huge whereas DA tends to use the same ones again

and again

and again

and again

and again

Companion X expresses their undying love for you while flailing their hands about.

Random NPC Y asks you to fetch their kitten while flailing their hands about in the same way.

Meh.

#69
JediHealerCosmin

JediHealerCosmin
  • Members
  • 2 289 messages
The best BioWare game to handle romance in both development and love scene was Mass Effect 1.

DAO and ME2 were great on development, they both had a nice romantic feel but the love scenes were somewhat weak.

DA2 was just freaking hilarious on both fronts. All four romances had me laughing Image IPB  (that's a bad thing btw)

#70
Chewin

Chewin
  • Members
  • 8 478 messages

craigdolphin wrote...

Personally, I think the best implementation of this to-date is in TW2. The approach used in Mass Effect 1 was the best of breed for Bioware and, sadly, it has all gone downhill from there.


I rather not see The Witcher's romance scenes in either DA or ME.

#71
Prince_12

Prince_12
  • Members
  • 83 messages

Chewin3 wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...

Personally, I think the best implementation of this to-date is in TW2. The approach used in Mass Effect 1 was the best of breed for Bioware and, sadly, it has all gone downhill from there.


I rather not see The Witcher's romance scenes in either DA or ME.


Agreed.

#72
Fiery Knight

Fiery Knight
  • Members
  • 656 messages

Chewin3 wrote...

craigdolphin wrote...

Personally, I think the best implementation of this to-date is in TW2. The approach used in Mass Effect 1 was the best of breed for Bioware and, sadly, it has all gone downhill from there.


I rather not see The Witcher's romance scenes in either DA or ME.


I rather watch p0rn than the witcher romance scenes. It felt wrong even looking at it:sick:

#73
AloraKast

AloraKast
  • Members
  • 288 messages
You know, what I would REALLY love to see is for Bioware to come out of the protective shell they erected after the whole "Fox News scandal", to stop apologizing, to stop treating this subject so delicately as if affraid any step forward will cause the whole thing to blow up in their faces. It's getting rather tiring to have to experience this aspect of the game with the child-proof protective rubber gloves... with the end result being rather awkward, especially when trying to form bonds with your companions (or LI in this case).

IMO, Mass Effect handled this perfectly; the scene was beautiful, sensual, magical, you really got to experience that connection with your LI in a sincere and intense way (of course with the "night before the final showdown" aspect only adding to the intense focus on that one moment, the here and now and thus experiencing it even more powerfully). The camera angles, the lighting, the music, the atmosphere all came together splendidly to create a rather intense and magical moment in the game... and it wasn't merely about showing a side of a boob, because merely showing that without all those other elements could not possibly evoke those kinds of feelings in me, the player. But I absolutely loved how the developers weren't affraid to tackle that particular can of worms in a mature manner, with no apologies and uninhibited creative vision were able to create something trully superb. All those elements came together to create a beautifully poignant symphony and I truly believe and hope that Bioware will be allowed to strive towards that once again.

You know, the scenes in DA:O were actually closer to what I experienced in Mass Effect; the camera angles, the camp atmosphere and of course that brilliant and touching music. And there was something about the camp atmosphere, the fire, being on the road or in the woods or wherever we found ourselves... I guess out there surrounded by nature in the middle of the night with the moon riding the night sky. Again, the atmosphere was wonderful and the experience was beautiful, although it was already tempered by the inhibitions imposed by Bioware's past experience.

As for DA2... well, I didn't really get much of that beautiful, magical bonding. It was more along the lines of awkward or feeling not much of anything. Heck, my dialogue with Fenris just before the final confrontation and his possessive kiss did way more to curl my toes than my nocturnal activites with him as presented. Even the camera movements came across as more stiff in capturing the whole make out scene just before fading to black. I could really sense the infelxible boundaries imposed on this aspect in DA2.

As for all those age old arguments against dealing with sexuality in an open and mature mannger in a game... *sigh* I am really tired of the perception that games are for children ONLY and so we cannot go anywhere near the subject in an open and mature mannger. I play M rated games because I am an adult and expect a certain level of maturity from those M rated gamed, and I do not simply refer to the level of gore or violence. I am fully prepared for those elements to be prevalent in wartime games like the Call of Duty series (just an example folks, not bashing CoD here), but if I'm playing an immersive and mature RPG game, I fully expect for sexuality to be present and treated in a mature manner, just like violence.

And while I can appreciate that some may view the way The Witcher 2 approached and handled that subject as too much... well, actually, I'm trying but am not fully comprehending it. At every opportunity that the subject came up you were given a choice to either pursue it further or not (well, I suppose aside from the very opening scene at camp and that never went anywhere and was rather brief). So the aspect is there and available for those who wish to pursue the matter and experience another mature aspect of the game, but it's not in your face either. And I found the elven ruins bath scene to be SO beautiful and very well done, in that mature and no apologies manner... Man, whenever I think about it, I always feel that little heart tug. *tears* And the way the subject was approached and presented in The Witcher 2 added yet another level of realism to the whole game experience, because it was merely another aspect which was suitable for that time period - I mean the game developers dealt with so many aspects in the game and presented them to us in that insensitive way (murder, rape, tyranny, opression, racism, etc.), but it only added to the experience as a whole, to the immersion, it made playing the game realistic and believable and ultimately made for a fantastic ride.

Look, I am not advocating callous porn be inserted in the game, especially not merely for porn's sake. After all, if I want to experience porn, I have other, more explicit options available to me. What I am saying is that video game companies (especially the North American ones) should not be affraid to approach the matter of sexuality, should quit handling it delicately through rubber gloves and, in a mature game should approach it in the same open and mature manner as some of the other aspects of the game. After all, DA:O dealt with some rather dark and pretty grim elements (being a Grey Warden and everything that entails, darkspawn and how they reproduce, etc.), so I really don't understand why the child-proof restriction still remains on this one aspect, the last pillar standing in the way for video games to be taken in a serious manner, to be perceived and experienced as another medium capable of presenting and conveying a whole range of themes, from comical to serious and mature and everything in between.

I'm sorry if some may not agree. I suppose my European upbringing is shining through in my perceptions.

Perhaps the answer would be to have an option in the actual game options where we could set whether the game faded to black during those sexual encounters or actually presented the scene in a mature and beautiful manner akin to that in Mass Effect for those that wish for that kind of an experience?

Edit: Because I apparently can't spell had to fix some typos.

Modifié par AloraKast, 10 août 2011 - 01:52 .


#74
esper

esper
  • Members
  • 4 193 messages

AloraKast wrote...

You know, what I would REALLY love to see is for Bioware to come out of the protective shell they erected after the whole "Fox News scandal", to stop apologizing, to stop treating this subject so delicately as if affraid any step forward will cause the whole thing to blow up in their faces. It's getting rather tiring to have to experience this aspect of the game with the child-proof protective rubber gloves... with the end result being rather awkward, especially when trying to form bonds with your companions (or LI in this case).

IMO, Mass Effect handled this perfectly; the scene was beautiful, sensual, magical, you really got to experience that connection with your LI in a sincere and intense way (of course with the "night before the final showdown" aspect only adding to the intense focus on that one moment, the here and now and thus experiencing it even more powerfully). The camera angles, the lighting, the music, the atmosphere all came together splendidly to create a rather intense and magical moment in the game... and it wasn't merely about showing a side of a boob, because merely showing that without all those other elements could not possibly evoke those kinds of feelings in me, the player. But I absolutely loved how the developers weren't affraid to tackle that particular can of worms in a mature manner, with no apologies and uninhibited creative vision were able to create something trully superb. All those elements came together to create a beautifully poignant symphony and I truly believe and hope that Bioware will be allowed to strive towards that once again.

You know, the scenes in DA:O were actually closer to what I experienced in Mass Effect; the camera angles, the camp atmosphere and of course that brilliant and touching music. And there was something about the camp atmosphere, the fire, being on the road or in the woods or wherever we found ourselves... I guess out there surrounded by nature in the middle of the night with the moon riding the night sky. Again, the atmosphere was wonderful and the experience was beautiful, although it was already tempered by the inhibitions imposed by Bioware's past experience.

As for DA2... well, I didn't really get much of that beautiful, magical bonding. It was more along the lines of awkward or feeling not much of anything. Heck, my dialogue with Fenris just before the final confrontation and his possessive kiss did way more to curl my toes than my nocturnal activites with him as presented. Even the camera movements came across as more stiff in capturing the whole make out scene just before fading to black. I could really sense the infelxible boundaries imposed on this aspect in DA2.

As for all those age old arguments against dealing with sexuality in an open and mature mannger in a game... *sigh* I am really tired of the perception that games are for children ONLY and so we cannot go anywhere near the subject in an open and mature mannger. I play M rated games because I am an adult and expect a certain level of maturity from those M rated gamed, and I do not simply refer to the level of gore or violence. I am fully prepared for those elements to be prevalent in wartime games like the Call of Duty series (just an example folks, not bashing CoD here), but if I'm playing an immersive and mature RPG game, I fully expect for sexuality to be present and treated in a mature manner, just like violence.

And while I can appreciate that some may view the way The Witcher 2 approached and handled that subject as too much... well, actually, I'm trying but am not fully comprehending it. At every opportunity that the subject came up you were given a choice to either pursue it further or not (well, I suppose aside from the very opening scene at camp and that never went anywhere and was rather brief). So the aspect is there and available for those who wish to pursue the matter and experience another mature aspect of the game, but it's not in your face either. And I found the elven ruins bath scene to be SO beautiful and very well done, in that mature and no apologies manner... Man, whenever I think about it, I always feel that little heart tug. *tears* And the way the subject was approached and presented in The Witcher 2 added yet another level of realism to the whole game experience, because it was merely another aspect which was suitable for that time period - I mean the game developers dealt with so many aspects in the game and presented them to us in that insensitive way (murder, rape, tyranny, opression, racism, etc.), but it only added to the experience as a whole, to the immersion, it made playing the game realistic and believable and ultimately made for a fantastic ride.

Look, I am not advocating callous porn be inserted in the game, especially not merely for porn's sake. After all, if I want to experience porn, I have other, more explicit options available to me. What I am saying is that video game companies (especially the North American ones) should not be affraid to approach the matter of sexuality, should quit handling it delicately through rubber gloves and, in a mature game should approach it in the same open and mature manner as some of the other aspects of the game. After all, DA:O dealt with some rather dark and pretty grim elements (being a Grey Warden and everything that entails, darkspawn and how they reproduce, etc.), so I really don't understand why the child-proof restriction still remains on this one aspect, the last pillar standing in the way for video games to be taken in a serious manner, to be perceived and experienced as another medium capable of presenting and conveying a whole range of themes, from comical to serious and mature and everything in between.

I'm sorry if some may not agree. I suppose my European upbringing is shining through in my perceptions.

Perhaps the answer would be to have an option in the actual game options where we could set whether the game faded to black during those sexual encounters or actually presented the scene in a mature and beautiful manner akin to that in Mass Effect for those that wish for that kind of an experience?

Edit: Because I apparently can't spell had to fix some typos.


I don't play the witcher and don't think I ever will, but I googled the withcer 2 and I agree that the scene you mention is very well done, but then again I am european as well so I don't think that sex is worse than violence. I also prefer me1 out of all the bioware scenes, but I wastely prefer da2 over dao in that regard, because in Da2 they cut before they take the close off so I sort of see the scenes as forplay, but in dao it seems to me that they are having sex with underwear on. The worst being Morrigan that actually take a bra on for that specific act.
So I guess my prefrence is individualized scenes, but bioware is cutting to black a little too soon. 
And yes - there is something wrong when some of the kissing scenes are more sensual and hotter than the scene for the act itself. 

#75
wildannie

wildannie
  • Members
  • 2 223 messages
I prefer the DA2 scenes to DAO but I think some tastefully implied nudity before a fade to black would have improved them. I would also like to see the return of a 'kiss' option which I thought was a nice touch.